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View Full Version : Is there a difference between a Springfield M1A vs M1A1?


RogueSniper
05-24-2009, 2:53 PM
I've been searching around the Net and I haven't found anything definitive. Some say that the M1A is the updated M14 and others say the M1A1 is the Civilian version of the M14. Aren't they both civie versions of the M14, in regards to it being non-full auto? Are there any unique identifying features?

J_Rock
05-24-2009, 3:03 PM
I've been searching around the Net and I haven't found anything definitive. Some say that the M1A is the updated M14 and others say the M1A1 is the Civilian version of the M14. Aren't they both civie versions of the M14, in regards to it being non-full auto? Are there any unique identifying features?


Yes Id say theres a huge difference as illustrated here. I mean 7.62 NATO vs 120mm, thats a pretty huge difference in stopping power. Also wood furniture vs depleted uranium, something to consider from an aesthetic standpoint. Also maintenance would be a huge issue if you dont have the supplies, I would steer away from the M1A1 if you arent very mechanically inclined. Im not sure what your price range is but an M1A1 is too much for most of us.

M1A:
http://www.webarms.com/Gun%20Suppliers/Springfield%20Armory/SA9102Large.gif

M1A1:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/images/abram14.jpg

Guns R Tools
05-24-2009, 3:05 PM
I see that second one doesn't have flash hider.

phamkl
05-24-2009, 3:09 PM
Joking aside - I believe that people aren't used nomenclature that begins with an "M" and ends with a letter, so they add the "1" themselves.

As far as I can tell, the correct name for the M14 pattern rifle made by Springfield Armory is M1A, and M1A1 is a misnomer.

asgalindez
05-24-2009, 3:09 PM
The M1A is the civilian semi-auto version of the M14.
M1A
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/93/SA_M1A_NM.jpg/300px-SA_M1A_NM.jpg
M14
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/M14_afmil.jpg/300px-M14_afmil.jpg

The M1A1 is a version of the M1 Carbine, with a pistol grip and folding stock.
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Rifles/M-1_Carbine.jpg

There's also the M1A2, M1A3, M2, M2A2, and M3 versions.

Here's a link regarding the M1/M2/M3
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Rifles/M-1_Carbine.htm

vantage
05-24-2009, 7:30 PM
There's also a Thompson M1A1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_gun):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/ThomsonSubmachineGun1928A1.png/800px-ThomsonSubmachineGun1928A1.png

Astig Boy
05-24-2009, 9:24 PM
The M1A is the civilian semi-auto version of the M14.
M1A
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/93/SA_M1A_NM.jpg/300px-SA_M1A_NM.jpg
M14
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/M14_afmil.jpg/300px-M14_afmil.jpg



Thats wrong also. M1A is the "proprietary" name for Springfield Amory Incorporated...not the same Springfield Armory under the DOD. There are several companies out now that make M14 rifles that are semi auto...they are not allowed to use the name "M1A". M14 can be full auto/select fire or semi auto.
LRB Arms, Smith Ent, Fulton Armory, Armscorp, Entreprise Arms to name a few companies that make M14s, and NOT M1As.

NeoWeird
05-24-2009, 10:18 PM
Starting towards the beginning of the last century the government changed the way it issued military designations. It changed from using the year as the model name (Model 1911, Model 1903, etc) to using a progressively increasing numbering system. The first was the M1 Rifle or M1 Garand as it's commonly known. This was passed down through ALL firearm types. The Thompson was the Model 1 Submachine gun. The M1 Carbine was the Model 1 Carbine. The Beretta became the Model 9 Pistol. The M14 was the 14th rifle model adopted by the US military and the M16 was the 16th rifle model. This is why the M4 was given a lower number than the M16, even though it came later. The M4 was the fourth model CARBINE and the M16 was the 16th model RIFLE. Based on the same action, but given different designations based on configuration. There are also small gaps for experimental models (if you look the M1 Garand alone, it had several variations including sniper versions, select fire, magazine fed, etc).

When a particular model is upgraded or simplified it is given an A# suffix. The A stands for Advanced. So the M16A2 is the third generation of the 16th rifle that our government has adopted for use. The M1A1 Carbine is the second generation of our military's first carbine.

So an M14A1 (which there isn't one if I remember correctly) would be an updated version to the original M14. The M1A1, in regards to rifles, would be an M1 Garand variant. Neither of these are what you are talking about.

When Springfield Armory was closed by the government, the purchaser renamed the production facility "Springfield Armory, Inc." to capitalize on the name. It further played the name game by calling the new model, which couldn't be called an M14 at the time, the M1A because a capital A and the number 4 LOOK similar. After this, the two start to spiral away from each other quite quickly.

