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View Full Version : Is Magpul PTS made for airsoft?


eroberts88
05-29-2009, 1:49 AM
Just picked up a set of the MBUS and they say PTS on them.. I did some research and it seems the PTS line is for airsoft. Whats the deal? Did I buy the wrong stuff??

aplinker
05-29-2009, 1:54 AM
yes

http://www.magpul-pts.com/

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 2:08 AM
so whats the difference? anyone know?

I bought these from a reputable dealer...i hope it wasnt some bait and switch tactic BS!

dchang0
05-29-2009, 2:21 AM
Crappier plastic/polymer, I think.

ro442173
05-29-2009, 2:57 AM
Yeah I almost fell for that one on eBay. PTS sounded different, so I googled it and found out it was airsoft... nope not buying that junk.

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 3:02 AM
Damn it. Well ill be giving them a call tomorrow...see if I can return it.

unamused
05-29-2009, 6:00 AM
there is a vendor that sells the PTS stuff... odly its the same price as the real deal (i would have said real steel but as you know its not steel)

thmpr
05-29-2009, 6:16 AM
reminds me of a cockaroach...

tefunk
05-29-2009, 8:03 AM
Do you have a link to the website you bought from?

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 8:35 AM
before I give out the website, i'm going to call and see if he'll make it right. If not, Ill post the address up.

Kind of sketchy, I go back to the website and now in parenthesis it says "(use with airsoft)" I swear it didnt say that before. And why in the world would a black rifle accessories dealer have sights for airsoft...the only item I can see on the entire site made for airsoft at all!

Glin1216
05-29-2009, 8:38 AM
FYI: The Magpul PTS Ranger-Plates will fit on real P-Mags, have the same Patent # on them, and in overall construction are remarkably similar to the real Ranger-Plates. No mention of PTS anywhere on the unit itself...

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 9:00 AM
FYI: The Magpul PTS Ranger-Plates will fit on real P-Mags, have the same Patent # on them, and in overall construction are remarkably similar to the real Ranger-Plates. No mention of PTS anywhere on the unit itself...

I bought a MOE stock and grip. Do you think he could have swapped them for PTS without my knowledge?

Ducman
05-29-2009, 9:27 AM
tag

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 9:46 AM
DELETED BY MASTER YONG

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 10:14 AM
Just got off the phone with him. He gave me some story on how they are the exact same just made overseas and how he has been to the magpul training so he knows yada yada yada...and how it was my fault to not notice the airsoft at the bottom of the page... He did say he would take a return but wouldn't refund my shipping.

I called Magpul and was told the PTS stuff is made from an ABS plastic, and is licensed to a company in hong kong... They dont even know what goes on in that company. (basically it is junk, made overseas to look like the real deal) And on top of it all, Magpul told me the dealer I bought it from wasn't an actual Magpul dealer.

The dealer was www.sacramentoblackrifle.com refered to me by a fellow calgunner.

at least I can get most of the 95$ bucks I paid

Ducman
05-29-2009, 10:18 AM
don't they sell here? thanks, I will have them on my cross of the list stores.

sonicbuff
05-29-2009, 10:22 AM
so whats the difference? anyone know?


PTS does not have the metal liner. Otherwise, they're the same.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 10:36 AM
Just got off the phone with him. He gave me some story on how they are the exact same just made overseas and how he has been to the magpul training so he knows yada yada yada...and how it was my fault to not notice the airsoft at the bottom of the page... He did say he would take a return but wouldn't refund my shipping.


I would like to say that I know for sure his website says PTS and always has. Go there and look at the pictures. They clearly say PTS. It's not like he has pictures of the regular version and sends out PTS. He's a stand up guy and doesn't do any kind of bait and switch. I think it's more than fair for him to refund your money less shipping. That is what any store would do when you're returning a product that works and is exactly as described. If they were defective he would send you a new set free!

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 10:39 AM
You are right, and I learned an expensive lesson. I figured its a gun store, these are gun sights, in stock and good to go. I had no idea PTS even existed...and the last place I would think to see imitation airsoft stuff would be on a "black rifle" retail website. It seems to me it was set up to entice impulse buys.

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 10:40 AM
DELETED BY MASTER YONG

DREADNOUGHT78
05-29-2009, 10:54 AM
Here is the post Rob put here on Calguns when he put them on his webite.
He stated in post #4 that they are Air-Soft parts.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=171239

John Browning
05-29-2009, 11:02 AM
Here is the post Rob put here on Calguns when he put them on his webite.
He stated in post #4 that they are Air-Soft parts.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=171239

Seems like that should be in post #1 if he already knew he was selling airsoft parts. I can't think of any other reason to not include that very important fact other than you really don't mind if people mistake one for the other. Very bad form IMHO.

dchang0
05-29-2009, 11:08 AM
$95 for an airsoft sight??? WHA-???

I know some folks get serious about their airsoft, but DAMN. I don't think I'd pay more than $95 for a complete airsoft rifle, let alone the sights! Although my brother does have a neat MP5 training gun that was like $500- but I'd rather spend that on real parts.... wow.

Airsoft stuff frequently costs more than the equivalent firearm part. Has something to do with the economics of the airsoft market--probably because the real firearms parts are ordered in huge quantities by military and law enforcement worldwide.

And I agree with scobun--it's very bad form to be selling airsoft parts AT ALL on a site dedicated to real firearms. Too easy to fool people, even if by accident. It'd be like putting the chocolate laxatives right next to the chocolates in the grocery store aisle--sure, people can read the label, but they might miss it (and then miss the toilet).

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 11:16 AM
So, rob just called me back very upset. Evidently he saw my posts and was unhappy with the content, so has decided to not take the sights back. Interesting. Do I have any recourse or am I screwed completely?

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 11:23 AM
DELETED BY MASTER YONG

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 11:28 AM
I didnt think I was being too negative at all in this thread. Just bums me out, I thought he was a good dude and planned on ordering more from him (asked him about MOE hand guards last week)

I dont think he'll be getting any more of my business unfortunately

fonionrings
05-29-2009, 11:29 AM
To be fair, we've only heard one side of the discussion.

Might be jumping to conclusions without hearing the other side.

dchang0
05-29-2009, 11:34 AM
True, but a choice to renege on an verbal contract to accept a return isn't a good sign. I've sold stuff on ebay with mistakes in the listing and taken large losses because of it; I always honored my word and shipped the product with nary a mention of my mistake.

