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View Full Version : URGENT -AB 962 Ammo bill - re-hearing Thursday 5/28


Rivers
05-27-2009, 8:28 AM
Last time, it didn't actually get a hearing in the Appropriations committee which is chaired by this bill's author, Kevin de Leon. It went into "suspense" thanks to the barrage of phone, email, etc. that the Dems offices received. Well, it comes back to the Appropriations committee in combination with the Senate's bill to ban ammo sales at the Cow Palace.

Summarizing, AB 962 will stop internet ammo sales (forcing all ammo sales to be face-to face), require registration and thumbprint at each ammo purchase, require certification of ammo sales personnel, require all ammo kept inside a secure enclosure.

The hearing is TOMORROW so call and email NOW! Focus on the Dems but tell them all how you feel.

(Copied from the previous AB 962 post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=176297)

Please contact the members of the Assembly Appropriations Committee TODAY and respectfully urge them to oppose AB962. Contact information for the committee can be found below.

Assemblymember Kevin de Leon (D-45) - Chair
(916) 319-2045
Assemblymember.deLeon@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Jim Nielsen (R-2) - Vice Chair
(916) 319-2002
Assemblymember.Nielsen@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Tom Ammiano (D-13)
(916) 319-2013
Assemblymember.Ammiano@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Charles M. Calderon (D-58)
(916) 319-2058
Assemblymember.Calderon@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Mike Davis (D-48)
(916) 319-2048
Assemblymember.Davis@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Michael D. Duvall (R-72)
(916) 319-2072
Assemblymember.Duvall@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Felipe Fuentes (D-39)
(916) 319-2039
Assemblymember.fuentes@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Isadore Hall, III (D-52)
(916) 319-2052
Assemblymember.Hall@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Diane L. Harkey (R-73)
(916) 319-2073
Assemblymember.Harkey@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Dave Jones (D-9) (no longer on committee, do not call as he has no vote tomorrow)
(916) 319-2009
Assemblymember.jones@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Jeff Miller (R-71)
(916) 319-2071
Assemblymember.Miller@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember John A. Pérez (D-46)
(916) 319-2046
Assemblymember.John.Perez@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Curren D. Price, Jr. (D-51)
(916) 319-2051
Assemblymember.Price@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Nancy Skinner (D-14)
(916) 319-2014
Assemblymember.Skinner@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Jose Solorio (D-69)
(916) 319-2069
Assemblymember.solorio@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Audra Strickland (R-37)
(916) 319-2037
Assemblymember.strickland@assembly.ca.gov

Assemblymember Tom Torlakson (D-11)
(916) 319-2011
Assemblymember.Torlakson@assembly.ca.gov

soundwave
05-27-2009, 8:46 AM
Thank you for posting this.

Let's get those calls flowing in again everyone. Let em know this is unacceptable!!!

jkchan83
05-27-2009, 9:27 AM
There was an earlier post where the committee mentioned that they did not receive very much contact from citizens opposing AB 962. It was recommended that, in addition to contacting individual assemblymembers, we should contact the committee office, too.

http://www.assembly.ca.gov/acs/newcomframeset.asp?committee=43

Phone: (916) 319-2081

I just called and let them know that I oppose AB 962.

TheBundo
05-27-2009, 10:21 AM
I just called too, and told them to pass AB357 while they're at it

Sleepy1988
05-27-2009, 10:43 AM
Doesn't this violate FOPA?

EDIT:Also, could this be attacked as a violation of the second amendment if it were to pass?

bwiese
05-27-2009, 10:45 AM
Doesn't this violate FOPA?

No, why would it? That just controls transport thru state.

EDIT:Also, could this be attacked as a violation of the second amendment if it were to pass?

Yes. Every gun law is challengeable post-Nordyke.

mblat
05-27-2009, 10:49 AM
Doesn't this violate FOPA?



Doesn't violate FOPA, but probably in conflict with interstate commerce statures.
Same as the attempts to restrict wine/cigarettes sales via internet where.....

uxo2
05-27-2009, 11:24 AM
I just called all of them and the "D's " have the worst attitude.

Especially Assemblymember Tom Torlakson phone bithc..

That "" WHATEVER ATTITUDE""

glockman19
05-27-2009, 12:43 PM
Just got done calling them all. Actually had a pleasant conversation with Torkelson's aide. She actually told me NO legislation that is NOT MANDATORY will make it to the Assembly Floor and only that Legislation that will retain current programs will be heard. I agree.

The truth is there is NO MONEY to fund such a program even through liscensing fees. An entire division in the DOJ would have to be created to license and check for compliance. It just won't happen.

Also, make sure you mention to all of them that:


"Now more than ever ('your' insert assembly members name )participation on the Appropriations Committee is extremely important to the fiscal survival of our state. I'm for saving existing programs, not creating new ones."

soundwave
05-27-2009, 1:35 PM
Great stuff. Keep on em!

Baja_Traveler
05-27-2009, 2:52 PM
Emailed all of them first go-around, even de Leon - the author of the bill. Got the standard form letter "we received your email" from all of them but one.

Here's that one:

Thank you for taking the time to contact my office regarding our mutual gun rights in California. First, let me be clear - I am an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms. I do not support AB 962 and will oppose it in Appropriations Committee.

