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pullnshoot25
05-29-2009, 1:44 PM
So if a bunch of state parks are closing, what does that do for the carry laws if you decide to visit said state park? Even better, will one even be able to go there at all?

Fjold
05-29-2009, 1:52 PM
The gates will be locked.

AaronHorrocks
05-29-2009, 2:16 PM
Well, that's not going to work. What about all those people and ranchers that need to drive through state parks to access thier homes and thier property?

AKman
05-29-2009, 2:23 PM
State Parks are generally self-supporting operations (they cost money to operate but generate substantial revenue). This is the state's way of saying Thank (F_ck) You for your vote in the "Special Election." I'll be visiting my local state park on a regular basis and enjoying it that much better now that its closed (which it is every time it rains and before 7:00 AM).

bulgron
05-29-2009, 2:38 PM
What state parks are closing? I must have missed this news story.

curtisfong
05-29-2009, 2:43 PM
What state parks are closing? I must have missed this news story.

Up to 220 of them, if it goes into effect.

dixieD
05-29-2009, 2:57 PM
"California spends roughly $400 million a year running 279 state parks and beaches, with roughly a third of the money coming from the state general fund. The rest comes from user fees, which account for slightly more than a quarter of the revenue; bond funds; gasoline taxes; federal money; and other sources." - from the Huffington Post (I know I know but it was the first thing on google)

The article also says the system sees 80M visitors per year. So what is the problem? Charge $5/visitor and be done with it. Why are bond funds, gasoline taxes, federal taxes and other monies being used?

From this article it seems that nearly a half billion could be cut from the state budget if they start charging a flat rate of $5 per park user/visit.

AKman
05-29-2009, 3:02 PM
"California spends roughly $400 million a year running 279 state parks and beaches, with roughly a third of the money coming from the state general fund. The rest comes from user fees, which account for slightly more than a quarter of the revenue; bond funds; gasoline taxes; federal money; and other sources." - from the Huffington Post (I know I know but it was the first thing on google)

The article also says the system sees 80M visitors per year. So what is the problem? Charge $5/visitor and be done with it. Why are bond funds, gasoline taxes, federal taxes and other monies being used?

From this article it seems that nearly a half billion could be cut from the state budget if they start charging a flat rate of $5 per park user/visit.

My understanding is that the state raids some of the money generated by the parks and uses other revenue sources to run the parks, like federal grants and other taxes that have limits on how they can be spent. These revenue swaps make money available to other pet projects that would otherwise go unfunded.

dixieD
05-29-2009, 3:05 PM
My understanding is that the state raids some of the money generated by the parks and uses other revenue sources to run the parks, like federal grants and other taxes that have limits on how they can be spent. These revenue swaps make money available to other pet projects that would otherwise go unfunded.

Not letting them go unfunded is precisely the problem. I long for a clear revenue - expenditure path in state and federal government. We need to get away from the money laundering practice.

Ike Arumba
05-29-2009, 3:07 PM
The article also says the system sees 80M visitors per year. So what is the problem? Charge $5/visitor and be done with it. Why are bond funds, gasoline taxes, federal taxes and other monies being used?

A Yellowstone Park ranger once told me, by way of explaining the poorly maintained roads, that although the park takes in more than enough fees to run and maintain itself, those fees must be remitted to Washington, and then appropriated back to the park. Congress just dumps the fees into the general fund and then starves the park for operating funds. I wouldn't put it past California to do the same.

rolo
05-29-2009, 3:08 PM
So for the folks who are upset about this, would you mind sharing some of your favorite state parks in a thread in the Outdoors section? We've already got a bit of a start, but I don't have much experience with parks in the southland.

larryb
05-29-2009, 3:53 PM
Here is a list of state parks slated for closure. This whole thing really sucks as there are more than a few parks that i like to visit with the kids on a regular basis