The only way now the other side of the story could be important is if eroberts88 is totally making up the part about the seller refusing to honor the return, and it's doubtful he'd do something like that. There just isn't enough vindictiveness in the tone of his posts.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 11:39 AM
so, customer buys wrong product.

customer figures out what he bought isn't what he wants.

customer calls store and store says they'll take it back less shipping.

customer posts on here saying he got screwed and the vendor sucks.

vendor calls customer and asks why he's talking negative on the forum after they said they would take it back.

customer gets crazy on the phone so vendor says they won't take the product back now.

HOW is this Robs fault? The customer should be happy that he was even able to return the product. He should have sent it back got his money, or different sights, and been happy. Now since he wants to take an incorrect purchase to a public forum he gets nothing. Sounds like he's getting what he deserves now.

There are 100's of people on here that will come to Robs defense and support his excellent reputation on Calguns.

Jicko
05-29-2009, 11:51 AM
PTS does not have the metal liner. Otherwise, they're the same.

DO NOT SPREAD bad info here.... they are NOT the same.... the polymer material is completely different... one is designed for firearm... the PTS one is just made by a toy company in HK

The design/blue-print is indeed from Magpul, therefore, the dimension and everything is the same...

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 11:54 AM
so, customer buys wrong product.

customer figures out what he bought isn't what he wants.

customer calls store and store says they'll take it back less shipping.

customer posts on here saying he got screwed and the vendor sucks.

vendor calls customer and asks why he's talking negative on the forum after they said they would take it back.

customer gets crazy on the phone so vendor says they won't take the product back now.

I posted it was my fault, I accept that. Like I said, I just wanted to see if he'd help me out, seeing how anyone can make a mistake like that, especially a noob like me building his first AR. He was rude on the phone, and tried to tell me it was the same as the real thing. I called Magpul to verify his statement, and it was untrue. He called me back, pissed off, and told me in so few words to get screwed. I was very calm on the phone the entire time.

I did not mean to make a negative post about them, I just want whats wrong to be corrected.

Maltese Falcon
05-29-2009, 11:55 AM
So the Airsoft version says PTS on front and has no metal liner (where?)?

I have a set at home that I really never looked at carefully, since the build is still a ways off....Dammit.

unamused
05-29-2009, 12:11 PM
yeah... thats the site i figured you got them off of.

I remember thinking it was odd to be selling airsoft parts specifically those sights on a website that was dedicated more for real steel. not to mention the fact that the fake ones cost just as much as the real ones... I remember back in the airsofting days, having "real steel" parts was such a bragging right, but at the price the fake ones are at, why would anyone buy the fake ones confuses me.

for him to claim that they are the exact same thing as the real deal is just ridiculous. I can however confirm that it has always said for airsoft use on the website though.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 12:13 PM
I did not mean to make a negative post about them, I just want whats wrong to be corrected.

then why don't you be the better man and delete all your posts and call him back?

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 12:16 PM
normally id say since he owns a retail site, he should do just that. afterall he has a reputation to uphold.

however, i may have to

unamused
05-29-2009, 12:20 PM
looking at his website again... i noticed that if you go through the categories... its under ar15-sights and optics- then the magpul PTS sights. A little misleading if you ask me...

wcnones
05-29-2009, 12:42 PM
so, customer buys wrong product.

customer figures out what he bought isn't what he wants.

customer calls store and store says they'll take it back less shipping.

customer posts on here saying he got screwed and the vendor sucks.

vendor calls customer and asks why he's talking negative on the forum after they said they would take it back.

customer gets crazy on the phone so vendor says they won't take the product back now.

HOW is this Robs fault? The customer should be happy that he was even able to return the product. He should have sent it back got his money, or different sights, and been happy. Now since he wants to take an incorrect purchase to a public forum he gets nothing. Sounds like he's getting what he deserves now.

There are 100's of people on here that will come to Robs defense and support his excellent reputation on Calguns.

How much Rob kool-aid have you had to drink? He should have huge letters across the page reading "THIS IS AIRSOFT EQUIPMENT" - not a disclaimer hidden somewhere on the page.

He never said the vendor was junk - he was asking a question. You, sir, are as big a douche as Rob if you ask me.

Jicko
05-29-2009, 12:46 PM
looking at his website again... i noticed that if you go through the categories... its under ar15-sights and optics- then the magpul PTS sights. A little misleading if you ask me...

then why don't you be the better man and delete all your posts and call him back?

I think it is BS for him to sell airsoft stuff together with real firearm stuff...

Magpul PTS sights DOES NOT belong on a AR-15!

http://www.sacramentoblackrifle.com/product_p/mpl-mpts027.htm

The biggest lie is that he put this logo above the sights
http://www.sacramentoblackrifle.com/v/vspfiles/photos/manufacturers/magpul.gif

This logo is Magpul Industries' logo. Magpul PTS is NOT manufactured by Magpul Industries. Magpul PTS products are manufactured by MAGPUL (ASIA) LIMITED, while the design is licensed by Magpul Industries for Training and Simulation (Airsoft) only.



I bought these from a reputable dealer

I have no respect for a vendor like that!

Cal-Irish
05-29-2009, 12:49 PM
Boycott on OP and Dealer.

RECCE556
05-29-2009, 12:54 PM
This says a LOT about the vendor...trying to pass off Airsoft stuff for real guns. Rob, you should be giving the guy a full refund INCLUDING shipping and his return shipping, then you should put on your website IN LARGE LETTERS that these are AIRSOFT.

And WTF are you doing trying to sell Airsoft junk for real guns?

Jicko
05-29-2009, 12:56 PM
HOW is this Robs fault? The customer should be happy that he was even able to return the product. He should have sent it back got his money, or different sights, and been happy. Now since he wants to take an incorrect purchase to a public forum he gets nothing. Sounds like he's getting what he deserves now.

There are 100's of people on here that will come to Robs defense and support his excellent reputation on Calguns.

NO MORE, from THIS point on...

:mad:

He need to REMOVE those sights from his "AR15/AR10 Rifle" section.

Full apology + refund (item + shipping)!!

Remove false ad of "Magpul Industries Corp" from that PTS product, or we should report this to Magpul Ind.

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 1:07 PM
DELETED BY MASTER YONG

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 1:11 PM
DELETED BY MASTER YONG

thempopresense
05-29-2009, 1:19 PM
Tagged for outcome.

Solidsnake87
05-29-2009, 1:21 PM
Unfortunately, some dealers/sellers are selling clonepoints as real aimpoints..... see it on gunbroker all the time.

Let me give one god hard piece of advice-- if you are buying used gun equipment, always make sure it comes with the original packaging. This helps ensure authernticity--especially in the case of optics where the optic serial matches the box serial.

