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View Full Version : Single Action Vs. Double Action


Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 10:01 AM
Other than the obvious whats the real pros and cons between the two,
would you use a Single action as a HD gun? Etc. etc.

aplinker
05-26-2009, 10:04 AM
Single action is fine for hunting and range guns, but once the double action revolver was invented, no one carried a single action gun for defensive purposes. I certainly wouldn't choose one.

Miltiades
05-26-2009, 10:45 AM
Are you speaking of revolvers or semiautos in your question? Single action semiautos include 1911s, Browning Hi Powers and a few others which are kept ready to fire in cocked condition with the safety applied. They are very fast to bring into use and fire repeated shots with.

If you're talking about revolvers, the single action guns require thumb cocking for each shot, and will be slightly slower than double action revolvers for that reason. Somebody well practiced with a single action revolver can be a fast and accurate shooter, however. I personally prefer double action revolvers for defensive us, but own a couple of single actions for the range.

r08ert209cali
05-26-2009, 10:51 AM
Are you speaking of revolvers or semiautos in your question? Single action semiautos include 1911s, Browning Hi Powers and a few others which are kept ready to fire in cocked condition with the safety applied. They are very fast to bring into use and fire repeated shots with.

If you're talking about revolvers, the single action guns require thumb cocking for each shot, and will be slightly slower than double action revolvers for that reason. Somebody well practiced with a single action revolver can be a fast and accurate shooter, however. I personally prefer double action revolvers for defensive us, but own a couple of single actions for the range.

+1 Cocked and locked

Black Majik
05-26-2009, 10:52 AM
Also to add, if regarding semi-auto pistols; double action on a pistol allows for double strike capability, whereas on a single action pistol would require tap-rack-bang/access.

hkusp9c
05-26-2009, 10:58 AM
get a DA/SA gun if you can't choose :)

cineski
05-26-2009, 11:12 AM
IMO, after improving my thoughts on this through experience, the best home defense platform is DA, no safety, with a constant pull. SAO is a very nice trigger for hunting and target shooting, as it allows for more microscopic accuracy. That's not saying DA is not an accurate platform, but it is less accurate than SA due to the greater trigger movement. The problem with SA is the external safety. In a time of high stress, little to medium practice with SAO triggers could result in your early demise. With my 1911, I constantly forget to flip the safety off when I'm at the range. I see lots of videos of people at the range with a 1911 that forget to flip the safety. That's all fine for range ues, but a SAO platform should be something you either leave to range use or you DEDICATE yourself to (which means you flip the safety off of every gun you draw). This is the reason I like the XD series of guns with their grip safety and short, crisp triggers. The grip safety may be a semi-placebo, but I like having it there. Even my HK45, which is in DA/SA mode is less favorable as a home defense gun due to the change in trigger (I'm currently trying to figure out converting it to LEM).

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 11:16 AM
To clarify, I was speaking about revolvers, I own some DA/SA Semi autos, and Some SA, and a Glock, so no coked and locked lol but I dont really have any experience with SA revolvers.

cineski
05-26-2009, 11:20 AM
Sorry about that ;-). I guess my stance stays the same for revolvers. Why bring any additional action of a home defense gun like having to cock it?

cineski
05-26-2009, 11:21 AM
Sorry about that ;-). I guess my stance stays the same for revolvers. Why bring any additional action of a home defense gun like having to cock it?

1JimMarch
05-26-2009, 11:29 AM
no one carried a single action gun for defensive purposes

Ahem.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3320547627_99cbbbb676_b.jpg

:cool2:

Yeah, daily CCW in AZ. Fanny pack. Complete with a peace sign on it as "Democrat camo". Plus that's where I keep my "piece" :).

nick
05-26-2009, 12:19 PM
Other than the obvious whats the real pros and cons between the two,
would you use a Single action as a HD gun? Etc. etc.

Well, most DA revolvers can also do SA. So why limit yourself to SA in the first place? Also, you have a few semiautos to choose from for HD, anyway. Don't let eccentric revolver nuts like Jim march, the ones with decades of practice, sway you :)

Oh, hi, Jim, didn't know you were here :)

1JimMarch
05-26-2009, 12:29 PM
Hey, I can do one accurate shot per second with that thing, firing ammo that spanks the 40S&W in raw horsepower :).

