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Mike M.
02-27-2005, 8:29 AM
Hey Guys, I have one of the used mini 14GB (goverment barrel) prison guns sold years back, with the evil bayonet lug and threaded barrel with flash hider. My question is...If needed can I buy a replacement barrel for this with GB features? Cheers, Mike

Mike M.
02-27-2005, 8:29 AM
Hey Guys, I have one of the used mini 14GB (goverment barrel) prison guns sold years back, with the evil bayonet lug and threaded barrel with flash hider. My question is...If needed can I buy a replacement barrel for this with GB features? Cheers, Mike

bwiese
02-27-2005, 9:42 AM
Ruger's not always good at selling parts for certain configurations to mere mortals.

For example, try buying a replacement factory Mini 14 folding stock - you can't do it unless you send in the gun for repair of a broken folding stock. This is even true after the sunset of Federal AW ban and even if you were located outside CA.

Ruger also seems not to sell parts requiring 'gunsmith fitting' and that if not installed properly might cause some danger. For example, it's difficult to buy a revolver cylinder from Ruger, for example - though you might find 'em from Brownell's.

Now, another note: if your Mini-14 GB has NOT been registered as an assault weapon with CA DOJ by 31 Dec 2000, you are illegally in possession of an unregistered AW. Even if it does NOT have a folding stock or pistol grip, the combination of flash hider and detachable magazine is an 'evil' combination. (This is why Calif. M1A rifles need muzzle brake conversions to enter CA.)

As long as your Mini14 doesn't have a folding stock and pistol grip, you can make it legal to own by getting rid of the flash suppressor on it (and replacing it with a true muzzle brake, a fake flash hider, or a thread protector). These may be harder to find than their AR15 equivalents but I'd think Brownell's or Midway might have something.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Mike M.
02-27-2005, 10:00 AM
Hi Bill, Thanks for the info. I registered it, back then. It wasnt on the list by name but I knew it had those evil features so i did. Do you think Ruger still has these barrels? Mike

bwiese
02-27-2005, 10:34 AM
Mike...

OK, good that you're legal. Yes, a Mini14 with a flash hider and/or folder stock/pistol grip is indeed a Type III 'by features' AW in Calif.

Ruger probably does indeed have the barrels. Most likely you'd just have to send your gun into them for it to be rebarreled since they won't sell you a barrel. (Conceivably they might sell your FFL gunsmith a barrel, dunno.)

Now, since this is an AW in CA if you have to mail it/get it back from Ruger for rebarreling you have to do one of the following:<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> find a CA FFL holding an Assault Weapons permit to ship it out of state to Ruger (AZ? CT?) and to accept it for you when returned;
<LI> physically transport it out of CA yourself, mail it to Ruger from there, receive it from Ruger there, then reenter CA with it yourself;
<LI> remove evil features from gun and mail it directly to Ruger yourself. (This only applies to Type III 'by feature' AWs in CA.) Thus, remove folding stock and pistol grip and flash hider before mailing. Enclose a special letter (and keep a copy) stating that Ruger MUST NOT SHIP YOU THE GUN FULLY ASSEMBLED OR WITH FLASH HIDER: that is, even after rebarreling it should NOT have flash hider (and of course not have folding stock or pistol grip).[/list]

At a recent NRA member's council meeting, I confirmed verbally w/Calif DOJ senior mgmt (Randy Rossi and Tim Riegert) that the 3rd step above is indeed legal with Type III AWs. (Conditions for when a Type III AW is and is not an AW were also briefly described on Cal DOJ Firearms' website FAQ.)


Bill Wiese
San Jose



Bill Wiese
San Jose

Howard Hughes
02-27-2005, 2:17 PM
Not Sure.

I used to be an armorer for my department and we issued the Mini-14 GB's (Special CDC Model with the 1 in 7 twist). I own one of these rifles and although it is not worn out, the throat gauge shows some wear and I looked into getting it replaced. I brought this question up at a Ruger factory-sponsored police armorers school and the Ruger people told me that they would not replace a GB barrel for an individual, L.E. or not, but only for departments.

Ruger is such a politically correct PITA company to deal with that this Mini (Which I also registered as an AW) is the only Ruger product that I own.

I thought that a AW became a AW when you registered it as such. According to the DOJ you can remove evil features and un-register them but are then unable to re-register them should you wish to change your mind and put evil features back on the weapon. I must be mistaken but I thought a receiver was subject to AW restrictions once it was registered with DOJ. I wish DOJ would show option 3 in writing (They have been known to change their minds after giving interpretations and opinions) as I have a (also registered) Imbel/Steyr FAL that I would like to send to ARS in Arizona for work. I don't know anyone who is a AW dealer or what they charge for shipping. I have been thinking I would end up having to drive to Phoenix to get FAL or M1-A work done and then drive back to get them when the work was completed.