Jicko
05-29-2009, 1:24 PM
Unfortunately, some dealers/sellers are selling clonepoints as real aimpoints..... see it on gunbroker all the time.

I don't think they dare to come onto CG and say it out loud... and call themselves reputable dealer...


Let me give one god hard piece of advice-- if you are buying used gun equipment, always make sure it comes with the original packaging. This helps ensure authernticity--especially in the case of optics where the optic serial matches the box serial.

This is NOT even a used item.... right now, it is a matter of false advertisement, and trying to sell airsoft stuff as real firearm stuff...

Sniper3142
05-29-2009, 1:33 PM
I think the seller needs to REMOVE these AIRSOFT sights from the website.

The description is a bit misleading at best (The bold sections are by me):

Description Quote: "The Magpul MBUS or Magpul Back Up Sight system has a front and rear flip sights that are rugged and something every shooter needs in case their primary optic goes down. The MBUS comes in several color patterns to choose from.(Use with airsoft)"

Calling these sights "rugged" and something a "shooter" needs followed by the word airsoft just seems wrong IMHO.

:(

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 1:33 PM
Thanks for all the support guys, and sorry for the drama..I never intended on this thread becoming what it is.

Update: I contacted my credit card company, and they will be helping me out to the best of their abilities. I sent the stuff back to him, just so he would have the product in case I get refunded (credit card company already did it) and was recommended by by them to do so.

I also contacted Magpul about this, and they were extremely helpful and informative. They will be in contact with Rob they assured me.

Again, thanks for the support guys, and hopefully this gets resolved quickly

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 1:34 PM
I posted it was my fault, I accept that. Like I said, I just wanted to see if he'd help me out, seeing how anyone can make a mistake like that, especially a noob like me building his first AR.
He said you could return it! Hello! McFly!

He was rude on the phone.
AFTER he said he would take care of it then you keep posting about it. THEN he called you right?


He called me back, pissed off, and told me in so few words to get screwed.
This would never have happened if YOU didn't cause it. You keep posting on here. He's an emotional person and takes care of his customers. He told you that you could return it! From the begining you were getting taken care of.

I was very calm on the phone the entire time.
Yea, I'm sure you NEVER EVER threatened him with some sort of "I'll call my credit card company" or "I'll call the BBB" or "I'll post on CalGuns". You're totally innocent right? :rolleyes:

I did not mean to make a negative post about them, I just want whats wrong to be corrected.
It was, by your own statement, being taken care of. I don't understand why you just don't handle this with him directly. This whole thing is stupid.

wcnones
05-29-2009, 1:39 PM
He said you could return it! Hello! McFly!


AFTER he said he would take care of it then you keep posting about it. THEN he called you right?



This would never have happened if YOU didn't cause it. You keep posting on here. He's an emotional person and takes care of his customers. He told you that you could return it! From the begining you were getting taken care of.


Yea, I'm sure you NEVER EVER threatened him with some sort of "I'll call my credit card company" or "I'll call the BBB" or "I'll post on CalGuns". You're totally innocent right? :rolleyes:


It was, by your own statement, being taken care of. I don't understand why you just don't handle this with him directly. This whole thing is stupid.

Stop digging dude. You are making your stupidity hole deeper and deeper.

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 1:41 PM
He asked me if I know how hard it is to run a business, I told him I have 6 years of running a family business. He then told me that he would "make me eat the cost" and I let him know, that credit card companies will normally side with their customers. We've had it happen at our very store, so I know this to be true. He then said "try it, and you will lose" and hung up on me. I never threatened to call the BBB or post on calguns. He actually told me to stop posting on calguns, with out any antagonism from me, and assured me that my "25 posts wont hurt his business, say what you want, but I have a 100% rating with over 600 posts" and laughed at me.

You know, your posts are very skewed, and lie quite a bit. Are you and Rob partners by any chance? He said someone told him about my post. Was it you?

unamused
05-29-2009, 1:41 PM
He said you could return it! Hello! McFly!


AFTER he said he would take care of it then you keep posting about it. THEN he called you right?



This would never have happened if YOU didn't cause it. You keep posting on here. He's an emotional person and takes care of his customers. He told you that you could return it! From the begining you were getting taken care of.


Yea, I'm sure you NEVER EVER threatened him with some sort of "I'll call my credit card company" or "I'll call the BBB" or "I'll post on CalGuns". You're totally innocent right? :rolleyes:


It was, by your own statement, being taken care of. I don't understand why you just don't handle this with him directly. This whole thing is stupid.


whats you connection with the business/rob?

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 1:45 PM
DELETED BY MASTER YONG

Electric Factory
05-29-2009, 1:48 PM
Thanks for all the support guys, and sorry for the drama..I never intended on this thread becoming what it is.

Update: I contacted my credit card company, and they will be helping me out to the best of their abilities. I sent the stuff back to him, just so he would have the product in case I get refunded (credit card company already did it) and was recommended by by them to do so.

I also contacted Magpul about this, and they were extremely helpful and informative. They will be in contact with Rob they assured me.

Again, thanks for the support guys, and hopefully this gets resolved quickly

Handled like a gentleman.:thumbsup:

cmace22
05-29-2009, 1:49 PM
I for one am effected by this thread and will not be doing any kind of buisness with this guy.

John Browning
05-29-2009, 1:50 PM
This will probably be the most expensive $95 that this store ever makes. Whoops! Talk about arrogance and not willing to make things right. I'd love to see this thread stickied at the top to prevent other Calgunners from getting ripped off.

Business lesson 1: When running an internet based business, don't piss off the internet.

unamused
05-29-2009, 1:53 PM
off topic... but why in the world would ANYONE buy the pts knock offs over the real deal when the price difference is SOMETIMES $5-$10 and sometimes its the same??

Arteel
05-29-2009, 1:54 PM
Great customer service. :rolleyes:

Electric Factory
05-29-2009, 1:55 PM
This will probably be the most expensive $95 that this store ever makes.


And that's the thing, what was he thinking ? Isn't having good word of mouth invaluable ?
Based on the facts as the OP presented them out this seems to me a big mistake.

RECCE556
05-29-2009, 2:04 PM
Business lesson 1: When running an internet based business, don't piss off the internet.Hahahahaha...that's great! http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:04 PM
Rob didn't even post in this thread. Everyone is jumping all over him and no one even talked to him. For a group of people who are supposed to beleive in fighting for our rights you sure don't give someone the right to defend themselves before you string them up and light them on fire.

I've bought stuff from him many times and received excellent service. He's local to me and a great person to deal with.

