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cyrus
05-22-2009, 1:33 PM
I read this. So can I get a large capacity .22 rimfire rifle mag, based on

(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.

What does this mean?

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.
...
(c) (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any
ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it
cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.

Turo
05-22-2009, 1:44 PM
from what I understand yes, the fact that a gun has a .22lr tube magazine makes it exempt from the 10 round cap law. my Marlin model 60 is 14+1 just to show ya.

sorensen440
05-22-2009, 1:51 PM
Only if its a tube fed magazine

Fjold
05-22-2009, 1:57 PM
I read this. So can I have a get a large capacity .22 rimfire rifle mag, based on





Someone could probably tell you something, if we understood what the hell you are asking.

Jicko
05-22-2009, 2:00 PM
You still CANNOT import, manufacture, offer/expose to sell....
ie. if you have them before the ban, sure you can USE them....

CHS
05-22-2009, 2:03 PM
Yes. What Turo said.

Tube-fed .22lr rifles are exempt from the magazine capacity restrictions.

cyrus
05-22-2009, 2:05 PM
So what is a tube feed mag?

Jicko
05-22-2009, 2:08 PM
So what is a tube feed mag?

Shotgun like.

CHS
05-22-2009, 2:09 PM
So what is a tube feed mag?

It's a tube, instead of a box. Most lever-actions use tube mags as well as shotguns.

Dr Rockso
05-22-2009, 2:19 PM
So what is a tube feed mag?
Ammo goes in that tube below the barrel.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/marlin_model_60.jpg

cyrus
05-22-2009, 3:56 PM
I just want to say that this law is absolutely Retarded.

Shane916
05-22-2009, 5:18 PM
We sell Henry .22's that are tube fed and have something like a 15 round capacity. 100% legal due to the fact that it's a .22 tube fed rifle.

scrat
05-22-2009, 5:19 PM
its retarded but they had to exlude tube magazines as they are fixed to the gun. Same time i really doubt someone is going to extend their tube magazine to hold 100 rounds. You would have the longest and dumbest looking gun around. Same time because its tubular its not that quick to load like a detachable wher you can have several magazines ready to load.

CHS
05-22-2009, 5:26 PM
its retarded but they had to exlude tube magazines as they are fixed to the gun.

They didn't have to exclude them. Not at all.

They chose to because the pro-gun community was fragmented and lobbied for compromise.

FS00008
05-22-2009, 6:49 PM
I got it... a .22 Calico rifle is tube fed... in a way...

383green
05-22-2009, 7:32 PM
I got it... a .22 Calico rifle is tube fed... in a way...

Tubular magazines carry all of the rounds tip-to-base in a straight line. A helix is not a straight line, and a .22 Calico rifle is not tube fed under the common definition of a tubular magazine.

Quiet
05-22-2009, 7:41 PM
Also note that there is no caliber restriction on tublar magazines on lever-action rifles. :thumbsup:

383green
05-22-2009, 7:42 PM
I'm going to need a porter to help me carry my 30 round .30-30 lever-action rifle... :p

bigcalidave
05-22-2009, 8:04 PM
You still CANNOT import, manufacture, offer/expose to sell....
ie. if you have them before the ban, sure you can USE them....


Wrong! That's missing the point entirely.

I was thinking about this the other week, what if someone were to manufacture a tube magazine... of tubes? You could easily have the fF foregrip on an AR .22 clone contain maybe a dozen 10-15 round tubes, just need a cool action to rotate and feed from the tubes..

Hmmmm...

Scratch705
05-22-2009, 8:34 PM
are you thinking of something like this?

RCI Xrail
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/05/01/rci-xrail-roth-auto-index-loader/
a rotating ammo tube that increases the amount of shells a shotgun can carry.

Turo
05-22-2009, 8:44 PM
are you thinking of something like this?

RCI Xrail
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/05/01/rci-xrail-roth-auto-index-loader/
a rotating ammo tube that increases the amount of shells a shotgun can carry.

I'm thinking that would qualify as a drum magazine and thus disqualify the gun from the "tube fed" exemption.

bigcalidave
05-22-2009, 10:43 PM
are you thinking of something like this?

RCI Xrail
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/05/01/rci-xrail-roth-auto-index-loader/
a rotating ammo tube that increases the amount of shells a shotgun can carry.

MY OH MY !!! How I wish that was available for my 870 !!!