Reloads...yeah...I'm working on that :D.

ZOMBIEHUNTER
05-26-2009, 12:31 PM
I wouldnt feel out gunned with a SA revolver I shoot mine very well and for home defense i would be okay.If we were talking about a gun fight no i would not want a SA actually i would rather not use a handgun at all for that.

22popnsplat
05-26-2009, 2:53 PM
anyone who is proficient with a single action revolver will be a formidable apponant . The real downfall of the single action is the reload time required . For several years a single action revolver in 45 colt was my home defense weapon and I felt it was pretty good .
I belive a single action revolver is still the fastest to clear leather and hit a target , just look up Bob Munden

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 5:28 PM
Well I know I have enough Semi-Autos to chose from whether it me Pistols, Shotguns, or an AR, but every single gun in my collection has a purpose, so Really my question is...

If I get a ruger .357 single action Black Hawk what can I do with it, 9mm cylinder, whats its use, I know thats about as wide, broad and open ended as they come but nonetheless thats my question :43:

bwiese
05-26-2009, 5:44 PM
Actually I'd feel quite at home with an SA revolver for carry self-defense.

If I'm in a situation where I need more than that I am in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I usu shoot DA revolvers in SA mode anyway.

1JimMarch
05-26-2009, 5:45 PM
Besides..."style points" matter too, right?

:D

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 5:59 PM
Actually I'd feel quite at home with an SA revolver for carry self-defense.

If I'm in a situation where I need more than that I am in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I usu shoot DA revolvers in SA mode anyway.

Yeah , I never thought about that, I usually shoot DA in SA anyways,

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 6:00 PM
Besides..."style points" matter too, right?

:D

Haha, only if you have the leather holster and a black hat, but you deffanatley need ***-less chaps :eek:
lol

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 6:00 PM
Does anyone, have any links to a Brand new Black hawk, or the vaquero, I cant find anything for sale that is new?

Miltiades
05-26-2009, 6:01 PM
If I get a Ruger .357 single action Black Hawk what can I do with it, 9mm cylinder, what's its use, I know that is about as wide, broad and open ended as they come but nonetheless thats my question.

I've had a Ruger single action Blackhawk .357 for a long time, buying it new about 1969. I shoot it at the range periodically, but have never hunted with it or used it for defense. I had an urge to get a "cowboy gun" so I did. It's a big, heavy range gun and will handle any .357 load you want to use.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/RugerBlackhawk35.jpg

Mr. Beretta
05-26-2009, 6:03 PM
Single action is fine for hunting and range guns, but once the double action revolver was invented, no one carried a single action gun for defensive purposes. I certainly wouldn't choose one.

Beg your pardon. Marshall Sam McCloud (Dennis Weaver) did in the early 70's in New York city! :eek:

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 6:04 PM
I've had a Ruger single action Blackhawk .357 for a long time, buying it new about 1969. I shoot it at the range periodically, but have never hunted with it or used it for defense. I had an urge to get a "cowboy gun" so I did. It's a big, heavy range gun and will handle any .357 load you want to use.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/RugerBlackhawk35.jpg

Is that the 6.5 inch barrel?

So it is true that you can get the 9MM cylinder to use in right?

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 6:04 PM
Beg your pardon. Marshall Sam McCloud (Dennis Weaver) did in the early 70's in New York city! :eek:

Im young I have no idea who that is :D lol

johnny_22
05-26-2009, 6:06 PM
Well I know I have enough Semi-Autos to chose from whether it me Pistols, Shotguns, or an AR, but every single gun in my collection has a purpose, so Really my question is...

If I get a ruger .357 single action Black Hawk what can I do with it, 9mm cylinder, whats its use, I know thats about as wide, broad and open ended as they come but nonetheless thats my question :43:


Love my Ruger .357/.38 with 9 mm cylinder. Maximum flexibility with ammo and fun to shoot.

I would suggest Gunbroker.com since they always show up when I am looking for a DA 9mm revolver.

nick
05-26-2009, 6:10 PM
Well I know I have enough Semi-Autos to chose from whether it me Pistols, Shotguns, or an AR, but every single gun in my collection has a purpose, so Really my question is...

