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Nate74
06-03-2009, 1:23 PM
The search function let me down on this one so here goes...

To legally transport my pistol(s) in my GMC Acadia SUV, since there is no "truck" would the pistols have to be in a locked container like a hard case etc.? Does each pistol need it's own case or could a large toolbox with a pad lock on it suffice?

Thanks.

aermotor
06-03-2009, 1:24 PM
I would keep pistols in a locked box or similar and be out of reach although not required by law. A toolbox should be nice and discreet.

Edited.

Nate74
06-03-2009, 1:27 PM
OK thanks. Then do I take the toolbox into the range with me? Or can I put the pistols in my range bag in the parking lot? I fear I know the answer...

paul0660
06-03-2009, 1:31 PM
Technically, they have to be in the box from the lot to the range. A lockable gun rug is the way to go. Also, when in the locked container in the SUV, where the locked container has to be is not specified in the statute. All that IS specified is that a trunk IS a locked container, and the glovebox and "utility container" aren't.

E Pluribus Unum
06-03-2009, 1:33 PM
Pistols should be in a locked box or similar and be out of reach in the very back. Large toolbox should be nice and discreet.

Technically, they have to be in the box from the lot to the range. .

OMG... where do you people get this?

Handguns do not have to be in a locked case at all times. They must be locked only when:

a) Within 1000 feet of a school

b) When concealed


Even then, there is NO requirement for it to be in the trunk or out of the driver's reach.

As long as you are not within 1000 feet of a school one can have his handgun in the front seat with a loaded magazine right next to it.

When I carry the handgun in my truck, I have a trigger lock with the key inserted and a loaded magazine right next to the gun. If SHTF, the gun is available and loaded in under 5 seconds; perfectly legal.

Rivers
06-03-2009, 1:37 PM
One often overlooked point when traveling is that in the event of an collision, whatever isn't lashed down will continue on like a clumsy missile towards the front seats. If you've removed the mid-row seats, tie the toolbox or hard case down to the floorboard.

And EPU is correct. Otherwise, how would unloaded open carry be legal?

E Pluribus Unum
06-03-2009, 1:38 PM
One often overlooked point when traveling is that in the event of an collision, whatever isn't lashed down will continue on like a clumsy missile towards the front seats. If you've removed the mid-row seats, tie the toolbox or hard case down to the floorboard.

One more reason to have the gun in the front seat right next to you!

paul0660
06-03-2009, 1:40 PM
That is right, if unconcealed, you can carry it from the lot to the range and have it in the car. I was responding to Nate's question about putting it in his unlocked range bag.

Nate74
06-03-2009, 1:44 PM
Geez, I can just see the cops in Torrance as I'm face down on a sidewalk as I explain "no no, it isn't concealed so it's OK."

So would a locking bag of some sort serve my purpose both in my SUV and from my SUV into the range?

Thanks again guys!

paul0660
06-03-2009, 1:47 PM
Sure, a gun rug:

http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/nra-slanted-pistol-case.aspx?a=538786

You can lock it with a small padlock, and it meets the statute.

I agree about what you said about open carry. I will let someone else do that.

Nate74
06-03-2009, 1:50 PM
thanks for the link Paul. I imagine LEOs in the more rural areas might be OK with a pistol sitting on a front seat but where I live, I just can't see it.

E Pluribus Unum
06-03-2009, 1:51 PM
Geez, I can just see the cops in Torrance as I'm face down on a sidewalk as I explain "no no, it isn't concealed so it's OK."

thanks for the link Paul. I imagine LEOs in the more rural areas might be OK with a pistol sitting on a front seat but where I live, I just can't see it.

I've been pulled over many times with an unlocked firearm on the front seat next to me; never been harassed. Its all about location and appearance. Gang bangers are not going to have their Glocks on the seat with the slide locked back.

Even then, just get a combination style trigger lock. Leave the combo put into the unit, if you need the gun the lock comes right off, if you get pulled over, clear the combo with a flick of the finger and you're good.

lorax3
06-03-2009, 1:57 PM
You can carry a pistol one of two ways.

1. Concealed as defined in 12025
12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

2. Non-Concealed
As you are not in violation of 12025 you can carry it non-concealed. If you knowingly drive within 1000 feet of a school zone you are in violation of PC 626.9

IMO, your best bet is to throw it into a bag that can be locked. Soft bag, hard bag, doesnt matter. You can even wrap a cable lock around the case that comes with many new handguns.

(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

-lorax

tiki
06-03-2009, 1:59 PM
When I go to the range, I usually carry several firearms. For $20, I picked up a crappy black plastic footlocker thing from Lowe's. I put my ammo, guns, tools, rags, etc. in the locker. I keep it in the back because of its size; there is nothing in the statute about where it has to be. This is more of a convenience thing for me so I don't have to lock all of them up seperately.
I live less than 1000 feet from a school, more like 500, so thats why I use the box.
For day to day driving, I have a small lock box made out of metal that loops a cable around my front seat to prevent theft. I wedge it between my seat and my center console of my SUV. If I want, I can lay it on the seal. The container is made small enough to hold one firearm with a loaded magazine out of the magwell laying next to it. They come in combination and key variations. Well worth the money. http://www.center-of-mass.com/

aermotor
06-03-2009, 2:00 PM
OMG... where do you people get this?