Yeah, something like that, but on a grander scale, with much much smaller tubes :)

fflstoreca
07-16-2010, 1:18 PM
If you look up tube feeding device you will find numerous pictures and info. on magazines that are just regular magazines. The reason is because the body of the magazine is known as a tube. This is due to function and not necessarily shape. Much like a tube of toothpaste which is not cylindrical but it acts the same way as a magazine concerning how it feeds it's contents to it's destination (pressure from inside tube is used to expel it's contents). There is much confusion about the CA .22 caliber exception but this is the only magazine that can be more than 10 rounds by CA law. A "tubular magazine" (not tube feeding device) generally refers to the fixed magazines that are cylindrical like in a shotgun or a lever action riffle. A "tube feeding device" refers to function whereas the commonly known "tubular magazine" is generally referred to by shape. I have been studying law for many years and doing research is key. There are stores out there that know this and will sell you the conversion kit magazines but unfortunately CA has made it so confusing that most stores (especially outside of CA) don't sell these magazines because they do not know or fully understand the law. Hope this helps.

bigcalidave
07-16-2010, 2:00 PM
Heck of an interesting first post, and a revival at that!!

Please don't try this at home, it'll be an expensive lesson if that is your plan of defense in court.

If you look up tube feeding device you will find numerous pictures and info. on magazines that are just regular magazines.
Where?? Actually you get a lot of gross medical pictures.


I was gonna break down the whole thing, but since this is a first post, I'll just chill. OP, Welcome to Calguns.

arc
07-16-2010, 2:39 PM
Topologically speaking can't a box be considered as a tube? It is simply of extremely limited resolution around the axis. :D

Yes, I know this is a silly argument and acting on it would get one in all sorts of trouble.

-James

the_quark
07-16-2010, 3:38 PM
Same time i really doubt someone is going to extend their tube magazine to hold 100 rounds. You would have the longest and dumbest looking gun around.

Dick Heller, call your office!

Decoligny
07-16-2010, 7:53 PM
Tubular magazines carry all of the rounds tip-to-base in a straight line. A helix is not a straight line, and a .22 Calico rifle is not tube fed under the common definition of a tubular magazine.

Not to mention that all Calico's are on the AW list.

fflstoreca
07-17-2010, 12:24 AM
As stated in my original post and in the law, a "tube feeding device", though some may perceive, is not necessarily the same as the commonly known "tubular magazine". If you can find anywhere in the law or in common text that says a tube feeding device not "tubular magazine" has a certain arrangement on how the rounds are stacked then I will retract my statements. Just like some people refer to clips as magazines (unfortunately commonly perceived as the same) when in fact they are different. If the law was to state .22 caliber tubular magazine then your point would be valid like stated in sub-section (C) which actually states "tubular magazine". If they were the same then sub-section (B) would be redundant and would not even need to be included. Look up magazine tube, not tubular magazine, and see what you find. What I'm talking about is not a loop hole.. sub-sections (B) and (C) are indeed written differently. The body of a magazine is commonly known as a tube whether it is a box magazine or a tubular one so when the law states "tube feeding device" it is open to both. This exception is only stated for a .22 caliber and nothing else. When laws are written, they have to be very specific or else people find loop holes and then those open spots always have to be considered, which if need be then amended, but in this case the law is not written with that intent because if it was they would have used the same terminology as in sub-section (C). The fact that a .22 cal is one of the weakest rounds in which some air guns are as powerful as and the fact that CA section 12020 (high capacity magazine section) is part of the "2008 Dangerous Weapons Control Law" they likely allowed this particular round because it is not considered a Dangerous Weapon. Think about it a .22 cal (like an air/ pellet gun) is primarily used for target practice. What do you hunt with a .22cal? Though the CA gun laws really only help criminals feel safer that no one else is carrying a gun (unlike AZ or NV), the believed intent was to ensure public and officer safety. If someone was to go crazy and go on a homicidal rage with a .22 caliber gun most likely the fatalities would be limited to a random bird or squirrel. Not to say a human couldn't be killed with a .22 it is just a lot less likely than a larger round.

Again here is the law for reference:

12020

# (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following: (A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds. (B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device. (C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm. (d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

bwiese
07-17-2010, 12:27 AM
Yes. What Turo said.

Tube-fed .22lr rifles are exempt from the magazine capacity restrictions.

Tube fed "22 caliber", without rimfire restriction, are exempt from mag capacity restriction.

NeuTag
07-18-2010, 1:20 AM
Tube fed "22 caliber", without rimfire restriction, are exempt from mag capacity restriction.

A rotating tube magazine can be constructed to carry as many rounds as there are tubes. It all comes back to ridiculousness...
Ammo weighs alot...In my first ar build, I looked for 20 round mags. They cost more than 30 round mags, so I bought 30 round and put 20 rounds into them. The 30 round mags didn't let me get properly prone. I was happy to get 10 round mags so I would not be handicapped in high powered shoots. Same went for my ak rifle. 30 rounds adds too much weight. I want the right to have the size of mag of my desire, but in reality, big mags don't cut it recreational shooting.

Beelzy
07-21-2010, 2:17 PM
Now, what about a 22 rimfire Belt-fed upper on a RAW?? Belt capacity issues??

Aleksandr Mravinsky
07-21-2010, 3:11 PM
Now, what about a 22 rimfire Belt-fed upper on a RAW?? Belt capacity issues??

I'm pretty sure belts are covered. That is, unless you had the belt before the ban.