So many people just love to jump all over someone without the facts. I'm trying to stick up for him a little bit. Maybe I should just jump on the hate band-wagon like you guys.

Posting you won't be buying something from him because ONE person, in probly 10,000, had a bad experience is ignorant.

You can hate on me all you want because I don't care if you like me. I don't represent his company and I don't have anything to do with it. If you have something to say to me send me a PM and we can discuss it. Or we can have lunch!

sorensen440
05-29-2009, 2:05 PM
Wow that stores off my list of stores to buy from after what Ive read here

sorensen440
05-29-2009, 2:05 PM
Rob didn't even post in this thread. Everyone is jumping all over him and no one even talked to him. For a group of people who are supposed to beleive in fighting for our rights you sure don't give someone the right to defend themselves before you string them up and light them on fire.

He has had the right to defend himself in this thread since the first post but hasnt...

RECCE556
05-29-2009, 2:08 PM
jhaselton - it's not just about this one deal, it's about the way he's trying to sell airsoft parts for real guns saying they're just as good....it's about his mentality.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:10 PM
He has had the right to defend himself in this thread since the first post but hasnt...

Well he does WORK. He's not an internet geek like everyone on here! Give the guy a chance before you guys lynch him!

sorensen440
05-29-2009, 2:12 PM
Well he does WORK. He's not an internet geek like everyone on here! Give the guy a chance before you guys lynch him!


Actually Ive looked at his profile a couple times since this thread started and he has been watching it very closely

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 2:14 PM
DELETED BY MASTER YONG

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:14 PM
jhaselton - it's not just about this one deal, it's about the way he's trying to sell airsoft parts for real guns saying they're just as good....it's about his mentality.

How many people use airsoft parts on their real guns? I'm betting a lot do. I've seen a TON of people with Aimpoint clones and fake Grip Pods. How many GSG stocks have been sold here? I know I have a GSG stock. I bought it from eBay.

Kestryll
05-29-2009, 2:17 PM
So before anyone starts slinging more mud why don't we chill a bit and give the retailer in question a chance to respond WITHOUT everyone falling on him like lions on a wildebeest?

I'm not surprised he's been watching this, I would be too.
And given the mob mentality I'd likely not want to post anything either!

You guys are now all upset because he hasn't responded but you've already crucified him before you asked why he didn't respond.

Nice.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:17 PM
Actually Ive looked at his profile a couple times since this thread started and he has been watching it very closely

How do you know it's him and not his girlfriend? He's openning a store front and has been there pretty much 24/7 all week. I know, because I went by there the other day to meet him and get a CTR stock.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:18 PM
So before anyone starts slinging more mud why don't we chill a bit and give the retailer in question a chance to respond WITHOUT everyone falling on him like lions on a wildebeest?

I'm not surprised he's been watching this, I would be too.
And given the mob mentality I'd likely not want to post anything either!

You guys are now all upset because he hasn't responded but you've already crucified him before you asked why he didn't respond.

Nice.

AMEN Brother! A------MEN!

Kestryll
05-29-2009, 2:19 PM
NO MORE, from THIS point on...

:mad:

He need to REMOVE those sights from his "AR15/AR10 Rifle" section.

Full apology + refund (item + shipping)!!

Remove false ad of "Magpul Industries Corp" from that PTS product, or we should report this to Magpul Ind.

So can you tell me one thing?

JUST WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO BE SETTING TERMS!!?!?!?

You're NOT the OP with a problem.
You're NOT the retailer.
You're NOT on Staff here.

So other then making you OWN choice what's your deal?

BONECUTTER
05-29-2009, 2:19 PM
off topic... but why in the world would ANYONE buy the pts knock offs over the real deal when the price difference is SOMETIMES $5-$10 and sometimes its the same??

I have a set of PTS MBUS's. My buddy bought them when he got tired of waiting for the Magpul ones. When the magpul ones came out I bought the PTS ones off him for $20.00 :43: They are on my 22lr AR now and work just fine.

Both are very tough and work just fine. Other than PTS on the front I can't tell the difference. But I can see some people not wanting made in asia sights.

ajaffe
05-29-2009, 2:20 PM
Rob didn't even post in this thread. Everyone is jumping all over him and no one even talked to him. For a group of people who are supposed to beleive in fighting for our rights you sure don't give someone the right to defend themselves before you string them up and light them on fire.

I've bought stuff from him many times and received excellent service. He's local to me and a great person to deal with.

So many people just love to jump all over someone without the facts. I'm trying to stick up for him a little bit. Maybe I should just jump on the hate band-wagon like you guys.

Posting you won't be buying something from him because ONE person, in probly 10,000, had a bad experience is ignorant.

You can hate on me all you want because I don't care if you like me. I don't represent his company and I don't have anything to do with it. If you have something to say to me send me a PM and we can discuss it. Or we can have lunch!

What? The facts are that the OP posted nothing negative about getting PTS parts instead of the real deal. He told the truth in that he was going to eat the shipping costs to return them. And then the vendor said that he was no longer accepting the item as a return due to the thread. On top of it all you came prancing in here representing and defending the vendor.

Your logic is kind of flawed here. People with clonepoints and such pay a FAR lesser price than they would have for the real deal. In this case, Erob paid for an item that is priced VERY closely to the real deal for a knockoff part.

Just seeing that one line alone on the website and the description for the MBUS, I would never buy from him as it shows a clear line of thought going into deceiving a trusting buyer. I for one like to give vendors the benefit of the doubt, but not when they try to screw people over.

This whole thing reminds me of the lady that got dominated by Judge Judy for hiding the "you are buying a picture of a cell phone" text within a long auction description for a cell phone.

Kestryll
05-29-2009, 2:20 PM
No longer relevant.

dchang0
05-29-2009, 2:21 PM
So many people just love to jump all over someone without the facts.

Dude, no offense, but you jumped all over the OP by saying, among other things:


customer gets crazy on the phone so vendor says they won't take the product back now.

How does anyone who wasn't on the phone call know who got crazy and who didn't? Maybe they both got crazy. Maybe it was just Rob, and maybe it was just the OP. Or maybe it was totally civil. So far, all we've got is the OP's side of the story, and so far, he seems pretty reasonable and level-headed.

If you know Rob, please invite him to step in and defend himself (coolly and civilly, of course--it would hurt his business to rant).

Kestryll
05-29-2009, 2:22 PM
What? The facts are that the OP posted nothing negative about getting PTS parts instead of the real deal.

No, just EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOTHER JUMPED IN AND DID THAT!

Or did you NOT read the thread?

