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captn-tin
05-23-2009, 4:43 PM
with the economy as it is, layoffs of police, firepersons, correctional officers, and the early release of prisoners, will the crime rate go up and if so will carry permits be easier to get, and if not, do those who worry about such things just carry anyway?

hawk81
05-23-2009, 4:48 PM
I keep a handgun with me at all times. Cops are a day late and a dollar short.

mister dize
05-23-2009, 5:01 PM
Crime lags a few years behind a recession. Increased crime usually means increased gun control, not more CCWs. Look at the Clinton bans, etc.

GoodEyeSniper
05-23-2009, 5:19 PM
Yeah, seems to go against common sense, but they'd probably tighten up on gun laws instead of give the law abiding citizens the ability to protect themselves.

But I'd never think about arming myself illegally. I think the chances of getting pulled over or spotted in public, and busted by a cop would be higher than the chance of having to fend off an attacker.

Maybe if there was total economic collapse, and I had to hunt small game, and deal with looters or something... :P

HondaMasterTech
05-23-2009, 9:38 PM
The risk of losing your right to own a gun at all should keep you from carrying illegally. BTW, PLEASE PUT MORE INFO IN THREAD TITLES. Thanks.

l_Z_l
05-23-2009, 9:48 PM
how about carrying a small fanny packed locked w/ ur pistol in it? although finding a decent one that won't draw attention is a whole other issue

MrClamperSir
05-23-2009, 9:51 PM
I think the chances of getting pulled over or spotted in public, and busted by a cop would be higher than the chance of having to fend off an attacker.

Especially if you look a little different or stick out at all.

Taillight out, swerving, didn't signal EXACTLY 100 feet etc. If they want to stop you they will and if your armed illegally you'll be acting pretty suspicious I would imagine.

Take your time and apply for a CCW. You'll never know if you don't try.

Dr Rockso
05-23-2009, 10:03 PM
with the economy as it is, layoffs of police, firepersons, correctional officers, and the early release of prisoners, will the crime rate go up and if so will carry permits be easier to get, and if not, do those who worry about such things just carry anyway?
If crime goes up they're going to blame Heller, Nordyke, the Obama-fueled panic buying, CCWs, and George W. Bush.

Kid Stanislaus
05-24-2009, 4:27 AM
Take your time and apply for a CCW. You'll never know if you don't try.



Get real.

jlchavis0844
05-24-2009, 8:31 AM
Especially if you look a little different or stick out at all.

Taillight out, swerving, didn't signal EXACTLY 100 feet etc. If they want to stop you they will and if your armed illegally you'll be acting pretty suspicious I would imagine.

Take your time and apply for a CCW. You'll never know if you don't try.

Acting suspicious is insufficient cause to have them search your vehicle. Only idiots give consent to search the vehicle. Make them work for it people.

B Strong
05-24-2009, 8:37 AM
I get to see it on my job. Yes, thefts are up for the last year, and are going up this year.

In any downturn, there is a rise in crime across the board.

Child abuse, domestic violence, drug and alcohol related crimes, they all increase as people act out from stressor events like job loss, foreclousure, etc.

TatankaGap
05-24-2009, 9:02 AM
just have to google 'crime increasing 2009' and see the stories - bank robberies and violent crime up in almost all metro areas - with further reduced tax bases this year, expect less social services and more crime on the streets and even highways -

there's never been a better time to always carry ;)

From a May 2009 Retailer Assn report:

"Continued Regional Increases in Crime Trends a Troubling Sign
Survey results in both December 2008 and April 2009 note upward trends in regions not
typically prone to such increases. Complex cities and highly urbanized states are often the
first to display increases in unlawful activity. Survey results show that increases have
permeated beyond these regions and onto a number of non-traditional regions.

April 2009:

• Cities: Birmingham, Chicago, Cleveland, Columbus, Dallas, Detroit, Hilton Head, Houston,
Little Rock, ,Orlando, Phoenix, Portland, Kansas City

• States: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Kansas, New Jersey,
Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oregon, Texas

Respondents noted that they are seeing increases all across the East Coast, Rural Southeast,
West Coast, Midwest, Gulf Coast and in areas with high unemployment rates and home
foreclosures, “small town America,” and rural markets.