I believe AB 962 puts more limitations on the rights of legal gun owners. This bill will do nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals or dangerous people living in our communities. Limiting the transfer or sale of ammunition to 50 rounds per month, the equivalent of one box of handgun ammunition, will have a devastating impact on legal firearms retailers. Average sales volumes regularly exceed the proposed limit, which would subject the majority of firearms business owners to a new set of bureaucratic rules and regulations regarding licensure, storage and sale procedures. This would force many small businesses that rely on ammunition sales as their primary revenue to incur additional costs in order to comply with the provisions of AB 962. As one may guess, such costs would definitely be passed along to the consumer. This burdensome and unnecessary regulation would drive a sizable number of retailers out of business altogether.

Further, AB 962 would hinder the ability of law abiding citizens to transfer ownership of ammunition between private parties such as family members by requiring individuals to be licensed by the Department of Justice if the 50-round thresholds are exceeded.

This outrageous proposal adds yet another layer of red tape where appropriate regulation already exists and infringes further upon individual freedoms of every California citizens’ Right to Bear Arms.

I truly appreciate you taking the time to make your voice heard – I stand with you on this issue. Please do not hesitate to contact me or my staff at (949) 347-7301 if I may be of further service.

Sincerely,



DIANE L. HARKEY
Assemblywoman, 73rd District

Casey
05-27-2009, 3:30 PM
I sent faxes on the first go round. I don't think the members in favor are gonna bring up that you contacted them and are against this.

I like the idea of calling the Committee directly and telling them I am opposed. I know that will count. One phone call and it's easy to say "I am opposed to AB962 the ammo restriction bill." They will take your info. It's about a 30 second effort.
Call now: (916) 319-2081

1BigPea
05-27-2009, 3:51 PM
Made all the calls again, sent emails and call the Appropriation Committee directly again.

I hope this thing dies tomorrow.

bwiese
05-27-2009, 3:52 PM
Call, write, email and fax.

Burn those phone lines up. Allocate some of your lunch break to be a pain.

AMDG
05-27-2009, 4:15 PM
Done.

I wrote:

Dear Assemblymember _________:

I hereby respectfully request that you vote no on AB 962 and list me as a citizen against AB 962.

AB 962 is bad legislation that would increase government regulation, waste tax payer dollars, unnecessarily restrict trade, and have no impact on crime.

I realize that some Assemblymembers believe that spending more tax dollars and restricting free trade will result in a safer, economically sound society, but the fact is that this bill, if passed, would create nothing but waste and have no impact on crime whatsoever. What it will do, however, is negatively impact law abiding sportsmen and small business owners, both Democrats and Republicans.

Please, if you feel compelled to spend more tax payer dollars that the State does not have, hire more police and firefighters or use it to keep the poison control hotline open. Its legislation like AB 962 that is the reason our state is in such a financial crisis.

Respectfully yours,

Bagelthief
05-27-2009, 4:52 PM
would this have any impact on reloading?

GreyMinotaur
05-27-2009, 6:24 PM
I have a feeling De Leon is trying to pass this bill before his term is up so that he can say he was tough on crime and blah blah blah. It is agitating that he keeps trying and trying and trying. He should be recalled.

dakobster81
05-27-2009, 6:41 PM
emailed all of 'em

cortayack
05-27-2009, 7:50 PM
Emailed them again.....I will call them direct tommorrow.....

soundwave
05-28-2009, 8:08 AM
962 is on the list for today. Going to listen in if I can find that link for streaming audio for the CACOA.

Swiss
05-28-2009, 8:58 AM
I'm having trouble connecting to the audio stream. If anyone here is listening in please let us know when it's being discussed and what the outcome is. Thanks!

Swiss
05-28-2009, 9:18 AM
I just called the Appropriations Committee to find out why I couldn't connect online and the staffer said it's because the meeting hasn't started yet. Appropriations will meet around 2PM today, or whenever the floor session is over.

He also explained that they usually meet on Wednesdays but, due to the big suspense file, they're having it today. I'm guessing that AB962 will come up, so keep those calls, faxes, and emails coming!

soundwave
05-28-2009, 9:36 AM
I'm listening in now.

Go here (http://www.assembly.ca.gov/committee_hearings/defaulttext.asp) and click on floor session a the top of the page to listen in.

They are going over file items right now, whatever the hell those are.

cyrus
05-28-2009, 10:30 AM
I clicked on the room but It was busy...
Any updates?

1BigPea
05-28-2009, 11:06 AM
Listening right now...nothing so far on 962...

soundwave
05-28-2009, 11:10 AM
Listening right now...nothing so far on 962...

ditto

Swiss
05-28-2009, 11:18 AM
Still can't connect, error message reads:

"Windows Media Player cannot connect to the server. The server name might not be correct, the server might not be available, or your proxy settings might not be correct."

1BigPea
05-28-2009, 11:21 AM
Still can't connect, error message reads:

"Windows Media Player cannot connect to the server. The server name might not be correct, the server might not be available, or your proxy settings might not be correct."

Hmm...soon as I clicked on the link it popped open Windows Media and started playing.

I'm not too technical with stuff like that...sorry can't be more help.

It is playing though...

st.clouds
05-28-2009, 12:18 PM
Still can't connect, error message reads:

"Windows Media Player cannot connect to the server. The server name might not be correct, the server might not be available, or your proxy settings might not be correct."

Sounds like you're behind a firewall. A proxy is just another computer that links you and the internet. A firewall proxy acts like a gateway filter that determines what stuff may pass in or out. This firewall is probably blocking the content.

Suggest you try again from another location.

Anyways I'm at the office, any news on this?

1BigPea
05-28-2009, 12:22 PM
Nothing yet...

