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View Full Version : Can employers be sued?


Window_Seat
05-31-2009, 8:30 PM
For depriving employees of their RKBA while on the job if they are operating a company vehicle, especially in trucking? Do we go after the employers if it's possible?

I have posted several topics related to this subject, but I don't believe I actually asked this particular question.

With Nordyke and Heller, as well as the future of Sykes, could it be feasible for one to take on this kind of issue as an agenda for the future?

Erik.

HowardW56
05-31-2009, 8:34 PM
I don't know if they can be sued, but just about all of the truckers I know carry guns...

dsmoot
05-31-2009, 8:42 PM
A few years ago my father was working in Watts and south central LA, and was called out on overtime in the middle of the night a lot. The company he works for would not allow their employees to carry on the job. They have to drive these white trucks with reflective stripes down the side which just so happen to be about the same height as the top and bottom of your torso, basically giving the gang members a perfect target to shoot at. Finally after complaining long enough, the company gave in and bought the employees some bullet proof vests to supposedly keep from getting sued! But they still can't carry :confused:

GaryV
05-31-2009, 8:44 PM
The short answer is no. The BoR does not apply to actions of individuals, only the government.

outersquare
05-31-2009, 8:47 PM
i don't understand why civil rights have greater protections than the bill of rights

GaryV
05-31-2009, 8:58 PM
i don't understand why civil rights have greater protections than the bill of rights

Because the BoR refers specifically to rights usually violated by government (and was specifically meant to prevent that), such as freedom of the press, freedom from unwarranted search and seizure, jury trial, etc., while civil rights are even more fundamental things that are often violated by individuals, such as life, the right not to be assaulted, etc.

w55
05-31-2009, 9:06 PM
Bit off topic but a worker at my company got fired for having a firearm visiable in his car...15 years and gone.

tyrist
05-31-2009, 10:15 PM
No you cannot.

G17GUY
05-31-2009, 10:33 PM
Bit off topic but a worker at my company got fired for having a firearm visiable in his car...15 years and gone.

personal car?

w55
05-31-2009, 10:47 PM
personal car?

Yes, he was a lineman for PGandE, he left a firearm in plain view in the company parking lot, his car.

He was fired for the no weapons to work or work property policy.

Happened last year.

berto
05-31-2009, 11:05 PM
Your employer will tell you you're free to find another job. They're not depriving you of your 2A rights anymore than requiring you to abstain from cursing at the customers deprives you of your 1A rights. The BoR limits govt. Follow the company rules, break their rules and risk termination, or find a new job with rules more to your liking.

50BMGBOB
06-01-2009, 12:46 AM
I had a boss call me into his office because someone had told him I had a gun (pistol) in my car on company property (a sawmill in the mountains). He and I had already had bad blood between us for other reasons. He had me sit in his office and read the company firearm policy and then asked me if I had any questions. I simply asked him if he was going to fire the 5 employees that had shotguns or deer rifles in the back window of there pickup trucks that I could see from his office window. When he said no, I asked him if I had it clear that while he didn't plan on doing anything about those he could see where violating company policy, he had me in his office for a rumor that I had violated the same policy. He got a worried look on his face and sent me back to work. Two months latter I found a better job and quit but he never bothered me during those two months.

Untamed1972
06-01-2009, 8:47 AM
If you do some research on civil rights, like 1A for example you will find that the court allows for more restriction of your 1A when at work then it does when out in public places. Your civil rights are not absolute.

I also thought there was some federal DOT law about having guns in trucks?

I think the law would likely look at it like this: You are granted the freedom in this country to work anywhere you want. If you don't like the policies of the company you work for you, you are free to find another job.

From a company's perspective it's all about the liability for them. If they allow you to have guns they take on huge liability if anything happens to someone because of it. So they hafta weigh the risks. Is it cheaper to pay out a death/disability claim if YOU get injured or killed, as opposed to YOU injuring or killing someone else with your weapon?

Untamed1972
06-01-2009, 8:53 AM
I would add though that if there are clearly serious safety issues with your job that can be clearly articulated, or even examples of incidents that have already occurred, those should be brought to the attention of your employer and possibly OSHA, to see if there are other remedies that can be enacted to mitigate some of those issues.

Like if you're having to go into bad neighborhoods, perhaps they could restrict the times of day you are there, some body armor, pepper spray, tazer and things like that. Things that give you some protection and a fighting chance while still limiting the company's liability.