...

Additional Serious Crimes Have Increased Since December 2008

• 55% have experienced an increase in financial fraud
• 42% have experienced an increase in burglaries
• 38% have experienced an increase in robberies "

-hanko
05-24-2009, 9:16 AM
Take your time and apply for a CCW. You'll never know if you don't try.
I've tried. Just asking...do you live in San Mateo county??:eek:

I'm more concerned w/ needing defense immediately;)

-hanko

thegratenate
05-24-2009, 9:28 AM
No seriously, educate yourself about the CCW application process, and apply, even if you are in LA or SF county, you should still put in an application, just to give our cause a voice, OTOH if you are in a county that issues, you will be rewarded for your application with a nifty little "rice paper" that allows you to protect yourself and your family any time that you are not in a "sensitive area".

Thanks

laguns
05-24-2009, 9:52 AM
No seriously, educate yourself about the CCW application process, and apply, even if you are in LA or SF county, you should still put in an application, just to give our cause a voice, OTOH if you are in a county that issues, you will be rewarded for your application with a nifty little "rice paper" that allows you to protect yourself and your family any time that you are not in a "sensitive area".

Thanks

Actually, we are allowed to protect ourselves with or without that paper.

thegratenate
05-24-2009, 10:10 AM
Just not with a firearm, while outside your own home,,, legally.

CitaDeL
05-24-2009, 10:13 AM
Yes, crime is sure to rise with budget cuts. In the county which I reside the Sheriff has announced that 18 deputies and 6 corrections officers will be cut and they are closing a floor of the county jail.

But really nothing has changed. The Sheriffs and Police are not under any duty to provide protection to individuals and had no such obligation before the cuts. In short, the availability of law enforcement is no different than a social welfare program providing services to beneficiaries. The issuance of licenses to carry concealed (ie; CCW) will not change either, as these officials seem to seek any means to maintain public dependence on their welfare program.

The reality is that we are responsible for our our safety and security in just the same way we are responsible for being gainfully employed, to pay our bills and provide for our families. So that is what we should consider when we make the choice between dialing 911 to request an armed response and arming ourselves in our defense, in defense of our family and to protect our property.

MrClamperSir
05-24-2009, 10:29 AM
Get real.

Oh okay, just sit around and wish then. That seems real.

MrClamperSir
05-24-2009, 10:32 AM
I've tried. Just asking...do you live in San Mateo county??:eek:

I'm more concerned w/ needing defense immediately;)

-hanko

No I don't and get an air taser. As I understand they are legal to carry concealed. http://www.taser.com/pages/default.aspx

MrClamperSir
05-24-2009, 10:38 AM
Acting suspicious is insufficient cause to have them search your vehicle. Only idiots give consent to search the vehicle. Make them work for it people.

Of course it is and it NEVER happens either. Sure go ahead and carry illegally and see how you react if you get pulled over and are facing the possibility of having all your gun rights taken. They will work for it if they believe something is up.

CitaDeL
05-24-2009, 10:55 AM
Of course it is and it NEVER happens either. Sure go ahead and carry illegally and see how you react if you get pulled over and are facing the possibility of having all your gun rights taken. They will work for it if they believe something is up.

You could carry it legally and still get a unjustified response through an illegal search.

I think that in those areas where authorities have an iron grip on doling out permission slips, the people ought to carry legally in whatever manner they feel most comfortable- Meaning trunk/truck guns, unloaded open carry, locked container carry... We have more than enough reason with crime being as it is- we only have more cause when the authorities wont allow concealed carry while at the same time they are releasing criminals AND cutting patrol.

The authorities cannot possibly justify allocating resources on investigation of non-crimes, petty misdemeanors, and housing someone on such charges if they cant afford to hold real criminals. If there were ever a time to assert ourselves as California gun owners, I would say this is it.