Swiss
05-28-2009, 1:00 PM
I finally connected - it turns out my IT guy installed the latest and greatest Internet Explorer, which reset the Security settings to High. I dialed it back to Medium and it connected.

Right now I hear only static. I again called the Appropriations Committee main phone and was told that the hearing had not yet started. They're wrapping up the main Assembly meeting right now so it should start soon.

http://www.assembly.ca.gov/committee_hearings/defaulttext.asp

soundwave
05-28-2009, 1:01 PM
I finally connected - it turns out my IT guy installed the latest and greatest Internet Explorer, which reset the Security settings to High. I dialed it back to Medium and it connected.

Right now I hear only static. I again called the Appropriations Committee main phone and was told that the hearing had not yet started. They're wrapping up the main Assembly meeting right now so it should start soon.

http://www.assembly.ca.gov/committee_hearings/defaulttext.asp

Yep, they are blabbering about all sorts of stuff in the wrap up. The AC should start soon.

Paul E
05-28-2009, 1:10 PM
Yep, they are blabbering about all sorts of stuff in the wrap up. The AC should start soon.

Yeah, gotta love politicians. Haha.

Quemtimebo
05-28-2009, 1:11 PM
Static :popcorn:

Sig226
05-28-2009, 1:23 PM
Static :popcorn:

Room 4202?

Paul E
05-28-2009, 1:34 PM
Yeah, I'm not hearing anything either.

Paul E
05-28-2009, 1:37 PM
here we go, just started.

1BigPea
05-28-2009, 1:42 PM
Still can't connect, error message reads:

"Windows Media Player cannot connect to the server. The server name might not be correct, the server might not be available, or your proxy settings might not be correct."

Now i'm getting this error. WTH!?

curtisfong
05-28-2009, 1:43 PM
They aren't even on the Suspense bills yet. I dont see how they are goign to get to it this session.

p7m8jg
05-28-2009, 1:47 PM
THey'll slide it in if they think no one is listening.......................

RickD6023
05-28-2009, 2:03 PM
Let's see - the author of 962 is DeLeon. The Chairman of the AC is DeLeon. What do you think the odds are for the bill to be heard and rubber stamped/approved?

demnogis
05-28-2009, 2:05 PM
Link to listen in??

EBR Works
05-28-2009, 2:09 PM
Link to listen in??

http://192.234.214.75/asm-4202

Swiss
05-28-2009, 2:35 PM
Now discussing last measure before they move on to the Suspense file

soundwave
05-28-2009, 2:40 PM
Just got back on the audio after my lunch break
What I miss?

curtisfong
05-28-2009, 2:46 PM
just starting suspense file now... i suspect anything with significant fiscal impact is gonna get scuttled. perfect timing for this imo, CA controller was just on the radio TODAY saying they will be out of money in July.

update, he just said they want to pass "half" of them :(

zinfull
05-28-2009, 2:55 PM
My money says it will pass because it will "bring in money"

Jerry

pneutin
05-28-2009, 2:57 PM
I'm listening now and they seem to be going through the bills in Suspense a lot faster. Did they already vote on these beforehand?

remington
05-28-2009, 2:59 PM
I think the result will be less revenue, more costs to administer it as well. Could be wrong of course.

1BigPea
05-28-2009, 3:00 PM
I'm listening now and they seem to be going through the bills in Suspense a lot faster. Did they already vote on these beforehand?

They must have...

glockman19
05-28-2009, 3:03 PM
They just passed over it.

SchooBaka
05-28-2009, 3:03 PM
Did they skip it? :confused:

freonr22
05-28-2009, 3:03 PM
what does it mean when its not mentioned??

Swiss
05-28-2009, 3:04 PM
Did he just skip AB962???? Maybe De Leon's saving his own for last.

curtisfong
05-28-2009, 3:04 PM
hmm they skipped it. where did it go?

zinfull
05-28-2009, 3:05 PM
Something smells fishy.

Jerry

donstarr
05-28-2009, 3:08 PM
Just started "Criminal Justice"... AB#s started low again

SchooBaka
05-28-2009, 3:08 PM
nope, I think it's coming up.

zinfull
05-28-2009, 3:08 PM
They are doing different type of bills as a group
jerry

pneutin
05-28-2009, 3:08 PM
They're starting on "Criminal Justice" bills and the numbering has seemed to start over again.

1BigPea
05-28-2009, 3:10 PM
yeah, it will be in this group...

soundwave
05-28-2009, 3:13 PM
"Do pass with technical amendments" what does that mean?

EBR Works
05-28-2009, 3:14 PM
Here it comes......

glockman19
05-28-2009, 3:14 PM
AB 962

Recomendation:

Do Pass with Technical amendments

AB 662 gun free zones , School zones Do Pass with techincal amendments.
AB

1BigPea
05-28-2009, 3:14 PM
Damn, pass with Technical Amendments!???

EBR Works
05-28-2009, 3:15 PM
Passed:mad:

glockman19
05-28-2009, 3:15 PM
Wonder what the "Technical Amendments" were?

zinfull
05-28-2009, 3:15 PM
passed with admendments

fresnohunter
05-28-2009, 3:15 PM
Hmmmm Whats the technical amendment?

SchooBaka
05-28-2009, 3:16 PM
What technical amendments?

oepirate
05-28-2009, 3:16 PM
So where does it go from here? Do we start sending letters to the entire assembly?

curtisfong
05-28-2009, 3:16 PM
ugh.

SchooBaka
05-28-2009, 3:16 PM
Well, the govinator still has to sign it right?

