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View Full Version : Constitutional Amendment (2A, CCW, AWB)


ChuckBooty
05-28-2009, 5:36 PM
I was just reading a story on how it is (too?) easy to amend California's state constitution. Looking at Prop 8....petitions, ballot, bam! So I'd like to know if the CGF along with maybe the NRA or some other acronym would consider trying to put together a ballot initiative amending the state constitution to give us everything we're fighting for in the courts. Seems like it'd be a faster and easier process....if there was money behind it.

Matt C
05-28-2009, 5:38 PM
I was just reading a story on how it is (too?) easy to amend California's state constitution. Looking at Prop 8....petitions, ballot, bam! So I'd like to know if the CGF along with maybe the NRA or some other acronym would consider trying to put together a ballot initiative amending the state constitution to give us everything we're fighting for in the courts. Seems like it'd be a faster and easier process....if there was money behind it.

It's been tried before... Not really needed now since we have incorporation.

DDT
05-28-2009, 5:40 PM
"Too easy" is what those who oppose an amendment and lose always say. "Too hard" is what those who try and fail say.


For our purposes it is "too expensive."

Alphahookups
05-28-2009, 6:05 PM
...and to add to DDT, for us it may very well be counterproductive. We have incorporation and we have a few good gun cases coming up, so if we take something to the ballot and fail, it can very well turn the tide on our gun movement.

Sgt Raven
05-28-2009, 6:23 PM
Ask Don Kilmer and Geoff Metcalf about trying to get support from the NRA or GOA for one. :rolleyes:

hoffmang
05-28-2009, 6:32 PM
There may be a time for a pro gun initiative in California, but that time is not yet. It could be a very good way to cement wins or clean up edges after all the Federal challenges are done and the dust has settled.

That's probably a decade out though.

-Gene

Fred Flintstone
05-28-2009, 6:56 PM
There may be a time for a pro gun initiative in California, but that time is not yet. It could be a very good way to cement wins or clean up edges after all the Federal challenges are done and the dust has settled.

That's probably a decade out though.

-Gene

If I were a gambling man, I'd put all my money on the bet that we will not live to see the decade run out while still being the same United States of America. At best, we will witness and perhaps participate in overthrowing of the current government regime from top to bottom, at worst it will be all out civil war and complete revolution, or.. it will be the end of us and say hello to the New World Odor wafting up from the pile of sh******* that is currently acting as supreme dictator.

The economy alone.. that will stimulate whatever happens. They are spending money that doesn't exist. It will stimulate either a complete market collapse, or.. it might very well stimulate World War III. I can't tell you how many "talking heads" I've heard relate they fear China or Russia, or the both of them together will perform a first strike on us because of the wreckless spending that undermines the value of their "investments".

We won't see a decade from now with the same country, same laws, same mindset, etc. Look at Proposition 8 for an example. The good people are slowly putting forth their demands on those who would usurp this nation and ride right all over our better senses.

I think it is a fine idea to put forth a pro-gun proposition in California, but on the other hand, being a layman constitutionalist, we don't need one, we just need to adhere to what was already set forth over 100 years ago and remove our slave masters from office. The slaves, I mean, the good citizens of California, have long been flogged into submission and they just don't realize the power they really have and have squandered away while relaxing in their lazy boys watching the latest flicks on their wide screen TV's. But.. as I said, they are slowly organizing, slowly being rousted to action.

DDT
05-28-2009, 6:58 PM
I can't tell you how many "talking heads" I've heard relate they fear China or Russia, or the both of them together will perform a first strike on us because of the wreckless spending that undermines the value of their "investments".

ORLY?

hoffmang
05-28-2009, 7:15 PM
If I were a gambling man, I'd put all my money on the bet that we will not live to see the decade run out while still being the same United States of America.

Well, I'm your huckleberry and I'm sure I can cover that bet (just like Julian Simon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Lincoln_Simon#Wagers_with_rivals)). The message that this grand republic will not work has been told by so many on both sides of the political spectrum. Fatalism is just laughable. I bet you don't realize that you sound just like Erlich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb) and Gore?

So back to the point - this little civil rights movement is going to do quite well but may have some rough edges when we're done. That will also have shifted public opinion into a far less gun demonizing position. When that's the case, a petition has a lot better chance of passing.

-Gene

Fred Flintstone
05-28-2009, 7:45 PM
The message that this grand republic will not work has been told by so many on both sides of the political spectrum. Fatalism is just laughable.

