PDA

View Full Version : 9 mm carbines


Juno05
05-26-2009, 12:58 AM
Hey Calgunners,

Kind of a pedestrian question. I'm examining 9 mm carbines, as I'd like to have a long gun that can fire my chosen pistol cartridge. I've seen Ruger's PC9, the Colt-based carbine (Olympic Arms K9?), Hi-Point's 9 mm carbine, Beretta's CX4, and Kel-Tec's SUB-2000.

Any feelings on these weapons? Are there others I'm missing? I've only shot the SUB-2000, and it's pretty nice, though I didn't really attempt to see how accurate it was (rattled off a mag and was like, "Whoa, cool!").

Thanks folks.

CHS
05-26-2009, 1:01 AM
Colt-pattern 9mm AR using a CMMG ramped bolt. There is no better choice.

sierrawoodsman
05-26-2009, 1:02 AM
You missed the marlin camp 9. Great guns, It used S&W model 59 mags and was very reliable. It had a bigger that was a .45 and used 1911 mags.

Of the ones you mentioned I would go with the ruger(if you can find one) because of the common mags and you dont need a mag lock.

Quiet
05-26-2009, 1:27 AM
Don't forget all the HK94 clones.
CAI also has a semi-auto Sterling Mk4 clone.

Juno05
05-26-2009, 1:42 AM
The SUB-2000 uses P226 mags, though, which is another pistol I'm examining. That seems like an appealing combination.

It'd be nice to buy a new weapon, instead of searching for the Marlin Camp 9. It does look like the most polished of the bunch, though.

Man, a Sterling? Thanks for the heads up on that.

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 1:54 AM
Can you even get a Sub2000 in cali?

Juno05
05-26-2009, 1:56 AM
Can you even get a Sub2000 in cali?

Aw man, that'd be one more reason to move back to Washington state.

Sicarius
05-26-2009, 7:35 AM
UZI clone is another great choice.
Kevin

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 8:46 AM
I know you would have to have a Mag lock on the Sub-2000 but is it on the list at all?
My saved copy of the list wont open up! :mad:

anyways, They are so cheap I like them alot!!!

we should all write Kel-Tec and ask them to make it a pistol lol :)

vandal
05-26-2009, 8:48 AM
HK94 clone

X-NewYawker
05-26-2009, 8:49 AM
In the day (pre-Ca-ban) I had both the COlt 9mm AR and the HK 94 and SP-89

I thought the 9mm rifle was a cool idea until I got 33 round magazines for my Glock 17. Then I realized I had the same firepower in a totally concealable, carry-able package. The size of the 9mm carbines just didn't make sense.

Juno05
05-26-2009, 9:31 AM
The accuracy and velocity gain out of a carbine is what I'm going for. It's not always that much in velocity, but the easier-to-attain accuracy of the carbine is pretty nice.

grahlaika
05-26-2009, 9:51 AM
My OlyArms .45 upper works very nicely, so I imagine their 9mm should work just as well.

zaitcev
05-26-2009, 9:55 AM
The only choice for California is Ruger PC-9 (they also used to make a .40 version, which was even better). It has no pistol grip.

Marlin Camp is sort of useable, but it's a more complex, tricky gun, compared to the PC-9. On the instances when I examined it, I always was unimpressed by the workmanship and design of it.

Even if not for insane AWB we have in California, Ruger would've been my top choice because it can shoot any ammunition. SUB is reasonably reliable, but, for example, Kel-Tec advises against using aluminum cased ammo in it. Ruger essentially has no limitations on what you can put into it, including +P. Thanks to the heavy weight of the recoiling part (located under the barrell), it's not sensitive to loads. Also, locating the inertia block under the barrell helps reducing the overall length of the gun, compared to the same SUB and Camp.

Reusing military platforms (like AR) for 9mm is well known in the world. Russian Izhmash in particular offer an excellent AK rework known as "Bizon". But in general I think the shorter length and lower energy of the cartridge is asking for its own design.