CalNRA
05-28-2009, 3:17 PM
not surprised seeing how many democrats there are on the committee.

remington
05-28-2009, 3:17 PM
I think is still has to goto the legislative branch to pass, then governor?

AMDG
05-28-2009, 3:22 PM
What complete f**ktard @sshats! No wonder this state and country is so completely f**cked up.

Swiss
05-28-2009, 3:22 PM
WTF? No discussion, no verbal opposition from Republicans? Someone please explain this process.

sheshotme
05-28-2009, 3:24 PM
arrrgggg!:taz:

donstarr
05-28-2009, 3:24 PM
Listening to this garbage is going to give me an ulcer.

Why are they even thinking about, proposing, discussing, voting on, streaming, and otherwise wasting time and money with all of these things, when their only order of business should be eliminating the multi-billion-dollar deficit?

remington
05-28-2009, 3:26 PM
Because no one is watching but us.....

Bagelthief
05-28-2009, 3:31 PM
can someone who is politically savvy let all us regular people know what the next step is?

does this mean it is now law or does it need to be passed by more people?

nickvig
05-28-2009, 3:33 PM
I'm so sick of the lawmakers in this state. . .

demnogis
05-28-2009, 3:35 PM
:censored:

Both the GFSZ expansion and Ammo restriction bills passed?!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Please, we need to get 626.9/626.95 taken out asap! This is a slap in the face to those who carry and every other gun owner who buys ammo!!!

pneutin
05-28-2009, 3:36 PM
I believe it now goes to the governor who must sign or veto the bill by Oct 11, 2009. If there's anyone that you should bombard with emails and phone calls now, it is Arnold.

Rivers
05-28-2009, 3:39 PM
NO, it is not law yet. It only passed a committee. It still must pass the complete Assembly, then the Senate, then be signed by the Gov. If it is not signed within 30 days of the end of the legislative session, it fails.

If the CA Senate passes a "not identical" bill, both the Assembly and Senate must agree on a version, then pass that version to submit to the Governor for signature.

The next step is to find out when it will come to the Assembly floor, then bombard the WHOLE Assembly with our sentiments. Maybe mention that their approval rating is 14% (lower than imaginable anywhere other than CA) so their path is not appreciated by the populace.

Swiss
05-28-2009, 3:39 PM
I called the Appropriations Committee main line and spoke with a staffer. If the suspense file bill is recommended for passage on a "B roll call", that means that all Democrats previously voted "Aye" and all Republicans voted "No". An "A roll call" means everyone voted in favor. A "B roll call minus" would've meant that not all Democrats voted for it, but I believe AB962 was a "B roll call".

The next stop is the general Assembly, where the bill must be debated and moved to the Senate before the end of the session, which is around the end of June (the staffer wasn't sure). So it sounds like that's our next battleground with perhaps under more favorable conditions than the Public Safety and Appropriations committees.

Technical amendments generally means minor modifications.

That's all I know.

Texas Boy
05-28-2009, 3:41 PM
So when does it come up for assembly vote? Who do we call? Obviously we would like to focus on the swing votes if possible, but if it takes calling the entire assembly, then so be it.

demnogis
05-28-2009, 3:44 PM
It's time to bombard our assembly reps. Call, fax, write, get your friends, family and everyone else to voice their opinion NOW. Contact is ESSENTIAL. The louder our voice is the greater the result.

I can see the voices to support these bills: Sheriff's Unions, Police Officers' Unions, Brady Campaign, etc -- the same people who spoke out AGAINST AB 357.

We need to make sure we outnumber them.

FCinCA
05-28-2009, 3:47 PM
Well for those who are looking see what exactly this bill would do, here you go....

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090226_introduced.pdf

:mad::mad::mad:

Rivers
05-28-2009, 3:49 PM
BTW, where is the NRA on this?

gose
05-28-2009, 3:50 PM
(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does
not include blanks used in prop weapons.

So it looks like they're banning online sales of magazines, stripper clips, speed loaders, bullets, as well as ammunition....

Sweet...

C&R + COE holders are exempt though, but that wont be of much use to most people...

oepirate
05-28-2009, 3:57 PM
They are not banning it yet, they have passed it in appropriations committee.
Go to this link and find your representative (http://www.assembly.ca.gov/defaulttext.asp) for your district. Compose a written letter (its old school) which will then get filed and kept for review. Copy this letter to both their Sacramento office and their local office. Email them your opinion also. Take the time to call their local office and ask for an appointment to discuss it. Next, get every neighbor, every family member, and that guy at Starbucks to do the same. This means taking some valuable time to go out and talk to people and take time out of our way busy days but if we sit and complain here, but do nothing, it will result in it potentially passing.

Bagelthief
05-28-2009, 4:00 PM
what are C&R + COE holders?

low94noma
05-28-2009, 4:01 PM
Now is the time for all of us to unite and work something out in our regions. Statewide demonstrations, handing out fliers to describe the bill, how the bill will infringe on our constitutional rights, and how it will not work on targeting criminals. This is completely ridiculous. At the same time, maybe we should fight other gun rights issues at the same time. I have to admit, I was not really interested in getting involved, but this really pis*** me off. I wonder how it is going to play out in the next round. If it goes any further than this, it is on. We just need to start doing something about it now. I have no ideas, but there are thousands of us on this forum and we can possibly come together to have some good recommendations up in the air.

KaTooM
05-28-2009, 4:02 PM
Its a sad day indeed...:(

Bagelthief
05-28-2009, 4:07 PM
I think this needs forum wide attention. Remember the banner about the .308 AR rifle give-away? We need to get a mod to put up a similar banner directing people to this thread.

