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HK Dave
05-29-2009, 4:24 PM
My wife has fallen in love with AR15s... God help me... ;)

She'd like an ultra light build.

Any suggestions on an ultra light upper?

I was thinking something with a 14.5" barrel, but which upper is great quality yet ultra light.

Perhaps DD rails... anyone make lighter rails that are high quality?

I'm thinking the lightest BUIS i can find... or perhaps none at all... maybe no A2 front sight.

Eotech XPS2 for sure... unless there is a lighter alternative that is just as good?

She does want a collapsible stock so a skeleton like stock is a no go.

Help me fellow calgunners! The sooner I build it the sooner i can go back to my own projects. ;) Woe is me!

Arteel
05-29-2009, 4:29 PM
I'm waiting to get my hands on a 14.5" lmt or bcm for my GF. She's always complaining on how my guns are heavy, so I'm in your boat right now. :)

HK Dave
05-29-2009, 4:34 PM
Hehe, my problem is... she picked up my Daniel Defense M4... which is very light and said "oooh.. can i have this?"

....

domokun
05-29-2009, 4:58 PM
Hehe, my problem is... she picked up my Daniel Defense M4... which is very light and said "oooh.. can i have this?"

....

I think you already know the answer to that question. :p Just build yourself a new one and give her that one? :eek:

missiontrails
05-29-2009, 5:10 PM
Bushmaster lightweight carbine upper, Any lower, Ace short Skeleton Stock. Does she need a rail? If so, DD is one of the lightest (Omega), and it is a narrow horizontal profile. Mid-length with government profile might be better for recoil pulse though, which might be more important than weight.

aplinker
05-29-2009, 5:17 PM
There's a line between light and too light - meaning the recoil actually starts to show up. About 5# is just right.

What you want to do is focus on making the rifle balance well.

I have two "favorites:"

1.) 14.5" lightweight profile with a DD lite rail 9.0, fixed front sight, permanent brake
2.) 16" Bushmaster pencil barrel, DD 9.0, low profile adjustable gas block, lightweight carrier.

You can, of course, mix&match from the above, and each has its advantages/disadvantages.

The optic of choice is an Aimpoint Micro and the stock of choice is a CTR.

Folding buis weigh nothing if you want to add them.

deez
05-29-2009, 6:38 PM
My "go to" upper build, which I wanted to be extremely lightweight:

16" Colt pencil barrel
A3 upper receiver
DD 12.0 Lite
PRI low profile gas block (talk about low profile, this thing is tiny!)
Troy sights (front & back)

Californio
05-29-2009, 6:46 PM
My "go to" upper build, which I wanted to be extremely lightweight.

16" Colt pencil barrel
A3 upper receiver
DD 12.0 Lite
PRI low profile gas block (talk about low profile, this thing is tiny!)
Troy sights (front & back)

Is that a carbine or mid-length gas system?

JeffM
05-29-2009, 6:47 PM
There's a line between light and too light - meaning the recoil actually starts to show up. About 5# is just right.

What you want to do is focus on making the rifle balance well.

I have two "favorites:"

1.) 14.5" lightweight profile with a DD lite rail 9.0, fixed front sight, permanent brake
2.) 16" Bushmaster pencil barrel, DD 9.0, low profile adjustable gas block, lightweight carrier.

You can, of course, mix&match from the above, and each has its advantages/disadvantages.

The optic of choice is an Aimpoint Micro and the stock of choice is a CTR.

Folding buis weigh nothing if you want to add them.

This is similar to how I'm setting up mine.

But I have a factory Colt SP1 16" upper that I'm keeping stock. CRT stock, and it should be a super-lite KISS carbine. I don't need a rail, but I might add a goose-neck mount for an optic.

deez
05-29-2009, 6:48 PM
Is that a carbine or mid-length gas system?

carbine system

(with F/A BCG and 9mm buffer)

old-trapper
05-29-2009, 9:35 PM
I would go colt 16 not 14.5 skinny,yhm upper,magpul moe handguards, A2 sight no handle...I just did one for my 13 year old and he loved it ..it is a 1 hand gun for a 13 year old. So the wife should approve. When I had it headspaced all the guys loved it..it was hard to get it away from them

Variable2147
05-29-2009, 10:21 PM
if you dont need rails on the handguard, are the regular plastic handguards the lightest?

i like magpul moe also but need midlength.

ive been wondering for a while and this thread seems the perfect place to ask.

aplinker
05-30-2009, 3:55 AM
if you dont need rails on the handguard, are the regular plastic handguards the lightest?

i like magpul moe also but need midlength.

ive been wondering for a while and this thread seems the perfect place to ask.