-- Pete

{Oh BTW, forgot: if you're looking for a home defence long gun for your woman, please have her take a look at 30 Cal. Carbine. Something to think about.}

aplinker
05-26-2009, 9:56 AM
The accuracy and velocity gain out of a carbine is what I'm going for. It's not always that much in velocity, but the easier-to-attain accuracy of the carbine is pretty nice.

The velocity gains are quite substantial. Hot 9mm out of a rifle will penetrate just about anything.

It also has no perceptible recoil, is cheap and shooting a rifle, as you said, is very accurate.

They definitely have their place.

JAGGUY
05-26-2009, 9:58 AM
Don't discount the HiPoint 995. Great fun and very reliable. Takes some effort and a little luck to get one in the PRK.
Easy to make a bullet button for too.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/GWUISTER/HP995.jpg

-greg

Juno05
05-26-2009, 10:09 AM
I'm getting the feeling this might be something I wait to get after I leave California. Some day. After all, options are nice.

Appreciate all the info, however! Thanks folks.

FJKernel
05-26-2009, 10:29 AM
Well, if you've got any skills.... there's always 80% options.... Build parties forming now. OLL....

Sten mag model for Olympic Arms' uppers... 9mm, 45ACP hollow points and probably 10mm & 40 S&W hollow points (not fmj) ready in one week and includes black mag catch.

Prototype in 45ACP
http://www.yellowlogic.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/ar/sten_ar.jpg

Production test piece
http://www.yellowlogic.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/ar/sten_p3_80_2.jpg

Or "Colt/RRA" style... included feed ramp, titanium ejector and roll pins... ready this Thursday

As a pistol (again, prototype...)
http://www.yellowlogic.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/ar/9mm-pistol-right.jpg

http://www.yellowlogic.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/ar/9mm_p2_1.jpg

http://www.yellowlogic.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/ar/9mm_p2_2.jpg

http://www.yellowlogic.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/ar/9mm_p2_3.jpg

http://www.yellowlogic.net/marine-electronics/BILLET.html

There's always the standard mag well model also.

Sicarius
05-26-2009, 10:33 AM
I'm liking the .45... now if it uses thompson mags....
Kevin

FJKernel
05-26-2009, 10:42 AM
Don't be jumpin' ahead of my product releases!

Juno05
05-26-2009, 10:47 AM
OK, now that looks pretty cool. I have no skills, but that's still pretty cool.

FJKernel
05-26-2009, 11:05 AM
Well, what about this??

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=182387

Steyr_223
05-26-2009, 11:21 AM
UZI Mini Carbine

http://www.famous-guns.com/wp-content/uploads/uzi-6-mini.jpg
http://www.famous-guns.com/wp-content/uploads/uzi-7-mini.jpg

CHS
05-26-2009, 11:53 AM
UZI Mini Carbine
http://www.famous-guns.com/wp-content/uploads/uzi-7-mini.jpg

That's an NFA weapon that you can't get in CA.

EZ G
05-26-2009, 11:59 AM
I have owned the Marlin in .45 and the CX4 in 9mm and the Ruger PC 4.

I sold the marlin. Shot great but I was less than impressed with it's quality of parts and ruggedness.

cx4 and PC 4 are keepers and AWESOME Ruger is more sturdy and does not require filling in the thumbhole and or a bullet button. If I could find one in 9mm I would buy it in a heart beat.

Kel tec's have the mag compatibility going for them but they are pretty cheaply built (and I like kel tec's : )

Nate74
05-26-2009, 12:19 PM
I too am a fan of the PC9. I had mine up at Angeles just this past Saturday and had a blast on the silhouettes on the handgun side.

It takes my older P89 magazine and has always been a reliable little carbine.

The only issue I've had related to it is that it shakes my Millet SP1 hard enough that it always stops working after about 5 rounds... not sure if I have a bad SP1 or what... Oh well, I can use the practice with the iron sights.

