PDA

View Full Version : Short barrel with Long muzzle brake


Untamed1972
05-22-2009, 2:00 PM
I have a question. I have seen advertised for sale and so on for example an AR with a 14" barrel, but an extended length muzzle brake/flash suppressor to bring the barrel length up to the required 16".

My question is....what's the point?

If you must meet the 16" requirement, why not just go with the 16" barrel for the added accuracy/velocity?

Is there an "upside" to a shorter barrel with extended brake/suppressor?

NDFMF
05-22-2009, 2:02 PM
The idea is that you're going to put the brake/suppressor on there, so as long as you permanently attach it, you can make it a legal barrel at 16" length including the brake. If you don't plan on using a brake/suppressor, then yeah, going with a 16" barrel would make sense, since that's the shortest legal barrel.

Untamed1972
05-22-2009, 2:06 PM
The idea is that you're going to put the brake/suppressor on there, so as long as you permanently attach it, you can make it a legal barrel at 16" length including the brake. If you don't plan on using a brake/suppressor, then yeah, going with a 16" barrel would make sense, since that's the shortest legal barrel.

I realize the brake must be permantly attached. My point is don't you sacrifice some accuracy going with a shorter barrel? A 14" barrel with an extended flash supressor is STILL a 14" barrel is it not?

If you still must meet the 16" requirement, why sacrifice the accuracy by going with the shorter barrel?

My question is not one of law, but of functionality. If my all parts together must equal 16", might as well go with the added accuracy that the longer barrel will provide.

That's why I asked if there is some "functional" upside to a shorter barrel with longer supressor?

JerryM
05-22-2009, 2:09 PM
the military uses 14.5 barells on the M4. Some optics are manufactured with this lenght in mind and a specific bullet.

Using a 14.5 barrel with the permanently attached flash suppresor gives you the opportunity to maximize the sights' features for a more accurate rifle.

AFAIK.

JerryM
05-22-2009, 2:10 PM
Also, the bayonet will fit nicely as opposed to the 16 inch barrel.

Jicko
05-22-2009, 2:11 PM
+1 to JerryM

AND.... a 14.5" barrel + perm muzzle device is SHORTER than a 16" barrl + muzzle device (most of the time, add 1.5"+ to the barrel length)

NDFMF
05-22-2009, 2:28 PM
+1 to Jicko.
+1 to JerryM.

The idea is to get you the shortest possible barrel that's still legal. In a tactical situation, you have to compromise between accuracy and maneuverability. So to answer your question about accuracy, yeah, a 16" barrel might give you more accuracy all other things held equal. But, like JerryM said, the optics you put on the shorter barrel were designed for that shorter barrel. And you also have to keep in mind that some people are trying to shave that 1.5" off in order to obtain a weapon that handles better in CQC. That's the "functional" advantage of the shorter barrel.

Sorry, my original reply was a little hasty. I should have included some more info. ;)

odysseus
05-22-2009, 3:31 PM
The difference between a 14" and 16" barrel is less a difference of accuracy at nominal (say 200 yards) distances but more one of velocity. Of course more velocity will improve accuracy at the far limits of 5.56's range, but that's something you would already be considering if you were wanting longer range performance in your build.

I would go with a 16" unless you must feel you need a brake or FS. Personally I go with 16" and put a comp or FS on anyway, the length difference is nominal with the ones I put on and it is not welded on, thus can easily be changed myself.

There's a lot of information out there on teh nets about this.
.

cmace22
05-22-2009, 3:39 PM
+1 to the above posters!


IIRC the velocity difference between 16 and 14.5 was about 75FPS.... If you were to calculate your max effective range (frangibility) between the two for say M193 it was like a differnce of 30-40 yards, if that...... And that in its self was only effective to less than 300 or so.

Not much gained or lost. The only dissadvantage that I see going with a 14.5 is for mods down the road. If I want to change my gas block, I have to get the darn comp removed first.....

14.5 feels lighter and handier than a 16". YOU CAN FEEL THE DIFFERENCE.

Untamed1972
05-28-2009, 12:42 PM
Good info guys. Thanks for the input. Never thought about the 16" actually being 16" + FS. I think I'd prefer having the flexibility for removing / changing the FS though. But good info....it was a question I had on my mind for awhile. Thanks for clearing it up.

BlackViper
05-28-2009, 1:28 PM
I actually thought of the opposite case - whereby for HD or CQC you want reduced velocity, so I've been thinking of doing a build with one of the 5" FS and cut the barrel down even shorter to still end up with 16" overall but much reduced flash and velocity (to an extent). Just thinking out loud though.

Untamed1972
05-28-2009, 1:35 PM
I actually thought of the opposite case - whereby for HD or CQC you want reduced velocity, so I've been thinking of doing a build with one of the 5" FS and cut the barrel down even shorter to still end up with 16" overall but much reduced flash and velocity (to an extent). Just thinking out loud though.

Can I get an 11" flash suppresor to go on that 7" barrel? LOL

RECCE556
05-28-2009, 1:35 PM
In addition to what the guys posted above, the gas port location (carbine) on a 14.5" is more optimal then a carbine gassed 16". Of course a Mid-Length 16" fixes that issue.

I run a variety of barrels in my training carbines and my current primary and secondary Carbines both have Colt 14.5"/Carbine barrels (real ones, not "similar", not "sorta", not "just like")...mostly for the short final overall length and because I trust Colt barrels...my tertiary backup has a FN/Centurion 16"/Mid just to make Randall and UCLAPlinker happy.

Also, barrel length does not necessarily equal more or less accuracy (when you're talking about a carbine/rifle length barrels). All other things being equal, a high end barrel (like a Krieger) in 14.5" will be more accurate than a average 20" standard A2 barrel.

buffybuster
05-28-2009, 1:39 PM
IMO:

The greatest benefit to going with a 14.5"barrel with extended brake is the carbine GAS SYSTEM is operating closer to where is it designed to operate. With the 16" barrel, the gas system is OVER gassed, which is harder on the bolt and bolt carrier.

Actually a ~12-13" barrel with a even longer brake would be even better....

Arteel
05-28-2009, 1:46 PM
If you want an overall length of about 17.5", sure.
Can I get an 11" flash suppresor to go on that 7" barrel? LOL

Untamed1972
05-28-2009, 2:00 PM
If you want an overall length of about 17.5", sure.

OOPS....I meant a 9" suppressor. Cut me some slack.....I've been up since 3am.

-hanko
05-28-2009, 2:17 PM
I actually thought of the opposite case - whereby for HD or CQC you want reduced velocity, so I've been thinking of doing a build with one of the 5" FS and cut the barrel down even shorter to still end up with 16" overall but much reduced flash and velocity (to an extent). Just thinking out loud though.
I have a couple with lw 11.5" barrels & xm177 clone fh's. Difference in weight is not significant unless you thin-down the fh. I'd think the velocity change would not make a difference given the typical range you're looking at.

-hanko

Arteel
05-28-2009, 2:18 PM
Lol, its all good. But yea, as long as you have a BB and the suppressor is permanent.

OOPS....I meant a 9" suppressor. Cut me some slack.....I've been up since 3am.