1. Leo Carrillo State Park.

2. Los Angeles State Historic Park.

3. Los Encinos State Historic Park.

4. Malibu Creek State Park.

5. Malibu Lagoon State Beach.

6. Pio Pico State Historic Park.

7. Point Mugu State Park.

8. Rio de Los Angeles State Park.

9. Robert H. Meyer Memorial State Beach.

10. Santa Susana Pass State Historic Park.

11. Topanga State Park.

12. Verdugo Mountains.

13. Will Rogers State Historic Park.

14. California State Capitol Museum.

15. Governor’s Mansion State Historic Park

16. Leland Stanford Mansion State Historic Park.

17. Railtown 1897 State Historic Park.

18. State Indian Museum State Historic Park.

19. Sutter’s Fort State Historic Park.

20. Bethany Reservoir State Recreation Area.

21. Calaveras Big Trees State Park.

22. California Mining & Mineral Museum.

23. Caswell Memorial State Park.

24. Columbia State Historic Park.

25. George J. Hatfield State Recreation Area.

26. Great Valley Grasslands State Park.

27. Indian Grinding Rock State Historic Park.

28. McConnell State Recreation Area.

29. Carpinteria State Beach.

30. Chumash Painted Cave State Historic Park.

31. El Capitan State Beach.

32. Emma Wood State Beach.

33. Gaviota State Park.

34. La Purisima Mission State Historic Park.

35. McGrath State Beach.

36. Point Sal State Beach.

37. Refugio State Beach.

38. San Buenaventura State Beach.

39. Anza-Borrego Desert State Park.

40. Cuyamaca Rancho State Park.

41. Indio Hills Palms.

42. Palomar Mountain State Park.

43. Picacho State Recreation Area.

44. Salton Sea State Recreation Area.

45. Annadel State Park.

46. Bale Grist Mill State Historic Park.

47. Benicia Capitol State Historic Park.

48. Benicia State Recreation Area.

49. Bothe-Napa Valley State Park.

50. Candlestick Point State Recreation Area.

51. East Shore State Park State Shoreline.

52. Jack London State Historic Park.

53. John Marsh Home State Historic Park.

54. Mount Diablo State Park.

55. Petaluma Adobe State Historic Park.

56. Robert Louis Stevenson State Park.

57. Sonoma State Historic Park.

58. Sugarloaf Ridge State Park.

59. Brannan Island State Recreation Area.

60. Delta Meadows.

61. Folsom Powerhouse State Historic Park.

62. Franks Tract State Recreation Area.

63. Marshall Gold Discovery State Historic Park

64. Stone Lake.

65. California Citrus State Historic Park.

66. Chino Hills State Park.

67. Mount San Jacinto State Park.

68. San Timoteo Canyon.

69. Wildwood Canyon.

70. Angel Island State Park.

71. China Camp State Park.

72. Mount Tamalpais State Park.

73. Olompali State Historic Park.

74. Samuel P. Taylor State Park.

75. Tomales Bay State Park.

76. Caspar Headlands State Beach.

77. Caspar Headlands State Natural Reserve.

78. Greenwood State Beach.

79. Hendy Woods State Park.

80. Jug Handle State Natural Reserve.

81. MacKerricher State Park.

82. Mailliard Redwoods State Natural Reserve.

83. Manchester State Park.

84. Mendocino Headlands State Park.

85. Montgomery Woods State Natural Reserve.

86. Navarro River Redwoods State Park.

87. Point Cabrillo Light Station.

88. Russian Gulch State Park.

89. Schooner Gulch State Beach.

90. Van Damme State Park.

91. Westport-Union Landing State Beach.

92. Andrew Molera State Park.

93. Carmel River State Beach.

94. Fort Ord Dunes State Park.

95. Fremont Peak State Park.

96. Garrapata State Park.

97. Hatton Canyon.

98. Henry W. Coe State Park.

99. John Little State Natural Reserve.

100. Julia Pfeiffer Burns State Park.

101. Marina State Beach.

102. Monterey State Beach.

103. Monterey State Historic Park.

104. Moss Landing State Beach.

105. Pfeiffer Big Sur State Park.

106. Point Lobos Ranch.

107. Point Lobos State Natural Reserve.

108. Point Sur State Historic Park.

109. Salinas River State Beach.

110. San Juan Bautista State Historic Park.

111. Zmudowski State Beach.

112. Admiral William Standley State Recreation Area.

113. Azalea State Natural Reserve.

114. Benbow Lake State Recreation Area.

115. Del Norte Coast Redwoods State Park.

116. Fort Humboldt State Historic Park.

117. Grizzly Creek Redwoods State Park.

118. Harry A. Merlo State Recreation Area.

119. Humboldt Lagoons State Park.

120. Humboldt Redwoods State Park.

121. Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park.

122. John B. Dewitt Redwoods State Natural Reserve.

123. Little River State Beach.

124. Patrick’s Point State Park.

125. Pelican State Beach.

126. Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park.

