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Pilot
05-21-2009, 1:52 PM
i can cycle the action of my newly accuired m91/30 just fine, however when i load it and shoot and want to open the bolt to eject the shell to load a new one, its very hard to open; that is, after the round has been fired. the range officer called a ceasefire and asked me to cycle out any remaining rounds, and it did so easily with the unfired cartridges. is it hard to open because its just a mosin nagant and thats how they are? because its old and i gotta break it in after its years in storage? because the cheap surplus ammo? because something is wrong? thanks in advance for your help.

Hopi
05-21-2009, 1:55 PM
You're probably being too gentle with her.

aermotor
05-21-2009, 1:58 PM
You do need to man handle her a bit, go through the whole thing and make sure it's lubed up good. It definitely requires more the break the bolt after a "fired" round.

What I do with mine is just remove the bolt if I still have rounds left in the mag at cease fire.

Pilot
05-21-2009, 1:59 PM
lol thank you both, i was about to edit my post and ask if i just needed to man up, it was my first time shooting one of these hardy WW2 rifles, didnt know how rough to be with it ;) but i guess its me and not the rifle, thanks.

aermotor
05-21-2009, 2:11 PM
To me it's all about technique, some of my friends who are bigger than me have a much harder time opening it than I do, if you know how to open it properly, it's a piece of cake.

I use my left hand with my palm pressed against the left side of the gun right in-line with the bolt, then with my index and middle fingers pull up in the bolt while pressing down on my palm creating the fulcrum for it. Not sure if that make sense.

If using my right hand (palm side up) I grab the bolt with my pinky and ring finger and sharply snap my wrist counter clock-wise breaking it lose.

Hope that helps some.

SeanCasey
05-21-2009, 2:13 PM
Instead of cycling it for each round still in the mag, I just drop the mag open and take the ammo and then open the bolt. Leaves no doubt for anyone when they can see right through it. Plus it is faster to clear the rifle.

On a side note, some Mosins seen a bit tougher than others. My 91/59 is smooth as butter and I can very easily open and close the bolt. I had some difficulty the first time I fired it but discovered that the issue was that the ammo that was in 7.62x54r boxes was NOT 7.62x54r ammo (case measures 61mm and the bullet looks a hair thinner and isn't as long). Only took 20 rounds of it (with one that wouldn't load at all) to go to the next box and have a good "WTF" moment.

Plisk
05-21-2009, 2:21 PM
Mosin Nagants were designed to be simple enough for any farmer to use. A simple Russian farmer wouldn't be as gentle with his rifle as we would. Like others have said, just manhandle her a little bit. She won't break.

rumble phish
05-21-2009, 2:21 PM
The Mosin is a battlefield rifle. It should not be that hard to cycle the next round. These are old rifles that were packed in cosmoline for years, even decades. Take your bolt completely apart and soak it in acetone or laquer thinner overnight. Then, take a small cleaning brush to it along with some compressed air and clean it out. When re-assembling it make sure to be liberal (God, I feel dirty even using that term in this context) with the oil. Also, use an emery cloth or fine sandpaper to smooth off any burrs on the bolt or the chamber or both. This made a HUGE difference in mine. After shooting several Nagants that were smooth as silk I realized that all the people telling me that the sticky bolt on the Mosin's are just "how they are" were completely wrong. A bolt should NEVER be that hard to cycle, especially on a rifle meant for the battlefield.

God Bless The Mauser
05-21-2009, 2:23 PM
Clean the chamber, if there is laquer build up it can cause the round to stick. My Mosins were like this when I first got them. Just get a worn out 12 gauge bore brush on a cleaning rod and chuck it into a drill and run it in the chamber for a minute or so. My Mosins now cycle very smooth.

Pilot
05-21-2009, 2:41 PM
i actually didnt get it covered in cosmoline, it was clean when i got it but i cleaned it myself before taking it out to the range just to be sure it was clean. it all looks clean, feels clean, and a cloth over any parts remains clean and not covered in gunk. kind of odd that i have to literally stand up to get a better grip on the bolt handle to open it..

aermotor
05-21-2009, 2:52 PM
Instead of cycling it for each round still in the mag, I just drop the mag open and take the ammo and then open the bolt. Leaves no doubt for anyone when they can see right through it. Plus it is faster to clear the rifle.

I don't know... it takes half a second to pull the bolt out and there's no possible way the gun can fire. Having to open the bottom up and take out the rounds seems annoying, to me at least.

Made a quick video of what I do.

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fusionstar
05-21-2009, 2:57 PM
just cosmoline in the bolt lug recesses and chamber.


1.) get a hair dryer
2.) get a dowel with cloth.
3.) heat up the chamber until its too hot to touch
4.) clean every part of the chamber and the bolt lug recesses.

if problems persist, repeat.

