PDA

View Full Version : Is this right?


Charliegone
07-12-2005, 9:29 PM
Brother Calls LAPD Fatal Shootings 'Cruel'
By RYAN PEARSON
Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES - A war of words is following a standoff and shootout with police that left a 19-month-old girl and her gun-wielding father dead. The man's brother on Tuesday called officers' actions "cruel" and the police chief hinted at Jose Pena's family troubles.
"It's been cruel what's happened to my brother," German Pena told reporters in South Los Angeles. Pena described his brother as ill and criticized officers - one of whom was shot by Pena - for abruptly storming an office in an effort to end Sunday's nearly three-hour standoff.

"They didn't have any patience, none at all, knowing that my niece was with him, that he was a father," Pena said. "They should have acted with more patience."

Autopsies were completed Tuesday on Jose Raul Lemus Pena, 34, and his daughter, Suzie Marie Pena, born in December 2003, the coroner's office said. Chief coroner's investigator Craig Harvey said the Police Department requested that results not be released. Police declined immediate comment.

Police Chief William Bratton said Pena was to blame for his daughter's death regardless of the finding, calling him "an individual who held his own daughter out as a human shield."

"This father was not a father of the year as the family is now attempting to portray him," Bratton said.

The Los Angeles Times reported that Pena had been served with a temporary restraining order on Saturday involving allegations of child molestation. Spokespersons for the police and Superior Court said they could find no records of such an order.

Bratton declined comment on the possible order, saying only, "There are issues within that family that we believe may have precipitated the father's actions."

One officer was wounded in the shoulder during the third and final exchange of gunfire between police and Pena. The officer, Daniel Sanchez, 39, was released from a hospital Monday and was recovering at home, police spokesman Jason Lee said.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa called for patience during investigations into the shooting.

"This was a tragic situation," he said in an appearance on KTLA-TV. "We are going to get to the bottom of it, very clearly. But on preliminary observation as a layman I tell you I saw officers trying to do everything they could to avoid a confrontation. ... I ask people to have patience until we get to the bottom of it."


As for the guy, he was f-d up yes, but did the police have to shoot the little girl? WTF is wrong with them, shooting this little girl. Couldn't have they just taken the guy out like how they took out that guy at the Mexican embassy? Since this is in Watts I guess...

Boondocksaint
07-12-2005, 9:36 PM
It's tough to criticize cops man. It's easy to Monday-morning-quarterback the whole situation, but you weren't there.

For all we know, the guy had the kid in his arm while shooting at the cops. From what I read, it's ENTIRELY the dad's fault.

C.G.
07-12-2005, 9:56 PM
Originally posted by Charliegone:
Brother Calls LAPD Fatal Shootings 'Cruel'
By RYAN PEARSON
Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES - A war of words is following a standoff and shootout with police that left a 19-month-old girl and her gun-wielding father dead. The man's brother on Tuesday called officers' actions "cruel" and the police chief hinted at Jose Pena's family troubles.
"It's been cruel what's happened to my brother," German Pena told reporters in South Los Angeles. Pena described his brother as ill and criticized officers - one of whom was shot by Pena - for abruptly storming an office in an effort to end Sunday's nearly three-hour standoff.

"They didn't have any patience, none at all, knowing that my niece was with him, that he was a father," Pena said. "They should have acted with more patience."

Autopsies were completed Tuesday on Jose Raul Lemus Pena, 34, and his daughter, Suzie Marie Pena, born in December 2003, the coroner's office said. Chief coroner's investigator Craig Harvey said the Police Department requested that results not be released. Police declined immediate comment.

Police Chief William Bratton said Pena was to blame for his daughter's death regardless of the finding, calling him "an individual who held his own daughter out as a human shield."

"This father was not a father of the year as the family is now attempting to portray him," Bratton said.

The Los Angeles Times reported that Pena had been served with a temporary restraining order on Saturday involving allegations of child molestation. Spokespersons for the police and Superior Court said they could find no records of such an order.

Bratton declined comment on the possible order, saying only, "There are issues within that family that we believe may have precipitated the father's actions."

One officer was wounded in the shoulder during the third and final exchange of gunfire between police and Pena. The officer, Daniel Sanchez, 39, was released from a hospital Monday and was recovering at home, police spokesman Jason Lee said.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa called for patience during investigations into the shooting.

"This was a tragic situation," he said in an appearance on KTLA-TV. "We are going to get to the bottom of it, very clearly. But on preliminary observation as a layman I tell you I saw officers trying to do everything they could to avoid a confrontation. ... I ask people to have patience until we get to the bottom of it."