I'm not sure what your question is asking. The lightest possible if a DD Lite rail. It's lighter than the delta ring + plastic handguard.

If you're running a delta set-up, the plastic handguards are about 0.5-1oz lighter than most of the aluminum handguards.

THT
05-30-2009, 6:31 AM
CMMG pencil barrel is a big weight savings as it removes weight from point farthest from the body.

mls343
05-30-2009, 6:53 AM
Build her a KISS model using a 14.5 barrel, stock plastic hand guards and standard M4 buttstock. Use a pop up BUIS and the whole thing should come in at about 7 lbs. Simple, light, and effective. And, you get to keep the DD!

bombadillo
05-30-2009, 7:27 AM
Bushy Superlight. I just had and sold one and the thing was almost too light. Felt like an airsoft gun.

HK Dave
05-30-2009, 9:22 AM
I have two "favorites:"

1.) 14.5" lightweight profile with a DD lite rail 9.0, fixed front sight, permanent brake
2.) 16" Bushmaster pencil barrel, DD 9.0, low profile adjustable gas block, lightweight carrier.

You can, of course, mix&match from the above, and each has its advantages/disadvantages.

The optic of choice is an Aimpoint Micro and the stock of choice is a CTR.

Folding buis weigh nothing if you want to add them.

I think a 14.5" barrel with perm brake and DD lite rails is the ticket... anyone know if there is a major weight variance between manufacturers? Obviously don't want an HBAR but is there a big difference in weight between a standard barrel and lightweight barrel? Enough to be worth it?

That Aimpoint micro is a great idea... totally forgot it existed... I wonder what the weight difference is between it and the Eotech XPS... i should look it up.

Thanks for your responses guys! :D

Jicko
05-30-2009, 9:32 AM
16" barrel give you a lot more flexibility, and there isn't noticable different between 14.5 and 16 barrel.

Something hard to get, but a Colt 6940 upper is plenty light...

deez
05-30-2009, 10:11 AM
I think a 14.5" barrel with perm brake and DD lite rails is the ticket... anyone know if there is a major weight variance between manufacturers? Obviously don't want an HBAR but is there a big difference in weight between a standard barrel and lightweight barrel? Enough to be worth it?

That Aimpoint micro is a great idea... totally forgot it existed... I wonder what the weight difference is between it and the Eotech XPS... i should look it up.

Thanks for your responses guys! :D

Did a quick google search and found this chart for weights on Bushmaster barrels:

14.5" M4_____________2.0 lbs
14.5" M4AK__________ 2.2
14.5" M4MY__________ 2.2
14.5" M4AM (phantom)_ 2.2
14.5" M4IZ____________2.2
16" M4 Dissipator______2.3
16" Superlight________ 1.9
16" M4_______________2.2
20" A2 (govt profile)_____2.5

Upper Receivers:

A1 Type - 0.7 lbs
A2 Type - 0.8
A3/V Match - 0.6
A3 Type Removable Carry Handle - 0.6

The Aimpoint Micro T1/H1 weighs 3.0 oz without mount.

trinydex
05-30-2009, 1:56 PM
build her a magpul moe carbine that's 14.5 with a permanent dtnc brake

Arteel
05-30-2009, 2:18 PM
Dont forget if you get a rail, you will most likely be adding even more weight with add ons like a FVG or rail covers.

grunz
05-30-2009, 2:31 PM
I'm thinking of a similar build.

The lightest Free Float rail I have found is the Troy TRX Extreme.

http://troyind.com/TRXrails.html

The 9 inch will be lighter than standard plastic handguards plus you can mount a light BUIS like the MBUS up front too. The Standard A2 sight and gasblock weigh some 5 ounces I think - this rail weighs less than 7 ounces....