Crusader
05-21-2009, 3:00 PM
You need to practice this a bit. With a Mosin, leverage is the name of the game. You need to get a lot of force on the bolt in the beginning to get her moving, and then after that it's a cake walk.

The casings will swell ever so slightly after being fired, so that will be one cause for the difficulty.

The lacquer coating on some casings will melt a bit from the heat of the shot, and thus become like tree sap inside the chamber.

You may also still have a bit of dirty oil/cosmoline inside the chamber which, when heated up, will act like a thick glue on the casing as well.

Pilot
05-21-2009, 3:23 PM
thanks, ill give it some practice and another thorough cleaning, but im a little unfamiliar with gun parts. what is the bolt lug recesses?

aermotor
05-21-2009, 3:24 PM
Your new best friend: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinDisassembly.htm

Pilot
05-21-2009, 3:26 PM
Your new best friend: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinDisassembly.htm
my new best friend is right.

edit: but i dont see what the bolt lug recesses are..

aermotor
05-21-2009, 3:39 PM
Yea hmm, someone might be calling it something else.

ucla_jtsuei
05-21-2009, 3:42 PM
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/eliminatesbs/index.asp

/thread

kalguns
05-21-2009, 3:46 PM
The Mossin is a drity upity whore who needs to be knocked aroud.

Pilot
05-21-2009, 3:47 PM
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/eliminatesbs/index.asp

/thread

that helps too, thanks

Pilot
05-21-2009, 3:47 PM
The Mossin is a drity upity whore who needs to be knocked aroud.:rofl2:

socomIInato
05-21-2009, 4:16 PM
welcome too the crude but functional world of the mosin/nagant 91. not to overlook cheap shooting:jump:

Fate
05-21-2009, 4:23 PM
"Sticky bolt syndrome" is your googlefu answer.

Brake or carb cleaner and the chucked brass brush mentioned earlier in this thread is the answer.

Pilot
05-21-2009, 4:29 PM
yeah i looked into that but wouldnt sticky bolt syndrome have missed cosmolime in the chamber or on the bolt? both are very clean and it was hard to open.

Pilot
05-21-2009, 4:29 PM
welcome too the crude but functional world of the mosin/nagant 91. not to overlook cheap shooting:jump:
i hear u on that, great gun to shoot for very cheap, whats better than that? :)

zaitcev
05-21-2009, 6:23 PM
If the chamber is clean, I would check the headspace next, and look the fired brass for any unusual scratches from the extraction. Keep in mind that that 1903 Issue brass expands by a lot towards the throat, that's normal.

Hopefully you won't need a new barrell.

-- Pete

Pilot
05-21-2009, 6:33 PM
If the chamber is clean, I would check the headspace next, and look the fired brass for any unusual scratches from the extraction. Keep in mind that that 1903 Issue brass expands by a lot towards the throat, that's normal.

Hopefully you won't need a new barrell.

-- Pete
idk enough about guns to know what the headspace is >.< but i can look down the barrel and see the rifling looks to be in really good condition.

edit: does it mean anything to anyone that the first shot fired from the rifle cracked the casing?

Fate
05-21-2009, 8:12 PM
You won't be able to "see" the lacquer build up or thin cosmo in the chamber, but trust me, it's there. Rifle cycles fine as long as it hasn't superheated the brass during firing and essentially fused the casing to the chamber.

Some surplus ammo cracks at the neck after shooting. No big deal as long as it doesn't stretch down into the shoulder of the casing. If you're experiencing cracking at the base (down by the rim), that's a big danger sign.

Mosins almost NEVER have headspace issues.

Pilot
05-21-2009, 8:41 PM
You won't be able to "see" the lacquer build up or thin cosmo in the chamber, but trust me, it's there. Rifle cycles fine as long as it hasn't superheated the brass during firing and essentially fused the casing to the chamber.

Some surplus ammo cracks at the neck after shooting. No big deal as long as it doesn't stretch down into the shoulder of the casing. If you're experiencing cracking at the base (down by the rim), that's a big danger sign.

Mosins almost NEVER have headspace issues.

yep it was by the neck. well thanks everyone for ur advice and input, ill put it to use and hoepfully improve this rifle and make it better to shoot. :thumbsup:

taloft
05-21-2009, 8:52 PM
I would lay odds that it is Sticky bolt syndrome, based on your discription of what is happening. Old cosmoline is rock hard and not easily detected or removed from the chamber. When the rifle is fired the cosmo melts and mixes with the laquer from the cartridge forming a glue of sorts. Makes it a real pain to open. I now see that others have given you the solution. Just don't go crazy with the drill. This has worked fine for all of my Mosin Nagants. Let us know how it turns out.

Pilot
05-22-2009, 8:33 AM
I don't know... it takes half a second to pull the bolt out and there's no possible way the gun can fire. Having to open the bottom up and take out the rounds seems annoying, to me at least.

