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SigAlert
05-28-2009, 10:53 PM
Hi folks. A friend of mine is afraid to purchase a firearm because it will be 'regestered' to him.

I say, after the 10 day background check, records are destroyed. When, I'm not sure.

Any thoughts?

bwiese
05-28-2009, 10:58 PM
In Ca there's a record of handgun sales/papered transfers - they're "DROSed" to you by make/model/serial#.

In theory, rifle information is not stored (and probably generally true).

However, that's all moot because the FFL keeps a copy of the 4473; if he goes outta business the 4473s are sent to BATF repository in Landover, MD.

Backtracing a gun from mfgr thru distribution & dealer is not that hard.

His concerns are kinda irrelevant: if he used a VISA or M/C card to buy the gun - even if it were not papered in CA - it'd still be obvious what a $750 purchase at a gunshop was for.

MrClamperSir
05-29-2009, 2:01 AM
If it is whats the problem?

Quiet
05-29-2009, 3:26 AM
If it is whats the problem?

:TFH:

AaronHorrocks
05-29-2009, 6:54 AM
Buy a parts kit, and attend a build party. Have him manufacture his own firearm.

r08ert209cali
05-29-2009, 7:01 AM
let him use the old stick and nail for a weapon.:TFH:

Fjold
05-29-2009, 9:12 AM
Like it was said above, have him bend his own receiver flats and build an AK patterned rifle.

Does he own a car?

BTW, I wouldn't hang around with him. I would be worried that if he really wants a gun but doesn't want it registered to him sooner or later he is going to do something stupid. Don't be with him when he does it.

dilligaffrn
05-29-2009, 9:16 AM
C and R long-guns over 50 years old, cash and carry no paperwork, 100% legal

ie. Russian SKS, M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, 03 Springfield etc.

The Wingnut
05-29-2009, 9:24 AM
Yep! Plenty of 100% legal options to go around, and there are lots of 50+ year old firearms out there that are every bit as reliable / functional as a modern one.

I kinda wish I'd had the funds for a parts kit and a flat and attended the recent Santa Rosa build party, would have been fun and I'd have a nice battle rifle for my efforts that is 100% mine!

Greg-Dawg
05-29-2009, 9:24 AM
Hi folks. A friend of mine is afraid to purchase a firearm because it will be 'regestered' to him.

Any thoughts?

Your friend will be in much greater fear when his life is in immanent with nothing to defend himself.

bwiese
05-29-2009, 9:29 AM
L
BTW, I wouldn't hang around with him. I would be worried that if he really wants a gun but doesn't want it registered to him sooner or later he is going to do something stupid. Don't be with him when he does it.

Good point. When I've heard these questions before from others it seems there was worry about prohibiting misdemeanors, etc.

It's generally a good idea not to hang out with 'problem people'.

Flopper
05-29-2009, 9:29 AM
I would be worried that if he really wants a gun but doesn't want it registered to him sooner or later he is going to do something stupid.

that's a bad assumption, to say the least.

AaronHorrocks
05-29-2009, 9:39 AM
Good point. When I've heard these questions before from others it seems there was worry about prohibiting misdemeanors, etc.

It's generally a good idea not to hang out with 'problem people'.

Being in fear of the government makes you a "problem person"? :eek:

Beelzy
05-29-2009, 10:25 AM
LOL!!!
Another Democrat wants a gun............I'll bet $20 on it.

The telltale sign is, " I don't want Big Brother to know I have one".

SigAlert
05-29-2009, 10:30 AM
Some good information here.

But as far as the tinfoil hat brigade, you all rally against FUD, but when you have a chance to introduce someone to the California gun culture who has some genuine (albeit misguided) concerns and you pull this crap.

Which is precisely why I posted instead of suggesting my friend come here to do it.

I'm also surprised at the ugly turn this thread took. It went from a request for information, to being judgmental of someone's motives. There was nothing in my post to suggest this was a "problem person", and you have no right to slap that label on someone. He's ill-informed. That's all.

The Wingnut
05-29-2009, 10:34 AM
...indeed. We know nothing about the person in question. Why scare off a potential new Calgunner?

KCM222
05-29-2009, 10:49 AM
Being in fear of the government makes you a "problem person"? :eek:


Yes, didn't you see the DoHLS memo? Just about everyone on this board is a "problem person"...especially Bill :43:

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 11:16 AM
BTW, I wouldn't hang around with him. I would be worried that if he really wants a gun but doesn't want it registered to him sooner or later he is going to do something stupid. Don't be with him when he does it.

+1 :thumbsup:

I'd be a little worried about anyone that didn't want "the man" to know he had a gun. What does he plan on doing with it that he needs to keep his record clean of firearms purchases?

If he's just worried about "the man" coming to take his guns, then he shouldn't be. If he doesn't buy one because "they'll know" then when "they" come for his guns he wont have one. If he DOES buy one and "they know" he has it and "they" come for his guns and he gives it up them he still wont have one. In the end, the result is the same.

