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View Full Version : GLOCK 23 SERIOUS Malfunction / FAILURES!


WARDOG
05-21-2009, 11:02 AM
I recently received this nationwide LEO memo regarding GLOCK 23 Failures.
I have confirmed this is true.

Date: May 15, 2009 2:24:00 AM PDT
Subject: DEPT ISSUED GLOCK 23 FAILURE

Subject: DEPT ISSUED GLOCK 23 FAILURE

0130006000799930XXXX
MSG/LE .SENT BY TID 0079XXXX
MSG/NLETS DEDSP0000
06:15 05/13/2009 426XX
06:15 05/13/2009 124XX AZ
*00693013XX
TXT
(AP)
* POWERED BY NLETS *

REQUEST FOR NATIONAL BROADCAST
90 FILE 15 DE0031XXX 0513XXX

TO: ALL LE AGENCY ORDNANCE OFFICERS/ARMORERS

THIS AGENCY HAS EXPERIENCED TWO IDENTICAL FAILURES OF DEPARTMENT-ISSUE GLOCK

23 PISTOLS. THE FAILURES OCCURRED WHEN THE BARREL LUGS SHEARED-OFF, WHILE
THE WEAPONS WERE BEING FIRED DURING TRAINING EXERCISES. AMMUNITION USED BY
THIS AGENCY IS SPEER LAWMAN 155GR. TMJ FOR TRAINING/PRACTICE AND SPEER
GOLD-DOT 155GR. JHP OR DUTY CARRY. BOTH PISTOLS WERE PART OF A SERIES, WITH

SEVENTEEN SERIAL NUMBERS BETWEEN THEM. SOME OF THE INTERVENING-SERIALED
WEAPONS ARE CARRIED BY MEMBER OF THIS AGENCY AND CONFIDENCE IN THOSE PISTOLS

HAS SERIOUSLY ERODED. GLOCK REPLACED ONE OF THE FAILED WEAPONS AND
COMPLETELY REBUILT THE OTHER PISTOL USING NEW PARTS, RETAINING ONLY THE
FRAME AND SLIDE FROM THE ORIGINAL WEAPON. GLOCK DID
NOT ADDRESS THE CAUSE OF THE FAILURES, NOR PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE
ISSUE IS ISOLATED AND NOT SUBJECT TO RECURRENCE IN OUR OTHER WEAPONS. IN AN

EFFORT TO DETERMINE THE EXTENT OF THIS ISSUE AND TO REASSURE OUR OPERATORS
THAT THE WEAPONS ARE RELIABLE AND SAFE, WE ARE REQUESTING THAT AGENCIES
EXPERIENCING SIMILAR BARREL-LUG FAILURES REPORT THE INCIDENTS TO THIS
AGENCY.

CONTACT: D/SGT. MIKE XXXX
GEORGETOWN POLICE DEPARTMENT
335 N. RACE ST.
GEORGETOWN, DE 19947
OFFICE: 302-856-XXXX
FAX: 302-856-XXXX
EMAIL: MICHAEL.XXXX@CJ.STATE.DE.US
AUTH SPXXXX DE ANS 0914 EDT
PAGE 01?

BTF/PTM
05-21-2009, 11:05 AM
Sounds like a bad batch of barrels. Does Glock manufacture their own barrels, or are they outsourced to a specialist? That would be the place to look. I'd never trust a brand again if it failed that badly and it was depended upon to save my life. A jam is one thing, but a catastrophic failure is quite another.

HCz
05-21-2009, 11:11 AM
wow. What is going on here? LASD recently had similar barrel problem and now Glock. Maybe someone is making a bad batch.

Joe
05-21-2009, 11:13 AM
I want to see pics

supersonic
05-21-2009, 11:30 AM
Oh, man. If this is truly legit, it's not good. I haven't heard anything at this point. When & if I do, I will be the first to share my findings. However, I am going to go with 'innocent until pictures are viewed'. BTW, all Glock's barrels are made in their own factory in Austria. Again, if this is true, it would more than likely be a QC foul-up at the raw materials point. Stress fractures/metal fatigue often occur when the barrel steel has imperfections in it that are present from the get-go. There is absolutely zero excuse(s) as to how or why this got past Glock's inspection stage before the barrels were machined & forged. But, like I said, we don't know for sure what (if anything) has happened yet. Time for me to make some calls.

gumby
05-21-2009, 11:53 AM
I must be lucky, 20yrs and 5,000rds w/my duty(dept. owned) 23 and no problems.

walter
05-21-2009, 11:55 AM
iono it seems as though this huge gun backorder has glock cutting corners. i got a brand new 19c with two crappy mag follows (known to have problems in 19size frames) also my extractor came scratched. its like they dont care or too lazy they just working to fill orders

WARDOG
05-21-2009, 12:00 PM
The information I obtained through NLETS (National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System) is in text format ONLY. Each state has their own telecommunications systems, and programs. California's system is CLETS. Since each state is different, there is a crude T Comm system that allows all national agencies to communicate together.
It is not possible to send pictures through the NLETS system, hence the "Telecommunications" word.