So to answer your question:

1. There IS no Springfield Armory M1A1. Never has been. They MAY have imported some carbines, SMGs, etc with that designation, but IF they did, they were renamed. In either event, none of these would be M14 or M14 clones.

2. The Springfield M1A is NOT the civilian version of the M14. That's like saying a Vulcan V-15 is the civilian FN M16. They LOOK the same, and may be able to use some of the same parts, but they are far and away the same as each other.

phamkl
05-24-2009, 11:21 PM
What about rifle M2 through 13? Experimental models or something?

NeoWeird
05-25-2009, 12:02 AM
For the most part, yes. Like I said, I know the M1 Garand had a few variants, from SAW, sniper, etc. Not sure if all of those made it into new M designations, but I'm sure some did. The M15 was a SAW style M14 if I remember right. The scary thing is to think that the M2 is still in use, and yet we hit M60 by Vietnam we had hit M60, and are up using the M249 now. Just goes to show that firearms designers are not lost in the world... they're just paid good money by the government to stay quiet about it.

I used to have a page that had a list from M1 to M16 and what they were, but I can't find it now. If I come across it, I will post it.

kaboom
05-25-2009, 2:04 AM
M1A1:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/images/abram14.jpg


I'll take it! Does it come with 10rd mags?

cdtx2001
05-25-2009, 7:25 AM
Where does the bayonet lug go on the M1A1???



NeoWeird, great info on M14 vs. M1A, thanks.

motorhead
05-25-2009, 7:55 AM
there were also letter suffixs given to variants of a specific model that are not a new generation. i.e. the sniper variant of the garand, M-1D.
someone needs to dig up the list(s) now. inquiring minds want to know what all those not issued weapons were.

wm97s
05-25-2009, 8:58 AM
Starting towards the beginning of the last century the government changed the way it issued military designations. It changed from using the year as the model name (Model 1911, Model 1903, etc) to using a progressively increasing numbering system. The first was the M1 Rifle or M1 Garand as it's commonly known. This was passed down through ALL firearm types. The Thompson was the Model 1 Submachine gun. The M1 Carbine was the Model 1 Carbine. The Beretta became the Model 9 Pistol. The M14 was the 14th rifle model adopted by the US military and the M16 was the 16th rifle model. This is why the M4 was given a lower number than the M16, even though it came later. The M4 was the fourth model CARBINE and the M16 was the 16th model RIFLE. Based on the same action, but given different designations based on configuration. There are also small gaps for experimental models (if you look the M1 Garand alone, it had several variations including sniper versions, select fire, magazine fed, etc).

When a particular model is upgraded or simplified it is given an A# suffix. The A stands for Advanced. So the M16A2 is the third generation of the 16th rifle that our government has adopted for use. The M1A1 Carbine is the second generation of our military's first carbine.

So an M14A1 (which there isn't one if I remember correctly) would be an updated version to the original M14. The M1A1, in regards to rifles, would be an M1 Garand variant. Neither of these are what you are talking about.

When Springfield Armory was closed by the government, the purchaser renamed the production facility "Springfield Armory, Inc." to capitalize on the name. It further played the name game by calling the new model, which couldn't be called an M14 at the time, the M1A because a capital A and the number 4 LOOK similar. After this, the two start to spiral away from each other quite quickly.

So to answer your question:

1. There IS no Springfield Armory M1A1. Never has been. They MAY have imported some carbines, SMGs, etc with that designation, but IF they did, they were renamed. In either event, none of these would be M14 or M14 clones.

2. The Springfield M1A is NOT the civilian version of the M14. That's like saying a Vulcan V-15 is the civilian FN M16. They LOOK the same, and may be able to use some of the same parts, but they are far and away the same as each other.

So, just out of curiosity, what were M2 through M13, and M15 rifles that they adopted?

greybeard
05-25-2009, 9:09 AM
I'll take it! Does it come with 10rd mags?
Single shot.

prod39
05-25-2009, 9:17 AM
Whew !!
Great question and SUPER answers !

Thanks guys!

jtv3062
05-25-2009, 9:59 AM
Springfield inc never operated out of the national armory.

for mr Ballance to get aproval from ATF, m14 could not be used because of confussion with the usgi m14. If I remember right m1a improved m1 garand. meaning self loader.




everything you ever wanted yo know about the M14 and m14 type rifles http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/

M1A Rifleman
05-25-2009, 10:16 AM
[QUOTE=NeoWeird;2529200]

So an M14A1 (which there isn't one if I remember correctly) would be an updated version to the original M14. The M1A1, in regards to rifles, would be an M1 Garand variant. QUOTE]


This is not correct. The M14A1 was issued with the M2 bipod and the full-auto selector parts. The stanard M14 was "locked" for semi-auto only. There was not an M1A1 garand either, at least one that ever saw the light of day.