Guess he coulda watched Red Dawn one too many times (if that's possible). One of the first things the Russians did in that flick was track down all the gun owners using registration records and receipts and put them in the detention camp......

THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING!!! AAAAAHHHH!!! :TFH:

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 11:18 AM
Some good information here.

But as far as the tinfoil hat brigade, you all rally against FUD, but when you have a chance to introduce someone to the California gun culture who has some genuine (albeit misguided) concerns and you pull this crap.

Which is precisely why I posted instead of suggesting my friend come here to do it.

I'm also surprised at the ugly turn this thread took. It went from a request for information, to being judgmental of someone's motives. There was nothing in my post to suggest this was a "problem person", and you have no right to slap that label on someone. He's ill-informed. That's all.

Dude- someone not wanting the gov't to know they have a rifle IS :TFH:

It's not ill-informed, it's paranoid. It's his right as an American to have a gun. God forbid the US Gov't know that he is exercising his 2nd A rights like 30 million other Americans.

AaronHorrocks
05-29-2009, 1:04 PM
There's only 30 million of us? I thought it was more like 90 million.

KCM222
05-29-2009, 1:11 PM
Dude- someone not wanting the gov't to know they have a rifle IS :TFH:

It's not ill-informed, it's paranoid. It's his right as an American to have a gun. God forbid the US Gov't know that he is exercising his 2nd A rights like 30 million other Americans.

It may be paranoid, but it's a topic frequently brought up when talking about registration - the fact that if the government knows you have arms then they know who to confiscate them from.

If someone genuinely believes that registration leads to confiscation then they would probably want to know about any legal ways to not have to register and would probably be worried about the registration.

The OP has stated his friend is just ill informed, and the friend is probably trying to figure out what he has the legal right to do. And as a consequence he is being irked by gun control.

Obviously this shouldn't be a reason to not go through with the purchase, but paranoia doesn't mean someone is a criminal, or thinking of becoming one.

AaronHorrocks
05-29-2009, 1:18 PM
It may be paranoid, but it's a topic frequently brought up when talking about registration - the fact that if the government knows you have arms then they know who to confiscate them from.

If someone genuinely believes that registration leads to confiscation then they would probably want to know about any legal ways to not have to register and would probably be worried about the registration.

History has proven time and time again that nothing good comes of registration. It always leads to confiscation. Sometimes it leads to getting hung, your head chopped off, or getting shoved in an oven.


The OP has stated his friend is just ill informed, and the friend is probably trying to figure out what he has the legal right to do. And as a consequence he is being irked by gun control.

Perhaps he's actually INFORMED, rather than ill informed. While the DOJ is supposed to throw out those records, there was a case where the DOJ had fought that fact, claiming that going through thier database and deleting all that information was labor-intensive and that they couldn't keep up with it. They won. They have your name, the have your number. Your records are on file. No tin foil needed.

MasterYong
05-29-2009, 1:32 PM
There's only 30 million of us? I thought it was more like 90 million.

See, now even folks that complain about FUD might end up spreading it anyways (I mean me). I didn't look up the figure, and I'm not going to now, I just for some reason remember there being 30 million gun owners in the US per tons and tons of news reports and such. Guess I shouldn't repeat it without looking first!

I looked around a bit and as I'm sure the numbers will be different depending on what website you use, but one from 2005 shows that 40% of americans own guns. I thought it was WAY less than that, which is AWESOME that it's actually 40%. If there are 310 million Americans, then that's 124 million gun owners. Cool. I'm sure that 30 million, 90 million, and 124 million are all incorrect tho. I'm not sure there's too many accurate gun statistics out there with all the antis trying to constantly stir the pot.

KCM222
05-29-2009, 1:55 PM
History has proven time and time again that nothing good comes of registration. It always leads to confiscation. Sometimes it leads to getting hung, your head chopped off, or getting shoved in an oven.

Exactly.

I said "may be paranoid" for the sake of argument and for the possibility that the OP's friend would let registration stop him from actually going through with the purchase.

My reference to him being "ill informed" mainly was in reference to the possibility that he may not know if there is a way to get around registration.

I asked the same sort of questions when I bought my first rifle.

The Wingnut
05-29-2009, 2:53 PM
I see nothing wrong with wanting to keep a low profile and stay off the books. That does not indicate wrongdoing, or a predisposition to it, if anything it speaks of caution and a misunderstanding or easily remedied ignorance of the law.

Considering all the FUD spread by media and even many firearms owners, it's no wonder people are running scared. At least this guy has the discretion to not want to make a blip of himself on the radar. Again, we know nothing about the person in question. what happened to assuming innocence until proven otherwise?

I certainly prefer to acquire my longarms off the books. All of them are C&R. The less the government knows about me, the less they can make my life difficult. I'm still a law-abiding citizen and even a DoD employee.

nobody_special
05-29-2009, 6:21 PM
This state has confiscated weapons from registered law-abiding owners in the past. I completely understand and agree with people who wish to avoid registration.

And there's a substantial difference between form 4473 and CA's registration scheme. The former allows for the gun to be traced to a purchaser, while the latter allows for people to be traced to their guns.