Made a quick video of what I do.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/anedU0I9bLg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/anedU0I9bLg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
thanks for the video btw

KRS Juan
05-22-2009, 11:54 AM
My Big 5 M44 gets stuck everytime I shoot painted brass, easy solution:
http://www.toolstation.com/images/library/stock/webbig/97901.jpg

Pilot
05-23-2009, 8:52 PM
this is a little off topic from what i originally needed but im pretty sure there is a tool you can buy to check the iron sites alignment to make sure everything is in check and to know if the sites are off, but idk what the darn thing is called. can someone tell me or link me to one thatll work for my mosin? :chris:

yetii
06-03-2009, 12:13 PM
The Mosin is a battlefield rifle. It should not be that hard to cycle the next round. These are old rifles that were packed in cosmoline for years, even decades. Take your bolt completely apart and soak it in acetone or laquer thinner overnight. Then, take a small cleaning brush to it along with some compressed air and clean it out. When re-assembling it make sure to be liberal (God, I feel dirty even using that term in this context) with the oil. Also, use an emery cloth or fine sandpaper to smooth off any burrs on the bolt or the chamber or both. This made a HUGE difference in mine. After shooting several Nagants that were smooth as silk I realized that all the people telling me that the sticky bolt on the Mosin's are just "how they are" were completely wrong. A bolt should NEVER be that hard to cycle, especially on a rifle meant for the battlefield.

what he said i did the exact same thing and its as smooth as any other bolt gun.

5hundo
06-03-2009, 1:21 PM
because the cheap surplus ammo? because something is wrong? thanks in advance for your help.

:yes:

I have terrible results with some surplus ammo. I've pretty much stopped using steel cases all together, because I get similar results to what you're having. If I shoot brass, I don't have these issues....

Other might flame me for my opinion but I really don't shoot my Nagants enough to want to buy cheap ammo. If a Nagant was my "only" rifle, it might be more advantageous for me to buy cheaper ammo but when I take my Nagants to the range, I don't want to struggle with the rifle all day. Brass cases give me a more-or-less "carefree" shooting experience, so I don't mind paying a few more bucks...

rumble phish
06-03-2009, 1:30 PM
:yes:

I have terrible results with some surplus ammo. I've pretty much stopped using steel cases all together, because I get similar results to what you're having. If I shoot brass, I don't have these issues....

Other might flame me for my opinion but I really don't shoot my Nagants enough to want to buy cheap ammo. If a Nagant was my "only" rifle, it might be more advantageous for me to buy cheaper ammo but when I take my Nagants to the range, I don't want to struggle with the rifle all day. Brass cases give me a more-or-less "carefree" shooting experience, so I don't mind paying a few more bucks...

Agreed.

BTW, Wolf Gold ammo is very good, non-corrosive and generally inexpensive. Besides, it's not like you're going to take that 440 round tin of surplus ammo to the range and blow through it all in one day. Well, most of us anyway...:laugh:

5hundo
06-03-2009, 3:06 PM
Besides, it's not like you're going to take that 440 round tin of surplus ammo to the range and blow through it all in one day.

I think that if you do, you'll wish that you hadn't have... :eek:

Even 50 rounds with a non-sporterized Mosin is enough to make a large man say "Ouch"...

Iffy
06-03-2009, 3:52 PM
just pick up some "copper washed" surplus 7.62x54r rounds and stay away from the ones that are coated/painted with lacquer. if you have a problem with cleaning the rifle (which is part of the fun of owning one in my opinion) keep to the new wolf rounds as mentioned. enjoy the old war horse, who knows what stories it could tell.

ucla_jtsuei
06-03-2009, 4:13 PM
just pick up some "copper washed" surplus 7.62x54r rounds and stay away from the ones that are coated/painted with lacquer. if you have a problem with cleaning the rifle (which is part of the fun of owning one in my opinion) keep to the new wolf rounds as mentioned. enjoy the old war horse, who knows what stories it could tell.

+1. the copper washed ammo rarely gives me trouble. It seems like the copper "wash" (which is a thin plating) does away the problems associated with lacquer or polymer coatings.

air soft rules!
06-03-2009, 5:03 PM
extra fine steel wool on the contact areas of the bolt and receiver, also strip the bolt and steel wool with light pressure all the contact areas on the bolt itself will result in, a bolt as smooth as a mauser on any mosin, I had a finnish m39 mosin with 1/4" @ 100 yds, I did the bolt, the recesses in the receiver, and a light polish on the trigger, everything was smooth an crisp, and two friends bought big 5 91/30 mosin nagants can attest to the upgrade in performance of the bolt and better trigger pull, I also relieved the woodstock from the receiver forward as much as possible to free float the barrel, I bedded the receiver into the stock with cardboard shims dipped in hoppe's solvent, a trick commonwealth shooters did in the u.k. to smle's and no.1 mk4rifles, as they had to be in service condition to qualify for a service match. Your mosin will feel better, perform better, and will improve its accuracy, just clean the bore and chamber from the corrosive ammo that is so wonderfully cheap, and your rifle will last a hundred years.