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:24 PM
Dude, no offense, but you jumped all over the OP by saying, among other things:



How does anyone who wasn't on the phone call know who got crazy and who didn't? Maybe they both got crazy. Maybe it was just Rob, and maybe it was just the OP. Or maybe it was totally civil. So far, all we've got is the OP's side of the story, and so far, he seems pretty reasonable and level-headed.

If you know Rob, please invite him to step in and defend himself (coolly and civilly, of course--it would hurt his business to rant).

My post about the events were purely speculation just like everyone else. If you guys can speculate about what Rob said why can't I speculate about what the customer said?

ajaffe
05-29-2009, 2:24 PM
No, just EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOTHER JUMPED IN AND DID THAT!

Or did you NOT read the thread?

I realize this, but why should Erob/OP be punished for what the pitchfork and torches club did? To me the vendor should have just let it slide and posted a simple, "The item is being returned and I will be refunding the OP as soon as I get them in." That would have solved almost all the issues and left little to gripe about.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:27 PM
Your logic is kind of flawed here. People with clonepoints and such pay a FAR lesser price than they would have for the real deal. In this case, Erob paid for an item that is priced VERY closely to the real deal for a knockoff part.

Just seeing that one line alone on the website and the description for the MBUS, I would never buy from him as it shows a clear line of thought going into deceiving a trusting buyer. I for one like to give vendors the benefit of the doubt, but not when they try to screw people over.



His price on these has always been the same. AND he's in line with what everone else is charging for them online. AND he had them before the MBUS for rifles came out. Look at the date on his orignal post.

Kestryll
05-29-2009, 2:28 PM
I realize this, but why should Erob/OP be punished for what the pitchfork and torches club did? To me the vendor should have just let it slide and posted a simple, "The item is being returned and I will be refunding the OP as soon as I get them in." That would have solved almost all the issues and left little to gripe about.

In what way is he being punished?

All that has been said is to back off a bit and give the retailer a chance to respond WITHOUT the lynchmob mentality.

So where's the punishment?

dchang0
05-29-2009, 2:29 PM
My post about the events were purely speculation just like everyone else. If you guys can speculate about what Rob said why can't I speculate about what the customer said?

It's absolutely all right for you to speculate, but it is hypocritical to then complain about everyone else wildly speculating, a la:


So many people just love to jump all over someone without the facts.

Rob, where are you? Tell your side of the story and put this sucker to rest!

Kestryll
05-29-2009, 2:31 PM
Now, if this can be discussed in a CIVIL manner maybe we can get a reply from the retailer.

I think there are legitimate questions being asked but they are being asked in a very confrontational and aggressive manner which will NOT help.

Instead of becoming a giant furball I'd like to see some responses myself.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:32 PM
It's absolutely all right for you to speculate, but it is hypocritical to then complain about everyone else wildly speculating, a la:

Rob, where are you? Tell your side of the story and put this sucker to rest!

Exactly my point!

If Rob did something wrong let him fix it. But lynching him and people saying they're not going to buy anything from him is not right. I know life isn't fair but this is rediculous!

sorensen440
05-29-2009, 2:32 PM
Exactly my point!

If Rob did something wrong let him fix it. But lynching him and people saying they're not going to buy anything from him is not right. I know life isn't fair but this is rediculous!
welcome to the internet

ajaffe
05-29-2009, 2:33 PM
His price on these has always been the same. AND he's in line with what everone else is charging for them online. AND he had them before the MBUS for rifles came out. Look at the date on his orignal post.

I could care less about the history. I am talking about simple $XX versus $YY. Clonepoints on average are around 100 bucks, real Aimpoints are around 400 bucks. That right there is why a lot of people buy clonepoints as they are 300 or so dollars cheaper. In this instance, there is little to no money difference, so why would one want to pay the same price for a knockoff product?

ajaffe
05-29-2009, 2:34 PM
In what way is he being punished?

All that has been said is to back off a bit and give the retailer a chance to respond WITHOUT the lynchmob mentality.

So where's the punishment?

The punishment is where the vendor said to the OP (sure this is hearsay at this point) that he will no longer be accepting the item as a return and issue a refund as earlier agreed upon. The OP didn't do the negative accusations, the internets did.

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 2:35 PM
DELETED BY MASTER YONG

dchang0
05-29-2009, 2:36 PM
Exactly my point!

If Rob did something wrong let him fix it. But lynching him and people saying they're not going to buy anything from him is not right. I know life isn't fair but this is rediculous!

Glad that you and I see eye to eye--adding to the speculation is like pouring gasoline on the fire, so we should all refrain from any further speculation.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:37 PM
welcome to the internet

If this is what Calguns is supposed to be then maybe I don't want to be welcomed!

I imagine a place where PRO 2A and gun nuts like myself can enjoy a good conversation and share our stories. Not run each other up a pole and burn it to the ground.

geez, you've been a member for WAY longer than me. Maybe you're just a custom to what this site has become. Or maybe you're part of the problem by not trying to make it a better place!

I don't think Kestryl wants his site to have the lynchmob mentality you encourage with your one liners and smart comments.

rmasold
05-29-2009, 2:39 PM
To everyone that has posted on this very long thread, I apologize for not responding sooner.

I did speak with the customer and had no problem in refunding his charges after he explained that the part he ordered was not what he wanted. My concern is that after speaking with this customer he decided to continue the thread and give me negative feedback. I pride myself in the excellant customer service that I give to all my customers and do not understand the negative feedback that I am getting from people that have not had any experience with me. Each customer that I have dealed with has thanked me for always going above and beyond with my customer service. Since I did not have a store at the time, I would meet anyone at anytime to ensure they received their product. If and when there was an issue (which was very seldom) I have never had any problems with refunding the money. Even when a customer had purchased an item and has not fit their gun once they got home, I would make sure that I would return it for them. That is what great customer service is.

I am unsure if I will be able to make this specific customer happy at this time, but I am a man of my word and have no problems in refunding his money. Anyone can go back and verify what descriptions were posted on my website for this product, but nothing was modified after this thread started, and it was not passed as something that it was not. I am always upfront and honest with all of my customers, and it is apparant that the dexription on this product was not read. I am however, a man of my word and will still give this customer a refund.

I did notice that all other products purchased were not referenced on this posting. I am going to assume that is because everything else ordered met his expectations. If not, please do not hesitate to notify me and I will refund them as well.

