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Asphodel
05-24-2009, 9:43 PM
Hello, Calguns people,

This might not be the correct area for this posting, but I thought I'd put this here as its probably read by the most Calguns participants.

A good friend had a collection of valuable and historic rifles stolen a bit less than a week ago, by a criminal who broke into his vehicle.

Please watch for any of these to be offered for sale anywhere, and, should you see one or more, call Officer D. Okamoto, of the Campbell PD, re case #2009-1993

BAR (semi) 1918 Ohio Ordnance S/N 1334
M1A semi Springfield Armory S.N 018997
G43 BLM German semi 8mm Mauser S/N to follow
M1941 Johnson semi S/N 7148
M1922 M2 Springfield .22 (like an 03, but original 22) S.N 20195
M1 30 carbine Underwood mfg. S/N to follow
S&W 686 .357 mag S/N to follow

Some of these rifles are quite rare and valuable, and were the treasured collection of our friend, who spent many years in finding them, and for whom some of these have sentimental value.

Would those of you who also participate on other firearms-related internet boards across the country please post this list there? I'd think it likely that anyone who would steal these rifles would arrange to have them taken well away from here before trying to sell them, as some, particularly the blued Johnson, are moderately well-known amongst 2A people in this area.

Thank you

cheers

Carla

bodger
05-24-2009, 9:46 PM
Hello, Calguns people,

This might not be the correct area for this posting, but I thought I'd put this here as its probably read by the most Calguns participants.

A good friend had a collection of valuable and historic rifles stolen a bit less than a week ago, by a criminal who broke into his vehicle.

Please watch for any of these to be offered for sale anywhere, and, should you see one or more, call Officer D. Okamoto, of the Campbell PD, re case #2009-1993

BAR (semi) 1918 Ohio Ordnance S/N 1334
M1A semi Springfield Armory S.N 018997
G43 BLM German semi 8mm Mauser S/N to follow
M1941 Johnson semi S/N 7148
M1922 M2 Springfield .22 (like an 03, but original 22) S.N 20195
M1 30 carbine Underwood mfg. S/N to follow
S&W 686 .357 mag S/N to follow

Some of these rifles are quite rare and valuable, and were the treasured collection of our friend, who spent many years in finding them, and for whom some of these have sentimental value.

Would those of you who also participate on other firearms-related internet boards across the country please post this list there? I'd think it likely that anyone who would steal these rifles would arrange to have them taken well away from here before trying to sell them, as some, particularly the blued Johnson, are moderately well-known amongst 2A people in this area.

Thank you

cheers

Carla

A collection of this value was left unattended in a vehicle?

Fantasma
05-24-2009, 9:48 PM
A collection of this value was left unattended in a vehicle?

I was thinking the same, if i try to limit the time i leave my car out of view when i have a simple shotgun in the trunk.

Saigon1965
05-24-2009, 9:54 PM
I am sorry to hear about this - Those certainly are some high profile collectibles and are C&R - I do hope they are found -

sactoshooter
05-24-2009, 9:58 PM
Chances are those rifles will not turn up on any forums ... Guess I will have to tie a leash to the truck when i go anywhere now .

I hope you the best in finding them.

TregoMark
05-24-2009, 10:39 PM
Some of these rifles are quite rare and valuable,

That's an understatement. :eek: I hope they're recovered.

Trench Broom
05-25-2009, 12:19 AM
When I saw that the list included a BAR, G43, M1922 M2, and a Johnson rifle , I was like: :eek: :eek: - I would have gone ballistic! Sure looks like someone knew the value of those rare C&R's your friend had and watched and waited for the chance to swipe them. I sure hope this guy gets caught and your friend's property is returned to him. This just sucks. :mad:

CALI-gula
05-25-2009, 2:26 AM
Really, most of the list itself does not sound too high in value but combined it adds up; however, that 1941 Johnson by itself is more than enough in value to make up for a few of the others, depending on the condition it had been in. If it was in his car to go to the range or so, it was likely a shooter, or had been Sporterized" or with a cut-down barrel; even then it's value could be in surplus of $3000.

.

motorhead
05-25-2009, 10:02 AM
those were worth more than the vehicle they were stolen from. probably by someone who had no idea what they were. that's like robbing a museum. hopefully the rarity will allow them to be recovered. you can't sell these just anywhere.

Dr Rockso
05-25-2009, 10:07 AM
Probably traded for $100 worth of smack.

Asphodel
05-25-2009, 10:40 AM
Its just not appropriate for me to mention any details of the way the criminal acted, in this instance.

The victim may be willing to share the story here, later......its his story to tell, or not tell, as he may choose.....but I will say this....he is generally quite adequately 'security-conscious', and the criminal took advantage of a very unusual opportunity.

I would ask that all of you publicise the model and serial no. of the stolen weapons, so that 2A people across the country will be watching for them to turn up at a gun show, or be offered for sale 'somewhere'.

The victim is a good friend, a hard worker in the 2A field, a Marine combat veteran, and otherwise a good American.