I personally do not own a Glock, but I know a whole lot of fellow LEO's that depend their lives, and the lives of others, on that brand.
IF that NLETS message is fake, somebody is going to get fired and go to jail for it.

DMCA
05-21-2009, 1:38 PM
IF that NLETS message is fake, somebody is going to get fired and go to jail for it.

"BOTH PISTOLS WERE PART OF A SERIES, WITH SEVENTEEN SERIAL NUMBERS BETWEEN THEM. SOME OF THE INTERVENING-SERIALED WEAPONS ARE CARRIED BY MEMBER OF THIS AGENCY AND CONFIDENCE IN THOSE PISTOLS HAS SERIOUSLY ERODED. GLOCK REPLACED ONE OF THE FAILED WEAPONS AND COMPLETELY REBUILT THE OTHER PISTOL USING NEW PARTS, RETAINING ONLY THE FRAME AND SLIDE FROM THE ORIGINAL WEAPON. GLOCK DID NOT ADDRESS THE CAUSE OF THE FAILURES, NOR PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE ISSUE IS ISOLATED AND NOT SUBJECT TO RECURRENCE IN OUR OTHER WEAPONS."

Let me say that I have no interest in providing a defense of, or for Glock. Given the nature of Glock's relationship with LEO's and some of the information contained in the above "report", it makes me wonder about it's authenticity. While I'm inclined to believe that Glock treats all LEO's with urgency, this is a significant department and I doubt it would have received the sort of feedback the writer reveals in the above post. What is occurring, if it is, is a catastrophic life threatening failure.

At a minimum, the "alert" is alarming without providing full detail. Even so, it will probably become "viral" on the internet and no doubt, serve the purposes of Glock's competition.

ironcross
05-21-2009, 1:45 PM
:popcorn:

Ron-Solo
05-21-2009, 1:45 PM
wow. What is going on here? LASD recently had similar barrel problem and now Glock. Maybe someone is making a bad batch.

LASD was with the Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm. One pistol had a barrel break but the cause is still undertermined. They had several that failed to eject spent casings.

We can't carry Glocks :(

B Strong
05-21-2009, 3:31 PM
Thanks for the heads up, and thank you for your service Wardog.

I've got aftermarket barrels in all my major caliber Glocks, so I'm gtg.

rdhays2000
05-21-2009, 3:40 PM
I have a Glock 23 myself. So looks like I am going to have to keep an eye for this problem.

Voo
05-21-2009, 8:00 PM
If you dont want your G23's.. Lemme know.. :P

copenhagen269
05-21-2009, 8:51 PM
I have easily put over 4,000 rounds through my glock 23 and I have had zero issues.

low94noma
05-21-2009, 9:34 PM
If this is indeed a barrel issue, I still want to purchase my Glock 23 in a month and maybe put an aftermarket Storm Lake on it. I am interested on any developments on this issue. So far, it has not persuaded me to purchase another handgun other than the Glock 23. If this is a major issue, I hope it gets taken care of seeing as how a lot of LEO's depend on their firearms for protection. The last thing they need to think about before shift is whether or not their firearm will work when needed.

DDRH
05-21-2009, 9:37 PM
any possibility it may be ammo related?

BunnySlayer
05-21-2009, 10:05 PM
This is not the first I have heard of these problems. I was recently slammed hard on EOTAC's forum for admitting my ignorance of recent problems with Glocks. The 22 and 23 seem most prone to problems which include the barrel problems mentioned here, malfunctions of magazines and even slam fires upon chambering. Glock is taking heavy citicism for it's refusal to recall any pistols or admit any problems. The factory reps seem inclined to blame ammo or user error. Google EOTAC's gun forum and read what they have to say. Just don't say this is the first you've heard of it as I did or they'll call you names.

Spyder
05-21-2009, 10:22 PM
Great. Just qual'd with my 27 and 22 qual's are coming up soon. Never liked 'em much before...this doesn't help. . My Sig sure would be nice! =]

chickenfried
05-21-2009, 10:31 PM
I think they were limp wristing

BayAreaTactical
05-22-2009, 12:16 AM
hopefully now people will realize that glocks were made for 9mm

SanSacto
05-22-2009, 12:27 AM
I am starting to think my first handgun purchase was not a bad one now. S&W Sigma > Glock for me. I know I stepped on a lot of toes with that one.

[EDIT: Before I take any crud for saying I like my Sigma more than a Glock, it was significantly cheaper and still has proven durability. I don't regard it as a bad impulse buy.]