127. Reynolds Wayside Campground.

128. Richardson Grove State Park.

129. Sinkyone Wilderness State Park.

130. Smithe Redwoods State Natural Reserve.

131. Standish-Hickey State Recreation Area.

132. Tolowa Dunes State Park.

133. Trinidad State Beach.

134. Ahjumawi Lava Springs State Park.

135. Anderson Marsh State Historic Park.

136. Bidwell Mansion State Historic Park.

137. Bidwell-Sacramento River State Park.

138. Castle Crags State Park.

139. Colusa-Sacramento River State Recreation Area.

140. McArthur-Burney Falls Memorial State Park.

141. Shasta State Historic Park.

142. Weaverville Joss House State Historic Park.

143. William B. Ide Adobe State Historic Park.

144. Woodson Bridge State Recreation Area.

145. Pismo State Beach.

146. Armstrong Redwoods State Natural Reserve.

147. Austin Creek State Recreation Area.

148. Fort Ross State Historic Park.

149. Kruse Rhododendron State Natural Reserve.

150. Salt Point State Park.

151. Sonoma Coast State Park.

152. Border Field State Park.

153. Carlsbad State Beach.

154. San Pasqual Battlefield State Historic Park.

155. Silver Strand State Beach.

156. Torrey Pines State Beach.

157. Torrey Pines State Natural Reserve.

158. Estero Bluffs State Park.

159. Hearst San Simeon State Park.

160. Limekiln State Park.

161. Los Osos Oaks State Natural Reserve.

162. MontaIna de Oro State Park.

163. Morro Bay State Park.

164. Morro Strand State Beach.

165. William Randolph Hearst Memorial State Beach.

166. AIno Nuevo State Natural Reserve.

167. AIno Nuevo State Park.

168. Bean Hollow State Beach.

169. Big Basin Redwoods State Park.

170. Burleigh H. Murray Ranch.

171. Butano State Park.

172. Castle Rock State Park.

173. Castro Adobe (Rancho San Andres).

174. Gray Whale Cove State Beach.

175. Half Moon Bay State Beach.

176. Henry Cowell Redwoods State Park.

177. Lighthouse Field State Beach.

178. Manresa State Beach.

179. Montara State Beach.

180. Natural Bridges State Beach.

181. New Brighton State Beach.

182. Pescadero State Beach.

183. Point Montara Light Station.

184. Pomponio State Beach.

185. Portola Redwoods State Park.

186. San Gregorio State Beach.

187. Santa Cruz Mission State Historic Park.

188. Seacliff State Beach.

189. Sunset State Beach.

190. The Forest of Nisene Marks State Park.

191. Thornton State Beach.

192. Twin Lakes State Beach.

193. Wilder Ranch State Park.

194. Bodie State Historic Park.

195. Burton Creek State Park.

196. D.L. Bliss State Park.

197. Donner Memorial State Park.

198. Ed Z’berg Sugar Pine Point State Park.

199. Emerald Bay State Park.

200. Empire Mine State Historic Park.

201. Grover Hot Springs State Park.

202. Kings Beach State Recreation Area.

203. Lake Valley State Recreation Area.

204. Malakoff Diggins State Historic Park.

205. Mono Lake Tufa State Natural Reserve.

206. Plumas-Eureka State Park.

207. South Yuba River State Park.

208. Tahoe State Recreation Area.

209. Ward Creek.

210. Washoe Meadows State Park.

211. Antelope Valley California Poppy Reserve.

212. Antelope Valley Indian Museum.

213. Arthur B. Ripley Desert Woodland State Park.

214. Colonel Allensworth State Historic Park.

215. Fort Tejon State Historic Park.

216. Providence Mountains State Recreation Area.

217. Red Rock Canyon State Park.

218. Saddleback Butte State Park.

219. Tomo-Kahni State Historic Park.

220. Tule Elk State Natural Reserve.

Ford8N
05-29-2009, 4:00 PM
My local paper said they will put up signs saying to keep out and will site anyone trespassing on closed state land. Are they going to have local cops, sheriff or CHP write the tickets? Another waste of tax payer money if you ask me.

And the most tragic thing is what will Huell Houser talk about on his show "California's Gold"?

Johnny Diablo
05-29-2009, 4:14 PM
Gaviota, Mc Grath and Hearst San Simion are nice places when I was there 20+ years ago

Had a great group campout at Pt Mugu 2 years ago

Close Pismo beach? That wont go easy.

bulgron
05-29-2009, 4:22 PM
So they're closing state parks so they can keep giving health care and schooling to illegal immigrants. Just make sure people understand that.

This is all political payback from Sacramento to the voters. Again, people need to understand that so that hopefully there will be a voter revolt real soon now.

RudyN
05-29-2009, 4:25 PM
This is the type of idiocy that you can expect from Politicians. Rather than cut real fat/overhead they try to mess things up for the citizens so that they can cry as to why they need to increase taxes.

larryb
05-29-2009, 4:27 PM
Gaviota, Mc Grath and Hearst San Simion are nice places when I was there 20+ years ago

Had a great group campout at Pt Mugu 2 years ago

Close Pismo beach? That wont go easy.

We have reservations for San Simeon to go camping this summer. It is still a great place for family camping. Looks like we will be changing our plans thanks to Arnie.

gregorylucas
05-29-2009, 5:21 PM
Well it seems to me that parks will still be protected by the law, but it also seems that with the amount of police cutbacks being proposed they will lack the ability/heart to effectively police these areas. So these areas might revert to how they were years ago.

Sadly enough I have to work six days a week to provide effectively for myself and family so I actually haven't made it to a state park in about 5 years.

Greg

Satex
05-29-2009, 6:37 PM
This is the Washington Monument Tactic: shut down the most favorite public facilities which have nearly no impact on budget in order to gain legislative support for new taxes.
Here is exactly how this will play out:
1) Announce closures of parks and other attraction that have next to no impact on the budget.
2) Let the public cry out against it.
3) Legislator comes in and "saves the day" by imposing a new tax for 100 times the cost of operating the parks.
4) Public takes the bait and is happy the legislature "saved the parks"
5) Repeat process.

rolo
05-29-2009, 6:42 PM
If the money collected by the parks was actually used by the parks, there wouldn't be any problem maintaining the parks. The problem is just like every other revenue stream in this state, put it in the general fund to be disbursed as the politicians see fit as opposed to where it came from. Less welfare, more infrastructure.

bulgron
05-29-2009, 7:08 PM
I was just thinking, if they actually close those parks, should we start calling them 'pot plantations'? Because that's exactly what they'll become.

kermit315
05-29-2009, 7:29 PM
This is the Washington Monument Tactic: shut down the most favorite public facilities which have nearly no impact on budget in order to gain legislative support for new taxes.
Here is exactly how this will play out:
1) Announce closures of parks and other attraction that have next to no impact on the budget.
2) Let the public cry out against it.
3) Legislator comes in and "saves the day" by imposing a new tax for 100 times the cost of operating the parks.
4) Public takes the bait and is happy the legislature "saved the parks"
5) Repeat process.