MrClamperSir
05-24-2009, 11:18 AM
You could carry it legally and still get a unjustified response through an illegal search.


Of course.



I think that in those areas where authorities have an iron grip on doling out permission slips, the people ought to carry legally in whatever manner they feel most comfortable- Meaning trunk/truck guns, unloaded open carry, locked container carry... We have more than enough reason with crime being as it is- we only have more cause when the authorities wont allow concealed carry while at the same time they are releasing criminals AND cutting patrol.


Agreed. Calguns has provided a great platform from which one can learn and assert the most comfortable ways in which to carry legally while this mess gets sorted out. The OP asked "do those who worry about such things just carry anyway?" Which I assumed he was referring to carrying a loaded firearm without permission from his sheriff/chief. Otherwise if it were legal why ask. I was agreeing with GoodEyeSniper who said "I think the chances of getting pulled over or spotted in public, and busted by a cop would be higher than the chance of having to fend off an attacker".

I believe now is the time to push for less restrictive laws and we seem to have a lot of momentum but to just start "carrying" because the budget is in the tank seems a bit shaky when we are this close.

TheCilician
05-24-2009, 12:06 PM
I'm reminded of that scene from Gran Torino:
He handles a dispute with his M1 Carbine haha

Priest: "Why didn't you call the police!?"
Eastwood: "Well I did father, but no one picked up."

thegratenate
05-24-2009, 2:01 PM
It was a Garand.

May I recommend reading the book "Breakout"?

motorhead
05-25-2009, 10:01 AM
contrary to rational thought, more crime usually makes it easier to pass restrictive gun laws. ccws will never be easier to get until the issuing agencies are forced to make them so by the courts.
as for cops, i have little use for them. a voicemail system to take crime reports would be ok for me.

Midian
05-25-2009, 10:05 AM
how about carrying a small fanny packed locked w/ ur pistol in it? although finding a decent one that won't draw attention is a whole other issue


Imagine being seen with a fanny pack. Gads.

Hoop
05-25-2009, 10:06 AM
I've tried. Just asking...do you live in San Mateo county??:eek:

I'm more concerned w/ needing defense immediately;)

-hanko

Yeah, his "go apply for it" is kind of funny. Even out here in hillbilly country you won't get one without having cop relatives or knowing somebody. Yeah, some people do get through, but it's all about who does your interview for it.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea at all to carry a gun illegally but I understand why some people would choose to do it.

Hoop
05-25-2009, 10:08 AM
Imagine being seen with a fanny pack. Gads.

And if the cops see you guess where they'll ask to look first...

The annoying part about all this is that even if you decide to just carry a stun gun they may still confiscate it (I had one I used to carry around with me, cop saw it in my car during a traffic stop and took it away).

MrClamperSir
05-25-2009, 10:20 AM
Imagine being seen with a fanny pack. Gads.

My dad use to carrying like that when we were kids. Talk about embarrassing. Oh and he wore flip flops, to tie the outfit together i assume.

nicki
05-25-2009, 3:12 PM
Let's face it, the criminal justice system has been broken for a long time and the reason we have so much repeat offenders is because they go into jail stupid and come out stupid.

Our criminal justice system just breeds criminals.

Government policies stiffle innovation, that kills dreams, it kills ambition, that is why crime is rising. Alot of people are desperate and until we change the climate, things will get worse.

Crime will effect our gun rights, alot depends on us. Florida got CCW reform because of high crime and the fact that the police couldn't protect the citizens.

A perception of increased crime may actually help us if we jumped on it.

If we do nothing however, we will become the scapegoat for all the problems.

The reality is few people will admit that they created their own problems, they have to find someone else to blame.

Accepting blame for one's own problems means also accepting that one would have to take corrective actions which most people instinctively don't want to do.

Nicki

TheCilician
05-25-2009, 9:50 PM
It was a Garand.

