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nicki
05-31-2009, 11:48 AM
Looking at our numbers, perhaps we should have a special forum for those who have interest in CCW reform.

Specifically what the CCW forum would do is help us identify who has concern for CCW reform and where everyone who has interest is located.

Even when we have success with the Sykes case or any other ccw case, we still have problem child sheriffs and police chiefs in power.

Even if we have shall issue, I expect that we will have lots of games.

The citizen model we need to look at is the Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners. While they got CCW through the legislature, they were able to make sure that citizens were able to get CCW permits on the local level.

Originally the group came together because of the efforts of 8 people. It was a group that grew to about 50,000 strong by the time they got shall issue in their state.

The situation of what happened in Orange county shows that even if you have a "good sheriff", things can change with an election or an appointment.

We have 10,000 or so active people on this forum, we have 25,000 or so active users. We probably may already have enough people and resources to start making a difference now.

And of course, another poll.:rolleyes:


Nicki

racer_X_123
05-31-2009, 12:02 PM
Im in, and I think that if we get organized we can make a large difference. Not only with litigation, But also if they see that more than just the plaintiffs in the cases are not the only one.

nicki
05-31-2009, 12:19 PM
SUbmitted before multiple choice.

Bottom line, should we have a seperate forum or not.

While many of us who post have knowledge of the CCW process and things like the public records, many people don't, especially people who are visiting.

Ultimately what I would like to see is we get together off the web, that we grow to larger than just a internet group.

Imagine if every county had a core group of people who were knowlegable on how CCW is supposed to work and would call the sheriffs on the carpet for having illegal policies.

The Sykes case will help alot, but even under "shall issue" by court order, there will be alot of areas of the state where games will be "Played".

If we are organized in every county, it should reduce the problem. Hell, if we do things right, we may even turn opponents into friends. In certain places of course that won't happen.

It will take about 2 to 3 years for shall issue to start being accepted as a social norm. When the streets aren't running with blood, the public controversy will go away.

Nicki

racer_X_123
05-31-2009, 12:42 PM
I think a separate forum would be cool because it seems like the 2a forum gets cluttered with UOC and CCW questions as of late.

Window_Seat
05-31-2009, 12:55 PM
There are a number of options I would like to check. Government works very slowly, but not with good strategy, especially when they blatantly break the law AND commit illegal acts at the same time. CGF works well when they strategize with time on their side, and with Nordyke, Heller and Sykes, I would say that we have time to start a dedicated CCW Reform forum with dedicated donations to the cause of CCW reform. Getting organized is always of top priority, and that's how we get ahead. I also like the idea of getting organized off the web. Meetings maybe, on an evening weekend day at different restaurant locations?

Erik.

dustoff31
05-31-2009, 12:58 PM
I voted that CCW should be dealt with in existing forums. I'm not opposed to a CCW forum, other than it appears (to me) to fragment the community.

I should think that all gun owners would have some interest in CCW reform in CA whether they want one or not.

Remember, a certain segment of the community wasn't interested in the AW ban because it didn't effect them.

A certain segment of the community didn't worry about the handgun roster because they were exempt.

And so it goes.

nicki
05-31-2009, 1:52 PM
[QUOTE][I voted that CCW should be dealt with in existing forums. I'm not opposed to a CCW forum, other than it appears (to me) to fragment the community.

I should think that all gun owners would have some interest in CCW reform in CA whether they want one or not.

Remember, a certain segment of the community wasn't interested in the AW ban because it didn't effect them.

A certain segment of the community didn't worry about the handgun roster because they were exempt.

And so it goes.
/QUOTE]

Your concerns about fragmenting the community are legitimate concerns, however I feel the CCW issue is something that is large enough that it is something that needs special attention.

One benefit is the CCW issue will actually stregthen us because it is the issue that deals with defense on a personal level.

Having local groups means we can start reaching out to non gun groups to build alliances. For instance, domestic violence support groups.

It means we can reach out to local citizen based taxpayer groups because if lawsuits have to be filed, guess who is going to foot the bill.

Local groups also mean we can start reaching out to the press. The news media are under tight time lines. A reporter in San Diego can't easily access someone like Gene or the NRA reps.

Of course the CCW groups would probably expand to other gun issues as well, but we have to start somewhere.

CCW reform is one area where we need immediate reform.

If California was shall issue, there would be probably 500 thousand to 1 million CCW permits issued versus the 40thousand we currently have.

The Sykes case will help us in the courts, what this effort will do is help us in the court of public opinion.

We can get back our rights, but unless we set ourselves up to continually guard them, they will not be secure.

The court of public opinion ultimately will choose our elected officials and who are judges are.

The future leaders are on this board, but until we grow off this board, we will have alot of chiefs and few Indians.

A quick look at the numbers shows we get alot of visitors each day, how many of those visitors would join up, become leaders if we had activities that were off the net.

Nicki

scootergmc
05-31-2009, 2:44 PM
I would vote if we had more poll options.

Liberty1
05-31-2009, 3:17 PM
Keep it as is: "Big Tent"

Californiaopencarry.org, Opencarry.org, CaliforniaCCW, and CalCCW seem to specialize well enough for those topics. How about just dedicated links to those sites?