Josh
05-22-2009, 2:25 AM
Let me say that I have no interest in providing a defense of, or for Glock. Given the nature of Glock's relationship with LEO's and some of the information contained in the above "report", it makes me wonder about it's authenticity. While I'm inclined to believe that Glock treats all LEO's with urgency, this is a significant department and I doubt it would have received the sort of feedback the writer reveals in the above post. What is occurring, if it is, is a catastrophic life threatening failure.

At a minimum, the "alert" is alarming without providing full detail. Even so, it will probably become "viral" on the internet and no doubt, serve the purposes of Glock's competition.

This is SOP for glock, they are VERY slow to admit fault IF they do and will go so far as to JUST fall short of covering it up. They will issue "updates" instead of recalls.

They did the same with LAPD and their G21 issues.

Greg-Dawg
05-22-2009, 7:41 AM
My G23 has been flawless since the day I've bought it.

After 7K rounds of .40S&W, it's still running strong.

DMCA
05-22-2009, 7:45 AM
Great. Just qual'd with my 27 and 22 qual's are coming up soon. Never liked 'em much before...this doesn't help. . My Sig sure would be nice! =]

I owned Sigs for 20 years before I ever purchased a Glock. I'm very fond of Sigs, but there is more than a little lamenting amongst Sig owners about the quality of present day guns.

The number of G22's and G27"s with huge numbers of rounds through them is staggering. Given their presence in the marketplace, certain levels of failure are to be expected.

DMCA
05-22-2009, 7:46 AM
My G23 has been flawless since the day I've bought it.

After 7K rounds of .40S&W, it's still running strong.

This might well be a far higher round count than a lot of LEO's.

JTROKS
05-22-2009, 8:31 AM
Thanks for the heads up as I have a G23, but currently converted to shoot 9mm. Probably a bad batch of barrels or bad fitting with that batch. I've seen other brands of pistols with lower lugs shearing off so I will not condemn Glock. I do hope the agency carrying those batch of Glocks are carrying back-up pistols just in case. This was mentioned to me a while back by another shooter who had it happened to his Glock, but I'm not sure if it was a in 40 or 45. The lower lugs sheared off and the barrel was replaced by Glock, but after a few rounds he noticed the lower lugs are getting peened. It was a case of the lower lug hitting something and trimming some of the metal from the lower lug was the fix. So far he has a few thousand rounds through the gun without the peening or any problem. I may have to look at my Glocks a bit more closer for this problem, but I really don't shoot them that much.

Glock619
05-22-2009, 8:40 AM
I'm paranoid now, just got my 23 less than a month ago. Should I worry?
I'm also not familiar with the terminology being used about shearing. Could someone explain?

Soesy for sounding so noob. Just my first gun ever.

DDRH
05-22-2009, 8:43 AM
I've heard something similar with the MP9mm

DMCA
05-22-2009, 9:11 AM
This is SOP for glock, they are VERY slow to admit fault IF they do and will go so far as to JUST fall short of covering it up. They will issue "updates" instead of recalls.

They did the same with LAPD and their G21 issues.

As mentioned, I'm not looking to defend Glock but it would be in everybody's interest to know the entire story. Unfortunately, the LEO report cites an occurrance and an opinion.

When there was an incident with the LASD recently and their S&W M&P's, it didn't cause me to alter my opinion of the gun.

But until there is a complete reporting of the incident, it's only fair to Glock and everyone else to put more stock in the vast number of problem free pistols out in the market.

tyrist
05-22-2009, 9:27 AM
No issues with mine and the only emails about glock problems I have received were for the g21 and g22 firing pin issues.

Toolbox X
05-22-2009, 10:13 AM
When you sell MILLIONS of anything, you are bound to have a couple of failures. As far as I'm concerned this story only proves how reliable Glock handguns are. Show me another make and model of handgun that has a lower failure rate than Glock and I'll be surprised.

WARDOG
05-22-2009, 10:44 AM
It's True that GLOCK has sold so many handguns over the years. If you look at any semi-auto firearm, rifle or pistol it is a mechanical machine. This reported malfunction may only represent just 1/10th of .1% that have malfunctioned BUT.....
When an LEo is carrying a G23 in his duty holster, and he knows this was a recent problem, it gets in your head, on duty whether the gun will fail in your first, and maybe last ,officer involved shooting that could be just minutes away.
I carried a 1990 model SIG Sauer P220, brushed nickel with K-Kote for 2 decades on duty with never a jam that was not mag or ammo related (Cheap traiing mags and ammo at the beginning). I had a consecutive serial numbered SWAT pistol that had ten times the rounds through it. The SWAT version failed once due to a broken trigger return spring after about 8 000 rounds. SO parts break. I learned preventive maintenance gives you confidence on the street, that your weapon is going to save your life when you pull the trigger. A $70 spring replacement/ update kit every 2 years is worth the piece of mind.
Additionally, any LEO that gambles his life on just ONE weapon on duty is a FOOL! ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, carry a back-up. My son is now a Charlotte - Mecklinburg N.C. Officer and he got a back-up revolver for graduation from dear old Dad that just might know what he is talking about.
Regarding the Agency that is reporting the problems and asking if other agencies had similar problems, they are not going to bash GLOCK, piss GLOCK off, and willy-nilly just dump tens of thousands of $'s in GLOCK pistols.
They are going to do it professionally and diplomatically all the while not giving up until they get an answer from GLOCK as to why the barrel lugs sheared off.
This bulletin looked important so I figured I would merely post it for GLOCK owners at CALGuns.