Steyr_223
05-26-2009, 12:47 PM
That's an NFA weapon that you can't get in CA.

Sorry, wrong pic here is the one..Slap on a vector receiver and fix the folding stock and it should be legal in Cali.

;)



http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130041353

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/130041000/130041353/pix675988000.jpg

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=129720838

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/129720000/129720838/pix441217984.jpg

Hitman
05-26-2009, 1:38 PM
Someone had a Thompson pistol for sale on the boards.

Anyhow... I have the HK94 clone and AR15 in 9mm. Great to shoot indoors.

I have pictures on the boards if you want to check them out.

IsaacGlass
05-26-2009, 2:06 PM
I too am a fan of the PC9. I had mine up at Angeles just this past Saturday and had a blast on the silhouettes on the handgun side.

It takes my older P89 magazine and has always been a reliable little carbine.

The only issue I've had related to it is that it shakes my Millet SP1 hard enough that it always stops working after about 5 rounds... not sure if I have a bad SP1 or what... Oh well, I can use the practice with the iron sights.

Its probably your Millet SP1, I have a PC40 with a Tasco Cheap RDS its been through 700 rounds and still hold zero.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=535901

Nate74
05-26-2009, 2:39 PM
Its probably your Millet SP1, I have a PC40 with a Tasco Cheap RDS its been through 700 rounds and still hold zero.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=535901

Yeah, I've figured that for about 5 years and still can't seem to get motivated to try to get it fixed.

I have that same Tapco for when I configure my 10/22 all tacticool style.

Dirtbiker
05-26-2009, 3:07 PM
I used to have a Camp 45 and it was a blast to shoot.

But of course it split its stock and would kick the mag out of the bottom of the rifle if you didnt keep your hand on it.

I thought I was getting a ton of money when I sold it for $400 and now I seem them sell for $750 :eek:

I just built a 9mm RRA AR-15 so I'm looking forward to shooting a rifle indoors again.

CHS
05-26-2009, 3:14 PM
I just built a 9mm RRA AR-15 so I'm looking forward to shooting a rifle indoors again.

Just be sure to use C Products magazines. They are 1/3 the price and utilize the BHO device. These are the Colt OEM magazines also.

Plus, 44mag.com carries the 20rd and 32rd versions that you can import as rebuild kits and make some easier-to-handle 10/20's or 10/32's.

coop44
05-26-2009, 3:22 PM
A 44 or 357 lever gun mag capacity good, no compliance issues, very accurate, more powerful ammo. I have matching caliber handguns too. Accuracy on par or better than most semis. Ruger carbines for reliability durability and simplicity seem to be good 9mm popguns.

mala in se
05-26-2009, 3:30 PM
i always wondered what shot groups look like in 9mm AR types. i consistently shoot 10/9 (black) all day w/ my 20" in 5.56 using irons only. would it be safe to say i would get sub par results from 9mm?

i see people from time to time at metcalf.

i would seriously consider building a 9mm AR if the results were decent as most of my handguns are 9mm.

yay for my 200th post!

spareparts
05-26-2009, 3:46 PM
I'm an advocate for the PC9, if you can ever find one. The thing will literally eat anything you feed it. I've had it since the late 90's and never had a jam. Another bonus for a defense weapon is that it's built like a tank, if you run out of ammo it would make a great war club. And what everyone else said...you don't have to worry about pistol grips, bullet buttons, etc.

Check this out from the owners manual:

AMMUNITION
The RUGER CARBINE is chambered for, and designed to properly function with, only factory loaded 9mm Luger (Parabellum) or .40 Auto ammunition(standard, high velocity, +P, or +P+ ammunition) manufactured to U.S. industry standards.

Could someone explain what a +P+ is?


