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bwiese
03-22-2005, 9:55 AM
Found this in THR.

All right! Way to go, Ford.

If some gun co's did something similar to this - to PDs in states w/freaky gun laws - we might have a bit of forward progress!

I'm laughing at the PDs who are gonna try to replace a heavy RWD car like the Crown Vic with a light FWD car like the new Impala. Pricing? not much different - durability? prob 50% less.

Bill Wiese
San Jose


http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050322033609990001

----------------------------------------------
MANY POLICE DEPARTMENTS DROP OUT OF FORD SUIT

Safety of Popular Cruiser Is Focus of Complaints

By DON BABWIN, AP

CHICAGO (March 22) - Dozens of police departments in Illinois who joined a lawsuit alleging that a popular police cruiser is unsafe have dropped out because they said Ford Motor Co. threatened to stop selling them the cars.

Ford's Crown Victorias have been the focus of legal battles since 2002, when some cities and towns began alleging in lawsuits that the police cruisers exploded easily in rear-end collisions.

Officials said switching from the Crown Victoria Interceptor to another vehicle would cost them tens of thousands of dollars, and the specially built police cruiser is still favored by many departments.

"I think it's coercion by Ford," said Trisha Murphy, a plaintiffs' attorney involved in the lawsuit.

Jim Feeney, an attorney for Ford, said approximately 120 police agencies in the state have dropped out of the lawsuit and more are planning to. He said the automaker just wants the departments to decide if they really want to sue.

"The bottom line is either they are serious about the lawsuit and the claims in the lawsuit or they're not," he said. "If you think the vehicle is unsafe - we don't - but if you do, don't expect us to supply you vehicles."

The Crown Victorias have been the focus of legal battles since 2002, when municipalities around the country began alleging in lawsuits that the vehicles explode too easily in rear collisions.

Since 1983, at least 15 police officers nationwide have died in fiery crashes after their cruisers were hit from behind.

In the first class-action lawsuit over the Crown Victoria to go to trial, a jury in St. Clair County in Illinois ruled in October that the cars were safe, although an appeal of the ruling is likely. A judge still must decide if the automaker violated state consumer fraud laws.

Ford took its no-sale position with the police departments in 2003 when the lawsuit became class action, Feeney said. "Now it's two years later and they're looking to replace their fleets and all of a sudden they're becoming aware of the fact they can't buy any cars," he said.

The Rolling Meadows Police Department is one of the departments that has dropped out of the lawsuit.

Deputy Police Chief Dave Scanlan said he did not even know his department was part of the lawsuit because he never saw a letter informing the city it would be included unless it expressly declined. The department found out about it when it was time to buy more squad cars.

"We woke up and Ford wouldn't sell us any Crown Vics," he said.

Officials in some communities have decided to stay committed to the lawsuit. The community of Northlake, for example, has decided to convert its small fleet of Crown Victorias to Chevrolet Impalas.

"It just rubs me the wrong way that they can try and push everybody around," Mayor Jeffrey Sherwin said.

[03/22/05 03:25 EST]
-----------------------------------------------

bwiese
03-22-2005, 9:55 AM
Found this in THR.

All right! Way to go, Ford.

If some gun co's did something similar to this - to PDs in states w/freaky gun laws - we might have a bit of forward progress!

I'm laughing at the PDs who are gonna try to replace a heavy RWD car like the Crown Vic with a light FWD car like the new Impala. Pricing? not much different - durability? prob 50% less.

Bill Wiese
San Jose


http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050322033609990001

----------------------------------------------
MANY POLICE DEPARTMENTS DROP OUT OF FORD SUIT

Safety of Popular Cruiser Is Focus of Complaints

By DON BABWIN, AP

CHICAGO (March 22) - Dozens of police departments in Illinois who joined a lawsuit alleging that a popular police cruiser is unsafe have dropped out because they said Ford Motor Co. threatened to stop selling them the cars.