If I get a ruger .357 single action Black Hawk what can I do with it, 9mm cylinder, whats its use, I know thats about as wide, broad and open ended as they come but nonetheless thats my question :43:

You can shoot it in cowboy action shooting. You can use it to tell your grandkids how you used it in US-Mexican wars. Public indoctrination system being what it is, they probably won't catch on to that being a century out of date :)

22popnsplat
05-26-2009, 6:12 PM
I've had a Ruger single action Blackhawk .357 for a long time, buying it new about 1969. I shoot it at the range periodically, but have never hunted with it or used it for defense. I had an urge to get a "cowboy gun" so I did. It's a big, heavy range gun and will handle any .357 load you want to use.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/RugerBlackhawk35.jpg

that is One fine looking 3 screw

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 6:13 PM
Love my Ruger .357/.38 with 9 mm cylinder. Maximum flexibility with ammo and fun to shoot.

I would suggest Gunbroker.com since they always show up when I am looking for a DA 9mm revolver.

Ok ill check that out,

If you dont mind how much did your 9MM cylinder run you? or what do they go for now?

nick
05-26-2009, 6:13 PM
Yeah , I never thought about that, I usually shoot DA in SA anyways,

Then your DA revolver needs a trigger job, or your hand needs a workout (in the gym, don't get any ideas), or both :p

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 6:14 PM
You can shoot it in cowboy action shooting. You can use it to tell your grandkids how you used it in US-Mexican wars. Public indoctrination system being what it is, they probably won't catch on to that being a century out of date :)

Haha, yeah I know right, but my Kids/grand kids are going to be going to strict christian boarding schools in South dakota. lol

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 6:15 PM
Then your DA revolver needs a trigger job, or your hand needs a workout (in the gym, don't get any ideas), or both :p

No its cool, I just always cock it back (the revolver nick, dont get any ideas :eek:) lol I just have a habit of shooting it that way idk lol

Kokopelli
05-26-2009, 6:42 PM
Anyone can be a "fan" of single action revolvers. :cool:

HWoLZmm7IWI

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 6:49 PM
Anyone can be a "fan" of single action revolvers. :cool:

HWoLZmm7IWI

Thats not you right?

Please tell me its not!!!! please lol

hawk1547
05-26-2009, 7:12 PM
Does anyone, have any links to a Brand new Black hawk, or the vaquero, I cant find anything for sale that is new?

New Black hawk,or Vaquero,here is a link:http://www.ruger.com

nick
05-26-2009, 7:22 PM
Haha, yeah I know right, but my Kids/grand kids are going to be going to strict christian boarding schools in South dakota. lol

Fine, you can tell them Moses used this SA revolver to part the Red Sea with a single shot :)

RogueSniper
05-26-2009, 7:38 PM
SA revolver are accurate and fun. The trigger on mine is sweet and has a nice release. I would rather have my SA revolver with me on a hunting trip than a Semiauto.

Remember playing Cowboys/girls or gunslingers when we were kids? That's what really got me wanting a SA revolver. After getting one and playing around with it, then reality set in - reloading that sucker! S - L - O - W !!!

- Swing out the loading gate
- Rotate the cylinder
- Align the cylinder to the rod
- Push the rod
- Eject the empty case
- Load round
- Rotate cylinder
- Repeat five more times!!!

I wouldn't give it up, though. It rounds out my collection. Now I'm hunting around for a Schofield (modern) in 45LC. It takes the pain out of reloading!
http://www.nps.gov/archive/foda/fort_davis_web_page/Assets/S&W%2045.jpghttp://www.nps.gov/archive/foda/fort_davis_web_page/Assets/S&W%2045%20cutaway.jpg

scc1909
05-26-2009, 7:47 PM
If you're talking about revolvers, the single action guns require thumb cocking for each shot, and will be slightly slower than double action revolvers for that reason. Somebody well practiced with a single action revolver can be a fast and accurate shooter, however. I personally prefer double action revolvers for defensive us, but own a couple of single actions for the range.

