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View Full Version : Fiocchi brass = suspect? GFL headstamps & pics


Turbinator
04-23-2005, 7:35 PM
Hi all,

Last weekend I hit up the range with a couple of buddies. I was shooting my own mixed headstamp reloads, and another guy was shooting some factory Fiocchi with GFL headstamps, 9mm ammo. As I'm a reloader, I always welcome a chance to scrounge more once-fired known quality brass, so I gleefully snapped up all of his spent cases as they fell to the ground.

This weekend, I put the cases into the tumbler and did my usual visual inspection of each case when they were done being cleaned. Out of a batch of maybe 75 pieces of brass, I found these:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/976052/IMG_9687b.jpg

Another view showing headstamps:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/976052/IMG_9690b.jpg

Needless to say, I was shocked to find FACTORY never fired brass with this problem. The cases, in case you have not seen this before, are basically SPLIT right down the side.

I have seen this before in work-hardened brass, brass that has been reloaded several times or resized too many times. I have also seen this happen with hot loads, as the pressures tend to stress the brass more.. but never have I seen this with never-fired factory ammo.

I'm not going to make any wild conclusions about the quality of Fiocchi - it's got a good reputation and many shooters use it without any problems - but I know what I see, and what I see I don't like.

Comments?

Turby

delloro
04-24-2005, 9:13 AM
send it to Fiocchi

04-24-2005, 11:49 AM
One question before you fault the ammo:
Were all the cases fired from the same gun?

In my experience, I've had new, nickel-plated brass cases split their sides (some almost to the rim) on their first firing much like the ones in the pictures. I bought a fairly big lot of Remington .44 mag brass (nickel) from Dillon Precision a few years back, that did this in three different guns, in several different loads.

I've also had more failures (case splits) than I felt comfortable with from an absolutely huge lot of new, 10mm nickel brass (Winchester). Again, in two different guns, the cases were splitting at about a 3% rate - some severely.
From what I've heard, nickel cases are more apt to do this, but I'm suspect of this particular "lot" that I bought (on eBay) now because of the high failure rate. Needless to say, I don't use them anymore. These were definitely virgin, unprimed cases, but they certainly cause me worry, especially since these were fairly tame loads, low-pressure loads. (The .44s were admittedly sort of hot).

OTOH, I bought a butt-load of Norinco 9mm back in the pre-Klinton days of semi-freedom that lasted several reloadings without a single sign of trouble. In fact, I still have some in my cache of brass that would probably go another round or two. However, 9mm is so cheap that I don't even bother loading it anymore. There's no point, IMO.

kalibear
04-24-2005, 1:04 PM
Was your buddy shooting it out of a .40 Glock? http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

Turbinator
04-24-2005, 7:07 PM
Thanks guys for the responses. The gun firing the ammo was the same for all of the Fiocchi rounds. It was an FN Browning HiPower, brand new out of the box.

As the ammo wasn't mine, I don't really care to send it to Fiocchi, although I could, if I wanted to. I was simply picking up the free brass.

I've not had a chronic problem with other brands of brass, so finding 3 split cases out of a batch of new first-fired brass was quite a surprise.

And no, they weren't fired out of a .40S&W Glock!!

Turby

ivanimal
04-25-2005, 12:28 AM
I would think this is a case of poorly mixed brass or possibly misloaded ammo. It happens. The science that puts Zinc in Copper or vice versa is one that can have problems I have had brass last for 3 reloadings and others, like my winchester 30-30 brass go as many as 7 loadings. I have seen splits in many case necks on 223 ammo after only a few firings. My 30-06 loadings are all over the board for case life. The military brass does the best, but I am careful to not load to max on any milspec brass. There have been recalls on factory loaded ammo. Mostly you see recalls on powder. I will say that I have never seen cases split like that from a handgun. I would definitely tell Fiocchi about it. That is not right. The ammo used could have been bad. Or as I said maybe its just bad brass.

I am sure they want to know.

Fiocchi Ammunition USA
6930 Fremont Road, Ozark, MO 65721
Phone: 417-725-4118, Fax: 417-725-1039

Ratters
04-25-2005, 7:03 PM
Man, I've probably gone through about 7k rounds of Fiocchi and never noticed a split case. About 2k of that was through a Glock 23. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Turbinator
04-30-2005, 8:36 AM
Ok folks, just saw my friend who owns the lot of Fiocchi ammo. Told him about the split cases. He is interested in pursuing it further with the mfg, so I'm going to give him the brass and the box we kept from that day's session. It may be awhile before I have another update, but I'll let you know what happens when I hear something.

Turby

Wildkow
04-05-2010, 5:47 PM
Ok folks, just saw my friend who owns the lot of Fiocchi ammo. Told him about the split cases. He is interested in pursuing it further with the mfg, so I'm going to give him the brass and the box we kept from that day's session. It may be awhile before I have another update, but I'll let you know what happens when I hear something.

Turby

Grrrrrr, and the final outcome was? :mad: Just asking because I picked up 1000 pieces of .40 brass and 20-30% was stamped G.F.L.

Turbinator if you see this and can remember a short note or anything would be appreciated.

jmf_tracy
04-05-2010, 5:52 PM
holy necro thread batman!

Turo
04-05-2010, 6:00 PM
Really? FIVE years old?

Peter W Bush
04-05-2010, 6:06 PM
WOW this might be a record????

Turbinator
04-06-2010, 6:22 AM
Grrrrrr, and the final outcome was? :mad: Just asking because I picked up 1000 pieces of .40 brass and 20-30% was stamped G.F.L.

Turbinator if you see this and can remember a short note or anything would be appreciated.

I do remember this. Amazing how old this thread is :)

I gave the brass to my friend who was shooting Fiocchi. Unfortunately, he was so lazy, he didn't do anything about it. I really think he should have returned the brass, seeing damage like this on factory ammo is just unacceptable. I've long since filed the photos away, but I guess I could dig them back up and repost them.

My advice since you're looking for closure - visually inspect each piece of brass, resize, then case gauge. If they pass all of this - then you should be good to go - but as a disclaimer, you'll be responsible for your own safety, ultimately. :)

Good luck,
Turby