To those of you who state you will not visit my shop because of this posting, I hope you rethink your decision and come to our Grand Opening to meet me and my staff on June 13th. It never fails that when being in sales, you will come across someone who is unsatisfied but what is important is how you deal with them and do all that is possible to keep them happy. Again, I am sorry that the product that was ordered did not fit the customer needs. I have many happy customers and am very surprised at all of the negativity surrounding this purchase.

** Please remember that I am preparing for a show and will not have access to my computer.

Thanks
Rob

Kestryll
05-29-2009, 2:42 PM
Woah woah woah woah WOOAAAHHHHH there, buddy!

Since when did speculation become a direct accusation? There's no reason to freak out Kestryll. Here:

SPECULATE:
1-
a: to meditate on or ponder a subject
b: to review something idly or casually and often inconclusively

ACCUSE:
1-
: to charge with a fault or offense : blame

There's your English lesson for the day. I was CLEARLY speculating, which is, in and of itself completely and mutually exclusive from accusing. If you're going to make ACCUSATIONS yourself about public forums and such, please be aware that we are all posting in English. Do not read past the English that I typed. I was very clear in my intentions. The OP wanted to know what was up, and was obviously looking for suggestions. I told him what I speculated to be a worst-case scenario.

Calm down- I've done nothing to you.

If you work for or own stock in the business in question (seems unlikely that it's publicly traded) then I apologize. Otherwise, my post had nothing to do with you, so don't take it so personally.

Actually YES it DOES have something to do with me.

You are using MY forum to cast your aspersions so guess what, it DOES involve me.

And please don't try to play me for a fool.

Unless you are a COMPLETE neophyte to the internet in general and forums in particular you KNOW that the so called 'idle speculation' statements are the fastest way to start and spread BS.

'Speculation', posted with NOTHING to back it up can do immense damage to ANY business in this day and age and as stated unless this is your first outing on to the internet you should be well aware of that.

If you have proof, something to back it up or ANYTHING to substantiate your posited theory, fine.
If not you're doing nothing but causing more harm and more problems in an already unpleasant situation.

ajaffe
05-29-2009, 2:44 PM
Can you please address the phone conversation that the OP posted about? It seems like someone is lieing and that an apology is in order, whether it be the OP or yourself.

jhaselton: Pot, kettle, black. Further, a lot of people here have a lynch mentality because they do not want to see fellow shooters being taken advantage of (not saying that is or is not what happened here), so they stand up for one another.

dchang0
05-29-2009, 2:45 PM
Great answer by Rob. Honoring his verbal agreement to refund the OP is all I need to know that he's a man of integrity and a good businessman. Refunds are like the "litmus test" of retail businesses.

Jicko
05-29-2009, 2:46 PM
Bottomline is... Magpul PTS MBUS is not a Magpul Industries Corp product!

This page is just "false":
http://www.sacramentoblackrifle.com/product_p/mpl-mpts027.htm

With or without this particular transaction between OP and this store.

Reconsnake
05-29-2009, 2:47 PM
From the outside looking in, I see a threat made here by the op:

before I give out the website, i'm going to call and see if he'll make it right. If not, Ill post the address up.

Then I am guessing he expected to have the dealer pay for shipping here:

The dealer was www.sacramentoblackrifle.com refered to me by a fellow calgunner.

at least I can get most of the 95$ bucks I paid

Then on the picture itself, almost as big as the sight it clearly show "PTS" labeled directly on it. While it may not be what the op wanted, still does not seem to me like it is the dealer's fault. You as a buyer are as responsible as the seller, to make sure you what you are buying is what you want. If everyone ordered something, decided they didnt like it, then returned it expecting the dealer to refund the shipping, then the only people making a living will be the shipping company.

I think a refund less shipping was an adequate resolution, and I am betting the op's credit card company will think the same. I have made many purchases from Sac Black Rifle, and I am 100% satisfied with them.

dchang0
05-29-2009, 2:48 PM
Whoa, guys--let's not ruin a happy ending (no, not that kind of happy ending) between the OP and Rob. Rob's spoken, and the deal looks to close on a high note.

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:50 PM
I knew Rob was going to take care of the customer. I just wanted you guys to give him a chance!

jhaselton: Pot, kettle, black. Further, a lot of people here have a lynch mentality because they do not want to see fellow shooters being taken advantage of (not saying that is or is not what happened here), so they stand up for one another.
No one was taken advantage of here. You guys (not necessarily you) jump to conclusions and start flaming away. You should fight to protect your good vendors who offer calguners special discounts too! The vendors contribute to this site as well.

Kestryll
05-29-2009, 2:51 PM
Further, a lot of people here have a lynch mentality because they do not want to see fellow shooters being taken advantage of (not saying that is or is not what happened here), so they stand up for one another.

And often times by causing more drama and animosity they hamper rather then help.

I have NEVER seen ANY problem have a satisfactory conclusion brought on by piling on and 'cyber-lynching' someone.

I HAVE seen things get worked out when the two parties can discuss it without all the noise from uninvolved parties however

jhaselton
05-29-2009, 2:51 PM
Whoa, guys--let's not ruin a happy ending (no, not that kind of happy ending) between the OP and Rob. Rob's spoken, and the deal looks to close on a high note.

I agree, maybe Kestryl can lock this one now.

dchang0
05-29-2009, 2:53 PM
I agree, maybe Kestryl can lock this one now.

Definitely got my vote!

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 2:55 PM
Actually YES it DOES have something to do with me.

You are using MY forum to cast your aspersions so guess what, it DOES involve me.

And please don't try to play me for a fool.

Unless you are a COMPLETE neophyte to the internet in general and forums in particular you KNOW that the so called 'idle speculation' statements are the fastest way to start and spread BS.

'Speculation', posted with NOTHING to back it up can do immense damage to ANY business in this day and age and as stated unless this is your first outing on to the internet you should be well aware of that.

If you have proof, something to back it up or ANYTHING to substantiate your posited theory, fine.
If not you're doing nothing but causing more harm and more problems in an already unpleasant situation.

Alright, then I apologize, as I did not see in the forum rules that my opinion doesn't matter. I also didn't see that you were essentially a Mod, so no matter how much I disagree with your assertions it is wrong of me to argue. Seeing that I am NOT a complete noob as you have speculated (accused?) I can tell you that it would typically never be my intention to argue with a Mod. There are so many "founding fathers" of this forum I can't remember all of your usernames at all times, and I admit that I responded emotionally as you were attacking my character for what I will still maintain is no good reason. Again, I apologize.

I do not, however, appreciate being attacked. Seriously. And I've been building, maintaining, and programming since I was 8 (computers and software that is, not rifles and robots). I have never seen any kind of rule in online etiquette that speculation is always seen as an intent to spread BS. If that has been your experience then I apologize but I am not a troll.