I got a lucky score on mine. I bought a rifle from a local gun store when I lived Arizona in the late 90's for $150. It was pretty beat up. I refinished the stock, took it out and fired it, and realized that I didn't like it. Took it back to the same store and traded it straight across for the PC9 which was marked at about $250. The store owner had no clue it was the same gun he sold me a month earlier and thought he was getting the better end of the deal.

Nate74
05-26-2009, 3:54 PM
I got a lucky score on mine. I bought a rifle from a local gun store when I lived Arizona in the late 90's for $150. It was pretty beat up. I refinished the stock, took it out and fired it, and realized that I didn't like it. Took it back to the same store and traded it straight across for the PC9 which was marked at about $250. The store owner had no clue it was the same gun he sold me a month earlier and thought he was getting the better end of the deal.

I've done that with guitars but never guns. Nice:)

CHS
05-26-2009, 4:38 PM
Could someone explain what a +P+ is?


It's more P than a +P. It's like ++P.


All joking aside, that really is what it is. +P is hotter than normal ammunition, loaded to higher pressures. +P+ is hotter and loaded to higher pressures than even +P.

coop44
05-26-2009, 5:15 PM
+p ammo is a proof load that developes pressures at the ammunition industries maximum allowable pressure for the case and available firearms. +P+ is essentially sub gun ammo and should be fired out of very strong pistol actionslike sig, hk, ruger, if at all. I Would not, In my opinion it is better suited to blow back carbines, Go ahead flame away.

SVRider
05-26-2009, 5:16 PM
A 44 or 357 lever gun mag capacity good, no compliance issues, very accurate, more powerful ammo. I have matching caliber handguns too. Accuracy on par or better than most semis. Ruger carbines for reliability durability and simplicity seem to be good 9mm popguns.

....or you could go semi. Ruger had built 44 semi-auto carbines for a long time. Too bad they stopped making them a few years back.

The older ones (Deerslayer and 44 Carbine) were tube fed, the newer ones 4 round rotary magazine. They are pretty cool as they are like a beefed-up 10/22, but with a whole lot more punch. You can find them every once in a while for a good price....and as expected, they are a Ruger, so they are solid.

coop44
05-26-2009, 5:32 PM
I would have mentioned, but heck they have fallen into the catagory of "instant collectible"

Juno05
05-26-2009, 5:37 PM
Dang, lots of great information!

My initial thought was to get a .357 Mag lever-action. However, that's another caliber to the limited few I have. I'm trying to keep my caliber variances down; none of the pistols I am going to have will be wheelguns.

Otherwise, yeah, I'd be all over it. That's what drew me to the SUB-2000 to start with; Glock mags would be easy finds for it, or just use the mags I'd have with my P226.

The Ruger carbines are no longer in production, right? I can't find them anywhere on Ruger's site.

coop44
05-26-2009, 6:09 PM
hell of a lot more bang for you buck with a 357 or 44, I wouldn't be without a wheelgun.hell a black powder 44 has more stopping power than a 9

nick
05-26-2009, 6:23 PM
Could someone explain what a +P+ is?


Hotter than +P :)

I haven't seen a .40 +P+, but I used 9mm Winchester Ranger +P+ in Marlin Camp 9, and it was interesting. The accuracyactually got better. I didn't notice much difference in recoil.

Yep to try +P+ in Ruger PC4, gotta find the ammo first. Should be a fun round.

nick
05-26-2009, 6:24 PM
The Ruger carbines are no longer in production, right? I can't find them anywhere on Ruger's site.

They stopped making them in 2006. You can find used ones with low round count though, they go for about $600.

Don't discount a .357 mag lever action though. I didn't have high hopes for it, but my Puma M92 is more accurate than both Ruger PC4 and Marlin Camp 9, and it actually has less perceived recoil.

Futurecollector
05-26-2009, 6:38 PM
They stopped making them in 2006. You can find used ones with low round count though, they go for about $600.

Don't discount a .357 mag lever action though. I didn't have high hopes for it, but my Puma M92 is more accurate than both Ruger PC4 and Marlin Camp 9, and it actually has less perceived recoil.