Does someone have a list of the mods/admins? i will pm them if i have a list of who to send the message to.

EBR Works
05-28-2009, 4:10 PM
what are C&R + COE holders?

C&R is an FFL03 which allows you to act as a collector of Curio and Relic firearms. Good for 3 years.

COE is Certificate of Elegibility which is an extensive background check and fingerprinting. Must be renewed yearly.

I have both.

Some Guy
05-28-2009, 4:12 PM
When you write your letters be careful about bringing up internet sales, they dont bring in any money for the state.

jkchan83
05-28-2009, 4:14 PM
BTW, where is the NRA on this?

NRA is already working on this. This specific bill came up during the legislative briefing at the S. Orange County NRA MC meeting 2-3 months ago.

donstarr
05-28-2009, 4:14 PM
When you write your letters be careful about bringing up internet sales, they dont bring in any money for the state.

Unless you're honest on your CA tax return.

Too Slow
05-28-2009, 4:25 PM
One thing you can also do is to support the next round of protests against high taxes and government intrustion. In Ventura county we are protesting on the 4th of July in front of the government center. The platform for the tea party people is not one of just lowering taxes, but one of smaller government and support for constitutional rights including 2a. 2a came up at our last organizing meeting and I'd highly recommend taking an hour out of a day off you already have to more broadly indicate unhappiness about the course that our state and federal government are taking. I'll post more info as we get closer.

Some Guy
05-28-2009, 4:41 PM
One thing you can also do is to support the next round of protests against high taxes and government intrustion. In Ventura county we are protesting on the 4th of July in front of the government center. The platform for the tea party people is not one of just lowering taxes, but one of smaller government and support for constitutional rights including 2a. 2a came up at our last organizing meeting and I'd highly recommend taking an hour out of a day off you already have to more broadly indicate unhappiness about the course that our state and federal government are taking. I'll post more info as we get closer.

PM me details when the time comes, and I'll be there.

Swiss
05-28-2009, 5:06 PM
Who here lives anywhere near Berkeley? There's a pedestrian bridge that crosses I-80 where there's often political banners of one kind or another. A person with the time and inclination could do the same, displaying whatever message to ten of thousands of morning or evening commuters.

The question is, what slogan will grab attention and convey the message? Bonus points if you denounce Assemblywoman Skinner, who represents that area and is on both the Public Safety and Appropriations committees that passed this bill forward.

rumblebee
05-28-2009, 7:16 PM
Ditto that... this looks like/is a very very bad thing coming down....what's next???????????:eek:

I'm so sick of the lawmakers in this state. . .

Aegis
05-28-2009, 8:07 PM
Another brilliant move by the fools in the legislature. Not only have they bankrupted the state, they passed another law to prevent law abiding people from protecting themselves. The members of the legislature who voted for this should be ashamed of themselves for being miserable failures.

st.clouds
05-28-2009, 9:19 PM
Another brilliant move by the fools in the legislature. Not only have they bankrupted the state, they passed another law to prevent law abiding people from protecting themselves. The members of the legislature who voted for this should be ashamed of themselves for being miserable failures.

If the legislature are miserable failures, what does that make the millions of people who voted them into office repeatedly?

Sorry couldn't help it.

Anyways, yeah this is a let down, but then what did we expect?

CnCFunFactory
05-28-2009, 11:49 PM
Well kids, I am sadly, not surprised.:(

Kid Stanislaus
05-29-2009, 6:51 AM
Another brilliant move by the fools in the legislature. Not only have they bankrupted the state, they passed another law to prevent law abiding people from protecting themselves. The members of the legislature who voted for this should be ashamed of themselves for being miserable failures.

They don't know the meaning of shame!

BTF/PTM
05-29-2009, 6:52 AM
Keep this subject hot, folks, thanks to the original poster for keeping up on it. I'm going to keep writing to the Assembly.

p7m8jg
05-29-2009, 6:53 AM
If the legislature are miserable failures, what does that make the millions of people who voted them into office repeatedly?
Sorry couldn't help it.

Anyways, yeah this is a let down, but then what did we expect?

THAT is a truth the populace won't admit!!!!

Everybody complains about the idiots in the legislature. But when it comes time to vote, nobody wants to kick out their idiot.....

dfletcher
05-29-2009, 7:10 AM
If the legislature are miserable failures, what does that make the millions of people who voted them into office repeatedly?


There's a scene in an older movie called "Name of the Rose" - Sean Connery was in it, took place in a 14th century monastery. There's a scene where the Bishops open a sluice gate, all the garbage and waste and animal guts from their many meals pour down on the peasants. The peasant await, eager and grateful for the bounty.

That's how politicians stay in power - by giving back just enough garbage of the right kind to enough people happy to have it, instead of climbing the walls and hauling them out. I don't think much has changed in 500 years.

redline
05-29-2009, 8:25 AM
Supposing this makes it past the gov's signature, is this also an instance in which if a lawsuit is brought questioning its legality/constitutionality, it will be on "hold" until its legality is determined (like what happened with the attempted SF gun ban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition_H))?

1BigPea
05-29-2009, 10:56 AM
Just got this alert from the NRA...

Vote on Two Anti-Gun Bills Could Come Next Week!
Please Contact Your State Legislators Today!
Yesterday, the Assembly Committee on Appropriations passed Assembly Bill 962. Senate Bill 585 was also passed by the Senate Appropriations Committee.