As for the guy, he was f-d up yes, but did the police have to shoot the little girl? WTF is wrong with them, shooting this little girl. Couldn't have they just taken the guy out like how they took out that guy at the Mexican embassy? Since this is in Watts I guess...

If one can believe the newsies, the guy was shooting at people prior to the police showing up (which was the reason for the police showing up). Unfortunately, the little girl was an innocent by-stander paying for her father's mistakes, one of them being that he used her as a shield. If someone shot at me, even with a child in arms, I am relatively sure I would shoot back. Regardless, wonder how many more would have died if the police did not shoot?

Charliegone
07-13-2005, 6:19 PM
Yes I know, but like I said before (I think) they are the police, they have to minimize the lost of life if they can. They could've just taken the guy out without killing the little girl, but like you guys said sometimes it is just impossible http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Oh well.

Rascal
07-13-2005, 6:52 PM
SWAT was there. You mean to tell me that they couldn't take him out without harming the girl?
They had been trying to talk to this guy for 2 hours. This didn't have to happen. It was a major clusterfu@k. They should have let the pro shooters take him out, not a bunch of regular cops, who more than likely don't have the skills to do precision shooting. Look what happened to that guy in the SUV. Over a hunderd shots fired and he still lived.

jnojr
07-14-2005, 9:53 AM
Uhh, this guy was shooting at police! He tried to kill his 16- or 17-year-old niece or whatever she is! How much more "patience" should have been shown?

WTF is wrong with you people? Why the need to jump all over the police for making decisions you've never dreamed of having to make in your life? "Oh, gee, why not just shoot him in the leg?" http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

One day you might get what you want. You might be the current victim of a violent criminal, and the police are "holding back", showing "patience" and "understanding" while "respecting the rights" of your assailant.

Bruce
07-14-2005, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Rascal:
SWAT was there. You mean to tell me that they couldn't take him out without harming the girl?
They had been trying to talk to this guy for 2 hours. This didn't have to happen. It was a major clusterfu@k. They should have let the pro shooters take him out, not a bunch of regular cops, who more than likely don't have the skills to do precision shooting. Look what happened to that guy in the SUV. Over a hunderd shots fired and he still lived.

It was a SWAT entry team that shot the guy with the kid. The local channels have replayed their tapes and what can be clearly heard is a flash-bang followed by full auto fire.(Dynamic entry is the term IIRC) The "grunts" don't carry MP-5's or diversion devices.
The SUV thing was a bunch of street deputies from the L.A. Sheriff's.

delloro
07-14-2005, 5:18 PM
f*ck bratton, he's an us-v-them elitist POS.

she was shot by a cop.

why did the cop shoot her? why was the cop shooting at him? the father was holed up. let him stay there and rot.

the a-hole mentality that leads to tactical flash-bang ops like that are little reminders of Waco and Ruby Ridge and the fact that you put a bunch of commando-types and a bunch of guns together with an elitist, disarm-the-public attitude and what you get are unnecessarily dead women and children

sure, the father was most likely a complete turd. but that doesn't mean the cops *have* to take him out at the risk of the child.

maybe the facts will totally vindicate the cops, or maybe they will bear out my suspicions that the cops didn't have to put the girl, the father, or themselves in that position.

bwiese
07-14-2005, 6:14 PM
Yet another time where cops made the situation worse.

Poor millionaire cop's mind was probably too concerned where he was gonna eventually move on his nice fat cost-of-living-indexed, 90+% peak salary, retire-at-50ish pension.

I could be wrong but initial reports are that the child was killed from cop's pistol fire (not a pistol round from a carbine - but we'll see how the info evolves).

Much better to have a 223 carbine w/long sight radius or Aimpoint sight for snap shots, you're in a situation where an inch can make a huge difference.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

imported_edbon9
07-14-2005, 7:09 PM
from the chronicle..

"....died of a single gunshot wound fired by a rifle from a police officer, authorities confirmed Wednesday. ....The girl died from a single gunshot wound to the head, and her father died of multiple gunshot wounds, the reports said."

chronicle story (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/13/state/n161421D81.DTL)

Inoxmark
07-14-2005, 9:23 PM
If the police waited too long and the guy killed his girl and himself (which I think would have been a likely outcome of prolonged confrontation with this crazy nut), the cry would have been why the police did nothing and let him do it. Unfortunately this was one of the situations when you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
The attack should have been handled much better though, with more precision.