QFT

Sledgehammer
05-29-2009, 7:43 PM
Very depressing. Hopefully I'll stay employed the next two years so that I can finish school, save money, and the move out of this crappy state.

Solidmch
05-29-2009, 8:20 PM
look how they close thing that generate funds... Look how they cut everything but their costly social programs. It is a joke.

Bad Voodoo
05-29-2009, 8:33 PM
So they're closing state parks so they can keep giving health care and schooling to illegal immigrants. Just make sure people understand that.

This is all political payback from Sacramento to the voters. Again, people need to understand that so that hopefully there will be a voter revolt real soon now.

That is EXACTLY what is happening. A great big 'ol FU to the voters for rejecting their money laundering schemes.

rolo
05-29-2009, 8:39 PM
They'll have a very difficult time keeping enough manpower available to prevent the public using the parks. I suppose it never occurred to them to stop raiding the public parks coffers, or, *gasp*, raising the ridiculously low day use fees?

EZ G
05-29-2009, 8:41 PM
My understanding is that we spend roughly 16 billion a year on illegals. How about we cut all state funding for illegals BEFORE WE F OVER TAXPAYERS and cut benefits that they actually pay for. We could bridge the gap by doing this overnight. Open up all our oil leases and some new ones and we would immediately be in a surplus. This whole thing is BS and extortion.

tankerman
05-29-2009, 8:49 PM
My local paper said they will put up signs saying to keep out and will site anyone trespassing on closed state land.
Citizens trespassing on 'State Lands'. F-ckin politicians are idiots.

leverage
05-29-2009, 8:55 PM
Sad. These are public lands. They belong to all of us. Some of these are places I have grown up in, fell in love in, and enjoy to this day.

nobody33
05-29-2009, 8:58 PM
Some of the parks make some money (Old Town San Diego, San Simon) but there are a lot that don't make much at all (Anza Borrego).

I doubt the beaches make much more than the parking and camping fees (at the ones that have camping). The lifeguards are probably pretty expensive.

They should turn the beaches all over to the local authorities. They have been way understaffed for lifeguards and rangers for years. Beaches tend to bring in taxes in the local nearby communities.

N6ATF
05-29-2009, 9:18 PM
I was just thinking, if they actually close those parks, should we start calling them 'pot plantations'? Because that's exactly what they'll become.

Aha! I need to defend myself against drug lords with automatic weapons!

Humboldt
05-29-2009, 9:38 PM
Democrats will always fail!!! The bums will always lose!!

charliedontsurf334
05-29-2009, 10:03 PM
Some of the parks make some money (Old Town San Diego, San Simon) but there are a lot that don't make much at all (Anza Borrego).

I doubt the beaches make much more than the parking and camping fees (at the ones that have camping). The lifeguards are probably pretty expensive.

They should turn the beaches all over to the local authorities. They have been way understaffed for lifeguards and rangers for years. Beaches tend to bring in taxes in the local nearby communities.

Until recently, (I got laid off) I was a lifeguard at Pismo Beach. we only got $11/hr. Lifeguards aren't that expensive.

ChrisSig
05-29-2009, 10:16 PM
How about fixing the school system that lays off teachers and moves administrators into teaching positions? If thousands of administrator positions can be eliminated, what are they doing there in the first place? Frigging unions.

nobody33
05-29-2009, 11:25 PM
Until recently, (I got laid off) I was a lifeguard at Pismo Beach. we only got $11/hr. Lifeguards aren't that expensive.

The full time ones and rangers are... figure in benefits insurance, equipment etc etc. The parking meters at the beaches aren't taking in that much.

The hourly salary is a small part of the whole picture.

CABilly
05-30-2009, 1:47 AM
Excellent! Close the parks off to the citizens and guarantee the illegal pot farmers primo land with 98% less intrusions! (not to get into our ridiculous drug policies....)

Sunwolf
05-30-2009, 5:59 AM
Call their bluff,close the parks.Lay off people,them start on the other branches of State Gov.

socal2310
05-30-2009, 6:39 AM
Do the high income state parks generate enough to make up for the shortfall in the low income ones?

If it is actually the case that the parks could be self sustaining by existing revenue streams if incoming monies were separated from the general fund, then we could call this scam for what it is.

Ryan

PatriotnMore
05-30-2009, 6:43 AM
Who is the State of California?
Is it not the people?
Why are the people being denied what they own.
I can understand places like Hurst Castle, which require paid employees to run the place, but many of the sites listed are camp grounds, and beaches. The public should not be denied access to these types of places simply because there is no one there to collect an entrance fee.

Again, vote out of office every incumbent running for office, and replace them with people who can and will do the job needed to effectively run this state.

Aegis
05-30-2009, 7:01 AM
No matter how much money the state receives, the politicians will blow it on wasteful spending. Always have, always will.

BigDogatPlay
05-30-2009, 7:15 AM
Close Pismo beach? That wont go easy.

Note the list contains Pismo State Beach but not Oceano Dunes SVRA. None of the SVRAs are on the list because they are directly funded by OHV registration fees. That money is single purpose by statute and the Legislature can't steal from it.

Once again, the Governor tries to solve a problem by rattling his saber and scaring people.

Some discussion farther up the thread on DPRs budgetm but you can find out a lot for yourself just by looking here (http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/agencies.html). DPR is under "Resources".