Another weight saver could be the polymer Cavalry Arms MKII receiver

http://www.cavalryarms.com/commercial.html

HK Dave
05-31-2009, 6:38 PM
I was thinking Troy as I hear it's lighter then Daniel Defense... the only thing it lacks is a proper way of guarding against heat... but for my wife who doesn't shoot very fast and very much I thought it would be great.

Showed her... she said it's ugly. LOL

I think I'm going to have to end up with either a 14.5 inch or 16" inch barrel with a DD lite rail...

So i'm thinking DD, LMT, BCM... whichever i find first... 9" DD Lite Rail, no BUIS, Eotech XPS and Magpul Stock. Best balance I think.

All black... she says she will put star stickers on it once i'm done.

....

trinydex
05-31-2009, 7:25 PM
i don't know how the troy could weight less, it doesn't have that many holes.

HK Dave
05-31-2009, 7:27 PM
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-12630110006743_2054_26960743

The new troy extreme does. :)

trinydex
05-31-2009, 7:32 PM
oooh yeah, but in that case the jp handguard has lots of lightening slots too. sorry i also agree with your wife, that hg is ugly as a water buffalo's hairy asscrack.

HK Dave
05-31-2009, 8:56 PM
lol :D

Jicko
05-31-2009, 9:55 PM
if you don't need FF handguard... maybe a MOE handguard will work... it is definitely light.. and cheap :thumbsup:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/picture-24-6.png

grunz
05-31-2009, 10:08 PM
I doubt a MOE is much lighter than a standard handguard. It does look awesome though. :)

I would think a FF handguard would be useful for a thin pencil barrel, no?

Q
06-01-2009, 2:57 AM
My wife has fallen in love with AR15s... God help me... ;)

She'd like an ultra light build.

Any suggestions on an ultra light upper?

I was thinking something with a 14.5" barrel, but which upper is great quality yet ultra light.


build a retro. :cool:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n32/qbertquartz2/m16a1carbineakacoltm6549i3.jpg

docsmileyface
06-01-2009, 7:38 AM
adding things like rifle-length rails sort of take from the lightness....

If I was going to put any rifles on a carbine length to keep the weight down, I'd stick with 7" carbine lengthed rails.

14.5" pencil barrel with Phantom/Vortex/whatever, low profile gas block, DD 7.0L, your micro eotech, and one of those ACE skeleton stocks should be a pretty light build though like people have mentioned the MOE should be a pretty good light weight handguard if you don't NEED a rail system.

HK Dave
06-01-2009, 8:08 AM
My mistake, I meant 7" rails. ;) But the MOE is certainly a good idea... although I think she likes DD.

Variable2147
06-01-2009, 10:56 AM
I'm not sure what your question is asking. The lightest possible if a DD Lite rail. It's lighter than the delta ring + plastic handguard.

If you're running a delta set-up, the plastic handguards are about 0.5-1oz lighter than most of the aluminum handguards.

thanks that answers my question perfectly.

aplinker
06-01-2009, 5:33 PM
Barrel weight is governed by the profile

Notice the weight differences are relatively small, but the feel of each will be rather different, as where the weight is can be just as, if not more important a factor.

The reason I suggest lightweight is because it's plenty light and still retains most of your accuracy. It also keeps things light at the end of the barrel, unlike the gov't profiles.

Shortening the barrel reduces muzzle weight.


adding things like rifle-length rails sort of take from the lightness....

If I was going to put any rifles on a carbine length to keep the weight down, I'd stick with 7" carbine lengthed rails.

14.5" pencil barrel with Phantom/Vortex/whatever, low profile gas block, DD 7.0L, your micro eotech, and one of those ACE skeleton stocks should be a pretty light build though like people have mentioned the MOE should be a pretty good light weight handguard if you don't NEED a rail system.

having a longer handguard is nice for other reasons, though - it affords a more stable grip. Also, the stock FSB isn't exactly "light" and can be swapped for something low-profile and end up ahead.

deez
06-01-2009, 6:04 PM
...having a longer handguard is nice for other reasons, though - it affords a more stable grip.

A longer HG also provides more protection from a hot barrel!

HK Dave
06-06-2009, 1:56 PM
Thanks for all your help!