Yeah his puma is a beast, not in recoil but coolness and accuracy! I loved it!!! lol oh and your camp 9 and PC4 where cool to!!!!:p

tonelar
05-26-2009, 6:39 PM
Everyone seems to like the maglock idea for the Sub2000 or Hi point- anyone eliminated the "pistol like grip" yet?

nick
05-26-2009, 6:47 PM
Everyone seems to like the maglock idea for the Sub2000 or Hi point- anyone eliminated the "pistol like grip" yet?

Well, for one, the mag goes into the pistol grip. Secondly, not sure about Kel-tec, but the Hi-Point would be just a cheaper and less sturdy variant of Ruger PC9 without it, I think.

tonelar
05-26-2009, 7:54 PM
Well, for one, the mag goes into the pistol grip. Secondly, not sure about Kel-tec, but the Hi-Point would be just a cheaper and less sturdy variant of Ruger PC9 without it, I think.

I've been looking into bringing in another carbine (GI/ Vector) but instead of mag locking it, was thinking on attaching a fin to go behind the grip (preventing the user from wrapping a thumb around the back).

Same basic theory as the MMG on AK and AR featureless builds.

PRK arms (or a SF Calgunner I know) had this idea originally by filling in the Norinco thumbhole stock.

nick
05-26-2009, 8:17 PM
I've been looking into bringing in another carbine (GI/ Vector) but instead of mag locking it, was thinking on attaching a fin to go behind the grip (preventing the user from wrapping a thumb around the back).

Same basic theory as the MMG on AK and AR featureless builds.

PRK had this idea originally by filling in a Norinco thumbhole stock.

Somebody did this with a Hi-Point 995, he posted the pictures somewhere on Calguns. Not sure how comfortable it'll be to shoot though.

sergeantrex
05-26-2009, 8:44 PM
I used to shoot an HK94 for my job. Great! I mean Awesome little carbine. It changed the way I look at pistol calibers. If/when the AWB goes away thats my first purchase.

Ladyfox
05-26-2009, 8:58 PM
I am curious if anyone has ever heard of an AR-style 9mm carbine that uses Glock magazines? I saw one, in the flesh so to speak, and it's been driving me nuts on how the heck it was done.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

FJKernel
05-26-2009, 9:00 PM
Chances are it's an Olympic Arms model.

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=60&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

<EDIT> Ops!

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=59&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

Juno05
05-26-2009, 9:13 PM
If it weren't for adding another caliber and another gun, I'd probably go for the lever gun.

tonelar
05-27-2009, 8:07 AM
Chances are it's an Olympic Arms model.
http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=59&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

http://www.olyarms.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/ar15-carbines/full-k9-gl.jpg

That'd be so pretty... what mags do the non-glock lowers for 9mm ARs take? Are they modded Uzi mags?

Dirtbiker
05-27-2009, 8:43 AM
They use either a modded uzi mag or CProducts makes new ones. The uzi mags just need a new mag catch cut.

FJKernel
05-27-2009, 1:52 PM
Hey, go back and check out my post on page 2. It's a Sten mag lower for Olympic Arms' pistol caliber uppers. 9mm plus 10mm, 40S&W and 45acp Hollow Points. Working on a model that takes "Grease Gun" mags for FMJ 45, 10 & 40's.

You can get 32 rounds of 9mm or 15 rounds of 45 into a Sten mag and they feed fine. A grease gun mag holds 30.

In California, does magazine age matter? Or should I say pre-ban date matter?

IsaacGlass
05-27-2009, 2:49 PM
Dang, lots of great information!

My initial thought was to get a .357 Mag lever-action. However, that's another caliber to the limited few I have. I'm trying to keep my caliber variances down; none of the pistols I am going to have will be wheelguns.

Otherwise, yeah, I'd be all over it. That's what drew me to the SUB-2000 to start with; Glock mags would be easy finds for it, or just use the mags I'd have with my P226.