I have a slightly different perspective, based on packing a DA/SA S&W .38 Police Special Revolver on and off for 15 years while on flight duty with the USAF. During annual qualification training the instructors used to have us prove to ourselves how much more controlled and accurate is SA vs DA. The lesson? Even the best DA pistol introduces a lot of monkey motion while pulling the trigger. In contrast, firing SA was like pulling the trigger on a bolt-action rifle.

YMMV... :thumbsup:

1JimMarch
05-26-2009, 8:36 PM
SAs have some advantages. On average their accuracy is higher, as the cylinder is fixed in place rather than swinging in and out on a crane. The way they soak up recoil and their overall ergonomics are superb, designed literally in the Victorian era by people who had a far better feel for hand tools than modern engineers running CAD/CAM systems.

For those interested in buying an SA:

One of the FIRST choices you need to consciously make is, "do I want a gun with a modern internal safety or not?".

ALL Rugers post-1973 (also known as "two screw" or "New Model") come standard with a transfer bar safety. That means if the trigger isn't pulled fully deliberately back, they ain't gonna go bang no matter if they're dropped or even slammed right on the hammer.

Pre-'73 Rugers like the "three-screw" 357 pictured originally didn't have safeties. That means that like a real 1873 Colt, if you drop it fully loaded it might go off. Slam the hammer on something (or drop it ON the hammer) and it WILL go boom. So you carry those "five up" - load one, skip one, load four, bring it to full cock, decock it, you have the hammer resting on the empty chamber.

That's how Wyatt Earp and all those guys back then carried, if they had half a brain. If they knew they were headed into trouble, they MIGHT load the 6th round.

Ruger offers a free retro-fit program to turn pre-'73 guns into transfer-bar-equipped specimens. Some feel it slightly screws up the trigger feel and deliberately don't do that. No problem, as long as you understand what you've got.

Uberti, USFA, Colt, Charles Daly, Pietta, Armi San Marco, Armi Chiappa and others still make "no safety, carry 'em five beans in the wheel" true clones of the 1873 Colt.

Ruger doesn't.

Beretta bought Uberti (the best of the Italian SAA makers) not that long ago, and had them build Beretta-branded variants with Ruger-style transfer bars. The quality on both Beretta and Uberti SAs isn't half bad; cosmetically they often beat Ruger, but when you get into high round counts or a gun you want to trust your butt to, Ruger makes the better gun.

Taurus' "Gaucho" is also a transfer-bar-equipped SA, but with horrible quality control problems. Avoid at all cost.

The highest quality SA guns made are by Freedom Arms. It is impossible to overstate how cool these are...for prices starting at around a grand USED. Each cylinder is cut to the exact frame it will ship with, eliminating mis-matches between the cylinder bores and the barrel. Average out of the box accuracy ranges from good to shocking, with some specimens documented as being able to exceed MOA - meaning groups of less than 1" at 100 *yards*. Consistently. Both the large-frame ('83) and mid-frame ('97) have internal safeties but ONLY the '97's true transfer bar should be trusted for fully-loaded carry.

Ok. Let's talk Rugers.

Originally (meaning pre-1973) Rugers came in three basic frame sizes: small ("Single Six") in .22/.22Magnum, mid-frame (357 and sometimes 357/9mm convertable) and large (.44Mag, also known as the SuperBlackhawk). In '73 the mid-frame got dropped...Blackhawks (adjustable sights) and then Vaqueros (fixed sights) were all built on an oversize 44Magnum-class frame, even if they were 357s (or 357/9mm convertable). This led to massively tough guns. In 45LC, which is supposed to be a low-pressure cartridge, people started realizing you could hot-rod it PAST the 44Magnum in these big guns, leading to factory ammo labeled "45LC+P" and "Ruger ONLY!!!".

In 2004 Ruger re-introduced the mid-frame size, in the "New Vaquero". This smaller gun was similar to the pre-1973 Blackhawks in overall size/heft, but with fixed sights they were a very close "size and heft clone" of the Colt SAA and a lot got snapped up for Cowboy Action shooting. As a 357 they're still tough as nails, with a cylinder beefier than an S&W 686 or Ruger's GP100. In 45LC the cylinder walls are too thin to take the "Ruger ONLY!!!" wild-child loads and you'll see warnings to that effect on the websites for high-performance ammo houses like Buffalo Bore.