To be fair, my post was very early on in this discussion, and I had no intent to slander the dealer. At the time, the OP made it clear that he did not intend to even reveal the identity of the dealer, so it did not occur to me that my post may cause so much harm.

Sounds like the two of us has had a misunderstanding. Again, for the fourth time in this post, I apologize. Hopefully you can take the benefit of the doubt and see that I am not a malicious person, and that I have no intent of starting flame wars or trolling in your forum. I thought this was a thread for opinions, apparently I was mistaken.

rmasold
05-29-2009, 2:57 PM
Thread started 5/29/09 2:49am
807 Views
101 Replies
100% Customer Satisfaction........PRICELESS :thumbsup:

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 3:02 PM
To everyone that has posted on this very long thread, I apologize for not responding sooner.

I did speak with the customer and had no problem in refunding his charges after he explained that the part he ordered was not what he wanted. My concern is that after speaking with this customer he decided to continue the thread and give me negative feedback. I pride myself in the excellant customer service that I give to all my customers and do not understand the negative feedback that I am getting from people that have not had any experience with me. Each customer that I have dealed with has thanked me for always going above and beyond with my customer service. Since I did not have a store at the time, I would meet anyone at anytime to ensure they received their product. If and when there was an issue (which was very seldom) I have never had any problems with refunding the money. Even when a customer had purchased an item and has not fit their gun once they got home, I would make sure that I would return it for them. That is what great customer service is.

I am unsure if I will be able to make this specific customer happy at this time, but I am a man of my word and have no problems in refunding his money. Anyone can go back and verify what descriptions were posted on my website for this product, but nothing was modified after this thread started, and it was not passed as something that it was not. I am always upfront and honest with all of my customers, and it is apparant that the dexription on this product was not read. I am however, a man of my word and will still give this customer a refund.

I did notice that all other products purchased were not referenced on this posting. I am going to assume that is because everything else ordered met his expectations. If not, please do not hesitate to notify me and I will refund them as well.

To those of you who state you will not visit my shop because of this posting, I hope you rethink your decision and come to our Grand Opening to meet me and my staff on June 13th. It never fails that when being in sales, you will come across someone who is unsatisfied but what is important is how you deal with them and do all that is possible to keep them happy. Again, I am sorry that the product that was ordered did not fit the customer needs. I have many happy customers and am very surprised at all of the negativity surrounding this purchase.

** Please remember that I am preparing for a show and will not have access to my computer.

Thanks
Rob

Rob-

Your post was relevant, eloquent, and succinct. Thanks for sorting things out for us. I am going to do my best to edit any previous posts that I may have made in this thread about your company as I have had no dealings with you. To be honest, it's not fair of me to avoid a company that I have no direct experience with, just because of one story I heard online from someone that I have never met. I responded in such a way that may have been construed as an attack on your company, and for that I apologize.

Good luck with your Grand Opening. I live too far from Sac to attend, but I often pass through on business and I'll stop by if I can (gun shops are my version of a toy store, as I'm sure is true for most other members here).

Way to stand behind your original intent, to take the return from the customer. I too find it odd that he didn't mention the other products- I don't see how he could have fought *part* of a CC charge. Hopefully he'll keep the products and leave the CC company alone.

Good luck with your business! :thumbsup:

Kestryll
05-29-2009, 3:02 PM
Alright, then I apologize, as I did not see in the forum rules that my opinion doesn't matter. I also didn't see that you were essentially a Mod, so no matter how much I disagree with your assertions it is wrong of me to argue. Seeing that I am NOT a complete noob as you have speculated (accused?) I can tell you that it would typically never be my intention to argue with a Mod. There are so many "founding fathers" of this forum I can't remember all of your usernames at all times, and I admit that I responded emotionally as you were attacking my character for what I will still maintain is no good reason. Again, I apologize.

I do not, however, appreciate being attacked. Seriously. And I've been building, maintaining, and programming since I was 8 (computers and software that is, not rifles and robots). I have never seen any kind of rule in online etiquette that speculation is always seen as an intent to spread BS. If that has been your experience then I apologize but I am not a troll.

To be fair, my post was very early on in this discussion, and I had no intent to slander the dealer. At the time, the OP made it clear that he did not intend to even reveal the identity of the dealer, so it did not occur to me that my post may cause so much harm.

Sounds like the two of us has had a misunderstanding. Again, for the fourth time in this post, I apologize. Hopefully you can take the benefit of the doubt and see that I am not a malicious person, and that I have no intent of starting flame wars or trolling in your forum. I thought this was a thread for opinions, apparently I was mistaken.

I don't think you were trying to troll or start a flame war at all.

Yes, there were extenuating circumstances in this, both the timing in the overall thread and the decision by the OP to first not reveal the store and then to reveal the store.

While I don't think your intent was to harm anyone by the progression of the thread it became just one of several 'spot fires' that needed to be addressed before they caused an even bigger flame up.

This IS a forum for opinion but that opinion comes with a responsibility.
Our words have meaning and carry consequences, sometimes for others and not for us.

It was NOT my intent to attack your character but to address the potential problem as it existed.
If it came across that way I apologize.

avidone
05-29-2009, 3:06 PM
Hey, before this does get locked, in defense of the OP, I saw those sights listed on the website and almost ordered them too. They did not say "use for airsoft" at that time. I decided to call SBR and was told on the phone that they were made by a division of Magpul for airsoft.

They are for airsoft however they are not made by Magpul. I researched elsewhere and confirmed that they were not made by Magpul and decided not to buy them. I do feel it is misleading to place the Magpul logo above this product.

In defense of SBR, I have had a very good experience with a purchase from them but this is really a separate issue that I hoped would be addressed by the SBR. People seem to be mixing the two issues here.

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 3:07 PM
I don't think you were trying to troll or start a flame war at all.

Yes, there were extenuating circumstances in this, both the timing in the overall thread and the decision by the OP to first not reveal the store and then to reveal the store.

While I don't think your intent was to harm anyone by the progression of the thread it became just one of several 'spot fires' that needed to be addressed before they caused an even bigger flame up.

This IS a forum for opinion but that opinion comes with a responsibility.
Our words have meaning and carry consequences, sometimes for others and not for us.

It was NOT my intent to attack your character but to address the potential problem as it existed.
If it came across that way I apologize.

Thanks. I think we're good now.

I've deleted (edited) my earlier posts to prevent any confusion, as it appears the the business owner is now here to attempt to set the record straight.

