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View Full Version : What's the best brake for 556 these days? (Solved: Where to buy PWS DNTC brake?)


Jicko
05-30-2009, 3:31 PM
*bought the DNTC*

As for DNTC, I am wondering who carrys it and where can I find it in stock....

And, what's the best brake these days? Anyone have personal experiences with these?

Surefire MB556K? (it looks long, but it actually only adds 1.8" to your barrel...)
Ops Inc? (I do have this one)
Troy brake?
PRI MSTN?
JP?
SDI Gill?

PS. PWS FSC556 is a flash hider, right? I think so.....

Ruiner
05-30-2009, 3:42 PM
Rainier Arms has it

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=603

Jicko
05-30-2009, 3:45 PM
Rainier Arms has it

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=603

Thank you! :thumbsup:

Now.... let me find those other ones.... then I can test them side by side!! :D

Hopi
05-30-2009, 3:50 PM
Which version Ops Inc. do you have?

Texas Boy
05-30-2009, 3:54 PM
And to add to the OP's question, does the FSC556 control muzzle flip as well as the "plain" DNTC?

I'm currently using a Miculek - it works great, but I'd like something that won't blind me if I ever had to use the rifle at night - but don't want to give up any control.

Jicko
05-30-2009, 3:58 PM
Which version Ops Inc. do you have?

I've the model 12th suppressor collar and brake... for the Mk12 SPR.... I am very happy with that one, but it is just pricy... and you would need a special barrel profile to use it.



And to add to the OP's question, does the FSC556 control muzzle flip as well as the "plain" DNTC?

I'm currently using a Miculek - it works great, but I'd like something that won't blind me if I ever had to use the rifle at night - but don't want to give up any control.

I think the FSC556 is a DNTC + flash hider capability.

I actually do have Miculek too.

VaderSpade
05-30-2009, 4:07 PM
I have an older (shorter) OPs Inc. I really helps with muzzle jump, but my groups are a full 6" lower in a side by side test with a flash hider.
Is this the norm? If so why? Does the muzzle jump raise the group, or does the break cost velocity???

dchang0
05-30-2009, 4:08 PM
And to add to the OP's question, does the FSC556 control muzzle flip as well as the "plain" DNTC?

Yep. You might be interested also in Todd's Tiny One, which literally is the FSC556 with the flash-reducing tines cut off. It is shorter than the original DNTC by a little bit but is just as effective.

Jicko
05-30-2009, 4:25 PM
Yep. You might be interested also in Todd's Tiny One, which literally is the FSC556 with the flash-reducing tines cut off. It is shorter than the original DNTC by a little bit but is just as effective.

Where to buy that?

Jicko
05-30-2009, 4:34 PM
I have an older (shorter) OPs Inc. I really helps with muzzle jump, but my groups are a full 6" lower in a side by side test with a flash hider.
Is this the norm? If so why? Does the muzzle jump raise the group, or does the break cost velocity???

With my 18" barrel I see no different velocity wise between a A2 FH vs my OPS INC brake. I didn't do POI test tho. XM193 comes out around 3100-3150fps.

I don't think your POI shift is due to velocity reduction.

Afterall, whenever you change muzzle device (or crown), you would probably expect POI change.

dchang0
05-30-2009, 5:09 PM
Where to buy that?

As far as I know, you can only get the TTO directly from Primary Weapons, as it was a limited run.

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=88&idcategory=2

Jicko
05-30-2009, 5:21 PM
As far as I know, you can only get the TTO directly from Primary Weapons, as it was a limited run.

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=88&idcategory=2

Except the reduction of .25", is there any other benefit of this $99 TTO vs the $63 DNTC?

(isn't it strange that you can't get DNTC on PWS?)

PS. is DNTC still one of the best brake? Is there a verdict out there which ONE is the *best*? in terms of being a brake (ie. stabilizing the muzzle.... I won't worry about sound pattern etc..)