The Ruger carbines are no longer in production, right? I can't find them anywhere on Ruger's site.

Here's the info on Ruger Site, been out of production since 2004.
I have one :)

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=4801&return=Y

B Strong
05-27-2009, 5:24 PM
Colt-pattern 9mm AR using a CMMG ramped bolt. There is no better choice.

We have a winner.

The 9mm AR is the best choice.

If given a choice between a 9mm AR and an German production 94, I'll take the AR every time.

Ladyfox
05-27-2009, 8:59 PM
Chances are it's an Olympic Arms model.

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=59&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

Interesting!

Shame that it does not look like they offer anything but 9mm in the Glock magazine model. A .45 ACP version of that would be tasty much less some other calibers.

CHS
05-27-2009, 9:39 PM
Interesting!

Shame that it does not look like they offer anything but 9mm in the Glock magazine model. A .45 ACP version of that would be tasty much less some other calibers.

Olympic is listed. So you're screwed anyways.

FJKernel
05-27-2009, 10:19 PM
Olympic could just be the upper barreled assembly, don't need the whole thing from them.

FJKernel
05-27-2009, 10:27 PM
http://www.olyarms.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/ar15-carbines/full-k9-gl.jpg

That'd be so pretty... what mags do the non-glock lowers for 9mm ARs take? Are they modded Uzi mags?

Their (Olympic) other version of a 9mm system takes Sten mags and the .45, 40S&W & 10mm use modified Uzi (45 not 9) magazines. You can get 45acp into a Sten mag for about 15 rounds. Both Sten and this Uzi mag are single feed...

Colt's version uses CProducts and there's others out there. Double feed magazine

CHS
05-27-2009, 10:34 PM
Olympic could just be the upper barreled assembly, don't need the whole thing from them.

When you're talking about accepting Glock mags, then you're talking about a LOWER assembly and not an upper assembly.

Olympic's are listed.

Quiet
05-27-2009, 10:39 PM
There are some Olympic Arms recievers that are not listed.

The Olympic Arms ARs that use Glock magazines are not listed.
They are marked (model) "GL-1" with (caliber) "multi".
Olympic Arms offers the GL-1 in 9x19mm and .40S&W.
However, the .357SIG and .45GAP Glock magazines can also be used in the GL-1 reciever.
The Olympic Arms GL-1 lower reciever utilizes a magazine release bar (none of the AR maglocks are compatiable), so you would have to modify it to be featureless in order to be CA legal.
The Olympic Arms upper reciever for the GL-1 is also modified for use with Glock magazines. Something to do with the bolt-hold open device and extractor.



The MGI MARCK-15 can also use Glock magazines.
They have two different Glock mag wells for their modular AR lower reciever.
One mag well will accept all the Glock 9x19mm, .357SIG, .40S&W and .45GAP magazines.
The other mag well will accept all the Glock 10x25mm and .45ACP magazines.

FJKernel
05-27-2009, 10:43 PM
When you're talking about accepting Glock mags, then you're talking about a LOWER assembly and not an upper assembly.

Olympic's are listed.

Yes, I totally understand that. Previous posting said "shame 9mm is only offered in Glock mags" which it's not. There's also a Sten mag version which either uses modified mags (like that sheet metal box on the back) or standard Sten mags with a mag well adapter or a dedicated lower like that 80% a few pages back that's cut for a Sten mag.

They offer their upper as a conversion kit for your or a OLL lower.

You are not forced to use their lower. But yes, their current offering for Glock mags is new and is being sold as a complete weapon, as referenced. But it's (their lower) not the only option is what I'm saying.

Stanze
05-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Olympic Arms will not sell anything to a CA resident. Says so right on their website, any order no matter how big or small from a CA will be canceled.

