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View Full Version : Calguns gun buyback.


nicki
05-31-2009, 4:59 PM
Maybe we should have our own gun buyback programs.

Before you guys freak, here me out.

We would give people the opportunity to sell the guns to us.

If useless guns or crap guns were turned in, we could turn those over to the police for destruction.

Many of the people who turn in such guns are probably not the most responsible and competent gun owners to start with.

Would any of you really want to depend on a RG or Lorcin pistol to protect your life? In a desperate situation, perhaps they are better than nothing.

On the other hand, who would want to see a WW1 Colt 45 sent to the smelter.

What I am thinking though is we could save "collector pieces", return stolen guns to rightful owners with a request for donations to continue programs.

Let's face it, there are many people who shouldn't have guns and if those guns came to us, it could potentially save us some grief.

If nothing else, we might actually be able to get positive press since we would be "getting guns off the streets".

Now, if we combine that with firearms safety courses, we actually could reach people whom we otherwise couldn't reach.

Don't know what the legalities would be, perhaps there is a hole in the PPT transfers.

Think of it this way, it would be a opportunity for many of us to pick up good quality used pistols in the 200 dollar range.

Those of you who would "volunteer" to man the booths would get first picks:D

Nicki

ojisan
05-31-2009, 5:10 PM
Those of you who would "volunteer" to man the booths would get first picks:D Nicki

"Volunteer"?
Heck, we could easily sell raffle tickets or set-up a lottery or accept large cash bribes for the position of I-get-first-choice-booth-worker.
You really need to think these things through.
:p

GMG
05-31-2009, 5:33 PM
"Volunteer"?
Heck, we could easily sell raffle tickets or set-up a lottery or accept large cash bribes for the position of I-get-first-choice-booth-worker.
You really need to think these things through.
:p


Second in line. :D:D

Dirtbiker
05-31-2009, 5:38 PM
So we just buy back these guns and walk away with them?

I don't think we would get too far with them.

oldschool88
05-31-2009, 5:42 PM
I like the idea, just to stay legal they could be transferred like a PPT but to a CGer who wants it or something along those lines.

sfwdiy
05-31-2009, 6:50 PM
This is a situation where I think it may be worth it for CGF to acquire an FFL. The VPC has one, why don't we? The buybacks wouldn't be a problem at that point.

--B

Scratch705
05-31-2009, 6:53 PM
I would volunteer just to not see collector pieces goto smelters.

hawk1
05-31-2009, 7:14 PM
You'd need to get someone to fund the buyback.

liketoshoot
05-31-2009, 7:24 PM
Good idea, but needs to be refined and if it was in conjunction with the area police and a licensed FFL present it could work anywhere in this state.

Rifle Fetish
05-31-2009, 7:28 PM
I doubt if LEO/ATF will like this idea.

I personally would not like to buy a gun off the street most likely used in robberies or worse.

In some ways its a good idea, but doing it to "pick up good quality used pistols" is a horrible idea IMHO.

N6ATF
05-31-2009, 11:48 PM
Make sure they end up in the hands of mortally fearful people holding individual restraining orders (legal concealed carry sans permit (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.5.html)!) or other needy people. Like used cellphones to dial 911 with, but dialing 1911 is actually effective!

Darklyte27
06-01-2009, 5:55 AM
ill pay 100$ per M1A, Garand, M1 Carbine !! haha

tenpercentfirearms
06-01-2009, 6:01 AM
I am going to play devil's advocate on this one. Honestly, who uses gun buy back programs? Are these generally law abiding citizens turning in guns that you really want to deal with? Is our time wisely spent taking a bunch of junk and possibly stolen or crime ladden guns off the street at our expense?

Now, an interesting theme would be turn in your junk gun for a better quality gun. A re-arm the population campaign. I am not sure about the non-profit implications there. Or maybe any good guns that get turned in are sold and the proceeds are donated to the foundation.

However, you might be able to get an FFL and a smaller gun friendly PD to go along with such an operation. I think Taft might not mind making some headlines for a gun trade up program. If you have a piece of junk gun and want a decent gun, come turn it in and start your back ground on a new gun. Hell, that sounds more like just smart marketing on a gun shop level absent of the foundation.

Personally it sounds like a lot of work, I am not sure what we would want to acomplish out of it, and would it really fit in with out goals.