InvictusManeo
06-16-2009, 10:23 AM
My Big 5 M44 gets stuck everytime I shoot painted brass, easy solution:
http://www.toolstation.com/images/library/stock/webbig/97901.jpg

I've had my m44 for 2 years now as my most-fired weapon, and had to use that "technique" a couple weeks ago for the first time. It's possible that the OP's problem actually IS the ammo. I was using Czech surplus for the first time when I had this problem, and after cycling 15 spent rounds through it, my hand was purple for a week. With any ammo available at the range (wolf, brown/silver bear, etc) my thunderspear has always been butter.

As a side note, I hadn't taken a bore brush to my chamber in quite some time, so I did that when I got back from the range and haven't made it back out to see if that was actually my problem. But if it's actually a CHALLENGE to cycle, there is something wrong. If you just feel like you're treating her rough, you'll learn to love it. ;)

God Bless The Mauser
06-16-2009, 11:53 AM
I think that if you do, you'll wish that you hadn't have... :eek:

Even 50 rounds with a non-sporterized Mosin is enough to make a large man say "Ouch"...

I might be able to do that if it wasn't prone shooting. Maybe I'll try it when I go to the desert :D

Markbone
06-16-2009, 12:15 PM
...it's not like you're going to take that 440 round tin of surplus ammo to the range and blow through it all in one day. Well, most of us anyway...:laugh:

well, i did. LOL



I think that if you do, you'll wish that you hadn't have... :eek:

Even 50 rounds with a non-sporterized Mosin is enough to make a large man say "Ouch"...

man y'all are pansies then. 440 rounds and i was a bit sore, but that wouldnt make me stop. though i am a glutton for recoil lol

I've had my m44 for 2 years now as my most-fired weapon, and had to use that "technique" a couple weeks ago for the first time. It's possible that the OP's problem actually IS the ammo. I was using Czech surplus for the first time when I had this problem, and after cycling 15 spent rounds through it, my hand was purple for a week. With any ammo available at the range (wolf, brown/silver bear, etc) my thunderspear has always been butter.

As a side note, I hadn't taken a bore brush to my chamber in quite some time, so I did that when I got back from the range and haven't made it back out to see if that was actually my problem. But if it's actually a CHALLENGE to cycle, there is something wrong. If you just feel like you're treating her rough, you'll learn to love it. ;)

yup, that surplus ammo is great CHEAP stuff. my m44 and 91/30 love the corrosive, dirty, stinky dirt cheap surplus, but anytime i shoot it, the bolt will stick if i happen to fire too many rounds any given time. once the recevier heats up to that special point, the bolt will start sticking. i just usually find a good table and give her a WHAK! clean it and she's good to go for another 50+ rounds.

also, OP look into a bent bolt. most of them are a tad bit longer giving you that much more leverage when getting the bolt unstuck. it definitly helped on my beat-the-f-up M44. now i just need another one for my 91/30.

5hundo
06-16-2009, 2:39 PM
I might be able to do that if it wasn't prone shooting. Maybe I'll try it when I go to the desert :D




man y'all are pansies then. 440 rounds and i was a bit sore, but that wouldnt make me stop. though i am a glutton for recoil lol


Don't get me wrong, I love shooting my Nagants and the fact that they kick a little give me the opportunity to shoot more. The last time I went out with my M44, my friends fired 5 rounds total. I got the other 15...

...and I didn't have to even be discourteous about it!

"You wanna shoot the M44 again?"

"Nope! I'm done..."

:D

Backinblack1234
06-16-2009, 3:51 PM
I soaked my bolt in denatured alcohol for 1 day then I dried her with shop towels then ran MR. Heat Gun to get rid of any remaining liquid. (All was done outside) I lubed up all of the parts with CLP and put it back to together. I then checked head space and I was good to go. I have not had any problems and my 91/30 does heat up really fast so I giver her a 30 min break. For $89 special, it was well worth the money.

Markbone
06-16-2009, 3:59 PM
Don't get me wrong, I love shooting my Nagants and the fact that they kick a little give me the opportunity to shoot more. The last time I went out with my M44, my friends fired 5 rounds total. I got the other 15...

...and I didn't have to even be discourteous about it!

"You wanna shoot the M44 again?"

"Nope! I'm done..."

:D


hahah same thing happened with my friend.
he was done after 5 rds.

i asked him if he wanted to go shooting again bout 3 months later.
ive never heard the word NO said so many time lol.