///D
05-30-2009, 5:30 PM
Funny...I have an unused one for sale if you're interested.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=189184

capntroy
05-30-2009, 7:43 PM
The FSC556 doesn't meet the legal definition of a flash hider, here's the DOJ letter; http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/docs/FSC556.pdf

I have an FSC556 on my AR57 and my 7.62x39 XCR is shipping pre-installed with an FSC30 on it.

dchang0
05-30-2009, 7:45 PM
Except the reduction of .25", is there any other benefit of this $99 TTO vs the $63 DNTC?

(isn't it strange that you can't get DNTC on PWS?)

PS. is DNTC still one of the best brake? Is there a verdict out there which ONE is the *best*? in terms of being a brake (ie. stabilizing the muzzle.... I won't worry about sound pattern etc..)

Not really--it's just sort of an inside joke, the TTO. Otherwise, there is no benefit over the standard DNTC.

I haven't seen any quantitative/objective comparison between brakes, but most people who have tried the DNTC and FSC556 have stated that it does indeed work very well. I've tried both and like both, EXCEPT that they are loud and blasty. Would prefer a quieter brake myself.

Some people swear the Surefire is better and the big fat JP brake is the best of all, but it's still all subjective. The only fair comparison would be to swap them out on the same weapon and actually measure muzzle rise and rearward recoil.

Fate
05-30-2009, 8:43 PM
The FSC556 doesn't meet the legal definition of a flash hider, here's the DOJ letter; http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/docs/FSC556.pdf That letter is meaningless in CA. Don't use the FSC556 on a featureless build.

The OP asked about the MSTN QC brake...I love mine. Rapid fire...all on target... is sooooo nice.

munkeeboi
05-30-2009, 9:39 PM
That letter is meaningless in CA. Don't use the FSC556 on a featureless build.

The OP asked about the MSTN QC brake...I love mine. Rapid fire...all on target... is sooooo nice.

Why is the letter meaningless? can you please expand?

Jicko
05-30-2009, 10:12 PM
Some people swear the Surefire is better and the big fat JP brake is the best of all, but it's still all subjective. The only fair comparison would be to swap them out on the same weapon and actually measure muzzle rise and rearward recoil.

Now that I can find DNTC brake, there is kinda no point for me to figure out go or not go with FSC556.... I will just get the DNTC.... Rainier got the "aggressive" DNTC, that's kind interesting too...

I do want to try Surefire's MB556K, i heard a lot of rave about that brake... I know for a fact that the 762 version works VERY well... the only cons here is that the MB556K is longer than any other alternatives... (I think the Surefire brake will works and looks very well on a SPR build)

Now, to the JP, even if that will make a 223 feels like a BB gun, I will still NOT put that fugly thing on my gun.... sorrie... just not my cup of tea...

Fate
05-30-2009, 11:23 PM
Why is the letter meaningless? can you please expand?

Good thread on this : http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=184829

Here's the moneypost:

The problem is, and will be until it's changed is that the DOJ has an INCORRECT definition of what a flash suppressor is. The BATFE views flash suppressors as devices that are designed with the intent of minimizing or eliminating muzzle flash. The DOJ views it as any device that minimizes or eliminates muzzle flash. The omittion of those few words is a HUGE difference. With that, the DOJ can litterally argue that ANYTHING on the muzzle end of a gun is a flash suppressor - even muzzle brakes. The truth is that a piece of camo tape on the end of your gun COULD be argued as a flash suppressor by he DOJ. So technically, NO featureless build is safe unless it's a bare muzzle. Now the DOJ knows better than to try and nick every little detail on every little situation that comes up, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't stop them on a case by case basis. If they want you bad enough, they have "experts" that can and will say anything to go their way. You will almost be guaranteed to beat it in the end, but that doesn't mean it will be easy.

I've always said it, OLLs are not a black and white area. Yes, they are legal, but that does not mean you are absolutely immune from being arrested or charged with anything. The way I see it, if you have an OLL and the wrong cop comes along, you're going to doing some explaining anyway. Chances are they are either going to think it's illegal or not based on the fact that you have an "AR-15". If they are informed enough to be able to spot the differences between a featureless and fixed mag build, then chances are they will know the difference between the FSC556 and a flash suppressor.