I think the only distasteful thing about a gun buy back is the fact that sometimes good guns get thrown out. However, you can always buy more guns. They really are just possessions and not nearly important as other things in life.

DDT
06-01-2009, 6:44 AM
I doubt if LEO/ATF will like this idea.

I personally would not like to buy a gun off the street most likely used in robberies or worse.

In some ways its a good idea, but doing it to "pick up good quality used pistols" is a horrible idea IMHO.

I don't understand the aversion to firearms that MAY have been used for evil purposes at some point during their existence. I'm sure that many of the Aks coming into this country weren't always used against inanimate targets.

DDT
06-01-2009, 6:47 AM
Clearly what we need is a fair PD or SO that is cash strapped and then set up our gun buy-back next to the next LAPD/LASO buy back booths. I'm sure that with all the experience the LAPD has in working out of their primary jurisdiction they won't mind a Mendocino county police presence in their city for a few days.

socal2310
06-01-2009, 7:07 AM
Does anyone have statistics on guns turned in during buyback programs. Do they run serials on firearms turned in at "No questions asked" buybacks?

I'm somewhat skeptical of the claim that they are used to dispose of firearms linked to crimes. Criminals aren't the most trusting and I doubt many of them are going to take police at their word, particularly since police are not legally bound by their word. I strongly suspect that most firearms turned in are either family heirlooms or junk.

Ryan

Scarecrow Repair
06-01-2009, 7:27 AM
One of the more humorous parts of the Nordyke hearing was the Alameda attorney arguing the sale could be completed in the parking lot when no, it couldn't, that would be illegal.

Would this have to be done in a gun store? There'd have to be an FFL present to do the transfer; would the location have to be the FFL's business address, ie the gunshop, or could an FFL set up camp in any store (with permission of course) or someone's home?

rolo
06-01-2009, 8:48 AM
Let's face it, there are many people who shouldn't have guns and if those guns came to us, it could potentially save us some grief.
Nicki

I may be jumping the gun (har har) and this has already been addressed, but can you clarify what you meant above?

kermit
06-01-2009, 9:27 AM
If you made it clear that ID would be required and that all firearm serial numbers would be checked, then perhaps you would keep down the number of gang bangers and just get those people who don't want a gun in the house anymore.

nicki
06-01-2009, 9:32 AM
Originally Posted by nicki
Let's face it, there are many people who shouldn't have guns and if those guns came to us, it could potentially save us some grief.
Nicki

With rights, come responsiblities. Sadly, many guns are owned by irresponsible people.

It is these irresponsible gun owners that are "incidents" waiting to happen.

Many people come into possession of guns, they are not necessarily bad people, but they are people who for whatever reason never shoot the gun, have no idea how it operates, how to load, unload, etc.

In short, they are clueless. I don't believe in government restrictions since the govt always seems to expand the restriction list.

What we have proposed here though, is not a government program, it is a private program.

The difference with our program is if someone comes with something unsafe, we take it off the street. If someone has a collector gun, they get rid of the gun, we get a piece of history.

Sure there will be stolen guns, and the correct thing for us to do is return the guns to the owners. If we ask the owners for a donation, I hope we would get high participation.

A letter to the effect of:

Dear Gun Owner

Calguns foundation, a Cal based gun rights foundation is now running it's own gun buyback program. It is our goal to return stolen firearms to their owners since this is something the police won't do.

Our foundation is run by donations, on our buybacks, we give 100 dollars per gun. This is a trial project started by the donations of a few. The project will continue until we run out of funds. Your generous donation will help keep the project alive.

This is just a thought off my head. I figure that Ralph's and the other sponsors of the gun buybacks do it to get free positive public exposure.

Give away 1000, 100 dollar visa cards, you get a news story in the paper and on at least one television news station. It costs more to buy TV advertising.

Nicki

Silverback
06-01-2009, 9:43 AM
I doubt if LEO/ATF will like this idea.


Who cares? What they like and what is legal are sometimes diametrically opposing concepts. As long as you are not violating a law they have no business in your business.:mad: Of course, if you voted for BHO then you, in principle, have already accepted Big Gov in your business anyway.:rolleyes:

Futurecollector
06-01-2009, 9:51 AM
Hey just get one person giving out the cards and all the rifles could be drosed to him,

I like the IDEA, but practiaclly I think it would be a nightmare for the poor FFl that is doing all paperwork,

But I would help :43:

bsim
06-01-2009, 9:52 AM
I like the idea. Plan B would be to setup an 'appraisal booth' at gov't buybacks. At least we could educate some of 'the masses' on what they have. Maybe some would realize the things they're planning on smelting are worth more than $100 worth of toilet paper.