RECCE556
05-29-2009, 3:10 PM
Rob, please do the right thing and update that products web page. PTS is not a division of Magpul, those are not "real steel" Magpul sights...at the very least, it should CLEARLY state that they're for AIRSOFT.

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 3:32 PM
Hey, before this does get locked, in defense of the OP, I saw those sights listed on the website and almost ordered them too. They did not say "use for airsoft" at that time. I decided to call SBR and was told on the phone that they were made by a division of Magpul for airsoft.

They are for airsoft however they are not made by Magpul. I researched elsewhere and confirmed that they were not made by Magpul and decided not to buy them. I do feel it is misleading to place the Magpul logo above this product.

In defense of SBR, I have had a very good experience with a purchase from them but this is really a separate issue that I hoped would be addressed by the SBR. People seem to be mixing the two issues here.

In all fairness, there IS a magpul logo on the sights (or so it appears from the product pic on the site, there may be a subtle difference that I'm overlooking). If magpul allows their logo on the sights, then it seems OK that the logo is used on the site.

When I first read your post I kept thinking "SBR" was "short barreled rifle" and was REALLY confused. Then I remembered Rob's shop is "Sacramento Black Rifle"....makes MUCH more sense that way. :)

eroberts88
05-29-2009, 3:48 PM
Im glad Rob responded and set everything straight. I never intended on this thread to become a flame war, just wanted some answers/suggestions.

Obviously according to Robs track record, my instance was the odd ball. Probably just a bad/stressful day. It happens to all of us at one time or another...and even if the advertisement was misleading, it was my fault for not reading it completely. Plain and simple.

Unfortunately, the matter is in the hands of my CC company. I hope Robs future business is not inhibited, and wish him success in his grand opening.

Arteel
05-29-2009, 4:33 PM
:grouphug: :D

aplinker
05-29-2009, 5:30 PM
I agree with this.

It's not "misleading," but it is certainly confusing. I'm certain the vendor doesn't want $ from people who buy PTS thinking they're actually Magpul.

I'd say most of the blame falls on Magpul, though. They need to manage their brand better. Nothing wrong with allowing a lower-grade replica be made, but they need to have control over just how it's marketed.

Rob, please do the right thing and update that products web page. PTS is not a division of Magpul, those are not "real steel" Magpul sights...at the very least, it should CLEARLY state that they're for AIRSOFT.

gimebakmybulits
05-29-2009, 8:58 PM
I agree with this.

It's not "misleading," but it is certainly confusing. I'm certain the vendor doesn't want $ from people who buy PTS thinking they're actually Magpul.

I'd say most of the blame falls on Magpul, though. They need to manage their brand better. Nothing wrong with allowing a lower-grade replica be made, but they need to have control over just how it's marketed.

The Magpul Industries GIF on this page is misleading, even most of the airsofters on Ebay use the Magpul-PTS logo correctly.
http://www.sacramentoblackrifle.com/product_p/mpl-mpts027.htm
http://www.sacramentoblackrifle.com/v/vspfiles/photos/manufacturers/magpul.gif

RECCE556
06-08-2009, 11:00 AM
webpage still not updated....

tango5
06-08-2009, 12:41 PM
I think it is BS for him to sell airsoft stuff together with real firearm stuff...

Magpul PTS sights DOES NOT belong on a AR-15!

http://www.sacramentoblackrifle.com/product_p/mpl-mpts027.htm

The biggest lie is that he put this logo above the sights
http://www.sacramentoblackrifle.com/v/vspfiles/photos/manufacturers/magpul.gif

This logo is Magpul Industries' logo. Magpul PTS is NOT manufactured by Magpul Industries. Magpul PTS products are manufactured by MAGPUL (ASIA) LIMITED, while the design is licensed by Magpul Industries for Training and Simulation (Airsoft) only.




I have no respect for a vendor like that!

I agree, official Magpul logo above the fake sights is saying to the consumer that these sights are made by Magpul. If you look at the sights in the photo, it even has a knock off replica logo, it looks like the Magpul symbol, but its different. Now to me, that's false advertisement, and if the seller doesn't honor the return, legally the buyer can sue for false advertisement, that's if it ever gets that far for a set of fake knock off product the seller is trying to pass off as the real thing.

BONECUTTER
06-08-2009, 1:07 PM
Now to me, that's false advertisement, and if the seller doesn't honor the return, legally the buyer can sue for false advertisement.

Anyone can sue for anything, but I doubt they will win. The PTS ones are licensed to used the Magpul likeness/logo/name.

The picture of the sights said PTS on the front. The product is called PTS MBUS. The description said "use with airsoft". Its not like it was hidden in paragraphs of info. Its two lines.

To me its buyer beware. Read everything and know what your buying before hand. If you don't know call first.

tango5
06-08-2009, 1:15 PM
Anyone can sue for anything, but I doubt they will win. The PTS ones are licensed to used the Magpul likeness/logo/name.

The picture of the sights said PTS on the front. The product is called PTS MBUS. The description said "use with airsoft". Its not like it was hidden in paragraphs of info. Its two lines.

To me its buyer beware. Read everything and know what your buying before hand. If you don't know call first.

So Magpul knowingly changes their logo for their airsoft products to look similar to their normal logo? :rolleyes:

Mute
06-08-2009, 1:47 PM
The makers of the PTS sights most likely paid a fee to Magpul to be allowed to make these sights and also use the logo that they use. Since Magpul knows about the existence of these sights and all the marketing material associated with it and have not yet sued these guys for trademark violations, I think it's safe to assume that the PTS makers aren't doing this illegally.

BONECUTTER
06-08-2009, 1:48 PM
So Magpul knowingly changes their logo for their airsoft products to look similar to their normal logo? :rolleyes:

Magpul sells the rights to their likeness (logo,name,design) to and airsoft company.

Many other brands have done the same thing like Gemtech. It allows airsoft companys to produce realistic products without being sued and gives the real companies a little bit more money.

petrole
06-08-2009, 8:43 PM
Man.... is it me or did this thread feel like you were watching a John Hughes movie from the 80's? :thumbsup:

Alanski56
06-08-2009, 10:01 PM
I don't have a stake in this either way but I just came across an article in the August 2009 edition of Guns & Ammo Book of the AR-15 and on Page 6 "New Gear, New Year" Patrick Sweeney writes "Magpul will have its new BUIS available by the time you read this. They are spring-loaded, folding, and the body of each is made of polymer. They'll be durable, stylish, highly functional and come in all the current tacti-cool colors." On Page 7 there's a picture of the front BUIS and it looks just like the same unit in question, DWIW.

Have a nice evening.