For the FY09-10 budget proposed by the Governor, DPR is set up as follows. Dollar figures are in thousands, and total funds include state funds, federal funds, other non-governmental cost funds, and reimbursements.


Department of Parks & Recreation
3,370.9 headcount
$761,729 allotment of state funds
$842,374 total all funds

Now I'd wager that there is probably a little bit of featherbedding in DPR, so let's say we proposed a targeted, common sense work force reduction. Then let's look at the Integrated Waste Management Board... the political home of former Senator Carole "Hic" Migden, and an agency that has been widely identified as being utterly worthless and having absolutely no value add. What does our dear leader propose to give to the IWMB this next year?

Integrated Waste Management Board
Headcount 478.6
$255,024 allotment of state funds
$257,304 total of all funds

478.6 government employees... including the $150K per year plus benefits commissioners, and a $25.7 million dollar price tag for it. In simple terms IWMB equals 30% or so of DPR's total budget going to only a minor percentage of DPR's workforce by comparison. While performing absolutely no service of value to the taxpayer.

Let's assume for the argument that we do a ten percent RIF at DPR, because it's state employment and there has to be a pad. If I eliminate IWMB entirely (which it should be by all sane analyst's reckoning), I just kept the parks open and most likely well maintained. By eliminating one do nothing cesspool of a regulatory board that serves to keep old pols on the payroll and a few hundred state workers on the job.

In the immortal words of Stewie Griffin... what the **** man? Why, when a poor schlub like me can see this in the numbers, can not our state government?

Wake up California. Don't just sit and whine... educate yourselves on what your elected representatives and their enablers, the public employee unions, are doing to you.

glockman19
05-30-2009, 7:32 AM
The state of California can NOT stop residents from using what is their's. They may not be able to provide services but they can NOT stop us from using our public lands.

DO NOT FEAR THE THREATS. that's all they are are threats. Government and LEO have NO ATHORITY to detain or arrest ANY CALIFORNIAN RESIDENT from legally using state park lands.

Don't be intimidated by hollow threats.

BigDogatPlay
05-30-2009, 7:51 AM
If the area is sign posted as closed per 602 PC, they certainly can detain and / or arrest you for trespassing on closed lands. While from a common sense perspective you are absolutely correct that they have no right to stop us from using the lands that we all own, as the agent in control of the land on our behalf, they most certainly have the authority.

Yes, what the state through the mouthpiece in chief is doing is trying to scare people. But weighing the consequences to the action needs to be considered.

nobody33
05-30-2009, 1:07 PM
The state of California can NOT stop residents from using what is their's. They may not be able to provide services but they can NOT stop us from using our public lands.

DO NOT FEAR THE THREATS. that's all they are are threats. Government and LEO have NO ATHORITY to detain or arrest ANY CALIFORNIAN RESIDENT from legally using state park lands.


Of course they can't arrest anyone for doing something that is legal, that's why they just put up a sign saying no trespassing... now it's illegal.


Many parks close at nights, and there are plenty of regulations to control the use of parks. I got kicked out of Lake Silverwood about ten years ago because it was eagle mating season.

All they have to do is put up a sign saying the park is closed no trespassing. Now you get to go to jail or get a ticket.

AaronHorrocks
06-01-2009, 9:38 AM
So they're closing state parks so they can keep giving health care and schooling to illegal immigrants. Just make sure people understand that.

This is all political payback from Sacramento to the voters. Again, people need to understand that so that hopefully there will be a voter revolt real soon now.

I thought this last "special election" was the voter revolt! We voted NO on everything, except for the petty measure of preventing legislators from raising their pay while they're not doing their job.

Now the state is trying to punish us by cutting our necessities, while keeping their frivolous projects.

It seems to me, that it's US vs. THEM and they're taking the first strike.

demnogis
06-01-2009, 10:06 AM
Is it possible that once a "State Park" is closed it becomes absorbed back into the "State Forest" category, or "National Forest" category?

pullnshoot25
06-01-2009, 10:28 AM
Of course they can't arrest anyone for doing something that is legal, that's why they just put up a sign saying no trespassing... now it's illegal.


Many parks close at nights, and there are plenty of regulations to control the use of parks. I got kicked out of Lake Silverwood about ten years ago because it was eagle mating season.

All they have to do is put up a sign saying the park is closed no trespassing. Now you get to go to jail or get a ticket.

But how can one trespass on land that is owned by everyone?

ojisan
06-01-2009, 10:42 AM
"Note the list contains Pismo State Beach but not Oceano Dunes SVRA. None of the SVRAs are on the list because they are directly funded by OHV registration fees. That money is single purpose by statute and the Legislature can't steal from it."

The Green Sticker fund has been raided and ripped off so many times over the years that there is no money for SVRAs. Yes, an initiative was voted in to stop the rip-offs but already so much was taken over the years that SVRAs are barely staying alive.

motorhead
06-01-2009, 11:36 AM
doom and gloom threats from the governator. he's being petulant because we rejected his last money grab. if the bloodsuckers could find a way to bill us for air they would. i see incumbents on the endangered species list next year.

AaronHorrocks
06-01-2009, 11:45 AM
if the bloodsuckers could find a way to bill us for air they would.