DDT
06-01-2009, 10:41 AM
I like the idea. Plan B would be to setup an 'appraisal booth' at gov't buybacks. At least we could educate some of 'the masses' on what they have. Maybe some would realize the things they're planning on smelting are worth more than $100 worth of toilet paper.

Firearms appraisal booth sound awesome. I wonder if we could UOC and display a few EBRs in the booth too.

shooting4life
06-01-2009, 10:53 AM
I was thinking have calguns get an FFL. If a gun that is turned in is stolen then it should be returned to the rightful owner and all other guns get put up on gunbroker and all proceeds go to the CGF.

adamsreeftank
06-01-2009, 11:04 AM
What if we worked with the typical buy-back groups and agreed to buy any valuable or histoic guns at a low - but reasonable price, and the money went to the program to buy more guns. I've seen a few that ran out of money and had to offer vouchers. If they had some collectors or Calguns representatives pulling valuable items and buying them on the spot, the PD or whever could keep the thing going longer and get more guns "off the street."

motorhead
06-01-2009, 11:21 AM
under the existing buy-back programs, l.e. is supposed to run all the s/n's and try to return any reported stolen to their rightful owners. how often this actually happens is questionable.

bohoki
06-01-2009, 11:34 AM
you need to be under the authorization of the police because only they have immunity in case stolen property is turned in

Edge
06-01-2009, 12:10 PM
I was thinking have calguns get an FFL. If a gun that is turned in is stolen then it should be returned to the rightful owner and all other guns get put up on gunbroker and all proceeds go to the CGF.

Why put them up on gunbroker when we have our own marketplace here?

Asphodel
06-01-2009, 12:13 PM
I think Nicki is exactly right............this is an idea whose 'time has come'.

We, who say we are 2A people, really should feel that we are in a 'put up or shut up' position, relative to this so-called 'buy-back' scam.

Yes, there may be details to be worked out, but it seems reasonable to me that someone with the necessary licensing should be willing to participate in the purchase of handguns and such long guns as require 'dros'....if nothing else, it should be good publicity for a business.

Would the Calguns foundation people be willing to invest some $$ in advertising, in local news media targetted at the relatively poverty or 'high crime' areas, to promote 'free appraisals' at some convenient locations?

{Presumably, there would be some number of 2A people on hand with $ to purchase any legally personally salable long gun, and/or advise the owner to place other types of firearms on consignment with a licensed dealer.......buying some 'junk guns' at the 'buy-back price' might be worth doing, if the funding can be found, just as an investment in publicity)

Would it be possible to convince some owner of a vacant store-front to rent the space for a week-end, say, for a low rental figure, but with some volunteer clean-up, maybe some painting, as part of the deal?

(personally, I would favour a big sign, saying 'If you know a gun is stolen or was used in a crime, don't bring it here')

cheers

Carla

nicki
06-01-2009, 1:54 PM
Not only could we do a buyback, but if there is interest, we could have firearms education and NRA type refuse to be a victim classes offered.

This is something I think the NSSF should help us on.

The big thing we could possibly get out of this is positive public exposure.

Perhaps in hostile cities rather than run the program under the Calguns banner, we run it under a PINK PISTOL banner.:eek:

That way if we get bad press, they attack the LBGT community in the process.:rolleyes:

I'm sure Gene will probably view this thread soon, be curious to see what his comments are.

Since many of us are in the SF Bay area, I think Oakland would be a good place to try to make things happen.

Perhaps make it a weekend event, hit Oakland on a Sat, hit San Fran on a Sunday.

Nicki

shooting4life
06-01-2009, 3:15 PM
Why put them up on gunbroker when we have our own marketplace here?


If we could set up a type of bidding system then here can work as well. The point of doing the buy back would be to raise money for the CGF and not to snag great deals for us. On gunbroker we would have bidders from across the u.s. and in every description we could put a couple of paragraphs about how the gun came to be available and how people can donate more money to the cause.