My gun is a heavily modified New Vaquero 357. "Blue" variants originally had the "fake color case" finish on the primary frame; Ruger has now thankfully abandoned that cheesy mess and gone to a tasteful all-blue.

These new-release mid-frames are on average some of the best guns Ruger has ever built. They took the opportunity to change how they build the guns. Large-frame Ruger SA cylinders are drilled all-six-at-once leading to minor variances between cylinder bores, hence pressure and accuracy variations. The mid-frame cylinder bores are drilled in sequence with the same bit/reamer, leading to uniform bores. And since it's easier to check one bit/reamer setup, the uniform bores we're getting are very good. Your odds of getting a "bad monday gun" are lower, your out-of-the-box accuracy is likely to be very good for anything under $1,000, SA or DA or auto.

Ruger has a few other mid-frame variants:

* The New Vaquero now ships with an optional "Bisley" grip frame. More on that below. There's also an engraved "John Wayne Special Edition" NewVaq (sigh) which they didn't DARE desecrate with the fake color-case finish.

* The "Montado" is a short-barreled New Vaquero with a SuperBlackhawk hammer grafted on, a mod I've made to my gun that lowers my hammer reach. There are 357 and 45LC variants.

* There are now two adjustable-sight recent-production mid-frames: the 50th Anniversary 357 Blackhawk Flattop and a special Lipsey's distributor run of 2,000 44Spls that are otherwise the same as the Anniversary 357.

One of THE best deals in gun-land period is CDNN's closeout of the last 50th 357 Blackhawks for $400 each! HIGHLY recommended. See it in their catalog and call 'em up:

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/dowournewcat.html

While it doesn't have the 9mm conversion cylinder, it's a better gun overall than the convertible. It's the right size for a 357, and it's better made. Accuracy with the 9mm cylinder is only mediocre anyhow (slightly undersize jacketed bullets).

If on the other hand you really want 44Magnum or higher power levels, I strongly recommend the Ruger SuperBlackhawk "Hunter" variant, esp. the Bisley Hunter. Ruger's "Bisley" grip frame isn't all that similar to the original Colt Bisley, rather it's based more on an old custom gun owned by Elmer Keith called the "#5", but lengthened. Ruger's Bisley grip is well regarded for soaking up big recoil and for some people, just fitting big hands. It's overkill for the NewVaq I think, unless you have big mitts, but it rocks for the 44Mag or higher horsepower levels.

Kokopelli
05-27-2009, 5:53 AM
Thats not you right?

Please tell me its not!!!! please lol

No, that's not me.

However this is me getting interested with SA, back in 1957...

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk239/avmusician/Guns/img147a.jpg

Kokopelli
05-27-2009, 5:57 AM
Thats not you right?

Please tell me its not!!!! please lol

No, that's not me.

But, this is me getting fascinated with SA revolvers back in 1957...

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk239/avmusician/Guns/img147a.jpg

nick
05-27-2009, 8:47 AM
Good reading, thanks, Jim.

Futurecollector
05-27-2009, 10:30 AM
No, that's not me.

However this is me getting interested with SA, back in 1957...

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk239/avmusician/Guns/img147a.jpg

haha, ok good man, did you watch any of that other guys movies? if not go watch Osama bin laden one! lol

thats a cool pic man, what pistol is that? lol
youll shoot your eye out kid!

Futurecollector
05-27-2009, 10:36 AM
SAs have some advantages. On average their accuracy is higher, as the cylinder is fixed in place rather than swinging in and out on a crane. The way they soak up recoil and their overall ergonomics are superb, designed literally in the Victorian era by people who had a far better feel for hand tools than modern engineers running CAD/CAM systems.

For those interested in buying an SA:

One of the FIRST choices you need to consciously make is, "do I want a gun with a modern internal safety or not?".

ALL Rugers post-1973 (also known as "two screw" or "New Model") come standard with a transfer bar safety. That means if the trigger isn't pulled fully deliberately back, they ain't gonna go bang no matter if they're dropped or even slammed right on the hammer.

Pre-'73 Rugers like the "three-screw" 357 pictured originally didn't have safeties. That means that like a real 1873 Colt, if you drop it fully loaded it might go off. Slam the hammer on something (or drop it ON the hammer) and it WILL go boom. So you carry those "five up" - load one, skip one, load four, bring it to full cock, decock it, you have the hammer resting on the empty chamber.