They have. It's called a "Carbon Tax", and it's brought to you by the environmentalists.

GenLee
06-01-2009, 12:09 PM
This is disgusting. However comical at the same time.

I just returned from my reprographics guy with new prints for work to bid on. One of those new prints/projects are for an "Ocotillo Wells SVRA Maintenance Building". lol.

We are so broke we are closing some parks while we start brand new construction on others? WTF? These plans where approved for construction by DPR Access Compliance Review on 5/19/09 Certification # 09-027. Who's lying to who hear folks?

This whole state gov. needs an entire colon cleanse of its waste and fecal matter.

Glock22Fan
06-01-2009, 1:51 PM
But how can one trespass on land that is owned by everyone?


Quite easily. Have you tried simply walking into FBI headquarters at Quantico? The Pentagon? The stockade at Fort Bragg? The gardens at the White House? I think that they are all on land owned by us, as are many other prohibited places.

Two Shots
06-01-2009, 1:54 PM
This is disgusting. However comical at the same time.

I just returned from my reprographics guy with new prints for work to bid on. One of those new prints/projects are for an "Ocotillo Wells SVRA Maintenance Building". lol.

We are so broke we are closing some parks while we start brand new construction on others? WTF? These plans where approved for construction by DPR Access Compliance Review on 5/19/09 Certification # 09-027. Who's lying to who hear folks?

This whole state gov. needs an entire colon cleanse of its waste and fecal matter.


We all know this is how Arnie the RINO is getting back at us for not allowing his props to pass.

deleted by PC police
06-01-2009, 2:07 PM
You guys need to show Sacramento that these tactics are not going to work, Just spend your money going to state parks in other states, buy as little as you can in state before you leave.

AaronHorrocks
06-01-2009, 2:12 PM
You guys need to show Sacramento that these tactics are not going to work, Just spend your money going to state parks in other states, buy as little as you can in state before you leave.

I've been doing that for years. Y'all should visit Moab! Arches National Park is quite a sight. There's as many people there speaking French, German, Russian, and Spanish as there is English. If people travel all over the WORLD to see that park, you could certianly get off yer rears and spend some time in the great state of Utah. :thumbsup:

deleted by PC police
06-01-2009, 2:14 PM
I've been doing that for years. Y'all should visit Moab! Arches National Park is quite a sight. There's as many people there speaking French, German, Russian, and Spanish as there is English. If people travel all over the WORLD to see that park, you could certianly get off yer rears and spend some time in the great state of Utah. :thumbsup:

Don't forget Lake Powell. Greatest place on earth.

glockman19
06-01-2009, 2:22 PM
Of course they can't arrest anyone for doing something that is legal, that's why they just put up a sign saying no trespassing... now it's illegal.


Many parks close at nights, and there are plenty of regulations to control the use of parks. I got kicked out of Lake Silverwood about ten years ago because it was eagle mating season.

All they have to do is put up a sign saying the park is closed no trespassing. Now you get to go to jail or get a ticket.

NO they can't. And...IF they lose their jobs, who will be there to enforce it?

Alaric
06-01-2009, 4:49 PM
NO they can't. And...IF they lose their jobs, who will be there to enforce it?

They'll be enforced by a skeleton crew of State Park Rangers kept on to keep trespassers out. Many State Park Rangers live onsite in their parks, and will often patrol at any and all hours. Rangers are state LEO's btw, with all the arrest powers that come with that.

tgriffin
06-01-2009, 5:11 PM
yep they are going to become "Kings Forest". I dare them to try and close Mt. Diablo. The public will have a **** fit.

Glock22Fan
06-01-2009, 5:25 PM
Would someone please explain to me why so many people are blaming Ahnold?

Surely the blame lies in the bloated spending of the legislature over the last many years, and any current cuts should be laid at the door of those who cannot agree on a balanced budget.

kermit315
06-01-2009, 5:29 PM
Would someone please explain to me why so many people are blaming Ahnold?

Surely the blame lies in the bloated spending of the legislature over the last many years, and any current cuts should be laid at the door of those who cannot agree on a balanced budget.

your not wrong, but being the guy signing the budget means he is the one that has to take the responsibility. Also, its not the legislature talking about closing anything, so all you see in the news is his mug talking about closing things/cutting jobs.

hawk84
06-01-2009, 5:47 PM
I've been doing that for years. Y'all should visit Moab! Arches National Park is quite a sight. There's as many people there speaking French, German, Russian, and Spanish as there is English. If people travel all over the WORLD to see that park, you could certianly get off yer rears and spend some time in the great state of Utah. :thumbsup:

Im going in two weeks, little place called Hurricane outside of Zion,
Hanggliding, Rock Climbing, and some plinking out there

I love Utah

fairfaxjim
06-01-2009, 7:31 PM
Is it possible that once a "State Park" is closed it becomes absorbed back into the "State Forest" category, or "National Forest" category?

State parks are not taken from State Forests, they are unique and special areas, features, or buildings that have special interest or value to the public and are placed in the park system to provide care and access to them, presumably forever. The State Forests (there are only 8 of them) are examples of unique forest systems that are operated by Cal Fire (previously California Div. of Forestry) as research and demonstration forests. Some of them have camping or other elements similar to State Parks, but they are not a part of Dept. of Parks & Recreation (DPR). The National Forest system is composed of federal lands, and have nothing to do with the state of CA except that they may be located within the state.

