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View Full Version : The sane parts of Illinois heading in the right direction


kermit315
05-29-2009, 7:06 PM
Hey guys,

for all of those that think Illinois is right up there with New York, this should show that at least, with the exception of Chicago, the majority of Illinois has their collective heads on straight.

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x702315652/Mayor-wants-Peoria-to-be-test-city-for-concealed-carry-law?popular=true


Ardis wants Peoria to become test city for concealed-carry legislation
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By JOHN SHARP
of the Journal Star
Posted May 28, 2009 @ 07:16 PM
Last update May 28, 2009 @ 09:01 PM
PEORIA —

Mayor Jim Ardis wants to see a push for Peoria to become a pilot city for statewide concealed-carry legislation that would allow people to carry guns in a responsible manner, he said Thursday.

Ardis wants to see legislation passed in Springfield allowing Peoria to enact an ordinance permitting citizens the right to carry a concealed weapon.

His comments come one day after a gas station attendant was shot and killed in the East Bluff and a shot was discharged on Newman Golf Course during a botched robbery.

"I'm trying to see if there is an opportunity for (the General Assembly) to enact a concealed-carry ordinance in the city of Peoria for a three to four year test to see (if there is) a reduction in these types of crimes," Ardis said.

Getting concealed-carry legislation passed in Illinois, however, is another matter, because the politically charged issue in Springfield has often met resistance by state lawmakers, particularly those from the Chicago area.

There are two strong but opposing beliefs on the issue: Opponents believe more gun ownership does little to prevent crime, while proponents point to statistics in other states with concealed-carry laws showing that gun violence goes down.

But Ardis' pitch in setting up Peoria as a pilot for concealed-carry regulation in Illinois is something unique, one anti-gun official said.

"This sounds like it would be a little bit of a new idea," said Tom Mannard, executive director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence. "I think you have to gauge the public sentiment on this."

Ardis said any type of local concealed-carry ordinance would be measured and responsible. He said violations to it would be met with "tough penalties."

"It's not a matter of everyone goes out and gets guns," Ardis added. "It's a very measured and safe process."

Ardis has local support for it, although state Sen. Dale Risinger, R-Peoria, and state Sen. Dave Koehler, D-Peoria, are skeptical about any pro-gun proposal that might be met with resistance by Chicago area politicians.

"They don't get too excited about gun bills in Chicago," Risinger said.

Risinger said he is aware of the mayor's interests, but that the state's arm of the National Rifle Association has chosen in the past to pursue concealed-carry legislation on a statewide basis instead of through pilot programs.

"For some reason, they think there is a better chance to do it statewide," Risinger said.

A representative with the Illinois State Rifle Association could not be reached for comment.

Illinois and Wisconsin are the only two states in the U.S. with no type of a concealed-carry law.

Steve Brown, spokesman for Illinois House Speaker Michael Madigan, said it likely won't happen this year. He also said it's unlikely there would be legislative support for a "helter-skelter" approach to concealed-carry, establishing laws different in one town versus another.

Ardis said he doesn't expect a proposal to get introduced in Springfield until, at the earliest, the Legislature's November veto session.

Ardis said he has support from local law enforcement on moving forward with the issue, including Peoria County Sheriff Michael McCoy. The sheriff said he is supportive of concealed-carry if there is proper education and background checks in place before someone is allowed to possess a gun.

State's Attorney Kevin Lyons, however, disagrees that Peoria or any Illinois community should serve a pilot program for concealed-carry.

"Neither of the words 'concealed' nor 'carry' should give a community any greater sense of peace when it comes to loaded firearms," Lyons said. "No workable plan has yet been discovered that puts guns in the hands of law-abiding persons to the exclusion of the mentally unstable or the angry malcontent."



BTW, please hit the poll and lets help them out a little bit.

ETA: You can tell by the article the ones that came from the area and the ones that came from Chicago. Those people are the reason why the rest of us hate Chicago, they run over the rest of the state like a steam roller based on population base.

CCWFacts
05-29-2009, 9:59 PM
There are two different ideas on this: one is to let localities go their own way (Peoria gets it, Chicago doesn't). The other is to go all-or-nothing, for the whole state. There are good arguments for both. But in this case I lean towards the NRA's view of going for the whole state or nothing.

It will help them when Wisconsin finally gets its shall-issue bill passed (it will happen sooner or later).

The post-Heller court cases will also help them. And it's too early to know what's going to happen with Sykes but that could really help them also.