May I recommend reading the book "Breakout"?

touche :thumbsup:

Riodog
05-25-2009, 10:10 PM
This thread contains more FUD by a bunch of no-loads than what is considered by the FDA as healthy. I've run across peeps that have carried all of their lives and never even been asked if they have a weapon. They don't draw attention to themselves in any way, shape, or form. From their driving behavior to the cars they drive to the way they conduct themselves in public.
Rio
(sorry if this post offends by I just get fed up with all the idiotic threads lately).

CnCFunFactory
05-26-2009, 3:05 AM
This thread contains more FUD by a bunch of no-loads than what is considered by the FDA as healthy. I've run across peeps that have carried all of their lives and never even been asked if they have a weapon. They don't draw attention to themselves in any way, shape, or form. From their driving behavior to the cars they drive to the way they conduct themselves in public.
Rio
(sorry if this post offends by I just get fed up with all the idiotic threads lately).

+1:thumbsup:

Mulay El Raisuli
05-26-2009, 9:46 AM
My dad use to carrying like that when we were kids. Talk about embarrassing. Oh and he wore flip flops, to tie the outfit together i assume.


Was that with or without socks?

The Raisuli

MrClamperSir
05-26-2009, 10:02 AM
Was that with or without socks?

The Raisuli

With socks. Knee highs with stripes I think. After all it was the 70's/80's.

Mulay El Raisuli
05-27-2009, 4:55 AM
With socks. Knee highs with stripes I think. After all it was the 70's/80's.


Of course!

The Raisuli

motorhead
05-27-2009, 9:38 AM
our system breeds BETTER criminals. they go into the system stupid, they learn more criminal sophistication and make new contacts inside.
wearing sox with flip flops should bring a mandatory prison term. felonious dorkery.

Bugei
05-28-2009, 9:34 AM
Yeah, his "go apply for it" is kind of funny. Even out here in hillbilly country you won't get one without having cop relatives or knowing somebody. Yeah, some people do get through, but it's all about who does your interview for it.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea at all to carry a gun illegally but I understand why some people would choose to do it.

Actually, I did have a CCW for a bunch of years in Placer. My "good cause" was that the wife drags me along to go antiquing up and down the coast and we get a better deal in cash. And I had a baby to carry, which cuts down on your defensive strategies. This seemed acceptable to the guy who was doing the interviews at the time, a Captain whose name I won't mention here.

No cop relatives. No donations to the sheriff's campaign. Don't know anybody rich and/or powerful. Now, this was maybe eleven years ago and I understand that the guy who took over the CCW program has a different take on it, so Hoop could certainly be right.

I let it lapse eventually because it got to torquing me off that I had to ask for permission. If we get must-issue, maybe I'll reconsider, but I did get to feeling that strongly about it. If Hoop is right and the SO has tightened up CCW so that you have to have pull.....well, that kind of illustrates my point. If it's political, it's wrong.

I know, I know. All you cats in the bad jurisdictions would like to put a boot in my ***. I accept your criticism, but from where I'm standing now I don't see as how I had much choice.

And I agree with Hoop: IC (Illegal Carry) is not a good idea, but I get why people do it.

Bugei
05-29-2009, 9:35 AM
This thread contains more FUD by a bunch of no-loads than what is considered by the FDA as healthy. I've run across peeps that have carried all of their lives and never even been asked if they have a weapon. They don't draw attention to themselves in any way, shape, or form. From their driving behavior to the cars they drive to the way they conduct themselves in public.
Rio
(sorry if this post offends by I just get fed up with all the idiotic threads lately).
+1
I'm over a half-century old. I've gotten speeding tickets. And yet no police officer has ever even indicated the slightest inclination to search me or my vehicle. Keep your sticker/license/insurance card current and the odds are really, really good that no one ever will. Which means that it would have been possible to illegally carry a firearm all these years.

Not that I have. Not that I suggest or encourage it. I'm only saying that in most cases you could get away with doing so.

Yeah, I get that there are people on the board here whose mileage has varied way the heck over in the other direction, who were stopped for basically nothing and got their car tossed. I don't know what to tell those folks; it just doesn't happen to me.