I guess what I'm saying is you have more to be concerned about with the rifle itself than the flash suppressor. The guys that are actively trying to change the laws in our state advise against it, and for respect for them and what they are doing I'd stray away from it; just understand that there is NO guarantees when it comes to OLLs.

trinydex
05-31-2009, 1:18 AM
addax has the pws brakes, even the todd's tiny one.

dchang0
05-31-2009, 1:23 AM
That letter is meaningless in CA.

"Meaningless" is too strong a word. In truth, we don't know how much meaning the BATFE letter has here in Calif. It has never been tested in court (as far as we know). It may have tons of meaning, or it may have none.

To call it meaningless until it's been tested in court is the same as saying a rifle is poses no threat until after it's been fired. If an assailant were to point a rifle at you, you would be well within your rights to consider it a real threat even if he hasn't begun firing on you yet.

NeoWeird's explanation is very fair and unbiased (as usual). Put simply, he is saying that the FSC556 is in a grey area leaning towards the prohibited side. The risk is there for brave (or foolish) individuals to undertake on their own to try to defend the installation of an FSC556 on a featureless rifle. Some brave or foolhardy individual might actually win against the CADOJ, forcing an interpretation of the law and paving a path for the rest of us to follow.

glockwise2000
05-31-2009, 8:10 AM
I have several of the PWS FSC556. Though it is kind of in between Brake and Hider. It serves well it purpose as a brake but only lessens or reduces the blinding flash.

Addax
05-31-2009, 12:36 PM
We pretty much carry the entire PWS line.

http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/showSearchResults.asp?&iPageSize=20&iPageCurrent=1&pageStyle=p&priceFrom=0&priceUntil=9999999&SKU=&order=5&IDBrand=29

We have DNTC comps in stock

http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1021&idcategory=0

The DNTC is a dedicated compensator, where the FSC series also has a flash reducing capability, but per BATF, the FSC is considered a compensator first and foremost due to its primary desingn/operation

spdrcr
05-31-2009, 2:42 PM
I've heard nothing but good things about JP Enterprises Benny Cooley compensators. That's what I plan to put on my featureless build.

I really like the Surefire and am considering it for my SPR, but the cost is a bit of a deterrant. I can buy a JP Enterprises and an PWS FSC for close to the same priace as the Surefire alone. I don't know if the additional cost is really worth it.

I would love to hear comparisons from anyone who has run the Surefire as well as any other compensators such as the JP Enterprises or FSC.

Jicko
05-31-2009, 3:01 PM
I have several of the PWS FSC556. Though it is kind of in between Brake and Hider. It serves well it purpose as a brake but only lessens or reduces the blinding flash.

That's bad enough in CA DOJ's term.

Since I don't really need the flash-hiding features of the DNTC, I will just stick with the regular one....

If I am worry about muzzle flash... I will use my 24" barrel... no muzzle device, yet, there is like no muzzle flip nor it has any muzzle flash...

capntroy
05-31-2009, 4:49 PM
Good thread on this : http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=184829

Here's the moneypost:

NeoWeird's position appears to me to state that you're taking a chance having an OLL period, not that the FSC556 is a particular no-go in itself.

Jicko
06-06-2009, 6:30 AM
Any verdict on what's the BEST brake?

How's the Surefire MB556K?

I am trying to figure out which brake to "pin"... so, I kinda want to find a GOOD one...

aplinker
06-06-2009, 11:16 AM
Any verdict on what's the BEST brake?

How's the Surefire MB556K?

I am trying to figure out which brake to "pin"... so, I kinda want to find a GOOD one...

someone posted a very nice empirical test of brakes about a year ago.

It tested them by looking at how much it reduced motion vs. no brake.

I wish I could remember who posted it... IIRC there were about 3 or 4 brakes that were pretty damned close in efficiency.