Ford's Crown Victorias have been the focus of legal battles since 2002, when some cities and towns began alleging in lawsuits that the police cruisers exploded easily in rear-end collisions.

Officials said switching from the Crown Victoria Interceptor to another vehicle would cost them tens of thousands of dollars, and the specially built police cruiser is still favored by many departments.

"I think it's coercion by Ford," said Trisha Murphy, a plaintiffs' attorney involved in the lawsuit.

Jim Feeney, an attorney for Ford, said approximately 120 police agencies in the state have dropped out of the lawsuit and more are planning to. He said the automaker just wants the departments to decide if they really want to sue.

"The bottom line is either they are serious about the lawsuit and the claims in the lawsuit or they're not," he said. "If you think the vehicle is unsafe - we don't - but if you do, don't expect us to supply you vehicles."

The Crown Victorias have been the focus of legal battles since 2002, when municipalities around the country began alleging in lawsuits that the vehicles explode too easily in rear collisions.

Since 1983, at least 15 police officers nationwide have died in fiery crashes after their cruisers were hit from behind.

In the first class-action lawsuit over the Crown Victoria to go to trial, a jury in St. Clair County in Illinois ruled in October that the cars were safe, although an appeal of the ruling is likely. A judge still must decide if the automaker violated state consumer fraud laws.

Ford took its no-sale position with the police departments in 2003 when the lawsuit became class action, Feeney said. "Now it's two years later and they're looking to replace their fleets and all of a sudden they're becoming aware of the fact they can't buy any cars," he said.

The Rolling Meadows Police Department is one of the departments that has dropped out of the lawsuit.

Deputy Police Chief Dave Scanlan said he did not even know his department was part of the lawsuit because he never saw a letter informing the city it would be included unless it expressly declined. The department found out about it when it was time to buy more squad cars.

"We woke up and Ford wouldn't sell us any Crown Vics," he said.

Officials in some communities have decided to stay committed to the lawsuit. The community of Northlake, for example, has decided to convert its small fleet of Crown Victorias to Chevrolet Impalas.

"It just rubs me the wrong way that they can try and push everybody around," Mayor Jeffrey Sherwin said.

[03/22/05 03:25 EST]
-----------------------------------------------

Rascal
03-22-2005, 12:49 PM
Good! I'm glad that Ford is gonna stop selling to Idiots. It's about time that companies stop being defensive and start going on the offence. I hope that this spreads, then maybe all these people that just want to sue will finally get an idea that nothing is for free.

Exiledviking
03-22-2005, 2:06 PM
FWIW,

There's more to this than meets the eye!

I fully agree that this country is getting
too sue happy.
However, this is not the first time Ford has
been called on the carpet in regards to this
Police Interceptor issue. This kind of thing
should not be an issue on a modern vehicle.
Note that this has occured multiple times.

bwiese
03-22-2005, 2:27 PM
Any car can blow up & catch on fire if you hit it hard enough.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Note that this has occured multiple times
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It'd be statistically odd if it DIDN'T: there's LOTS of Crown Vics out there in heavy-service applications. That is, number_of_cars X miles_driven = a very large number.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">this is not the first time Ford has
been called on the carpet in regards to this
Police Interceptor issue </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, someone will sue over something. Someone else sees that lawsuit and plays monkey-see, monkey-do. Aided & abetted by trial lawyers who see deep pockets.

It's interesting, by contrast, that there's
no real history of corresponding 'private sector' lawsuits (individuals, taxicabs, limos, corporate vehicles, rentals, etc.) concerning Crown Victoria behavior. It's all cops.

I suspect there's just sue-happy people that a crusading lawyer found. Cops, being gov't employees, file many, many more work injury-related lawsuits and workmens's comp/early disability retirement claims than employees in private sector.

If they don't like their job, they can go do what I do - go get a new one.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

50 Freak
03-22-2005, 4:31 PM
I bet you more likely it's the cities looking to score some quick money and see this as an opportunity to fill their coffers.

