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View Full Version : 80% lower legal? No registration?


maddog
05-24-2009, 11:09 AM
I didnt think so. The problem is I have some friends that say it is. What is the true story. Please post it here. I have searched and read and have not yet seen a clear answer for these different examples-

1. I finish one 80% lower and keep it.
2. I build 5 and sell them.
3. I build 20 and leave them in a drawer in the shop.

There should be a simple clear answer to this.

Thanks to all of you as I have learned much here at Calguns.:)

Noobert
05-24-2009, 11:11 AM
you can build it and keep it, but cannot sell if you had intended to sell all along. however, if you get bored of the 20 in the drawer, after appropriate markings, you can sell it.

sorensen440
05-24-2009, 11:36 AM
IIRC You cant build them with intent to sell

domokun
05-24-2009, 11:42 AM
IIRC You cant build them with intent to sell

+1 on this. If you build them with the intent to sell, you need to obtain an 07 FFL and the appropriate local business permits plus pay the ITAR fees for manufacturing firearms/ammunition.

Building up 80% lowers without a 07 FFL is legal only if you are building them up for personal use with no intent to sell them.

maddog
05-24-2009, 12:00 PM
+1 on this. If you build them with the intent to sell, you need to obtain an 07 FFL and the appropriate local business permits plus pay the ITAR fees for manufacturing firearms/ammunition.

Building up 80% lowers without a 07 FFL is legal only if you are building them up for personal use with no intent to sell them.

Thats clear and thanks all.
1. What do I have to do to make the one I made for myself legal?
2. How many can I own legally?

Grumpyoldretiredcop
05-24-2009, 12:18 PM
1. Nothing. You'll hear a lot of talk about marking serial numbers, manufacturer's name, and place of manufacture but that's not required until/unless you eventually decide to sell the receiver. That being said, many of my former coworkers will look askance at a firearm without a serial number simply because they don't know better. I'll put a serial number on mine... something inventive.

2. How many can you afford to make? IIRC, there's no limiting number in Federal or CA law. If there is, I haven't found it yet; if I've missed it, I suspect someone on this forum will be able to quote the section in which it appears.

motorhead
05-24-2009, 12:22 PM
iirc (everyone will dogpile me if i'm wrong) you can build up to 5 per year. cumulatively, you can own as many as you can afford.
BTW-you do not register rifles. you can, voluntarily but why would anyone want to? there are no legal requirements for homebuilt rifles. pistols are a different animal.
atf has specific guidelines for rec. markings if you sell or give away one.

maddog
05-24-2009, 1:19 PM
iirc (everyone will dogpile me if i'm wrong) you can build up to 5 per year. cumulatively, you can own as many as you can afford.
BTW-you do not register rifles. you can, voluntarily but why would anyone want to? there are no legal requirements for homebuilt rifles. pistols are a different animal.
atf has specific guidelines for rec. markings if you sell or give away one.

Well? Is he wrong?
Ya know, he does only have 1,581 posts.:rolleyes:

CSACANNONEER
05-24-2009, 1:46 PM
iirc (everyone will dogpile me if i'm wrong) you can build up to 5 per year. cumulatively, you can own as many as you can afford.
BTW-you do not register rifles. you can, voluntarily but why would anyone want to? there are no legal requirements for homebuilt rifles. pistols are a different animal.
atf has specific guidelines for rec. markings if you sell or give away one.

Well, there are plenty of legal requirements that you need to be aware of when building either a long gun or a handgun. Long guns must be built in comformance with all local, state and federal laws. No Ca. AWs, NFA items (without the appropriate tax stamp), 922(r) applies, you must be legally allowed to own the gun you are building and you are only allowed to build pink guns. OK, I made the last one up but, the rest of it is true. Homebuilt handguns are actually less restritive in the sense that all of the same rules apply EXCEPT or 922(r). You can build a handgun using all foriegn made parts without any worries. I do not know of any legal requirement to register any homebuilt, non-AW long gun or handgun in this state and I'm not sure if you even need a HSC to build a handgun. As far as the number per year, I don't think there is one. I think that you are thinking about the number of PPTs per year before the ATF&E considers you a "dealer".

Seesm
05-24-2009, 4:53 PM
80% for you no markings needed... 1 per year ok. If after (for example) 5 years you think you want to get rid of you can mark it approprietly and sell it.....

You can make to sell as that is manufacturing....

And no need to dros or register a 80% part if the beauty of a 80%

AND in a free country you should NOT have to reg or dros a firearm if your a LEGAL gun owner.

Alphahookups
05-24-2009, 9:25 PM
Anyone know of good locations to buy 80% AR lowers? I did some searching and it seems like they try to keep this information on the down low.

Josh3239
05-24-2009, 9:59 PM
http://www.yellowlogic.net/marine-electronics/BILLET/15ALT080.html
https://www.vbd.com/noc/shop/products_detail.asp?CategoryID=29&ProductID=272
https://www.dlaskarms.com//product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=9&osCsid=432721a3e25f9011f7f69353f402e858

goober
05-24-2009, 10:09 PM
http://www.yellowlogic.net/marine-electronics/BILLET/15ALT080.html
https://www.vbd.com/noc/shop/products_detail.asp?CategoryID=29&ProductID=272
https://www.dlaskarms.com//product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=9&osCsid=432721a3e25f9011f7f69353f402e858
also
kevin (http://www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php?topic=1180.0)


the rest of the info posted here has been pretty accurate.
if the finished product will be legal by your local laws, you can build your own. i know of no 5/year limit but could be wrong on that.
you can not build with intent to sell.
you can sell one but you can not build with intent to sell, and shouldn't try to sell a bunch of them
there is no requirement to register.
there is no requirement to serialize (unless you sell), but some say its a good idea.
really, all this info is in numerous posts about 80% builds.
if folks aren't going to search, and/or the search function sucks that bad (i know it does), we need stickies.

maddog
05-25-2009, 8:54 AM
Some very clear answers here. Thanks everybody.

motorhead
05-25-2009, 9:57 AM
i could be wrong. the 5/year i thought was a ca thing. fed is more fuzzy, the don't specify a number but there is SUPPOSED to be a limit where you need a mfr. license.

DDT
05-25-2009, 10:19 AM
Just a quick note to say that in CA your 80% gun must be a replica of an existing weapon design. (AR or 1911 are the most common) if your design isn't a replica of an existing gun it is a zip-gun by California law. Possession of a zip-gun is a no-no.

I don't know of any case law defining just how much your 80% gun must resemble the pre-existing design.

maddog
05-25-2009, 10:22 AM
I gotta say, I am extremely relieved to find out that what I am building is legal.:cool:

Alphahookups
05-25-2009, 10:44 AM
Thank you guys!

Alphahookups
05-25-2009, 10:48 AM
also
kevin (http://www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php?topic=1180.0)


the rest of the info posted here has been pretty accurate.
if the finished product will be legal by your local laws, you can build your own. i know of no 5/year limit but could be wrong on that.
you can not build with intent to sell.
you can sell one but you can not build with intent to sell, and shouldn't try to sell a bunch of them
there is no requirement to register.
there is no requirement to serialize (unless you sell), but some say its a good idea.
really, all this info is in numerous posts about 80% builds.
if folks aren't going to search, and/or the search function sucks that bad (i know it does), we need stickies.

Thanks for the info. Am I mistaken to think these used to go for in the $50 range? Seems like they shot up with everything else.

On a side note, I can buy this and give it to someone with NO work yet performed,correct? But once the work is started, it must be finished by the same person and not sold at that point?