Some of the ones we'd be interested in were not tested, though.

My search-fu came up blank. Maybe this will trigger someone.

OH! ha! That helped me find it... use this thread:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=141290

bombadillo
06-16-2009, 8:53 PM
I've gotta say the JP bennie cooley brake that is on my JP-15 18" upper does a really nice job. It is kind of large in diameter, but it really keeps recoil down. It also helps if you don't want somebody sitting next to you either. Its loud as all get out to the people to your left and right. It didn't seem all that loud from the shooters position.

toaster
06-16-2009, 10:39 PM
I kinda want a Tromix Shark.:chris:

http://www.tromix.com/images/sharkz1-sm.jpg


I'll probably end up putting a Vortex on my rifle though.

bombadillo
06-17-2009, 8:35 AM
God I love that brake!! The shark just looks like its going to eat you. You can watch videos of it blowing your hair back though.

J_Rock
06-17-2009, 11:11 AM
The DNTC is a good compensator but a pretty crappy brake. FYI compensator decreases muzzle jump while brakes decreases recoil. Compared to other muzzle devices out there it ranks pretty low in recoil reduction but makes up for it in flash suppression and less concussion. Personally I think people tout the DNTC as the 'best' because it looks cool.

http://healthbydon.com/comp1.jpg

http://healthbydon.com/comp2.jpg

http://healthbydon.com/comp3.jpg

http://healthbydon.com/comp4.jpg

http://healthbydon.com/comp5.jpg

Addax
06-17-2009, 6:23 PM
The PWS DNTC / FSC556 (FSC is based on the DNTC Comp) is an excellent compensator that does actually help to reduce felt recoil during shooting.

The DNTC / FSC are classifed as a compensator, not as a dedicated muzzlebrake.

Yet, the design of the DNTC/FSC does also help to reduce recoil, and as you can see in the following videos, the recoil is kept in check, and there is extremely little muzzle rise.

Here is one of my customers shooting his new Addax 16" Carbine GPU with our FSC Bulldog on it shooting 90 rounds (3 mags back to back), and the recoil looks like it is being moderated pretty well with the FSC Bulldog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSFaWaEDr_s

Here is me shooting a Short Barreld M249 SAW in Full Auto (30 rounds) with the FSC556 (again based on the DNTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuKfi6a6c70

Here is a front POV video of me test shooting a 10.5" Addax GPU with the FSC Bulldog on it in full auto. The muzzle rise is totally controlled, and the recoil is kept in check.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URRBNhyvqnU

bombadillo
06-17-2009, 6:30 PM
Addax, good stuff!!

Jicko
06-17-2009, 7:23 PM
hahahaha..... seems like what i had for like more than a couple of year IS one of the best - $35 DPMS Miculek.... it is now sitting in my tool kit... maybe I will give it another try...

Jicko
06-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Rainier Arms' version of the DNTC is one sexy brake/comp
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=666

http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/bdc34ed480759bd212085abdd7cc6523.jpg

http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/e571361b9ffe6e272b6d3ff98273adaa.jpg

damilfman
06-18-2009, 4:51 PM
^^^

Damn that thing looks medieval!!!!!!!!!!

Pvt. Cowboy
06-18-2009, 8:09 PM
I wish someone would come up with an updated version of the Fabian Brothers Muzzle Brake that were sold in the early 90s.

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/131733000/131733919/pix665934890.jpg

The AR version was lots shorter than this one. They really worked well.

daerror12
08-11-2009, 8:41 PM
I went with the surefire MB556 on one of my builds, I feel it was worth the money. I see that Larue has them for 115.00

gemini1
08-12-2009, 1:38 PM
Is the FSC 556 the only product thats works as both brake/recoil reducer and flash hider at the same time? is there any other product in the market with the same qualities?
The video demo on PWS site showing nightime shooting with the FSC556 shows no flash at all, is this just a marketing gimmick or has anyone tried it already?

http://www.primaryweapons.com/STORE/PC/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=&idproduct=9