DMCA
05-22-2009, 11:18 AM
It's True that GLOCK has sold so many handguns over the years. If you look at any semi-auto firearm, rifle or pistol it is a mechanical machine. This reported malfunction may only represent just 1/10th of .1% that have malfunctioned BUT.....
When an LEo is carrying a G23 in his duty holster, and he knows this was a recent problem, it gets in your head, on duty whether the gun will fail in your first, and maybe last ,officer involved shooting that could be just minutes away.
I carried a 1990 model SIG Sauer P220, brushed nickel with K-Kote for 2 decades on duty with never a jam that was not mag or ammo related (Cheap traiing mags and ammo at the beginning). I had a consecutive serial numbered SWAT pistol that had ten times the rounds through it. The SWAT version failed once due to a broken trigger return spring after about 8 000 rounds. SO parts break. I learned preventive maintenance gives you confidence on the street, that your weapon is going to save your life when you pull the trigger. A $70 spring replacement/ update kit every 2 years is worth the piece of mind.
Additionally, any LEO that gambles his life on just ONE weapon on duty is a FOOL! ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, carry a back-up. My son is now a Charlotte - Mecklinburg N.C. Officer and he got a back-up revolver for graduation from dear old Dad that just might know what he is talking about.
Regarding the Agency that is reporting the problems and asking if other agencies had similar problems, they are not going to bash GLOCK, piss GLOCK off, and willy-nilly just dump tens of thousands of $'s in GLOCK pistols.
They are going to do it professionally and diplomatically all the while not giving up until they get an answer from GLOCK as to why the barrel lugs sheared off.
This bulletin looked important so I figured I would merely post it for GLOCK owners at CALGuns.

Excuse me if I conveyed any impression of flaming you for the information posted. I share your opinion about LEO's and the function of their duty weapons.

But as you say, if I'm an LEO carrying the particular Glock and see the report, it would get into my head too. It's difficult to be objective about their vast success rate when your life depends on the potentially flawed one in your belt.

When the LASD experience with the M&P came out, I felt the same way though. What would help is if we also found out how these things were ultimately adjudicated. My personal experience with Glock CS makes it hard for me to believe they would straight arm a complaint. As Paul Harvey used to say, it would be good to hear the rest of the story (if there is one at this point).

Josh
05-22-2009, 10:03 PM
As mentioned, I'm not looking to defend Glock but it would be in everybody's interest to know the entire story. Unfortunately, the LEO report cites an occurrance and an opinion.

When there was an incident with the LASD recently and their S&W M&P's, it didn't cause me to alter my opinion of the gun.

But until there is a complete reporting of the incident, it's only fair to Glock and everyone else to put more stock in the vast number of problem free pistols out in the market.

Then you will be waiting a long time unless someone gets seriously injured or a third party is called in to investigate by a LE agency.

While glock does make a good product and has excellent support they will not admit to flaws. It is the mindset of the company.

I am not admitting to this being a widespread issue, but it can be an issue none the less. And it only takes one failure of the firearm at the wrong moment. I simply am just not happy with the way glock deals with these events trying to cover up and hide mistakes they made. This just makes it so that others will not know that they may need an updated part or to beware of issues on a gun they may invest their life in.

This isnt a watch being defective and you run late, or an MP3 player not being able to sync music, its a firearm that people trust their life's to.

Now this may be a false report, but from what ive seen of how glock deals with these types of events it is inline with their company model.

Most people do not shoot enough to see these problems develop in any firearm. Maybe a couple hundred rounds a month at most for 90% of the people out there. But when you see a hundred people a day shooting the same model of handgun you get a much larger sample size and can see the trends.

I guess this long rant was just to say dont blindly trust a company based on their marketing. When peoples lifes directly depend on a product your standards should be higher, and even one failure should be scrutinized to make sure it is not just an isolated incident. Everyone puts out bad batches, some just wont let you know you might have one.

matrix056
05-23-2009, 3:36 AM
Leave the "tupperware" in the kitchen.......Never been a fan of Glocks