Sponsored by Assembly Member Kevin De Leon (D-45), AB962 would make it a crime to privately transfer more than 50 rounds of ammunition per month, even between family and friends, unless you are registered as a “handgun ammunition vendor” in the Department of Justice’s database. Ammunition retailers would have to be licensed and store ammunition in such a manner that it would be inaccessible to purchasers. The bill would also require purchasers submit to fingerprinting, which would be submitted to the Department of Justice. Lastly, mail order ammunition sales would be prohibited. AB962 now heads to the Assembly floor for consideration.

SB585, introduced by State Senator Mark Leno (D-3), would prohibit the sale of firearms and ammunition on the property or inside the buildings that comprise the Cow Palace. In short, SB585 is a stepping-stone to banning gun shows on all publicly-owned property in California. SB585 will now be considered on the floor of the Senate.

Both bills could be voted on as early as next week so it is imperative that you make your voices heard loudly. Please contact your State Assemblymember TODAY and respectfully urge them to oppose AB962. Also, please call your State Senator and urge them to oppose SB585. Contact information for your state legislators can be found here. http://www.capwiz.com/nra/state/main/?state=CA&view=myofficials

SickofSoCal
05-29-2009, 11:01 AM
Sorry, I'm coming in on the last few pages. Is this Federal or CA?

mecam
05-29-2009, 11:03 AM
Sorry, I'm coming in on the last few pages. Is this Federal or CA?

CA for now.

P.G.C.
05-29-2009, 11:21 AM
I already emailed my senator and assemblywoman. I doubt they are gonna' be much help in this.

I think it's kind of funny that they suspended these bills until right after the ruling on prop 8 came out and got the people good and distracted.

Swiss
05-29-2009, 11:58 AM
I already emailed my senator and assemblywoman. I doubt they are gonna' be much help in this.

I think it's kind of funny that they suspended these bills until right after the ruling on prop 8 came out and got the people good and distracted.

I think it's extremely underhanded that they suspended this bill and thus avoided any public comment or debate at the hearing. That SOB De Leon knew exactly what he was doing - there was never any question about getting the Democratic majority to vote in favor it, in spite of our efforts.

Paul E
05-29-2009, 12:21 PM
I called about 962, and they noted it down and they knew what the bill was, but they did not know about SB585 so I informed him about it and they noted that as well although I called the senator about 585 as well.

This was Assemblyman Cameron Smyths office and Senator Tony Stricklands office.

leitung
05-29-2009, 3:57 PM
I have called my rep and sent e-mails. I am pretty sure he is onboard, but it never hurts to let em know your feelings. Send it out!!!

SickofSoCal
05-29-2009, 5:47 PM
Time to get out. CA is the one of the least free states:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/america039s_freest_states

Aegis
05-29-2009, 8:09 PM
If this thing does become law, who is going to enforce it, the ammo police? The state is nearly bankrupt.

De Leon should be spending his time trying to solve the budget crisis instead of passing unconstitutional laws that don't stop crime. Even if it does pass, it will probably be challenged and defeated.

GreyMinotaur
05-29-2009, 8:51 PM
If this thing does become law, who is going to enforce it, the ammo police? The state is nearly bankrupt.

De Leon should be spending his time trying to solve the budget crisis instead of passing unconstitutional laws that don't stop crime. Even if it does pass, it will probably be challenged and defeated.

I hope you're right. I heard the NRA already has a response to this. Does anyone know what it is?

st.clouds
05-29-2009, 8:57 PM
If this thing does become law, who is going to enforce it, the ammo police? The state is nearly bankrupt.

De Leon should be spending his time trying to solve the budget crisis instead of passing unconstitutional laws that don't stop crime. Even if it does pass, it will probably be challenged and defeated.

It's fine, the longer they continue this circus, the less they'll be paid. With a little help from inflation, prop 1F and the feds print press, we will be paying them next to nothing. So let them spend the money, it's gonna hit them just as bad in the wallet.

Hopefully that and a few litigation will chase away the legislative clowns and bring in candidates with more sense.

charliedontsurf334
05-29-2009, 9:02 PM
If only the feds would let them go bankrupt...

goober
05-30-2009, 8:39 AM
just so you know how the vote played out, not that it is much of a surprise:

UNOFFICIAL BALLOT
MEASURE: AB 962
AUTHOR: De Leon
TOPIC: Ammunition.
DATE: 05/28/2009
LOCATION: ASM. APPR.
MOTION: Do pass as amended.
(AYES 12. NOES 5.) (PASS)


AYES
****

De Leon Ammiano Charles Calderon Davis
Fuentes Hall John A. Perez Price
Skinner Solorio Torlakson Krekorian


NOES
****

Nielsen Duvall Harkey Miller
Audra Strickland


ABSENT, ABSTAINING, OR NOT VOTING
*********************************

Librarian
05-30-2009, 1:00 PM
Thanks for the vote info, goober_0.

With DeLeon as chair of Appropriations there really was little chance that committee would defeat his bill.

Almost certainly will make it to the Senate. That's where it stopped last session, so time to take a breath and wait for it to be assigned to committee - probably Senate Public Safety - before pressing the issue.

Perhaps a polite note to your individual Senator - on paper, not email - would be a good place to start. See
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/yourleg.html

SickofSoCal
05-30-2009, 1:08 PM
Vote them all out in November. Recall Arnold.

etaon
05-30-2009, 3:19 PM
The NRA set up an easy online form to contact your Assembly / Senate reps.

http://www.capwiz.com/nra/state/main/?state=CA&view=myofficials

Steveo8
05-30-2009, 3:53 PM
I just got this from a motorcycle rights group.

http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertID=12937506

This directs you to a web based email system that all that needs to be done is input your info and click send. The message is already written up, the elected officials info is filled in based on your info and way it goes. Why couldn't calguns do the same thing?