That's how Wyatt Earp and all those guys back then carried, if they had half a brain. If they knew they were headed into trouble, they MIGHT load the 6th round.

Ruger offers a free retro-fit program to turn pre-'73 guns into transfer-bar-equipped specimens. Some feel it slightly screws up the trigger feel and deliberately don't do that. No problem, as long as you understand what you've got.

Uberti, USFA, Colt, Charles Daly, Pietta, Armi San Marco, Armi Chiappa and others still make "no safety, carry 'em five beans in the wheel" true clones of the 1873 Colt.

Ruger doesn't.

Beretta bought Uberti (the best of the Italian SAA makers) not that long ago, and had them build Beretta-branded variants with Ruger-style transfer bars. The quality on both Beretta and Uberti SAs isn't half bad; cosmetically they often beat Ruger, but when you get into high round counts or a gun you want to trust your butt to, Ruger makes the better gun.

Taurus' "Gaucho" is also a transfer-bar-equipped SA, but with horrible quality control problems. Avoid at all cost.

The highest quality SA guns made are by Freedom Arms. It is impossible to overstate how cool these are...for prices starting at around a grand USED. Each cylinder is cut to the exact frame it will ship with, eliminating mis-matches between the cylinder bores and the barrel. Average out of the box accuracy ranges from good to shocking, with some specimens documented as being able to exceed MOA - meaning groups of less than 1" at 100 *yards*. Consistently. Both the large-frame ('83) and mid-frame ('97) have internal safeties but ONLY the '97's true transfer bar should be trusted for fully-loaded carry.

Ok. Let's talk Rugers.

Originally (meaning pre-1973) Rugers came in three basic frame sizes: small ("Single Six") in .22/.22Magnum, mid-frame (357 and sometimes 357/9mm convertable) and large (.44Mag, also known as the SuperBlackhawk). In '73 the mid-frame got dropped...Blackhawks (adjustable sights) and then Vaqueros (fixed sights) were all built on an oversize 44Magnum-class frame, even if they were 357s (or 357/9mm convertable). This led to massively tough guns. In 45LC, which is supposed to be a low-pressure cartridge, people started realizing you could hot-rod it PAST the 44Magnum in these big guns, leading to factory ammo labeled "45LC+P" and "Ruger ONLY!!!".

In 2004 Ruger re-introduced the mid-frame size, in the "New Vaquero". This smaller gun was similar to the pre-1973 Blackhawks in overall size/heft, but with fixed sights they were a very close "size and heft clone" of the Colt SAA and a lot got snapped up for Cowboy Action shooting. As a 357 they're still tough as nails, with a cylinder beefier than an S&W 686 or Ruger's GP100. In 45LC the cylinder walls are too thin to take the "Ruger ONLY!!!" wild-child loads and you'll see warnings to that effect on the websites for high-performance ammo houses like Buffalo Bore.

My gun is a heavily modified New Vaquero 357. "Blue" variants originally had the "fake color case" finish on the primary frame; Ruger has now thankfully abandoned that cheesy mess and gone to a tasteful all-blue.

These new-release mid-frames are on average some of the best guns Ruger has ever built. They took the opportunity to change how they build the guns. Large-frame Ruger SA cylinders are drilled all-six-at-once leading to minor variances between cylinder bores, hence pressure and accuracy variations. The mid-frame cylinder bores are drilled in sequence with the same bit/reamer, leading to uniform bores. And since it's easier to check one bit/reamer setup, the uniform bores we're getting are very good. Your odds of getting a "bad monday gun" are lower, your out-of-the-box accuracy is likely to be very good for anything under $1,000, SA or DA or auto.

Ruger has a few other mid-frame variants:

* The New Vaquero now ships with an optional "Bisley" grip frame. More on that below. There's also an engraved "John Wayne Special Edition" NewVaq (sigh) which they didn't DARE desecrate with the fake color-case finish.

* The "Montado" is a short-barreled New Vaquero with a SuperBlackhawk hammer grafted on, a mod I've made to my gun that lowers my hammer reach. There are 357 and 45LC variants.