My wife will soon be building a...

-LMT 14.5" Upper with Pinned Vortex Hider
-BCM Bolt Group/ BCM Charging Handle
-Daniel Defense 7" Lite Rail
-Magpul Back up Sights
-MOE Mil Stock Kit with heavy buffer
-RRA LPK
-MOE Pistol Grip
-Magpul 10/20 Mag

All that's left is an Eotech XPS2 and a proper sling.

missiontrails
06-06-2009, 2:06 PM
My wife won't complain about 1lb. more or less, but she will complain about "kick", as she calls it. =MID-LENGTH

HK Dave
06-06-2009, 2:09 PM
I thought about that so I put in a heavy buffer and auto bolt to lighten that kick... as the rifle stands right now, there isn't much weight in the front so there will probably some additional recoil but she thinks the kick is "fun".

Hopefully I made the right choices... guess i'll learn soon enough... and if it "kicks" too hard... she'll just end up with my DDM4... which at this point actually turned out to be cheaper then this build of hers. lol

aplinker
06-06-2009, 2:24 PM
Unless your wife wants to load her rails with junk or she can shoot X-ring all day long, just go for the MOE handguard. Weight won't be severely affected and you'll save about $300.

I, too, would go midlength if I could. Look into a Sabre 14.5" mid-length, or get Randall to cut down a BCM... heck, he could even profile it lighter.

Thanks for all your help!

My wife will soon be building a...

-LMT 14.5" Upper with Pinned Vortex Hider
-BCM Bolt Group/ BCM Charging Handle
-Daniel Defense 7" Lite Rail
-Magpul Back up Sights
-MOE Mil Stock Kit with heavy buffer
-RRA LPK
-MOE Pistol Grip
-Magpul 10/20 Mag

All that's left is an Eotech XPS2 and a proper sling.

missiontrails
06-06-2009, 2:28 PM
Mark's Armory has had many CMMG 14.5" Mid-lengths for $660.

missiontrails
06-06-2009, 2:31 PM
I would bet that the Noveske N4 Recce Basic that I just bought from Rainier ($1630) would be light enough for a woman to have fun with.

HK Dave
06-06-2009, 2:44 PM
Unless your wife wants to load her rails with junk or she can shoot X-ring all day long, just go for the MOE handguard. Weight won't be severely affected and you'll save about $300.

I, too, would go midlength if I could. Look into a Sabre 14.5" mid-length, or get Randall to cut down a BCM... heck, he could even profile it lighter.

I showed her the MOE Handguard... explained the benefits of it... and the fact that it's $30...

Her response "EEEEWW ITS SO UGLY... Can I please have Daniel Defense or Troy?"

I opted for DD since it's lighter.

Her rail will have only one thing on it, a vertical foregrip.

missiontrails
06-06-2009, 2:48 PM
Agree, the MOE handguard is damn ugly, it just looks like it doesn't belong there. I had one on a LMT carbine upper when those guards first came out, and it did not feel that impressive either.

TZL
06-06-2009, 3:47 PM
i'm currently building a superlight featureless on 16" SS fluted, micro gas block

currently using a DD omega, but going to be switching to a carbon fiber free float tube, since it going to be featureless, don't need rails for VFG etc....

http://www.hiperform.com/hand-guards.htm

or

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/clk750.htm


using an ACE ultralight fixed stock, 142 g + tube etc

http://riflestocks.com/catalog/images/ARUL.jpg

trinydex
06-06-2009, 4:32 PM
Thanks for all your help!

My wife will soon be building a...

-LMT 14.5" Upper with Pinned Vortex Hider
-BCM Bolt Group/ BCM Charging Handle
-Daniel Defense 7" Lite Rail
-Magpul Back up Sights
-MOE Mil Stock Kit with heavy buffer
-RRA LPK
-MOE Pistol Grip
-Magpul 10/20 Mag

All that's left is an Eotech XPS2 and a proper sling.

yeah right, that's for you dude... :P

HK Dave
06-06-2009, 10:03 PM
Hey Trinydex! I take offense to that! It is SO not for me!

Ok ok... so maybe it is SORT of for me... but its for my wife ultimately!

trinydex
06-06-2009, 10:33 PM
*wink wink*