It's the whole Tabbacco thing all over. Frankly if your sucking down 5 packs of cancer sticks down a day, you sure as God should know there will be hell to pay down the line. If you didn't, well...that's Darwinism at work. But damn lawyers saw a way to make some quick money and here we have an enviroment where rather than accept the consequences for our own actions we blame an innanimate object. Take the lawsuit against the gun makers for instance.

bwiese
03-22-2005, 4:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I bet you more likely it's the cities looking to score some quick money and see this as an opportunity to fill their coffers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, there's some of that. But there's also indiv. officers suing separately from cities too - even if city not suing.

I was looking into this cuz I was thinking of a nice Crown Vicky before I decided to go for a 2004 F150XLT.

I notice that no liability insurance/workmens comp agencies are suing Ford even though they likely had to pay out for officer injuries in accident...

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Ford8N
03-22-2005, 5:17 PM
I have used a 2004 Crown Vic. It's a nice car. Lots of room with the bench seat. Good old American car. The Auto reviewers don't like it, said it was a stale dinosaur. I say maybe to a metrosexual male it is, but I'm not "PC". http://www.calguns.net/cowboy.gif

Exiledviking
03-22-2005, 9:53 PM
Here's one response:

"With all due respect to the previous post, one of my brother officers in my agency, and a friend, burned to death in a Crown Victoria two years ago just after Christmas. He was parked on the shoulder of the interstate investigating an accident when his vehicle was rear-ended by a POS drunk. The gas tank ruptured, and the officer was splashed with fuel, and the vehicle then burst into flames...Witnesses, including an off-duty police officer from another agency, were unable to assist due to the excessive heat and speed at which the car was engulfed. However, they all said that the officer could be seen struggling to get out of the vehicle...It is my understanding that there was a design flaw involving some exposed bolt or part which was installed in such a way as to just about guarantee that the fuel tank would be punctured in a rear-end collision. I am not a mechanic, and do not pretend to know all the technical details, but I refuse to believe that Ford did not know about this problem. In my opinion, it is another example of a company deciding that it is cheaper to pay out some lawsuit settlements than it is to re-design a product. After all, what's fifteen dead cops, right....?

Just my two cents....
TroopSarge"

If there wasn't a problem, why did Ford pay for and install fueltank shields on these Police
Interceptors?

http://www.vehicle-injuries.com/ford-crown-victoria.htm

Also check this website:

http://www.crownvictoriasafetyalert.com/timeline.html

Pulsar
03-22-2005, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:
Found this in THR.

All right! Way to go, Ford.

If some gun co's did something similar to this - to PDs in states w/freaky gun laws - we might have a bit of forward progress!

I'm laughing at the PDs who are gonna try to replace a heavy RWD car like the Crown Vic with a light FWD car like the new Impala. Pricing? not much different - durability? prob 50% less. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I've just got to point out that Oregon uses Impala's. I don't really have any numbers for you, but I'm up in oregon and washington all the time and I see the oregon highway patrol using those all over. And I will admit I have a biased opinion for chevies, my family owns a chevy dealership. And as far as impala's go for durability the only time I ever see them in the shop is for oil changes.

But I still do aplaud ford for what they did.

wheelgunner
03-23-2005, 6:27 AM
Sounds like the similar thing that happened with the ford pinto. I recall retro fitting a plastic shield on a customers car to prevent fuel spillage during a collision.

Also noted that this was on website: The company also said it will offer an optional trunk package, which is designed to help police officers carry sharp-edged heavy equipment more safely.

bwiese
03-23-2005, 9:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Exiledviking write:
If there wasn't a problem, why did Ford pay for and install fueltank shields on these Police
Interceptors? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ford was probably trying to appear cooperative and helpful. Probably stupid idea out of PR/marketing, and maybe against their (Ford's) lawyer's wishes - because it might look like they had something to cover up.

And just because someone dies in a car accident doesn't mean it's not within statistical norms.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
http://www.vehicle-injuries.com/ford-crown-victoria.htm

Also check this website:

http://www.crownvictoriasafetyalert.com/timeline.html </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These websites are made by the lawyers for plaintiffs. Of course they're gonna assert what they claim.