Those weapons meant a lot to him, as you may understand. Please help by publicising the theft so that there may be a realistic chance of recovering them......and, if possible, convicting the criminal, so that he'd be put somewhere in which he'd not be able to do any more crimes for a while.

That Johnson rifle is a bit 'special'......I've fired that one myself.

Its history is that it was one of a small batch which were bought by an arms dealer in the '50's, and the parked receiver was polished/blued for sale as a civilian sporting rifle. That one is, except for the blued receiver, in very nearly 'as new' condition.

cheers

Carla

gazzavc
05-25-2009, 10:47 AM
I would hazard a guess that these rifles will turn up for sale at a WWII reenactment event.

Looking at the value and types of rifles US & German , Its a fair guess that the buyer would be someone interested in that period.

I'll post over on the WWII reenactors forum for you.

Cheers

Gary

jamesob
05-25-2009, 11:30 AM
im sure the first thing they will do is try and gring the numbers off and hack the barrels down.

KCM222
05-25-2009, 7:42 PM
im sure the first thing they will do is try and gring the numbers off and hack the barrels down.

That's such a terrible thought. I'm going to have nightmares about this now.

Yankee Clipper
05-25-2009, 8:41 PM
The victim may be willing to share the story here, later......its his story to tell, or not tell, as he may choose.....but I will say this....he is generally quite adequately 'security-conscious', and the criminal took advantage of a very unusual opportunity.cheers
Carla
If possible, in the near future, you or the victim could describe "the criminal took advantage of a very unusual opportunity" so we on this forum may learn what not to do.
Thanks!

Texas Boy
05-25-2009, 9:48 PM
Is there a national data base for stolen guns? I'm just wondering next time one of us purchases a 2nd hand gun if there is some way to insure it isn't stolen. Do FFL's do this when they transfer a gun?

cousinkix1953
05-25-2009, 11:24 PM
Getting the Ohio Ordnance BAR back might be a problem in California. These didn't exist before the Roos-Roberti AWB, so you couldn't register them at the time any way. A 90s vintage BAR replica is no more a C&R, than a Chinese made NORINCO shotgun that looks just like an original Winchester model of 1897.

The G/K-43s and Johnson rifles are selling for 4K-5K these days. A service grade M-1 carbine from the CMP is about $650-$675.

Seesm
05-25-2009, 11:30 PM
Bummer eye's open but yeah I too am very interested in HOW they got stolen please have your friend post a bit on that please to help us out and ensure this does NOt happen again. It also may HELP in the recovery.... Some info that seems unimportant can be very important in finding things.

spddrcr
05-26-2009, 12:58 AM
I think craigslist is going to play into this somehow:TFH:

Yet Another Dean
06-01-2009, 6:24 PM
I would prefer to not get flamed, and I doubt that most of you would do that.

I am/was the proud owner of those stolen firearms, and the following are the actions that led up to the theft.

I was planning to take the rifles to the range, sort of as a show and tell for several people who are as enamored with some of these rifles as I am. In the dark of night I took them to my truck and placed them in the back seat (F150 Super Cab Ford) Keeping them low and covered with the jackets and a couple of cardboard boxes full of stuff that should have been thrown away months ago, so the rifles and cases were not visible from outside of the truck. This was on Monday night about 11:00 PM.

On Tuesday I had some business to attend to and there is almost always at least one of three people who live within a house or so on either side, who watch and are suspicious of any vehicle that drives into and does the turnaround in the court in front of the house. Besides a roommate at the house usually sits at a window reading, and watches the street most of the day, so I felt it would be safe (history is not a valid judgement basis), and didn't want to be all sweaty on Wednesday morning heading to the range.

At 4:15 PM the roommate (he had been working in the front yard before he left) took his son to a dental appointment, stopped at the liquor store to get a sixPak of beer, and returned by 4:40PM. When he left he backed out of the driveway and would have seen the broken window of my truck, and said it was not broken then. When he returned the window was broken. He called me and told me what he saw. I dropped what I was doing and retuned home to find the rifles, and handgun missing. The other 3 people had either gone to the store (one), had gone to a flower show (one), or (one) were in their back yard at the time of the theft, and did not hear the window break.

As soon as I returned 911 was called and the Officer in the first posting responded in about 5 minutes. I detailed a list of all that I know to be missing and provided the list to Officer Okamoto. The investigation showed the perpetrator had not entered the truck, but had reached through the broken window, to remove the rifles and handgun. The location of the handgun was such that I can't reach in the truck far enough with the window open for me to retrieve it, so my thoughts are that the perpetrator is considerably larger than I (I am 6 foot 2 inches tall) with longer arms than mine, by a lot. There was one hand print across the door and the truck body in front of the side rear window. The perpetrator had to be wearing gloves, because the print, as clear as it is, had no fingerprints.

Being very disgusted about the lost rifles and handgun, I stopped looking for anyting else. The next day I realized my camera backpack was missing. My D200 Nikon several lenses including a 17 to 55 f2.8, a 70 to 300 f3.5 . . , a 28 to 200 f 4 . . , my flash attachment SB 800, . . .