* There are now two adjustable-sight recent-production mid-frames: the 50th Anniversary 357 Blackhawk Flattop and a special Lipsey's distributor run of 2,000 44Spls that are otherwise the same as the Anniversary 357.

One of THE best deals in gun-land period is CDNN's closeout of the last 50th 357 Blackhawks for $400 each! HIGHLY recommended. See it in their catalog and call 'em up:

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/dowournewcat.html

While it doesn't have the 9mm conversion cylinder, it's a better gun overall than the convertible. It's the right size for a 357, and it's better made. Accuracy with the 9mm cylinder is only mediocre anyhow (slightly undersize jacketed bullets).

If on the other hand you really want 44Magnum or higher power levels, I strongly recommend the Ruger SuperBlackhawk "Hunter" variant, esp. the Bisley Hunter. Ruger's "Bisley" grip frame isn't all that similar to the original Colt Bisley, rather it's based more on an old custom gun owned by Elmer Keith called the "#5", but lengthened. Ruger's Bisley grip is well regarded for soaking up big recoil and for some people, just fitting big hands. It's overkill for the NewVaq I think, unless you have big mitts, but it rocks for the 44Mag or higher horsepower levels.

WOW jim thanks for all the good info!!!

I know have my mind set on a .357/9MM or .44Mag in the Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk... Thanks for your help!

so what type of loads do you run through yours?

1JimMarch
05-27-2009, 10:51 AM
The strongest load I've shot in mine is the Doubletap 357 "full house" 125gr Gold Dot. It pulls almost 1,600fps. Only Buffalo Bore *might* be a tad stronger.

I used one of those Doubletap 125s on a bowling ball once :). Blew it the hell up - split it clean in half, sent pieces of the concrete core back past my feet (around a 20 yard shot, managed to hit it dead center the first time). Turns out a bowling ball is about an inch-thick plastic shell and then they pour concrete through the fingerholes.

The guy who had the old bowling ball targets told me he'd never seen anything like that kind of bowling ball fatality move out of a handgun.

Again: the mid-frames can cope with ANY factory 357 load. If that's all the horsepower you need, better to run a mid-frame than a large, as the quality is on average higher.

If you do need 44Mag horsepower, you ought to at least see how a Bisley grip fits in your hand.

coop44
05-27-2009, 11:00 AM
I don't know, I sure like being able to blast away in double action. I sure like being able to hit something in single action. Hmm, gonna hafta think about it ( smoke coming from ears, gears grinding ) Iam dun thunkin 'bout it, evy time I shoot my dubba action I cock it anyhoo

Seriously I converted a s+w mod 14 to single action a long time ago. I can still hit a pie tin at 50 yards ( gotta aim just over the top )almost every time.
all the plus of a double action with the sweet trgger of a single action

sure its a 38 but it all depends how you define firepower, being able to hit with one shot, or just shoot and holla sh*t

Jonathan Doe
05-27-2009, 3:56 PM
I ran a combat course with a single action revolver. The course was designed for semiauto pistols to shoot 18 rounds in 85 seconds in different stages. I ran the course in 87 seconds and hit all the targets. Of course it included reloadings. If you are getting better with the S/A, you can shoot accurately and fast.

lizardking97251
05-27-2009, 4:10 PM
The only advantage I can think of for a single action for home defense is that you can sleep with it under your pillow without worrying about pulling the trigger in your sleep, but you'd have to be pretty paranoid to want to sleep with a gun under your pillow.

scr83jp
05-27-2009, 4:24 PM
Does anyone, have any links to a Brand new Black hawk, or the vaquero, I cant find anything for sale that is new? do a google search for lipseys then click on lipseys exclusives they have ruger specials, several years ago I purchased a lipseys exclusive ruger ss single six 4 5/8" barrel with 22lr & 22 mag cylinders

nick
05-27-2009, 11:00 PM
but you'd have to be pretty paranoid to want to sleep with a gun under your pillow.

Nah, it's just common sense :)

GoodEyeSniper
05-27-2009, 11:07 PM
Jim just made me want a single action revolver!

Also, I may have just missed it, but did you mention what model your revolver is, pictured earlier in the thread?