View Full Version : Can I Sell One of My ARs To A California Resident?
05-23-2009, 6:20 AM
I have a friend hear in San Antonio that told me his brother in law might be interested in an AR I have for sale.
But before I pursue this any further I want to make sure it can be done legally. Several members of the U.S. Concealed Carry forum suggested i come here for answers.
Can I sell my AR to my friends brother in law and how would we go about making the exchange.
I have a Rock River Arms Entry Tactical flattop with Magpul CTR stock, Daniel Defense 9.5 Free Float Quad Rail handguard & Matech BUIS. A 30 round magazine comes with it, but I can provide a 20. The AR also has bayonet lug and the barrel has the indent for grenade launcher.
05-23-2009, 6:48 AM
This would be a great place to start http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf
05-23-2009, 6:51 AM
This rifle is good to go as far as the model of the rifle (does not appear on the banned list). In order for the BIL to legally acquire the rifle you will have to do a couple things first. The rifle needs to be fitted with some type of magazine locking device (Bullet Button, Prince 50, etc). You can give him one of the magazines, but 20 or 30 it will need to be disassembled completely before he gets it and he will have to reassemble it as a 10 rounder. I believe the transfer must go through a FFL in this state. If the BIL is new to Black Rifles, maybe he should be referred to Calguns first so he can educate himself. When in doubt, refer to the "CA AW ID Flowchart" link at the upper right hand of the page.
05-23-2009, 7:43 AM
have him find an ffl in his ao that accepts from a private party. otherwise you run afoul of the new registration requirements that are not exactly popular with ffls in other states. you ship directly to his ffl. (i'm assuming you're not a dealer)
05-23-2009, 9:01 AM
My rifle is an A4 flattop which is on App. B
05-23-2009, 9:43 AM
If it is a "CAR A4 Flattop" model it is restricted. If it is an "Entry Tactical" model with a flattop upper then it is an OLL.
05-23-2009, 10:10 AM
My rifle is an A4 flattop which is on App. B
The markings on the lower receiver on your AR is what makes it legal or illegal, please clarify what the markings on the lower receiver are.
05-23-2009, 10:38 AM
Additionally, it would help if you would note the state that you live in and the state the prospective buyer lives in.
It might be the case that both are CA, but it makes a big difference.
For example, if you live in CA, is that AR a registered California 'assault weapon'? That is, after purchase, when the registration periods occurred in 1990 and 2000, did you send in extra money and a form, and get back a special letter from the DOJ?
If you do live in CA, and it IS an 'assault weapon' (which prior posts are trying to figure out) and it's not registered, then You Likely Have Problems and should not talk to us on the forum.
If you do live in CA and it IS registered, you can't transfer it in state to anyone but a CA-licensed FFL.
If you do not live in CA, life is simpler; figuring out whether the lower is banned by name is critical. If not, a little modification and an interstate transfer through a CA FFL who is OLL-friendly will work.
05-23-2009, 11:01 AM
librarian is VERY knowledgeable, much more then me, but i believe he is leaving a bunch of things out, like even if its on the list, a "off list lower" receiver can be purchased and put together with lower parts from the original weapons, or a new LPK's, mated to your upper, and its good to go -
if you have a registered AW (register as such during the must issue period), you can have your buddy buy and OLL), and you sell him just the upper
Upper receivers dont have to go through FFL's / dealers. you can sell it to him face to face or mail it to him, no problem
but i agree. DO NOT ADMIT to being a cal resident and owning a illegal assault weapon under ca law.
05-23-2009, 11:31 AM
Op says he's in Tx and his rifle is named in App.B.
If this is the case, then you can sell the upper to him, but he's going to need an off list lower to complete it here.
05-23-2009, 1:01 PM
rock river lowers are "off list" if its a model LAR-15. Since it is a flattop A4 its a risk to have it here in CA but since it sounds like its upgraded w/ stocks ect. you might be ok. From my understanding as long as it isn't stamped A4 flattop on the receiver and its not configured the same as a factory RRA A4 flattop then your GTG. PM BWeise for better understanding or search for the post he made regarding this situation
05-23-2009, 3:35 PM
You guys have gone out of your way to provide answers with the the crappy info I provided. Hopefully this will clear things up.