Librarian
05-30-2009, 4:02 PM
I just got this from a motorcycle rights group.

http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertID=12937506

This directs you to a web based email system that all that needs to be done is input your info and click send. The message is already written up, the elected officials info is filled in based on your info and way it goes. Why couldn't calguns do the same thing?

Because it gives the legislators another reason to discount email communications.

Take the time to write your own. Fax a polite message. If you get enough lead time, write an actual letter; if your handwriting is good (mine's horrible), send a hand written letter.

Threads here give ample information one can include; the problem is, the real reason for most legislators to vote yea/nay lies in whether the vote contributes to his/her re-election, not the technical terms of the bill. That's why volume from constituents matters.

Steveo8
05-30-2009, 4:19 PM
Because it gives the legislators another reason to discount email communications.

Take the time to write your own. Fax a polite message. If you get enough lead time, write an actual letter; if your handwriting is good (mine's horrible), send a hand written letter.

Threads here give ample information one can include; the problem is, the real reason for most legislators to vote yea/nay lies in whether the vote contributes to his/her re-election, not the technical terms of the bill. That's why volume from constituents matters.

Librarian, did you go to the link to see how it was set up? The body of the email has most of the items that you recommended plus a place to input one's own thoughts. Also it eliminates having to look up who your representative is

drgonzo
05-30-2009, 4:35 PM
Does anyone know what kinda vote margin this needs in the assembly to pass? Is it 2/3rds or a simple majority vote?

Librarian
05-30-2009, 4:35 PM
Librarian, did you go to the link to see how it was set up? The body of the email has most of the items that you recommended plus a place to input one's own thoughts. Also it eliminates having to look up who your representative is

I think the folks who tally emails will recognize that they are seeing the same four 'required text' paragraphs at the beginning over and over.

It's not a bad thing, but in the order of importance of constituent communications we get, from most influential to least:

a campaign contribution at a fundraising event, with in-person discussion
a campaign contribution with a note
a campaign contribution, and then at a later date a letter
a campaign contribution, and then at a later date a phone call
a personal conversation with the legislator
a personal conversation with the right staff member
a hand written letter, specific to an issue
a typewritten letter
a phone call
an email
a generated mass-mailing postcard (like NRA sometimes supplies)
a generated 'form email'
Generally speaking, if you are not in 1-4, all the staff does is tally for/against and maybe honestly reports the numbers to a legislator who maybe cares.

goober
05-30-2009, 4:39 PM
I think the folks who tally emails will recognize that they are seeing the same four 'required text' paragraphs at the beginning over and over.

It's not a bad thing, but in the order of importance of constituent communications we get, from most influential to least:

a campaign contribution at a fundraising event, with in-person discussion
a campaign contribution with a note
a campaign contribution, and then at a later date a letter
a campaign contribution, and then at a later date a phone call
a personal conversation with the legislator
a personal conversation with the right staff member
a hand written letter, specific to an issue
a typewritten letter
a phone call
an email
a generated mass-mailing postcard (like NRA sometimes supplies)
a generated 'form email'
Generally speaking, if you are not in 1-4, all the staff does is tally for/against and maybe honestly reports the numbers to a legislator who maybe cares.

This is absolutely correct. Everything counts. But some things more than others. Lets all do our best to take the most effective action we can. If that is sending a form-email, then so be it. But do as much as you can.

GreyMinotaur
05-30-2009, 11:50 PM
Is there a web tool from the NRA or similar that prints out a form letter, individually addressing each recipient, in addition to addressing the envelopes? That would be a good tool to have on top of the automatic email dissemination.

rumblebee
05-31-2009, 9:40 AM
doing my part! another opposing email sent to the Governator! :thumbsup:

Funny that a man who was accused of rape and being a major womanizer as few yrs back, was elected to office and now has political power... only in CA :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Librarian
05-31-2009, 8:27 PM
doing my part! another opposing email sent to the Governator! :thumbsup:

Funny that a man who was accused of rape and being a major womanizer as few yrs back, was elected to office and now has political power... only in CA :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Far too early to send things to the governor - in the last couple of decades, governors have consistently stated they pay little attention to anything that is not on their desks, unless they sponsored the bills. So Arnold is not going to waste any time on gun bills - or any other bills - until they are sent to him for his signature.

rumblebee
06-01-2009, 9:31 AM
Not making your voice heard until it's on the slate for sig???!!! A little too late IMO. Don't care if they delete, don't read or roll up my email and smoke it. Making my voice heard, anyway I can. :thumbsup:

BTW...the form I filled out was on the site the NRA set up for this. I puched in my zip and it provided me with my Rep. Seems the NRA feels appropriate to send to our Gov?

Far too early to send things to the governor - in the last couple of decades, governors have consistently stated they pay little attention to anything that is not on their desks, unless they sponsored the bills. So Arnold is not going to waste any time on gun bills - or any other bills - until they are sent to him for his signature.

Librarian
06-01-2009, 2:08 PM
Not making your voice heard until it's on the slate for sig???!!! A little too late IMO. Don't care if they delete, don't read or roll up my email and smoke it. Making my voice heard, anyway I can. :thumbsup:

BTW...the form I filled out was on the site the NRA set up for this. I puched in my zip and it provided me with my Rep. Seems the NRA feels appropriate to send to our Gov?