Probably $till po$$ible to purcha$e through an out of $tate buyer, but a pain in the ar$e and wallet; hence the dollar $igns.:mad:

Juno05
05-27-2009, 10:59 PM
Seems the more and more I read about this, the more I'm seeing that buying new carbines is pretty darn unlikely.

CHS
05-27-2009, 11:02 PM
Seems the more and more I read about this, the more I'm seeing that buying new carbines is pretty darn unlikely.

Why?

Go get a complete and/or stripped lower (and build it up).

Buy a Colt, RRA, or CMMG 9mm upper w/9mm conversion kit (magwell adapter, buffer, etc).
Buy a bullet button.
Buy some C Products 10rd mags.


Done. Easy.

Juno05
05-27-2009, 11:17 PM
Fair point, I'll rephrase: It seems pretty darn unlikely one is able to buy a new carbine that isn't an AR-derived firearm that requires "building it up," bullet buttons and the like.

It's just not for me.

CHS
05-27-2009, 11:20 PM
Fair point, I'll rephrase: It seems pretty darn unlikely one is able to buy a new carbine that isn't an AR-derived firearm that requires "building it up," bullet buttons and the like.

It's just not for me.

Besides AR's, which are stupid-simple to put together in CA legally, no one even *MAKES* a 9mm carbine anymore that's CA-legal. They're all assault weapons.

The Rugers and Marlins aren't made any more. The Beretta's and Kel-Tec's are assault weapons.

The AR is really the only solution and is far, FAR more accessible than a Beretta or a Kel-Tec.

Plus, the AR is the best solution anyways :) And this is coming from someone who actually owns a Marlin Camp-9 :)

Juno05
05-27-2009, 11:30 PM
Besides AR's, which are stupid-simple to put together in CA legally, no one even *MAKES* a 9mm carbine anymore that's CA-legal. They're all assault weapons.

The Rugers and Marlins aren't made any more. The Beretta's and Kel-Tec's are assault weapons.

The AR is really the only solution and is far, FAR more accessible than a Beretta or a Kel-Tec.

Plus, the AR is the best solution anyways :) And this is coming from someone who actually owns a Marlin Camp-9 :)

Hehe. Actually, the best solution is a spoiler-type one: Simply don't buy one here in California, and wait until I move back to Washington, where I can get whatever I want for much less than I could buy it here.

I do thank everyone for the valuable information provided over the course of this thread. It's great to know what my options are!

Q
05-27-2009, 11:34 PM
Hey Calgunners,

Kind of a pedestrian question. I'm examining 9 mm carbines, as I'd like to have a long gun that can fire my chosen pistol cartridge. I've seen Ruger's PC9, the Colt-based carbine (Olympic Arms K9?), Hi-Point's 9 mm carbine, Beretta's CX4, and Kel-Tec's SUB-2000.

Any feelings on these weapons? Are there others I'm missing? I've only shot the SUB-2000, and it's pretty nice, though I didn't really attempt to see how accurate it was (rattled off a mag and was like, "Whoa, cool!").

Thanks folks.

Go with the Vector clone of the uzi. They can make a CA model for you. They're an excellent company! Your money will be well spent.;)

nick
05-28-2009, 10:40 AM
Fair point, I'll rephrase: It seems pretty darn unlikely one is able to buy a new carbine that isn't an AR-derived firearm that requires "building it up," bullet buttons and the like.

It's just not for me.

I bought my Hi-Point through LAN World. They installed the bullet button on it before shipping it to my FFL.

bambihunter
05-28-2009, 3:05 PM
Maybe this is the solution....

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=188549

2fast4u
06-03-2009, 3:57 PM
Can you own these in Cal. ? Cal. Legal?

What other are out there for use in Cal. that use a 9mm. Glack mag. ?




Chances are it's an Olympic Arms model.

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=60&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

<EDIT> Ops!

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=59&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37

Quiet
06-04-2009, 12:03 AM
Can you own these in Cal. ? Cal. Legal?

What other are out there for use in Cal. that use a 9mm. Glack mag. ?

Read post #64