The proposal at hand does not actually propose "closing" or eliminating any parks, but rather placing them in a "custodial care" status for the duration of the budget crisis. Now what that really means is anybody's guess, as this proposal is really a button pushing in your face kind of political BS that Arnold loves, and that usually bites him in the a**!

bodger
06-01-2009, 8:24 PM
I was just thinking, if they actually close those parks, should we start calling them 'pot plantations'? Because that's exactly what they'll become.

That, and a vast estate for homeless illegal immigrants. Those that lack the cajones to get on welfare anyway. Or maybe them too.

One thing is for sure, if these parks do get closed, there will be plenty of stories on the news about what is going on in those parks, and the disrepair they will no doubt incur.

Friggn' sad to see.

DB2
06-01-2009, 8:32 PM
If they are closed, this will be precidence. Everytime something goes wrong, not enough money, or what ever, CLOSE THE PARKS. Next will be the SVRAs. This is a tree huggers wet dream.

close the parks, don't need park rangers. Might as well close the forests, won't need forest rangers either. I wonder who fed him this idea?

bigcalidave
06-01-2009, 8:40 PM
I'll be there with everyone else I hope ... "trespassing"... There aren't enough rangers to stop crime or vandalism in the parks now, you think they will be around to cite people for visiting the closed parks? lol. This is some serious sadness if they try and close anything, but I see more than a few places on that list that would be impossible to keep closed... Angel island? Really? WTF are they thinking, it's an abandoned island in the middle of the bay... Are they gonna stop every boat from going near it? Warning shots over the bow?

N6ATF
06-01-2009, 8:45 PM
Would someone please explain to me why so many people are blaming Ahnold?

Surely the blame lies in the bloated spending of the legislature over the last many years, and any current cuts should be laid at the door of those who cannot agree on a balanced budget.

Who ran his campaign on cutting taxes and spending, and who ended up being the most vocal and repeated proponent for taxes and increased spending? That's right, AHNOLD.

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/story/1135335.html

From his campaign:
"From the time they get up in the morning and flush the toilet, they're taxed," Schwarzenegger said. "When they go and get a coffee, they're taxed.

"They get into their car, they're taxed. They go to the gas station, they're taxed. They go for lunch, they're taxed. This goes on all day long. Tax, tax, tax, tax, tax. Even when they go to bed, you can go to bed in fear that you are going to be taxed while you're sleeping, that there is a sleeping tax."

More from the article:

Schwarzenegger is proposing to raise taxes on coffee, cars, gas, lunches and, yes, even toilets and mattresses. In a closed-door meeting with legislators, the governor reportedly suggested a temporary, 1-cent sales tax increase to try to break the latest partisan logjam over the budget.

The pied piper of the state has led us to the edge of the Grand Canyon and tried to get us to walk straight off it by trying to trick us into voting yes on 1A-1F.

Glock22Fan
06-02-2009, 7:56 AM
Who ran his campaign on cutting taxes and spending, and who ended up being the most vocal and repeated proponent for taxes and increased spending? That's right, AHNOLD.

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/story/1135335.html

From his campaign:


More from the article:



The pied piper of the state has led us to the edge of the Grand Canyon and tried to get us to walk straight off it by trying to trick us into voting yes on 1A-1F.

Look, I'm not a big Arnie fan, but you are blaming the messenger. He went to Sacramento with rosy colored glasses on, expecting to cut wasteful spending, trim in the budget and reduce taxes. He simply didn't reckon on the brickwall put up by the Democrats. Faced with the impossibility of balancing the budget by making cuts (and thereby trimming taxes), he has no option other than increasing taxes, or letting California go bankrupt.

I read your article, and all I took away from it is that Arnie was naive to think he could control the Dems and has had to make accomodations with their power (to control spending).

N6ATF
06-02-2009, 10:41 AM
So if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? Screw that. Resign if you won't fulfill your campaign promises. He will now leave in disgrace.

By the way, states cannot legally go bankrupt. Only municipalities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality) (as far as govt. is concerned).

unusedusername
06-02-2009, 11:52 AM
So if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? Screw that. Resign if you won't fulfill your campaign promises. He will now leave in disgrace.

By the way, states cannot legally go bankrupt. Only municipalities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality) (as far as govt. is concerned).

Perhaps it can not legally go bankrupt, but it also can not print money they way the Feds can... When they run out of money then nobody will get paid.

Glock22Fan
06-02-2009, 12:05 PM
So if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? Screw that. Resign if you won't fulfill your campaign promises. He will now leave in disgrace.

By the way, states cannot legally go bankrupt. Only municipalities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality) (as far as govt. is concerned).

Bankruptcy means, informally, being unable to pay your bills (liabilities exceeding assets + goodwill). What you mean is that there is no way they can go to court and become officially bankrupt, with some kind of management or settlement scheme. However, they can indeed go informally bankrupt, and are fast heading that way.

If you can't beat them, perhaps you should resign in despair. In the mean time, do what you can to lessen the disaster. Turning it over to some less motivated person might well mean even more taxation. I think that you see life too simplistically.

N6ATF
06-02-2009, 12:29 PM
When they run out of money then nobody will get paid.