If you are truly concerned about your own life, simply ask if would be allowed to provide those things for yourself if the company will not provide them for you.

jimh
06-01-2009, 9:29 AM
I have a better question, can an employer be sued for letting employees carry? If employers liability was limited then I think more employers would allow it.

nicki
06-01-2009, 10:06 AM
The guns in the parking lot is a issue that is playing across the country.

Basically it undermines CCW for alot of people unless they can find off work parking at their jobs.

Many states are passing laws prohibiting employers from banning people from having arms in their cars.

As far as on the job, problem will be liability. If you get killed on the job, your boss tells your spouse how sorry they are, file a life insurance claim.

If you defend yourself while on the job, the person you shoot sues your company for millions.

It costs the company less to have your truck hjacked and you killed than it does if you even legitimately defend yourself.

Companies develop policies based on reducing risk for the company, protecting their assetts is a higher priority for them than you protecting your life while on company time.

Right now with the economy the way it is, employees are a expendible and replacable commodity. Sorry for such a cold comment.

Nicki

thatrogue
06-01-2009, 10:23 AM
I'm a Recovery agent...... and you guys are right on, It's thought to be easier to fight and cheaper if they have to pay out when my family sues for not allowing me to ccw resulting in death. Than all the possible problems that could arise from carry. That's why I'm eventually gonna start my own agency. So I can have more than body armor to protect my life.

HondaMasterTech
06-01-2009, 10:26 AM
You are not forced to work there. You can probably sue them. Doesnt mean youll win.

GaryV
06-01-2009, 11:22 AM
I have a better question, can an employer be sued for letting employees carry? If employers liability was limited then I think more employers would allow it.

Definitely. This is why states that have passed (or are trying to pass) "Guns at Work" laws have included clauses that make the employer immune from civil liability resulting from employees keeping guns in their cars.

EOD Guy
06-01-2009, 11:50 AM
I also thought there was some federal DOT law about having guns in trucks?


No, there isn't. State and local laws apply.

motorhead
06-01-2009, 12:31 PM
last i heard only the business owner could legally carry loaded on the business premises. this was discussed elsewhere a while back.

EOD Guy
06-01-2009, 12:39 PM
last i heard only the business owner could legally carry loaded on the business premises. this was discussed elsewhere a while back.


As I said, state and local laws determine the legality. There is no applicahble Federal law.

bussda
06-01-2009, 1:10 PM
For depriving employees of their RKBA while on the job if they are operating a company vehicle, especially in trucking? Do we go after the employers if it's possible?

I have posted several topics related to this subject, but I don't believe I actually asked this particular question.

With Nordyke and Heller, as well as the future of Sykes, could it be feasible for one to take on this kind of issue as an agenda for the future?

Erik.

No. The controlling agency here is OSHA. Based upon case law and regulations, because the employer is responsible for employee safety on the job, they can regulate employees conduct while working. Beyond that, the insurer of the company also determines this based on company rules and regulations, i.e., higher insurance premiums for a policy allowing armed employees at work. It really reduces violence and increases safety, but such information is usually ignored.

CCWFacts
06-01-2009, 2:40 PM
Yes, he was a lineman for PGandE, he left a firearm in plain view in the company parking lot, his car.

He was fired for the no weapons to work or work property policy.

Happened last year.

It sucks, but they had to fire him. Those policies are zero-tolerance policies and, unless he somehow had a CCW (unlikely in California) he was committing a crime also. Having a gun in the car for such a person is somewhere on the border between foolish and (perhaps) justifiable. Leaving it in plain site is far away from the border and in recklessly foolish territory. He shouldn't have done it, but when he did, they had no choice but to fire him.

dsmoot
06-01-2009, 3:48 PM
It sucks, but they had to fire him. Those policies are zero-tolerance policies and, unless he somehow had a CCW (unlikely in California) he was committing a crime also. Having a gun in the car for such a person is somewhere on the border between foolish and (perhaps) justifiable. Leaving it in plain site is far away from the border and in recklessly foolish territory. He shouldn't have done it, but when he did, they had no choice but to fire him.

How was it a crime for him to have a firearm in his car in plain sight? Yes, it was against company policy, and therefore they can fire him, but a crime :confused: Unless the handgun is concealed (which then it wouldnt have been seen) or his work was within 1000 feet of a school, then it is not a crime.