I'll still buy a Crown Vic!


Bill Wiese
San Jose

bwiese
03-23-2005, 9:50 AM
Pulsar --

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Pulsar wrote:
...got to point out that Oregon uses Impala's. I don't really have any numbers for you, but I'm up in oregon and washington all the time and I see the oregon highway patrol using those all over. And I will admit I have a biased opinion for chevies, my family owns a chevy dealership. And as far as impala's go for durability the only time I ever see them in the shop is for oil changes.

But I still do aplaud Ford for what they did. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, yay Ford - way to go.

BTW I really have no beef with an Impala as an ordinary car against other ordinary cars. (Too bad it's not the Impala/Caprice of early 90s though!) I'd think Impala = Taurus = Camry, at least somewhat.

[And not much bias against Chevy/GMC either - my last truck was a Sierra, which gave me good service.]

But Impala is a front-wheel drive med-size lighter weight car. More crap packed into tight engine bay. Harder to service. Likely substantially more alignment issues than a RWD sedan esp in heavy duty usage. I also can't imagine a FWD gearbox, downsized to fit in engine bay, being more robust then a regular RWD fullsize transmission for heavy driving and traffic idling issues.

I suspect that as time goes on PDs will see higher wear in aging Impalas (or, say, Tauruses) than they will in a larger/heavier RWD car like Crown Victoria (or old Caprice/Impala).

FWD cars may offer better wet/icy road handling. But in my mind robustness of FWD cars for daily cop activity - jumping curbs, pushing stuff out of way via bumper racks, etc., etc - is not what a RWD car like a Crown Victoria (or the old 1990s Chevy Caprice platform) can offer.

So I'm only beating up on Chevy/GM for not offering a durable RWD car platform. I'd love for them to bring the Caprice/Impala/Buick Roadmaster wagon platform back.

The whole existence & promotion of many front-wheel drive cars is NOT for any perceived benefits (icy roads etc): it's quite a bit cheaper to manufacturem since it requires substantially less assembly time for a FWD car. On a FWD care power train (engine+tranny etc) can be dropped in as a module.

I took a tour of the NUMMI plant in Fremont in mid-90s when they were building Corolla/ GeoPrizm and some of the Toyota pickup trucks there. Due to modularity of powertrain, it took around 10 min LESS assembly time to assemble a nicely equipped Corolla than it did to make a basic strippy Toyota pickup w/4cyl + manual tranny.

These assembly time differences may have tightened/improved in the last 10yrs but probably not by too much.

And I'm biased a bit too: I like cars that, when I open the hood, I can still see a bit of the ground underneath http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Bill Wiese
San Jose


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Pulsar
03-23-2005, 11:47 AM
Yeah I have to agree with ya there, and I do like rear wheel drive more than front wheel.

I also got to thinking, it seems like ford is trying to discontinue the crown vic altogether. It looks like they want to Ford 500 or what ever it's called to replace it. I'm not sure if it's front or rear wheel drive, but it's definatly a full size car.

bwiese
03-23-2005, 1:18 PM
Pulsar--

The Ford 500 is the Taurus replacement. From what I've heard/seen it is front-wheel drive (ugh!)

Crown Vic will still be in production!

Bill

Pulsar
03-23-2005, 4:55 PM
about time they phased out the taurus, I hate those things. But that's mainly cause I usually wind up driving one whenever I have to go pick up cars from the auctions.

With your arguments brought up, wouldn't that new chrysler car, I think the 300 or what ever it's called, be the perfect police car. I know it's rear wheel drive, and one of the packages comes with the hemi. Of course they are selling so many of em right now that chrysler dealerships have a hard time keeping them in stock.

bwiese
03-23-2005, 5:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pulsar:
about time they phased out the Taurus, I hate those things. But that's mainly cause I usually wind up driving one whenever I have to go pick up cars from the auctions.[.quote]

I know some people had some probs w/them but I've always liked them - for $14K-$15K 'basic' versions. Roomier than Camry, etc.