Yeah, an object in motion tends to stay in motion along the same path. Yep, yep, yep, I know what you're saying but... as I said if I were a gambling man I'd bet there's going to be something that comes along and interferes with the object in motion principle. But there is no point in belittling me is there? I mean, you can say it's laughable but then, you can say what you like to, it doesn't make it right.

By any chance have you ever had the chance to read about the ancients? There is a lot of modern thought given to the ancients and prehistory. It is not all prehistoric. There are the vedas from India. Talking about ancient Rama Empire. References in the Ramayana about another civilization before them and survivors of them which point to Atlantis as a real prehistoric culture and place. Heck, even California is mentioned in the Ramayana, California and its tall red trees, taller than and larger than (Sequoias) anything else on the planet. This association alone should tell you that the vedas have more merit than bedtime story content, for aren't we instructed time and time and time again through our modern "history" books that California was discovered by Spanish explorers mid 1600's? for the very first time? So, how did the vedas which are known to be far older than 1600 AD contain this knowledge unless there's a whole series of true history that we just don't know about due to a fall of civilization? And talk about technology... Rama's "arrows" were able to go around the planet and split one of those tall trees in California in half and still make it back to India without falling. Yeah.. there has been a rise and fall of civilization, not once, not twice, it's been happening ever since mankind has set foot on this planet. And.. here's the amazing thing.. it always seemed to happen at a time when people were fairly well smug about technology being at a certain level that nothing would destroy civilization.

So, my bet, it would be a bet on the odds. Your bet would be one on the laughable factor. That means you should give me might good odds, right? After all, its laughable, right? What do you think? 100 to 1? 1000 to 1?

Cheers man, hope you're right and I'm wrong...

I bet you don't realize that you sound just like Erlich and Gore?

Nice little name-dropping there. I'm a realist unlike Gore. Part of realism is to fully assess and recognize the outcomes of every possibility without prejudice. So, no, I don't sound just like Erlich and Gore.

AlexDD
05-28-2009, 7:50 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XqW5rGCwrAo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XqW5rGCwrAo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Love that part of the movie...

phamkl
05-28-2009, 8:08 PM
Realism is one name that pessimists rally behind.

Just keeping it real. I will put my faith in the system by participating in whatever way I can, until it falls down. When that comes, I'll be prepared, rather than looking to Gene for my winnings.

hoffmang
05-28-2009, 8:08 PM
By any chance have you ever had the chance to read about the ancients?

The death of the republic has been greatly exaggerated again and again.

I'll give you 2:1 since you're pretty sure on your end.

I'd like you to back your opinion that something bad that will end the republic will happen in 10 years. To support my opinion that we're not Rome I point to:

Life expectancy by birth year in the US:
http://www.northeastplanning.com/adv_container/images/Web_img_73.jpg

Real GDP per US worker:
http://www.progressdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/gdp.gif

Infant Mortality:
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/CHS/VSTAT/imr/infant.gif

Real median family income:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/HouseholdIncome66-thumb.jpg

In the 1980's Japan was going to eat our lunch. In the late 1990's we'd become complacent and the EU was going to beat us. Now everyone thinks China is going to beat us. Before the recession, China's economy was the size of California plus Oregon...

Realism is a nice way to spin being fatalistic. You need to overcome nearly 240 years of not just muddling through, but growing and changing by shrugging of the great world power, established religions, slavery, fascism, racism, nuclear war, stagflation, and more. Our current housing shock will not even last 12 months of recession...

-Gene

frunkis
05-28-2009, 8:36 PM
I don't think there is enough tin foil in the world for this thread.

Fred Flintstone
05-28-2009, 8:43 PM
I'd like you to back your opinion that something bad that will end the republic will happen in 10 years.


Did I say it was my opinion that it will happen? I thought I said if I were a gambling man I'd wager that one of three things would occur. Removal of the current government from top to to bottom, or one of two sour outcomes. How does this becomes an opinion that something bad will end the republic? (By the way, just so you know, we have a President that thinks he's a dictator, and he's not the first one but merely the next one in line from a long line of them, and we have a congress that thinks they can ride right over top of our constitution, and this isn't the first congress either, they've been doing that since the Whiskey Rebellion and it's progressively been getting worse. We don't have a bonifide republic anymore. Heck, the biggest evidence of that is the taxation of land and complete removal of allodial title. It is a prima facie democracy now. 51 wolves, 49 sheeps and the tide goes up and down every few years).