Good. People should not be paid (and benefitted) exorbitant sums and have almost total immunity from being fired for not even meeting the lowest standard of performance.

Turning it over to some less motivated person might well mean even more taxation.

In other words, someone else might maintain the status quo of increasing taxes and doubling the size (or at least the budget) of government every 10 years. Gosh, we couldn't dare risk more of the same, even if it meant we might also get someone with testicular fortitude. CA was already the highest-taxed state (http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/08staxrank.html), and got the largest (state) tax increase in the history of the U.S., signed and dishonestly promoted by Ahnold.

If you're going to defend Ahnold and his lies to the death then I guess it's time to update my ignore list.

gunn
06-02-2009, 12:51 PM
I was just thinking, if they actually close those parks, should we start calling them 'pot plantations'? Because that's exactly what they'll become.

I'm worried about this as well. If there was a legitimate reason for closing a park (say XXX site needs to recover), I could live with a temporary closure for the greater long term good. A good example of this wuold be to limit salmon fishing for one year to allow the population to recover. However, there is no guarantee that there will be adequate police to keep these parks clean of pot growers, trash dumpers, and bums.

"Not having enough money or using state parks as a pawn to support additional taxes" is an inadequate excuse and personally angers me. Part of the reason to live in CA is to have great parks close by while living in an urban center. I pay for this through a higher cost of living than my friends in TX. Why should I pay for this crap if all it is doing is paying for programs I don't use anyway?

From what I understand, a LOT of the programs that are viewed as unnecessary are funded through non-discretionary appropriations put in place by voter referrendums. I've never seen a state with so many of these stupid programs.

Q: Would you support a constitutional convention to rewrite and "dehamstring" this state's finances?

-g

Glock22Fan
06-02-2009, 1:58 PM
Good. People should not be paid (and benefitted) exorbitant sums and have almost total immunity from being fired for not even meeting the lowest standard of performance.



In other words, someone else might maintain the status quo of increasing taxes and doubling the size (or at least the budget) of government every 10 years. Gosh, we couldn't dare risk more of the same, even if it meant we might also get someone with testicular fortitude. CA was already the highest-taxed state (http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/08staxrank.html), and got the largest (state) tax increase in the history of the U.S., signed and dishonestly promoted by Ahnold.

If you're going to defend Ahnold and his lies to the death then I guess it's time to update my ignore list.

As I said, you are being over-simplistic. Way over-simplistic.

But have it your way. Let's sack the teachers, the police, CalTrans and everyone else who works for the state. That will fix it.

sorensen440
06-02-2009, 2:00 PM
Its all scare tactics

First they tried saying they were going to fire all the teachers police and firefighters then let all the criminals out of jail

now its state parks

Theseus
06-02-2009, 2:34 PM
A Yellowstone Park ranger once told me, by way of explaining the poorly maintained roads, that although the park takes in more than enough fees to run and maintain itself, those fees must be remitted to Washington, and then appropriated back to the park. Congress just dumps the fees into the general fund and then starves the park for operating funds. I wouldn't put it past California to do the same.

And considering I had to pay some $13/$17 to simply drive through the park I bet they make some decent money.

N6ATF
06-02-2009, 8:39 PM
Let's sack the teachers, the police, CalTrans and everyone else who works for the state. That will fix it.

Thanks for digging your own grave with made-up nonsense. Nothing more to say to a slave of Modern Politics 101.

fairfaxjim
06-03-2009, 9:58 AM
A Yellowstone Park ranger once told me, by way of explaining the poorly maintained roads, that although the park takes in more than enough fees to run and maintain itself, those fees must be remitted to Washington, and then appropriated back to the park. Congress just dumps the fees into the general fund and then starves the park for operating funds. I wouldn't put it past California to do the same.

Politicians LOVE money, and sombody else's money is even better. Many state agencies operate that way too - revenue goes into general fund, and then the legislators parcel it out to their favorite money pits. Whatever is left over is grudgingly alotted back to the agencies that made the money in the first place.

If you notice, the parks that were on the keep open list all had a non-touchable revenue stream, either from the off-road vehicles or from boating.

Back when CA thought it had tons of $$, they lowered the park admission, did some capital improvements, and cut out a lot of extra charges (extra car at campground, free showers, etc.) that really should have been left in place to fund a "rainy day" type of fund for the parks. That didn't, can't now, and isn't going to happen in my lifetime.

Picking on the parks was a good hot button issue though, because just about everybody is screaming about it - all smoke and mirrors in my opinion and has nothing to do with the problems we face.

Theseus
06-03-2009, 10:44 AM
I don't mind paying to use parks, IF the money actually goes to create and maintain infrastructure that makes the land more accessible, safe, and pleasant.

If all I am doing is paying to be able to drive down a dirt trail to throw a tent on the ground when I still have to go out in the woods to relieve myself I see no reason to pay the State or the Fed for it. That use should be free. Provide me running water, roads, etc and I will pay happily.

I also would like more of the funding to go to the actual park or park system and its employees.

vrand
06-03-2009, 11:10 AM
So they're closing state parks so they can keep giving health care and schooling to illegal immigrants. Just make sure people understand that.

This is all political payback from Sacramento to the voters. Again, people need to understand that so that hopefully there will be a voter revolt real soon now.

yup

Wake me up when we storm the capital with pitchforks and run the tyrants out of town.