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View Full Version : Is a 20mm rifle legal in California?


stag1500
05-28-2009, 2:17 PM
So I just came across the MAG-FED 20mm from Anzio Ironworks on the internet. Is this rifle legit for California or is the 20mm Vulcan round banned in California?

Here's the link: http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm.

professorhard
05-28-2009, 2:19 PM
If I had to guess I'd say thats a no-go

Turo
05-28-2009, 2:20 PM
I believe any rifle shooting over .50 caliber is not legal in CA. Correct me if I'm wrong.

5150Marcelo
05-28-2009, 2:22 PM
IDK, but I think the Walmart in Afghanistan has some WWB value packs in 20mm Vulcan available! Hurry! lol

cgseanp1
05-28-2009, 2:22 PM
Would that be the destructive device crap?

EBR Works
05-28-2009, 2:22 PM
Wow, "ONLY $11,900*".

My guess is that it would be classified as a destructive device in Cali.

Technical Ted
05-28-2009, 2:24 PM
Anything over .60 is considered a Destructive Device.

20mm = 0.7874 inches

12301. (a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter, shall include any of the following weapons: (1) Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that which is commonly known as tracer or incendiary ammunition, except tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns. (2) Any bomb, grenade, explosive missile, or similar device or any launching device therefor. (3) Any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 caliber which fires fixed ammunition, or any ammunition therefor, other than a shotgun (smooth or rifled bore) conforming to the definition of a "destructive device" found in subsection (b) of Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, shotgun ammunition (single projectile or shot), antique rifle, or an antique cannon. For purposes of this section, the term "antique cannon" means any cannon manufactured before January 1, 1899, which has been rendered incapable of firing or for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. The term "antique rifle" means a firearm conforming to the definition of an "antique firearm" in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

mattman
05-28-2009, 2:26 PM
I think the max in California is going to be the 14.5mm soviet round.

ke6guj
05-28-2009, 2:31 PM
I think the max in California is going to be the 14.5mm soviet round.correct, one can go up to .60" in CA without needing a CADOJ DD permit. Federally, the limit is .50", any more than that and you need an approved tax stamp for the DD, unless it has a DD-exemption. 14.5mm Russian is a DD so you'd need a tax stamp to cover you federally but would not need CADOJ permission.

14.5mm JDJ is a .50BMG necked up to 14.5mm, and has a federal DD-exemption. So, you could have a 14.5mmJDJ with no state or federal registration needed.

timdps
05-28-2009, 2:36 PM
Whoops, too slow....

Anything over .60 is considered a Destructive Device.

...in California. Anything over .50 cal is a DD for federal firearms laws, so you would need to deal with DD laws at federal and state levels.

A destructive device is a firearm or explosive device that, in the United States, is regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934. Examples of destructive devices are grenades, and firearms with a bore over one half of an inch, including some semi-automatic shotguns. While current federal laws allow destructive devices, some states have banned them from transfer to civilians. In states where banned, only law enforcement officers and military personnel are allowed to possess them.

All National Firearms Act firearms including destructive devices, must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, who then closely monitor use, transport, and storage of the items.

The definition of a "destructive device" is found in 26 U.S.C. 5845(f). The definition reads as follows:

(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas, (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces, (D) missile having an explosive charge of more than 1/4 ounce, (E) mine or (F) similar device.

(2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and

(3) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled.

The term destructive device shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned or given by the Secretary of the Army, pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of Title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.[1]

stag1500
05-28-2009, 4:06 PM
Thank you all for your info/help. I'll pass it along to a couple friends who will no doubt be disappointed. Oh well.

Bagelthief
05-28-2009, 4:50 PM
WOW! ive never seen anything like that....

brando
05-28-2009, 5:14 PM
I think the max in California is going to be the 14.5mm soviet round.

For what it's worth, the 14.5mm Soviet is a very impressive round - high mass, high velocity. If it's loaded to match quality and mated to a precision rifle, you'd have one hell of an HTI platform.

B Strong
05-28-2009, 5:21 PM
So I just came across the MAG-FED 20mm from Anzio Ironworks on the internet. Is this rifle legit for California or is the 20mm Vulcan round banned in California?

Here's the link: http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm.

Sorry Moe, no 20mm for you in California.

In a free state with a DD tax stamp you'd be good to go, but alas, we're not living in a free stae.

The other issue for the real world is shooting the 20mm isn't the most fun of experiences. I got to fire one round as a kid, and believe me, that was enough.

The .50 BMG class of cartridges is much more "user friendly"

thefurball
05-28-2009, 5:36 PM
How much every time you pull the trigger? $$$

cgseanp1
05-28-2009, 5:45 PM
http://www.anzioironworks.com/20MM-TAKE-DOWN-RIFLE.htm

Picture of ammo.. and training 20mm is 10 a round.

Springfield45
05-28-2009, 8:22 PM
Whoops, too slow....



...in California. Anything over .50 cal is a DD for federal firearms laws, so you would need to deal with DD laws at federal and state levels.

Do I still have time to register my .577 caliber Snider Enfield as a Assault Weapon/ Destructive Device? :eek:




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Nepalese_Snider.jpg











Just kidding.

NeoWeird
05-28-2009, 9:45 PM
I MAY be wrong on this, BUT I THOUGHT I read that the 20mm had been petitioned to the US Attorney General and it had been given an NFA exempt thumbs up as a sporting cartridge/rifle.

If that were the case, it would NOT be 'conforming to the definition of a "destructive device" found in subsection (b) of Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations' and would therefore NOT be a Destructive Device in California.

I could be wrong, and a quick Google search didn't turn up anything (20mm and acronyms are too broad of terms to search properly), but if the that is true it would be legal in California. Of course if this IS the case, the ATF could handle it's NFA exemption on a case by case basis, just like magazine fed 12g shotguns, and could say Rifle A is exempt where as Rifle B is not.

The 20mm SEEMS cool until you find out it's effective barrel life is only usually less than a case of ammo (anywhere from 200-500 rounds from what I've heard). So that $10 per round is REALLY more like $30 a round.

CSDGuy
05-28-2009, 9:52 PM
Why not just go wildcat and get a 20mm case to neck down to a 14.5mm... I figure barrel life might be about 20 rounds or so, why not? So what if you need a seriously interesting recoil system and the mother of all muzzle brakes...

B Strong
05-29-2009, 5:53 AM
There are certain 20mm's on the C & R list, but it's not going to help you so much in California.

brando
05-29-2009, 10:04 AM
20mm necked down to .50Cal would be the McMillan Fat Mac. Impressive performance but lots and lots of problems. Finding 20mm ball ammo would be tricky as most large caliber rounds like that are combined explosive payload and not simply lead with a copper jacket.