I think the hardest part would be getting the po-po on board.

garandguy10
06-01-2009, 3:42 PM
I will fund the buy back purchases and I am a FFL in California. Of course I get to keep what I buy, but I will give deals to helpful members.
Of course all firearms would have to have a second hand dealer check on through the DOJ, which takes 30 days before I could start the dros to interested non licensee's

mauritz45
06-01-2009, 4:29 PM
if it ever comes to fruition, perhaps the guns could be offered to MEMBERS through the gun auction site geo vario is setting up here. overage would go to CGF to further the great work being done.--cam

7x57
06-01-2009, 4:35 PM
Firearms appraisal booth sound awesome. I wonder if we could UOC and display a few EBRs in the booth too.

Bad idea--don't mix activities. You want to avoid controversy beyond what the buyback/appraisal idea is already going to create. The people turning in a Colt National Match for $100 are clearly clueless, they are probably clueless about the imagined hazards of guys with non-functional guns on their hips too. We don't want to scare them away before we can save the guns.

The Appraisal idea has the advantage that it gives LE many fewer opportunities to legally harass the appraisers (which, I'm confident, they will want to do). You could even hand out written offers to buy, good for thirty days, at a regular FFL's place of business. That keeps the transaction away from the sidewalk and should make it less likely to run afoul of the law (whether there is a legal problem or not).

Say, can we make this into a non-profit environmentalist charity to "save the guns"?

7x57

RP1911
06-01-2009, 4:46 PM
This would work best at a Gun Show since the premises are rented by a promotor who has gone through the COE, ATF background checks and the show is a legal venue for participating FFLs.

The only issue is parking and entry fee.

7x57
06-01-2009, 5:17 PM
This would work best at a Gun Show since the premises are rented by a promotor who has gone through the COE, ATF background checks and the show is a legal venue for participating FFLs.

The only issue is parking and entry fee.

Hmm. This is an interesting idea. What we'd have to do is get the promoter on board to let people in free if all they want to do is participate in the buy-back, as a public relations move. Even if the press coverage is bad, getting a gun show on the news is surely a win for the promoter.

7x57

Vectrexer
06-01-2009, 6:45 PM
I like the idea of an appraisal booth at the same site as the Buy Back site.

But it will need to have all the same clearances to operate as the Buy Back program does. I suspect these things are not just setup on the fly. Doesn't the Buy Back program also need to have permits and perhaps fees for the extra police coverage that may be needed?? What about generally security for the operation? Wouldn't the city require something to cover security as well?

7x57
06-01-2009, 7:16 PM
If it has to be permitted by the city, I can pretty much guarantee that it won't happen, whether because the city refuses to issue the permit or because "something happens" to the paperwork until too late. And I bet we'd never be able to get a California judge to stop that sort of conduct, either.

Here is another problem--this seems extremely vulnerable to police "discouragement." My suspicion is that if six burly cops just come over to "watch" and give the fish eye to every person coming up to the appraisal booth, it will intimidate people and, again, there won't be a thing we can do about it.

We could call that the "Hutchens tactic". :p

7x57

Prc329
06-01-2009, 7:31 PM
What would be interesting if you got local LE and an FFL involved. Say the gun can come in, LEO can check it for legality, IE stolen, etc. If it is "hot" it gets turned in to LEO for destruction, stolen, returned to the owner, no questions asked. If its clean it can be offered up for legal transfer at a fair price. If its junk, stolen, etc you get a Ralph's gift card. Its its Granny with her husbands old Colt revolver she gets a fair price and a collectors item doesn't go into Antonio Villaraigosa personal collection.

510dat
06-01-2009, 11:00 PM
How do pawn shops deal with the legalities? I'm sure that they see a fair number of stolen/crime guns, but they have a legal means of dealing with it, or they'd all be busted by now. That isn't the case, so there must be a mechanism.

RP1911
06-02-2009, 5:48 AM
How do pawn shops deal with the legalities? I'm sure that they see a fair number of stolen/crime guns, but they have a legal means of dealing with it, or they'd all be busted by now. That isn't the case, so there must be a mechanism.

Pawn shops have to fill out a form and send it in to the local PD or sheriff. The law enforcement agency runs a check on the serial number. If it is stolen, the deputy or officer picks up the firearm and provides a receipt. Chances are the pawn shop lost the money paid out for the firearm.

One of the reasons you don't get much for any item you pawn.