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iliya1
05-30-2009, 3:00 PM
Hi, I've never posted here before. You guys have a VERY nice site. Thanks for letting me post a question.

Is a Springfield Armory M1A that was legally owed before the ban illegal? Looking at your flow-chart, the answer is surely yes because it has a detachable magazine AND a flash hider. However, when I asked one of the local gun shops, the guy behind the counter said that it is legal. In fact, as proof, he showed me a Ruger Mini-14 (with flash suppressor, non Ranch model) they have for sale. Now I'm really confused. Could someone explain?

Thanks!

glockman19
05-30-2009, 3:02 PM
Preban M1a's with flash hiders are. Switch out the flash hider/supressor for a " muzzle break" and it's OK.

bohoki
05-30-2009, 3:04 PM
if the ruger had a fixed mag it could have a flashhider but it was probably a muzzle brake

Librarian
05-30-2009, 5:15 PM
And you have bumped into a 'soft spot' in the law - there's no definition for 'flash hider' or 'muzzle brake', so just looking at that gadget on the muzzle of a rifle, it's hard to say what it is.

It seems to be the case that whatever the manufacturer of the gadget calls it, that's what it is. There are some general characteristics that seem to distinguish one from another, but there is no reason to give them any legal weight.

But M1As were deliberately excluded from the original Roberti-Roos considerations, so one might have to commit some pretty obvious criminal acts to have such a gun examined for that issue. If that were the case, one would have bigger problems than an unregistered SB23-type 'assault weapon'.

Cato
05-30-2009, 5:48 PM
It's legal. It's about the last really cool gun that's still legal in this state.


When I first read this post, I was like "awwwwh, ain't that cute question!" But it reminded me of my father in law who thought you had to have a special permit to buy ammo and guns of anytype.

sholling
05-30-2009, 6:04 PM
Hi, I've never posted here before. You guys have a VERY nice site. Thanks for letting me post a question.

Is a Springfield Armory M1A that was legally owed before the ban illegal? Looking at your flow-chart, the answer is surely yes because it has a detachable magazine AND a flash hider. However, when I asked one of the local gun shops, the guy behind the counter said that it is legal. In fact, as proof, he showed me a Ruger Mini-14 (with flash suppressor, non Ranch model) they have for sale. Now I'm really confused. Could someone explain?

Thanks!
Like someone else said swap out the flash hider for a muzzle brake and you're good to go. But no way no how do not want to be caught with it with a flash hider in place. Here's the whole kit (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=12576&title=M1A%20MUZZLE%20BRAKE/STABILIZER) including tools.

And you have bumped into a 'soft spot' in the law - there's no definition for 'flash hider' or 'muzzle brake', so just looking at that gadget on the muzzle of a rifle, it's hard to say what it is.

It seems to be the case that whatever the manufacturer of the gadget calls it, that's what it is. There are some general characteristics that seem to distinguish one from another, but there is no reason to give them any legal weight.

But M1As were deliberately excluded from the original Roberti-Roos considerations, so one might have to commit some pretty obvious criminal acts to have such a gun examined for that issue. If that were the case, one would have bigger problems than an unregistered SB23-type 'assault weapon'.I think California uses the old ATF formula which boiled down to a "device that could later be found to be defined legally as being more of a flash suppressor than a muzzle brake, even if marketed and sold as a muzzle brake, if incidental flash suppression was deemed to be 'significant'".

tonelar
05-30-2009, 6:05 PM
It's legal. It's about the last really cool gun that's still legal in this state.

Unless your M1A is configured like this;
http://www.aceltdusa.com/images06/customer/SOCOM16_M1A_200w.jpg
you'd have little to worry about.

garandguy10
05-30-2009, 9:34 PM
A M1A with a flash hider and a detachable magazine that is not a Registered Assault weapon is illegal in California. The DOJ has arrested people in the past for this, one time right in front of me at a gun show right after the ban went into effect. The Springfield Inc. muzzle brake or any other after market muzzle brake will make it legal. so long as you do not have a pistol grip or folding stock on it. Anything that was originally designed to or marketed as a "Flash hider", "Flash eliminator", "Flash suppressor" should be removed from any M14 type weapon that is not a Registered Assault weapon in the state of California. Bayonet lugs are O.K.

charliedontsurf334
05-30-2009, 9:47 PM
If only someone put bayonet lugs on their muzzle brakes. :(

bwiese
05-30-2009, 10:49 PM
A M1A with a flash hider and a detachable magazine that is not a Registered Assault weapon is illegal in California. The DOJ has arrested people in the past for this, one time right in front of me at a gun show right after the ban went into effect. The Springfield Inc. muzzle brake or any other after market muzzle brake will make it legal. so long as you do not have a pistol grip or folding stock on it. Anything that was originally designed to or marketed as a "Flash hider", "Flash eliminator", "Flash suppressor" should be removed from any M14 type weapon that is not a Registered Assault weapon in the state of California. Bayonet lugs are O.K.


Bingo.

Similarly, some older Mini14 GBs are illegal unless they were reg'd as AWs: even with regular stocks, they still have a flash hider.

soopafly
05-30-2009, 10:59 PM
Is a Springfield Armory M1A that was legally owed before the ban illegal? Looking at your flow-chart, the answer is surely yes because it has a detachable magazine AND a flash hider.
Your read the flowchart correctly. Act accordingly. The gun shop is flat out wrong. If that particular M1A is a RAW-registered assault weapon(separate registration to comply with the passage SB23, not DROS when rifle was purchased), then it would be legal. If it is not a RAW the flash hider must be removed NOW.

iliya1
05-31-2009, 9:44 AM
Thanks for all the advice. Interesting that some here think such a weapon would be legal.

garandguy10
05-31-2009, 11:30 AM
The gun shop can not possess, much less offer to sell any weapon that is configured as a assault weapon, unless that gun shop is a licensed assault weapon dealer, and then may only offer to sell a assault weapon to authorized LEO, Military buyers or for out of state transfer.

tonelar
05-31-2009, 11:51 AM
Thanks for all the advice. Interesting that some here think such a weapon would be legal.
No one can tell you without seeing it. Some muzzle brakes look too much like flash suppressors.
If it has a muzzle brake, it is legal.
If it has a flash hider, it would be legal if you swapped it for a brake or simply removed it.

squishyhead
05-31-2009, 1:41 PM
A hidden perk of putting on a muzzle break is reduced recoil:thumbsup:

RetroPhit
05-31-2009, 1:48 PM
sad but true, swap out the fh for a break

popeye4
05-31-2009, 3:27 PM
There are a lot of people that don't understand this. I've seen several M1a rifles at the range lately, and they have all, without exception (except mine, of course), been illegally configured with a military style flash suppressor. I clued in the last guys I saw yesterday, but I don't think they believed me. The M1a is about the simplest rifle to make legal, it seems such a shame that these folks can't understand the risk they are taking.

garandguy10
05-31-2009, 4:08 PM
Many people have RAW M1A's' and M14's that are configured as Assault weapons and some people can be jail bait.

By the way it is "Muzzle BRAKE not Muzzle BREAK" Just like your vehicle has BRAKES, not BREAKS.........