Handguns do not have to be in a locked case at all times. They must be locked only when:

a) Within 1000 feet of a school

b) When concealed


Even then, there is NO requirement for it to be in the trunk or out of the driver's reach.

As long as you are not within 1000 feet of a school one can have his handgun in the front seat with a loaded magazine right next to it.

When I carry the handgun in my truck, I have a trigger lock with the key inserted and a loaded magazine right next to the gun. If SHTF, the gun is available and loaded in under 5 seconds; perfectly legal.


Chill the F out, this is a forum, people give their opinions here. We aren't lawyers. We aren't just quoting laws. We're giving experience. This is what I do. Calm down. Unclench.

You can deal with the cops in your own way.

Nate74
06-03-2009, 2:03 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Yawiu9y1v5M/R09AICdCzXI/AAAAAAAABR8/Ti3Okegmfoc/s320/Rodney-King.jpg
Can't we all just get along?

aermotor
06-03-2009, 2:06 PM
RODNEY!

E Pluribus Unum
06-03-2009, 2:09 PM
Chill the F out, this is a forum, people give their opinions here. We aren't lawyers. We aren't just quoting laws. We're giving experience. This is what I do. Calm down. Unclench.

You can deal with the cops in your own way.

I am not the one losing control. You are not a lawyer, which is precisely why you should be cautious of your statements. Gun laws are NOT a matter of "opinion" but a matter of LAW. When you advise people incorrectly, you further ignorance. You may advise people with personal opinion by stating something like this:

"You legally don't have to transport it in a locked case, but I would advise it", but you did not state that. You stated that they had to be transported in locked cases.

What if that person is driving down the road and he needed his gun to defend himself but he had to go to his trunk, unlock it, load it and by that time the bad guy shot him? The only reason he was carrying it like that is because someone on Calguns told him that is what the law required.

Now then, if you inform him of what the LAW says, but advise him to be more cautious, he has the knowledge to decide for himself if he wants to play it safe, or risk a little harassment by law enforcement for the sake of heightened protection.

You owe it to other posters to give them the whole story; what is or is not required by law, followed by your personal opinion. You cannot simply state your personal opinion as law.

aermotor
06-03-2009, 2:16 PM
I stated my opinion on what I would do, sorry I didn't say "here's what I do" — and I didn't say "well the law says..." I've edited my post.

If someone is going to get shot for no reason so be it. If you shoot an undercover cop coming at you with a gun, that can't be good. I don't feel I need to have a gun on me at every moment to feel safe. Some people act like the world is ending.

You owe it to new people here not to troll them away from the forums, there are better ways to communicate someone's wrongnesses.

Decoligny
06-03-2009, 2:29 PM
Chill the F out, this is a forum, people give their opinions here. We aren't lawyers. We aren't just quoting laws. We're giving experience. This is what I do. Calm down. Unclench.

You can deal with the cops in your own way.

The OPs question was: To legally transport my pistol(s) in my GMC Acadia SUV, since there is no "truck" would the pistols have to be in a locked container like a hard case etc.?

This isn't asking for opinions, this is asking for a definitive answer.

This forum isn't about spreading our opinions, it is about forwarding the 2nd Amendment, and providing people with the TRUTH about what is LEGAL.

aermotor
06-03-2009, 2:35 PM
Yes understood.

E Pluribus Unum
06-03-2009, 3:02 PM
I stated my opinion on what I would do, sorry I didn't say "here's what I do" and I didn't say "well the law says..." I've edited my post.

That is all that can be expected and it is the reason I posted.


If someone is going to get shot for no reason so be it. If you shoot an undercover cop coming at you with a gun, that can't be good.

What? Where did this come from? I never said one needed to shoot an undercover cop. I am saying if one witnesses a serious crime or his life is threatened by the criminal element.


I don't feel I need to have a gun on me at every moment to feel safe. Some people act like the world is ending.

That is your decision; do not impose that decision on others. Inform them that what you state is only your opinion of how they should be transported, not a requirement by law. You have edited your post to reflect that and it is appreciated.


You owe it to new people here not to troll them away from the forums, there are better ways to communicate someone's wrongnesses.

If you thought I was trolling, that was not my intention. I was not even disrespectful. I assure you that if that were my intention, I am much better at it; just ask some of the users here. ;) If you felt I disrespected you I apologize. My OMG statement was more directed at both of you. One person mis-stating facts is one thing, two is another. If it were just you I would not have used that vernacular.

You have to understand that I have been involved on this board since around 2003. We discussed the points of the legality of open carry and the transport of firearms very extensively. I have personally fought with the CHP over their definition of a "loaded" weapon and won. I am very active in the attempted education of law enforcement and citizens. When I see someone spreading misinformation, sometimes I take it personally. If I was harsh, I apologize; it was not my intent, I only wanted to correct the error.

paul0660
06-03-2009, 3:37 PM
I've been pulled over many times with an unlocked firearm on the front seat next to me

If true, that would be a thread with a couple hundred posts, I hope. I haven't been pulled over in a LOOOOONG time (knocking on wood here, LOUDLY). How about a half dozen examples of how to OC, get pulled over, and not get harrassed? If you have an ex-Leo or get out of jail card it doesn't count.

