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View Full Version : Real Full Auto ownership in America.


nicki
05-31-2009, 3:02 PM
Does anyone have a idea of how many full autos Americans own, both legal and illegal.

If the Hughes admendment created a "Black Market" for "Full Autos" it would seem to me that there is a compelling public interest to open up the MG registry.

If the FEDS created a MG amnesty with a provision that you could keep what you had provided you paid the "TRANSFER TAX" assuming your gun wasn't stolen. If it was, you could buy it or get/build another gun, how many full autos do you think would suddenly appear?

Right now we have something in the range of 250,000 or so legally registered full autos.

What kind of numbers do you think we would really see?

Personally I think we would probably see at least 1 million full autos showing up to be registered.

If that happened, I guess full autos would be "common arms".

Nicki

7x57
05-31-2009, 3:26 PM
I would guess the number would be large if new manufacture was allowed, and the majority of the interest would be directly attributable to the demonization of FA giving it a mystique nothing else could.

7x57

AJAX22
05-31-2009, 3:32 PM
there are around 180,000 registered transferable full auto's in the NFA (IIRC)

if an amnesty were granted I'm sure absolutly every single ar15 in the U.S. would gain one extra 1/8 inch hole directly in line with the selector 1/8 from the top rail of the receiver..

and you wouldn't be able to buy tubing of any kind anywhere in the country.

there are over 300 million firearms in the US. that they know about. and my guess would be that there are at least 50 million more that were either built by individuals, imported illegally, or just circulate in the grey/black markets.

of those possibly 25% or so are semi automatic.

anything semi automatic can be easily and quickly converted to full automatic.

there are probably a LOT more illegal machine guns in the united states than there are legal ones.

I've seen a LOT of parts kits up for sale which were clearly made up of illegal machine guns that were cut up by owners who no longer wanted the risk of owning them... lots of them... as in thousands


lets put it this way.

The number of deactivated/dewatt firearms which were imported into the US after WWI WWII were unreal...

and only very... very... VERY few were ever registered..

the rest are still out there.

a lot of people don't know that they are illegal

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130033419
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130362130

CCWFacts
05-31-2009, 3:46 PM
I seem to remember hearing that there are ~200,000 items in the NFA registry and about half of them are transferable MGs. But I don't know.

If registration were opened permanently, I would probably convert both of my AR-15s and be done with it. If there were a short-term amnesty, I would probably try to register as many receivers or sears as I possibly could, purely for economic reasons.

VegasND
05-31-2009, 3:49 PM
Think about this. I never had any desire to own FA weapons. There was always a premium pricewise and the paperwork cost was on top of that. Ammo has never really been cheap; for full auto the cost can be enormous.

But, today, if the Hughes Amendment were repealed or significantly changed to allow new FA weapons to be registered, and I could afford the cost, I'd do so. I'd make certain I owned at least one FA weapon for the rest of my life as a message just because the government misused its power...

DDT
05-31-2009, 5:01 PM
I am quite certain that even though my lower isn't built up and has no lpk, pistol grip or upper it would get registered as a machine gun.

hawk81
05-31-2009, 5:39 PM
Yeap, tubing would be in short supply.


there are around 180,000 registered transferable full auto's in the NFA (IIRC)

if an amnesty were granted I'm sure absolutly every single ar15 in the U.S. would gain one extra 1/8 inch hole directly in line with the selector 1/8 from the top rail of the receiver..

and you wouldn't be able to buy tubing of any kind anywhere in the country.

there are over 300 million firearms in the US. that they know about. and my guess would be that there are at least 50 million more that were either built by individuals, imported illegally, or just circulate in the grey/black markets.

of those possibly 25% or so are semi automatic.

anything semi automatic can be easily and quickly converted to full automatic.

there are probably a LOT more illegal machine guns in the united states than there are legal ones.

I've seen a LOT of parts kits up for sale which were clearly made up of illegal machine guns that were cut up by owners who no longer wanted the risk of owning them... lots of them... as in thousands


lets put it this way.

The number of deactivated/dewatt firearms which were imported into the US after WWI WWII were unreal...

and only very... very... VERY few were ever registered..

the rest are still out there.

a lot of people don't know that they are illegal

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130033419
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130362130

dfletcher
05-31-2009, 5:51 PM
lets put it this way.

The number of deactivated/dewatt firearms which were imported into the US after WWI WWII were unreal...

and only very... very... VERY few were ever registered..

the rest are still out there.

a lot of people don't know that they are illegal

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130033419
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130362130

I recall seeing the DEWAT adverts in the early 60s and saw a few - delivered direct to your door before GCA 68. IIRC, they were fully functional but could not chamber or fire a round - the term readily convertible comes to mind. Alot of people think these aren't "real guns" and are similar to the solid aluminium blocked/resin receivers used on current replicas.

nicki
05-31-2009, 6:06 PM
Let's think of the poor widow who finds out that her late veteran husband snuck back a Full Auto War trophy.

I bet that there are a fair amount around, especially from the Vietnam era.
Sure there were 500,000 troops over in Vietnam, but how many people rotated through there?

Between WW2, Korea and Vietnam, how high could the numbers be.

Rather than us speculating, we could just ask the ATF. I'm sure they have some numbers, I bet they even have inflated the numbers which is good for us.

Nicki

AJAX22
05-31-2009, 6:11 PM
Full auto bring back guns turn up all the time, they usually get turned into the police, or (more often) they get dropped in the ocean or in blast holes etc. and destroyed

occasionally they remain as free market firearms either on the open market (extremely rare) or custodianship of them continues down the family lineage.

CCWFacts
05-31-2009, 6:20 PM
Let's think of the poor widow who finds out that her late veteran husband snuck back a Full Auto War trophy.

I bet that there are a fair amount around

I'm sure the numbers are in the 10s or 100s of thousands.

And in fact there has been a bill in Congress in the past two sessions to deal with this: the HR 442 Veterans Heritage Firearms Act (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h442/show), which would create an amnesty and allow these guns to get legal. It's appalling that someone went out and served his country, risked his life for our freedom, and then he or his heirs might become 10-year Federal felons because he brought back something that he risked his life for.

The bill currently has 85 co-sponsors. Write to your rep and ask him to support HR 442!!!

Corbin Dallas
05-31-2009, 6:20 PM
If the laws are changed I'll make certain to own a few lighting links.