Your Assembly Representative is not the Governor. Frankly, I can't figure out who it is Arnold thinks he represents or who he may actually represent.

No, waiting until it is up for signature is NOT too late for the Governor, but it's not the place to start; that's the 'last ditch'. The NRA Member's Councils link 1-click sends email to State Senators and Assemblypersons.

If you happen to buy a table at one of Arnold's fundraisers, I'm sure a little chat on pending legislation would not be wasted effort. If you don't have $10K disposable to buy that kind of access, focus efforts on the legislators for now.

ETA: Can't really withdraw the idea that money buys influence, in ways both subtle and obvious. But even well funded campaigns for things have been derailed by public opposition. Every letter or call or email gets counted by someone, and there are 'rules of thumb' about how many other folks who do not write are likely to have similar opinion for each received communication; active people represent.

motorhead
06-01-2009, 9:38 PM
any word on status?

Librarian
06-01-2009, 10:09 PM
any word on status?

June 1—Read second time and amended. Ordered returned to second reading file.
(That's in the Daily File - link (ftp://leginfo.public.ca.gov/pub/dailyfile/asm/assembly_Regular_Session.pdf))

Can't see the amendment yet. Didn't just get quickly approved to 3rd reading, so someone seems to be paying attention.

Swiss
06-02-2009, 9:47 AM
The amended version is now posted here (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090601_amended_asm_v98.html).

I haven't read it yet but I noticed in the most recent "analysis" that the estimated cost keeps dropping from ridiculously low to impossibly low. And there's no mention of what it will cost local PD to monitor ammo sales.

Oh, this is a rich amendment:

"SECTION 1. This act shall be known, and may be
cited, as the PROTECTION Act of 2009: Providing Regulation and
Oversight to End Community Terrorism in Our Neighborhoods."


Why wait for the Senate? Shouldn't we keep the pressure on and contact the entire Assembly?



Thanks for the vote info, goober_0.

With DeLeon as chair of Appropriations there really was little chance that committee would defeat his bill.

Almost certainly will make it to the Senate. That's where it stopped last session, so time to take a breath and wait for it to be assigned to committee - probably Senate Public Safety - before pressing the issue.

Perhaps a polite note to your individual Senator - on paper, not email - would be a good place to start. See
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/yourleg.html

Librarian
06-02-2009, 11:29 AM
FISCAL EFFECT : According to the Assembly Appropriations
Committee, DOJ projects start-up costs of about $700,000, with
ongoing costs of $60,000 for seven positions. DOJ indicates
these costs would eventually be covered by the $50 fee and
employer payments to DOJ for the cost of the COEs.


Oh, there's optimism for you.

Looks to me more like:

The program will require a minimum of four FTE computer personnel: one Database Administrator (DBA), one Database Applications Programmer, one Systems Administrator, one Hardware Specialist; each of these people will be paid approximately $80,000 (eighty thousand dollars) in annual salary plus incur overhead of approximately half that, $40,000 (forty thousand dollars) annually in benefits, office space and equipment, for an ongoing bill of nearly half a million dollars.

New hardware must be purchased, especially disk space for the database. New database licenses must be added to the State’s collection of licenses, plus annual software maintenance.

California probably has about 5,000 FFL licensees (about 10% of the total in the United States) who sell ammunition, plus stores which sell ammunition but not guns. Every one of these would need software to access the ammunition record system. Every one of these would need at least an annual inspection to verify the records are correctly completed and procedures followed. If we allow each agent a generous four locations inspected per day, the State will require five full time agents, at minimum Staff Service Analyst rank, at about $36,000 annually plus overhead – another $270,000 per year.

It can't hurt to contact each of our Assemblypersons, but two things suggest Senate over Assembly: first, De Leon as committee chair has a lot of pull in the Assembly. Second, it looks like they'll push this through along with the rest of the bills that have to get out of their house of origin (Jun. 5 - Last day to pass bills out of house of origin (J.R. 61(a)(8)). We might be out of time for the Assembly.

Or, we might get a member to offer another amendment that gets accepted, and that might delay it past the date.

But the last time this bill came through, it was stopped in the Senate.

Swiss
06-02-2009, 12:58 PM
One amendment that these twits should consider is requiring a warrant before any PD is permitted to look at the records. Or does this law give them 24/7 access? The PD monitoring part is very unclear to me.

And there's always the fact that banning internet and mail order sales will prevent anyone who requires uncommon ammo from exercising their RKBA. I'm thinking of surplus ammo, ammo of a special caliber, or ammo having certain ballistic characteristics.

rumblebee
06-03-2009, 2:15 PM
Promising reply back!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thank you for contacting me regarding Assembly Bill 962, which would limit the sale of handgun ammunition. I appreciate having the opportunity to respond to this issue.



Assembly Bill 962 would not be cost effective in terms of crime control and would create a hardship for retailers, especially smaller ones, and customers. Criminals have many ways of obtaining ammunition. This bill would not serve as any kind of crime deterrent, but would create another large and bureaucratic registration program that would be very costly and inefficient for law abiding citizens.


Assembly Bill 962 is just another bill that attacks lawful gun owners instead of stopping the criminals that commit gun violence. It is for this and other reasons that I oppose Assembly Bill 962.

Thank you again for giving me the opportunity to respond to your concerns.


Sincerely,

JEFF DENHAM

Senator, 12th District

drgonzo
06-03-2009, 6:08 PM
since there are two threads for this forgive for posting this again. Ab 962 passed the assembly today and is on it's way to the senate.