Letting the state have different policies in different localities could muddle up court challenges. A state-wide no-issue policy is the cleanest thing to attack.

dfletcher
05-29-2009, 11:40 PM
Illinois has the same problem we have. Most of the state, with the exception of the Chicago area, is pretty sane. I spent 3 years as a Freshman at SIU Carbondale, running around the middle and southern part of the state, and it's fairly conservative and progun. Unfortunately population counts more than square miles.

I think having local carry laws is an ackowledgement, unfortunately, that the power of the Chicago politicians in blocking statewide carry can not be overcome by the rest of the state.

yellowfin
05-30-2009, 8:02 AM
From what I have read, most of the Illini would like to see local carry law passed so that it can start happening now rather than waiting for years or even decades before the Chicago political monster is finally put down. Also having local examples will put more pressure on the politicians by people demanding the same rights as others within the same state. The all or nothing approach makes it too easy for them to say that zero carry rights is at least fair to everyone because it is "equal" in theory.

kermit315
05-30-2009, 8:06 AM
There are two different ideas on this: one is to let localities go their own way (Peoria gets it, Chicago doesn't). The other is to go all-or-nothing, for the whole state. There are good arguments for both. But in this case I lean towards the NRA's view of going for the whole state or nothing.

It will help them when Wisconsin finally gets its shall-issue bill passed (it will happen sooner or later).

The post-Heller court cases will also help them. And it's too early to know what's going to happen with Sykes but that could really help them also.

Letting the state have different policies in different localities could muddle up court challenges. A state-wide no-issue policy is the cleanest thing to attack.

Personally, I think that Peoria is trying to get it started as a pilot program if for no other reason than to light the fires of thought and be able to say "Look, it works here, it will work everywhere in the state". Peoria is the 5th largest city in the state, and is having major violence problems. I dont agree with city by city either, but if it is a pilot program, you wont get the whole state to buy off on it, simply because of chicago. Outside of chicago and the suburbs, you have peoria, then to a lesser extent, champaign-urbana. So, I think a live fire (haha, pun intended) of a working ccw program, assuming its modeled off of a good program in another state (like VT or AK, yeah right), it has a chance to be an excellent example to the rest of the state, and might be enough to get chicago onboard if played right (not the electorate, but the actual people as chicago has one of the worst crime rates in the country).

Just my .02

CCWFacts
05-30-2009, 8:24 AM
Personally, I think that Peoria is trying to get it started as a pilot program if for no other reason than to light the fires of thought and be able to say "Look, it works here, it will work everywhere in the state".

That makes sense, but...

It's way past time for pilot programs. We've got ~40 other states that have pilot programs, including states with big diverse cities with crime problems that are in various ways comparable to Chicago. If shall-issue works in Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland, then no one can argue that there's some je-ne-sais-quoi that Chicago has that makes it non-comparable to those other places (at least in terms of public safety issues).

Wisconsin will, sooner or later, because IL's "pilot program" also.

The danger with letting IL go one locality at a time is that it could make the future lawsuit there more complicated and it could mean that Chicago will have a hard time ever getting it.

kermit315
05-30-2009, 8:34 AM
That makes sense, but...

It's way past time for pilot programs. We've got ~40 other states that have pilot programs, including states with big diverse cities with crime problems that are in various ways comparable to Chicago. If shall-issue works in Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland, then no one can argue that there's some je-ne-sais-quoi that Chicago has that makes it non-comparable to those other places (at least in terms of public safety issues).

Wisconsin will, sooner or later, because IL's "pilot program" also.

The danger with letting IL go one locality at a time is that it could make the future lawsuit there more complicated and it could mean that Chicago will have a hard time ever getting it.

The problem is trying to get the rest of the state onboard enough to be able to get around the chicago politicians. That is going to mean a live fire test that chicago cant stop, so Peoria is the perfect venue. I mean, have you seen what has been coming out of chicago recently?

While it may not be the best road, I do think it has a chance to work, and definitely cant hurt anything. It seems that either the pilot program would end after a set period of time, use the statistics to craft a statewide bill, then the whole state goes live under one program would be a good way to go, and there is nothing indicating that it wont go that way. in fact, this quote:

Mayor Jim Ardis wants to see a push for Peoria to become a pilot city for statewide concealed-carry legislation that would allow people to carry guns in a responsible manner, he said Thursday. would support, as well as the rest of the article, that they just want peoria to be a test bed that chicago cant touch, then go live state wide, which is the ultimate goal. Incorporation and a few lawsuits could hurry the process on an alternate path, while this is still working, then the pilot just becomes moot.