All I'm saying is it's a real enough possibility. And it's real enough of a possibility that if I were a gambling man (and I'm not), I'd plunk a lot of money down on that because of the possibility of riches seems greater than the possibility of none, to me, given the fact that there are so many odds at stake. However... that particular bet would be one where I couldn't collect if there's a fall of civilization I doubt paper money would be worth anything except perhaps as a rugged and durable toilet paper. It was a euphamism, and I wasn't some angry gunshooter looking for a huckleberry either :)

Sure, I know the Millerites thought the world was coming to an end in the 1800's and they could supposedly prove it in the Bible. And then there was that neutered dude down in San Diego county that got his followers to drink a swig of vodka and commit suicide.. Heaven's Gate. I'm not saying anything like that at all. I do not claim to know the future. But the past? Yes, the past I can bank on. And a wager of the kind I was proposing sure does take the past into account.

The opinion that time marches on and the scenery only changes a very little bit is what I'm saying is not always so. Look, we have radical this, radical that. Both sides, just like you relayed, I agree. It is commonplace. We have a confluence of momentums and oppositions that hints of revolution right around the corner. We also have the Trilateralists, the CFR-ists, the Bilderbergers and more who are actively seeking for ways to globalize the federal plantation us regular folk (aka slaves in their mindset) so they can stay on top of things for another 1000 years and we have anarchists and libertarians and republicrats who are standing up and saying "not in my lifetime". Something has to give somehow because of the pressure applied. The republic we hold dear in our minds will change. Will it be destroyed? That is a possibility. But is it a probability? Maybe, maybe not, that is conjecture and nothing you or I can foresee that as a certainty. But will 10 years go on and we still have the same republic? No. I don't believe that, not at all. That was my point. Something will change long before we see this supreme court make any rulings on things which are argued and proposed about today. That part I do believe. End of the world? No belief at all.

hoffmang
05-28-2009, 8:54 PM
1. You miss that you are betting. If you have any of your wealth in anything but hard commodities you are betting that things will work within the 200 year band of "normal."

2. You brought up Bilderbergers. That tells me you're not very astute at risk assessment. Your comments about Obama mirror exactly the left's comments about Bush. You want a real conspiracy (and not the made up ones you're referring to) - you should go research ADM and Conagra. They've been killing people and keeping people poor and hungry for years...

I had thought your opinion might be serious, but it's sadly not well informed. But what should I expect form a cartoon character?

-Gene

Fred Flintstone
05-28-2009, 9:08 PM
1. You miss that you are betting. If you have any of your wealth in anything but hard commodities you are betting that things will work within the 200 year band of "normal."


As a matter of fact, I'm glad you bring this part up. As a matter of fact, I have been purposefully expunging myself of any and all cash outside of that which I need to pay what meager bills I have, and the rest of my earnings, the sweat of my labor, that has all gone into hard commodities. I have more than enough food for one year. I have gold. I have other hard commodities. I am like always cash broke. It's been that way for well over a year.


2. You brought up Bilderbergers. That tells me you're not very astute at risk assessment. Your comments about Obama mirror exactly the left's comments about Bush.


Let's stop right there and I'll comment on this. I was very much against Bush as well as his war on terror was a war on sovereign citizens. I can't think of a time since I've been alive that this country has had a President of true substance and for the people of this great nation. I was born 10 and a half months after Kennedy was shot. Every President that has held office since I've been alive have all been puppets or been complicit in the conspiracy of destroying this great nation from what it was originally, as in when our forefathers wrote the 2nd Ammendment.


You want a real conspiracy (and not the made up ones you're referring to) - you should go research ADM and Conagra. They've been killing people and keeping people poor and hungry for years...

I know about that. And there's more too. Sure, the military-industrial complex has woven a very thick web around this planet. How does me bringing up Bilderbergers diminish things? You want me to preach and show off what I know? I can do that, and maybe even put you to shame but from the tone of how you're talking here, that simply cannot happen because every rebuttal you've brought up has served to belittle me. If that's your idea of getting the message across then by all means sir, I will walk on the other side of the street from now on and you will hear nothing from me again directly.


I had thought your opinion might be serious, but it's sadly not well informed. But what should I expect form a cartoon character?

-Gene

Oh heeeeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeeee hawwwwwwwwwww hawwwwwwwwwww. You're a big man!

I did not offend you even in the slightest. But you sir, are mighty offensive. Yeah, I know you're hot damn funny too. Sure are. There's a bunch of you laughin' it up now. Well have your hee haw session. I'm outa here. I thought this was a place of discussion, not a place of trashing.



Good night...