In all my loss total to more than $20,000.00 in rifle and handgun replacement value, and more than $5,000.00 in camera and equipment replacement value. Somewhere between $25,000.00 and $30,000..00 lost. There was no insurance coverage, except for the $1,000.00 from the NRA, and I doubt that they will give me that as I had the receipts for purchasing the firearms in their cases (I KNOW, DUMB DUMB). BUT, they are normally in the gun safes.

The handgun,, and M1 Carbine were on loan to me, to estimate their values so I could purchase them. The handgun owner lives in Nevada, (with CA NV dual citizenship), and I have no way of locating him until he returns. The M1 Carbine owner does not have the serial number, nor does the person he purchased it from. I will have to purchase them NOW!

The potential perpetrator, who does not live here now, but would not have been noticeable, and would have known who was home and who was not. He is suspected of being involved with drugs (his girlfriend seems to be quite spaced out sometimes [not drunk], and is completly lucid other times), with the police digging through his truck, about 2 1/2 weeks before the firearms theft. He is about 6 foot 5 to 6 foot 6, and has very long arms. In the past he beat his girlfriend (she has his son), and can't have legal firearms. His father (when he was alive) sold me two of the sons' favorite handguns since he couldn't pass them on to his son, and his son knew that.

Well, I am cried out, for the moment, but will try to answer questions that some may have.

Yet Another Dean

semper fi

`

KCM222
06-01-2009, 6:42 PM
For your sake I hope it was the guy who you gave to the police as a possible lead in hopes you get your guns back. Best of luck.

bodger
06-01-2009, 6:55 PM
Yes, best of luck.
I guess the best lesson on how to avoid this is that the world is such a place now as to not be able to leave anything, anywhere, if it has value, where it can be stolen. Not so easy to do always.

I'm a general contractor, and as hard as I try to never leave any of my gear in my vehicles, I have done it, and I have been hit.

Let's hope it's the number one suspect and the cops recover your guns.

Yankee Clipper
06-01-2009, 8:50 PM
Yet Another Dean
semper fi
`
Dean,
Sorry to hear about this loss and how it happened. I know you'll be kicking yourself using 20/20 hindsight but PLEASE, it is after all just hardware (albeit hard to replace hardware). If we ever get to the place, in our society, where we don't have chemical dependant outcast roaming our streets you and I won't have to worry about such incidents.
Sorry you’re going through this!
Semper Fi back at yah.

Serpentine
06-02-2009, 10:47 AM
Dean,

The best thing you could do is what you've done, to get the word out, on as many forums you can. This news travels fast and this is a tight community, especially these rare USGI collectibles. Suggest you contact Mike and Karl Krause if you haven't already. I have the numbers if you need them. Call the San Jose property room from time to time to check on them. The cops are super busy these days and don't always have the time to notify the owners of recovered property.


Dean is a good guy and these were hard to find treasures he's spent many years to obtain in just the right condition he wanted them.


We'll keep our radar up for them Dean.

Barry

Dirtbiker
06-02-2009, 11:06 AM
By your last paragraph you seem to be implying you know the identity of the thief? What are the cops going to do about it?

JDay
06-02-2009, 6:21 PM
This is why you don't leave firearms unattended in your vehicle. Always best to take them out of the safe on the way out the door.

Frohickey
06-04-2009, 4:17 PM
btt

Ron-Solo
06-04-2009, 4:32 PM
Is there a national data base for stolen guns? I'm just wondering next time one of us purchases a 2nd hand gun if there is some way to insure it isn't stolen. Do FFL's do this when they transfer a gun?

In California, stolen guns are entered into the Automated Firearms System (AFS) by serial number so any LEO running the serial number would get a "stolen" return on it. AFS also links with NCIC, the nationwide stolen property system. If these guns surface, and someone runs a serial number, you should get the stolen info, anywhere in the US. Most states require pawn shops to report purchased or pawned firearms to the local police and hold them long enough to get a return on them.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think a DROS includes a serial number check on long guns.

Too bad these fine pieces of history have been stolen from someone who obviously cherished and appreciated them. Hopefully they will be recovered.

Your prime suspect seems like a likely candidate. Hopefully they can get some leads to connect him.

Best Wishes !

zcrehan
06-04-2009, 5:52 PM
I really hope justice is served in this case and that the firearms are all returned unharmed to the rightful owner.

I would be beside myself, just imagining them gathering rust.

pnkssbtz
06-04-2009, 6:01 PM
he is generally quite adequately 'security-conscious', and the criminal took advantage of a very unusual opportunity.Inside Job.

I'm sorry to hear about this =(

DDT
06-04-2009, 8:41 PM
I really hope these firearms are safely returned. I am a bit astounded that you would leave firearms in your unattended vehicle for such an extended period. This is especially true of firearms that don't even belong to you. I will assume it was a lesson learned at great expense and shan't be repeated.