[quote]With your arguments brought up, wouldn't that new chrysler car, I think the 300 or what ever it's called, be the perfect police car. I know it's rear wheel drive, and one of the packages comes with the hemi. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, they're selling for $$ because they're hot. So prob no pricing structure set up for Chrysler prob doesn't have a heavy service package (taxi/police cruiser) for it yet.

And the only problem is that it's a Chrysler. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Buy a car, get a free bearing-seal leak (at least on 318 engines dunno about Hemis).

Chrysler has always seemed dodgiest of Big 3. When I was looking at trucks the interiors of the Chrysler were cheesiest compared w/same 'level' interior of GM or Ford.

Friend told me that in late 70s/early 80s in LA, when they were using Dodge Diplomats for cop cars, they had to go to flatbed towing. The frames were so light yet car heavy enough that regular dolly towing permanently tweaked the frames...

My folks' '78 LeBaron had a 318 V8. At 28+K it'd leak 1qt oil in 3wks. Not burn, but leak.

I've not really heard a lot of positive about Daimler-Chrysler products recently other than "nice styling".

I know several people w/Chrysler/Dodge minivans who've gone thru multiple transmissions with just ordinary driving - no overloads, overtemp conditions, etc. So they bought Toyota etc next.


Bill Wiese
San jose

RRangel
03-23-2005, 5:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pulsar:
about time they phased out the taurus, I hate those things. But that's mainly cause I usually wind up driving one whenever I have to go pick up cars from the auctions.

With your arguments brought up, wouldn't that new chrysler car, I think the 300 or what ever it's called, be the perfect police car. I know it's rear wheel drive, and one of the packages comes with the hemi. Of course they are selling so many of em right now that chrysler dealerships have a hard time keeping them in stock. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perfect car yes. FWD no. It's rear wheel drive and it uses almost a Mercedes drivetrain and chassis which is also a big plus. No more of those cheap Chrysler parts to break on you. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The perfect police car:

http://www.mavromatic.com/images/2005-MAGNUM.jpg

We’ve seen the Lamborghini Police Cars, but Dodge is upping the ante in the law enforcement market with a new rear-wheel drive Dodge Magnum police car powered by the legendary HEMI V-8 engine. The 2005 Dodge Magnum SXT model will be available this fall for police special service use. For 2006, Dodge will introduce a police package which will be offered on the Dodge Magnum model. I bet it will even make the thieves not want to out run the cops, so they can get a better look at the car.

http://www.mavromatic.com/archives/000304.asp

icormba
03-23-2005, 9:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Admin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pulsar:
about time they phased out the taurus, I hate those things. But that's mainly cause I usually wind up driving one whenever I have to go pick up cars from the auctions.

With your arguments brought up, wouldn't that new chrysler car, I think the 300 or what ever it's called, be the perfect police car. I know it's rear wheel drive, and one of the packages comes with the hemi. Of course they are selling so many of em right now that chrysler dealerships have a hard time keeping them in stock. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perfect car yes. FWD no. It's rear wheel drive and it uses almost a Mercedes drivetrain and chassis which is also a big plus. No more of those cheap Chrysler parts to break on you. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The perfect police car:

http://www.mavromatic.com/images/2005-MAGNUM.jpg

We’ve seen the Lamborghini Police Cars, but Dodge is upping the ante in the law enforcement market with a new rear-wheel drive Dodge Magnum police car powered by the legendary HEMI V-8 engine. The 2005 Dodge Magnum SXT model will be available this fall for police special service use. For 2006, Dodge will introduce a police package which will be offered on the Dodge Magnum model. I bet it will even make the thieves not want to out run the cops, so they can get a better look at the car.

http://www.mavromatic.com/archives/000304.asp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Police Pursuit "patty wagon" all in one!! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Pulsar
03-23-2005, 10:22 PM
Yeah, you do have a point about chrysler being sketchy. It seems like we are always having to get parts for em before we can put em on the lot just to make em safe. The only thing they seem to do right is the diesel, but then, chrysler doesn't actually build that engine.