I live in San Antonio, Texas
The lower is marked...
Rock River Arms
CAL 5.56 MM
The rifle started out life as an Entry Tactical
I removed the Tactical carry Handle & added an ACOG
I removed the R-4 handguard & added Daniel Defense Quad Rail
I removed RRA 6 position stock & added Magpul CTR stock
05-23-2009, 3:41 PM
LAR 15 isn't on the list. :D
With the features on the rifle, simply buy a mag lock kit of your choice (Prince 50, Bullet Button, whatever) or remove the upper from the rifle, send it directly to the purchaser, then send the lower to the FFL of the purchaser's choice (need to do this) for him to complete the transfer. I wouldn't bother sending any 20 or 30 round mags along.
05-23-2009, 4:17 PM
RRA is a strange bird, in that when they made this verboten list(s) they got RRA wrong. They listed models instead of what was actually stamped on the lower receiver. Ultimately, because the all RRA lowers are stamped LAR-15, RRA lowers are legal, and you just cant have the models specifically listed on the lists. Yours isnt listed.
a very wise forum member noted that since johnny law has a book they reference with pic's of weapons, they might not read the lower, and go by the fact its a RRA, and LOOKS like a banned weapon. heres a link t the coloring book: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf
He said it is a wise move NOT to have a RRA uper and lower if it looks like a banned weapon. He said you'd more then likely win a court battle, but why hassle
i personally one a rra lower and would never mate it to a RRA in cali under current conditions
so you are left with 2 cases now.
1. you have to make your current weapon cali legal - either adding a mag lock (bullet button) or removing evil features (pistol grips, flash hiders, whatever else in PC 12276.1 and using a monsterman or u15 stock.
going through a FFL where he'll have to fill out a DROS pay transfer fees, etc.
2. He buys a off list lower from a OLL FRIENDLY FFL (there is a complete list on this site), and brings it to functioning condition by whatever means (most people around here build their own from parts), you sell him the entire upper half ONLY (no need to go through a dealer - just ship o directly to him), and he mates it with his cali legal lower half
THAT still included it being neutered (no evil-ness), or a mag lock like a Bullet button.
Either way, he should come to this site and read as many "so you're a noObie and want a ar-15 / YOU NEED A BULLET BUTTON" type threads and ask as many questions as possible
One last thing. There is no OFFICIAL "bullet buttons are LEGAL" type laws/rulings and probably wont be until a court case comes up involving one.
The DOJ publishes ambiguous letter saying 1 of 58 DA's MIGHT??? want to take you to cort if busted.
While multiple PD and SD departments have issued training bulletins specifically telling their rank and file the bullet button make ARs etc LAWFUL and NOT AW's.
Many people have had encounters with LEO's and have NOT been arrested/weapons taken (a few have had weapons taken, not arrested)...
So...everyone who currently has a OLL AR with a bullet button mag lock believes they are in compliance with the law (There are MANY lawyer on this site who while not acting in OFFICIAL legal capacity, state they believe BB renders your rifle in compliance with the law). If you friend has too much doubt, he should keep it neutered as described above
lastly of note - if he's going to use a mag lock and keep evil features on the weapon, he hasto use 10 round or uner mags. evn with mag lock, greater then 10 round mags will make it a illegal AW.
IF he wants to use LEGAL larger capacity mags (MAGS already in cali before the ban), he will have to neuter (as described above) his AR
BTW - this is my understanding after spending a few hundred hours reading everything on this site i could. I'm not a lawyer...maybe someone will want to add to, or correct anything I've posted
05-23-2009, 4:33 PM
bullet button thread - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45321
tips for new member (**MOST IMPORTANT LINK - HAS OTHER LINKS IN IT) - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56818
sac pd training bulletin saying BB's are ok - http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf
cal oll quick ref - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=143827
cali oll friendly ffl's - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=63050
ATTENTION: Rock River Arms rifle & LAR-15 lower owners (AND FFLs!) - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=141885&page=1
New out of state conversion kit for your Bullet Button! -
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