Regards,

Marvin
Five years from retirement in Arizona.

bwiese
02-27-2005, 3:03 PM
Marvin...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Marvin Gardens wrote:
...wish DOJ would show option 3 in writing as I have a (also registered) Imbel/Steyr FAL that I would like to send to ARS in Arizona for work. I don't know anyone who is a AW dealer or what they charge for shipping. I have been thinking I would end up having to drive to Phoenix to get FAL or M1A work done and then drive back to get them when the work was done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FYI, I'm pretty sure Evan's Gunsmithing Works ("EGSW") holds a CA AW permit. You can find their website by Googling.

But your M1A should NOT require any handwaving at all esp it does not have a flash hider. (If it does, it should've been reg'd as an AW in CA. But removing FH will allow you to ship...)

'Option 3' in my post above was merely an acknowledgement that CA's Type III assault weapons are 'by feature' weapons. This means Type III AWs lose their 'assualt weapon-ness' when the requisite evil features are removed, and that the receiver itself is _NOT_ the AW (unlike Type I and Type II AWs.)

The fact the Type III guns are registered as AWs merely makes them eligible for existence and reassembly as a legal AW in CA, but does not make the receiver itself an AW!

I am personally familiar with the FAL clone situation and checked into this before. I had my FAL smithed into working shape by Rich at Century Gun Works in Gardnerville, NV (greater Reno/Tahoe area; http://www.cgwguns.com ). He shipped the rifle back to me in two separate shipments, the barreled upper (no flash hider!), and the lower.

In fact, the Calif. DOJ firearms website touches on key elements of this on their AW FAQ page (at http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/regagunfaqs.htm ):

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">13. If I registered my SB23 assault weapon and now I remove the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, can I cancel the registration?

Yes. If the defining characteristics establishing a firearm as an SB23 assault weapon are removed, it's no longer an assault weapon and the registration may be canceled. However, once the registration is canceled, you can never replace the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, or you will be in possession of an illegal weapon.

THIS APPLIES ONLY TO FIREARMS DEFINED AS ASSAULT WEAPONS BY CHARACTERISTICS (CPC section 12276.1). THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO ORIGINAL ROBERTI-ROOS ASSAULT WEAPONS OR AK-AND AR-15-SERIES WEAPONS, IN THAT REMOVAL OF THEIR CHARACTERISTICS DOES NOT NEGATE THE REQUIREMENT TO REGISTER THE ASSAULT WEAPON. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, avoiding the side issue of registration cancellation, we can see that Type III 'by feature' guns can temporarily lose their AW status if evil features removed.

Just to re-clarify this in case DOJ website were perhaps outdated, I asked this at the NRA Members Council meeting hosting Randy Ross and Tim Riegert of Cal DOJ Firearms division. Their direct and unequivocating answer was "Yes", when I asked them if direct shipment of a Type III AW to an out-of-state FFL gunsmith was legal - as long as AW did not have any offending 'evil features'. (As a further clarification, this does not apply to by-name FN-FAL rifles, just FAL clones, etc.)

Your FAL clone setup may be different than mine. If you somehow have a true flash hider on it, even the barreled upper is still an assault weapon in CA: remove the flash hider before shipment. If for some reason the flash hider is permanently affixed, you're gonna have to solve that one yourself.

Make SURE that you give SPECIFIC WRITTEN instructions to your out-of-state gunsmith as to the specific non-assault weapon configuration you want back, and the packaging thereof (i.e., getting your FAL back in two separate pacakages, one for upper, one for lower). RE-EMPHASIZE these requirements to him verbally! You DON'T want him to send you back a violating piece of hardware, nor do we want a good gunsmith in a free state charged w/violation of CA law (yes, this could in theory happen)!


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Howard Hughes
02-27-2005, 4:18 PM
Thanks Bill.

I'm never been to Evans Gunsmithing Works but it's nice to know they are there....not real close but there. My M-1A's were registered as AW's back then due to the flash suppressors.

Thanks very much for the info.

Marvin
Five years away from retirement in Arizona

bwiese
02-28-2005, 10:44 AM
Marvin,

No worries, glad to help.

If you do exactly what I have written above you will be legal (unless your FAL upper or M1A for some reason has a permanently-affixed flash hider) when you ship directly to out of state FFL gunsmith.

Bill Wiese
San Jose