But we are all forgetting something here, we are talking about what a government organisation would be buying to use. As we all know that usually means lowest bid, so it's up for grabs which of the big three get it.

wheelgunner
03-24-2005, 5:54 AM
bwiese,
I liked the old chevy caprice also. When we got the first delivery (4 cars) of the round style body shapes, when you mashed the gas pedal the engine would rev up to 7000 rpm before upshifting! With the gear selector in drive! It would scratch the tires on 2nd and 3rd. There was a recall about transmissions blowing up on the interceptor package. When we got the cars back from the dealer the trannys would upshift at 4000 rpm http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Even if you shifted manually the power was not there anymore and it would only go to 5500 rpm. Those fisrt cars hauled *** and the roller cam engines got some great power.

Also I was told by former fleet manager that the caprice police interceptor package Frame is a station wagon frame. They were definately reinforced in certain areas, especially in the front suspension steering area. That area takes a severe beating, bottoming out, sideways into curbs, etc... I can't imagine a front wheel drive car with a unitized body frame holding up to the abuse of a boxed perimeter frame. Front brakes usually only lasted 3000 to 6000 miles with factory police package brake pads, aftermarket pads would not hold up. ( note-for example a auto manufacturer might have 15 different types of brake materials taylored to specific vehicles, aftermarket brake pad manufacturer used to only have 4 different materials ) I have no idea how the newer aftermarket ceramic brake pads would do.

Purchases by local departments around here used to piggy back on the CHP bid, I don't know if that is still done. Whatever standard cruizer the CHP bought that year the local departments would also purchase (not including the special high speed interceptors like the camaro or mustang), cheaper to purchase with a bigger order.

Local PD has also purchased Chevy Tahoe, those are actually doing pretty good. I am told that they only loose about 1/2 G around specified turning radius compared to Crown Vic. Only problem I have heard is that cops are putting to much crap -overloading in the back that they complain that the handling is getting worse (duh, put alot of weight in back guess what).

Was also told by former fleet manager, and read it in hotrod magazines that GM discontinued its rear wheel drive cars do to low sales and used those RWD manufacturing plants to assemble SUVs and trucks which are selling very well.

bwiese
03-24-2005, 9:49 AM
Wheelgunner...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">wheelgunner wrote:
lso I was told by former fleet manager that the caprice police interceptor package Frame is a station wagon frame. They were definately reinforced in certain areas, especially in the front suspension steering area. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Caprice/Impala of early 90s shared lots with the Buick Roadmaster station wagon, a real behemoth.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Front brakes usually only lasted 3000 to 6000 miles with factory police package brake pads, aftermarket pads would not hold up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah prob driving styles, etc. shortend brake life. And how the front/rear proportioning was set up too.

My 200 GMC Sierra 1500 V6/2WD truck I just sold has had 2 front brake jobs in its 68K miles. The rears were still 90+%!

Ford Tauruses also use their front brakes mostly. Late 80s and early 90s Tauruses had hardly any rear brake wear even at 90K miles.

I put the high end ceramic pads on this truck and got 45K miles out of 'em. 'Course, I'm doing commuter driving, 65% freeway/expressway, not lotsa stop & go.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">told by former fleet manager, and read it in hotrod magazines that GM discontinued its rear wheel drive cars do to low sales and used those RWD manufacturing plants to assemble SUVs and trucks which are selling very well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. Caprice etc was getting mostly govt/institutional/taxi orders except for a few nutcases like us that wouldn't mind a RWD police car http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And SUVs have much higher profit margin so it was no-brainer to shut that line down.

Ford held out, its Crown Vic has always looked pretty nice in comparison w/bulbous Caprice so they do get some fraction of orders by regular folks. And being the only game in town gives 'em advantage, and is worth keeping line open.


Bill W
San Jose