Glock22Fan
06-03-2009, 3:37 PM
There's a saying that teaching is the art of telling gradually decreasing falsehoods. I, as an ex-university graduate level teacher voted "Best Lecturer in the department", totally concur.

You tell the simplest possible explanation of the facts first, then gradually include the exceptions as the student understands well enough to continue. You don't explain Einstein's theory of time-warping to a first grader learning how to read a clock.

Someone who seems new at carrying guns just wants to know how to be safe and within the law. He or she doesn't need an explanation of UOC at that point (unless he specifically asks). If he does, then why doesn't he also need an explanation of CCW permits, California Assault Weapon law, forbidden ammo etc. etc. etc. just so he knows what's legal, and what's not, in those areas.

What we need is a new acronym to keep the UOC'ers happy, I suggest (with tongue in cheek):
TITWTBIWKYOOTFN. "This isn't the whole truth, but it will keep you out of trouble for now."

Do you guys really want a bunch of newbies, with inadequate understanding of the law, driving around with exposed guns saying, "Well, so and so on the forum said it was OK!" Will you pay their legal expenses?

Librarian
06-03-2009, 3:50 PM
There's a saying that teaching is the art of telling gradually decreasing falsehoods. I, as an ex-university graduate level teacher voted "Best Lecturer in the department", totally concur.

You tell the simplest possible explanation of the facts first, then gradually include the exceptions as the student understands well enough to continue. You don't explain Einstein's theory of time-warping to a first grader learning how to read a clock.
...

TITWTBIWKYOOTFN. "This isn't the whole truth, but it will keep you out of trouble for now."



In the more general case, that's where I was trying to go with the "Use of stickies (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=187439)" thread - simple answers for simple questions, and links to discussion threads for followups.

The goal is KYOOTFN!

KCM222
06-03-2009, 3:56 PM
Do you guys really want a bunch of newbies, with inadequate understanding of the law, driving around with exposed guns saying, "Well, so and so on the forum said it was OK!" Will you pay their legal expenses?

Rhetorical question, but no.

Personally, with all the exciting work the CGF, NRA, and others are doing right now I'm keeping my head down (with the exception of taking my very evil rifle to the range as often as I can afford the time).

I'm crossing my fingers that we are a few (relatively) short legal battles away from not having to fight this sort of fight.

That being said, others may have a much more pressing need to be armed than I currently do.

ETA:
The goal is KYOOTFN!

Remember, "coyot[e] fin" :D

Let's keep it.

tombinghamthegreat
06-03-2009, 3:58 PM
Pretty much as stated you can either unloaded open carry a handgun or you can have it in a locked container(it can be anything as long as its not a glove box). That is a very common question, why we have threads that address this issue.

As a side note since i am assuming you are not as familiar with the annoy CA laws and there is a lot of FUD spread, it is legal to have loaded mags right next to the gun and ammo in same container since it does not violate PC12031.....

Glock22Fan
06-03-2009, 4:19 PM
In the more general case, that's where I was trying to go with the "Use of stickies (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=187439)" thread - simple answers for simple questions, and links to discussion threads for followups.

The goal is KYOOTFN!


I have no problem with that whatsoever.

bigtoe416
06-03-2009, 5:04 PM
If we're unlocking a container which has a handgun in it in a public place, then aren't we all momentarily violating the concealed firearms law? As soon as the lock is open we are now in possession of a concealed weapon. It would seem to me the only way to not violate the law would be to have a transparent container. Thoughts?

paul0660
06-03-2009, 5:09 PM
Toe, yes, but hopefully you aren't unlocking it in the food court but at the range or a gun shop at which the owner implicitly has granted you the right to conceal carry for half a second.......thanks for highlighting the absurdity of the system!:chris: ARRRGGGH

Glock22Fan
06-03-2009, 5:26 PM
If we're unlocking a container which has a handgun in it in a public place, then aren't we all momentarily violating the concealed firearms law? As soon as the lock is open we are now in possession of a concealed weapon. It would seem to me the only way to not violate the law would be to have a transparent container. Thoughts?

I've brought this up on several occasions. Certain people scream FUD whenever I so do.

Librarian
06-03-2009, 5:46 PM
If we're unlocking a container which has a handgun in it in a public place, then aren't we all momentarily violating the concealed firearms law? As soon as the lock is open we are now in possession of a concealed weapon. It would seem to me the only way to not violate the law would be to have a transparent container. Thoughts?

Unlocking is part of a process, including 'opening the case', at which point the handgun is no longer concealed.

As bizarre as CA laws are, if 12026.1 and .2 describe a condition of transport which avoids prosecution under 12025, I cannot credit that the second or so between closing and locking or between unlocking and opening would generate a supportable charge of violating 12025.

Zeno's paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes#Achilles_and_the_tortoise) fails when applied to actual, physical existence.