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dfletcher
05-20-2009, 8:37 PM
Sorry, I don't know how to do the poll posting, was going to post a light hearted thread.

Which US President originally signed the bill which required guns in national parks be either stored away or disabled?

Choices are:

1) Lyndon Johnson
2) Ronald Reagan
3) Bush 41
4) Bill Clinton

Vtec44
05-20-2009, 8:39 PM
Reagan, 25 years ago.

kermit315
05-20-2009, 8:41 PM
yep, reagan

dfletcher
05-20-2009, 8:42 PM
Reagan, 25 years ago.

Fess up - you have Yahoo as your web browser. :cool:

I was surprised to learn that he did. Interesting that a President we don't associate with restricting guns signed that bill and one we definitely associate with gun control will undo it.

Vtec44
05-20-2009, 8:43 PM
If I remember it correctly, he also passed the machine gun ban in the 80's.

Edit: McClure-Volkmer Act in 1986.

Steyr_223
05-20-2009, 8:44 PM
Fess up - you have Yahoo as your web browser. :cool:

I was surprised to learn that he did. Interesting that a President we don't associate with restricting guns signed that bill and one we definitely associate with gun control will undo it.

Yep, Reagan signed the bill banning it..Obama will sign the bill to overturn it..What a weird world..

Darklyte27
05-20-2009, 8:44 PM
I used yahoo since early 90s
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090520/sc_mcclatchy/3237180

Vtec44
05-20-2009, 8:46 PM
Funny that Yahoo uses "pack heat" in the heading. :D

DDT
05-20-2009, 8:46 PM
I used yahoo since early 90s
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090520/sc_mcclatchy/3237180

Don't recall when I first started using Yahoo! I do remember that the URL was yahoo.stanford.edu though.

Vtec44
05-20-2009, 8:47 PM
Fess up - you have Yahoo as your web browser. :cool:

I actually read about it somewhere earlier in the evening :D The news is now everywhere.

Steyr_223
05-20-2009, 8:47 PM
Also people forget Reagan asked for and signed the Mulford Act in 1967, 'prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle in any public place or on any public street,' in Cali.

He also voiced support for the Brady Bill and an 'assault' weapons ban in the 90's.

TheBundo
05-20-2009, 8:49 PM
This is so funny. "I'm as happy as a little girl" :)

bubbapug1
05-20-2009, 8:52 PM
Yes, for all the salutes to reagan as such a great prez, and he was in some areas such as increasing our national pride and beginning the massive wave of materialism and living beyond our means...he was actually worse than Clinton on gun control...

I am sure this post will start a brushfire...but the truth is there for those who want to believe it....

Steyr_223
05-20-2009, 8:56 PM
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/NewsArchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=SHOWTOP

KeepAndBearArms.com -- The politician who is the subject of KABA's most recent poll was former President Ronald Reagan, now in death enjoying near-universal acclaim from gun owners as the best president in our lifetime.

In the midst of all the “conservative” sentimentality being expressed, we mustn’t ignore some uncomfortable facts that anyone who considers himself a Constitutionalist needs to reconcile—especially since the nearly 80% of you who voted based solely on his actions deemed them “traitorous,” and the vast majority of the balance deemed them “misguided.”

Now that you know who we were talking about, how many of you want to take back your vote? Why? Did the nature of his actions suddenly change? Are “gun control” laws tyrannical? Does it matter who it is who imposes them?

The edicts President Reagan endorsed and enacted could very well have resulted in your death—or the deaths of people you love—or the destruction of your life if found in defiance of them, if caught claiming the birthrights supposedly guaranteed by the Constitution he swore an oath to defend.

It’s not like he didn’t know better. “Ronald Reagan: The Gun Owner's Champion,” reveals a man fully aware of the true intent behind the Second Amendment, as well as its applicability in modern times. As a young man, he actually used a gun to rescue a nursing student. He even “began packing a .32 Smith and Wesson pistol, holstering the gun on every morning for months and wearing it until he stepped into bed at night,” in response to a threat. Yet in spite of this, he still imposed “gun control” on America.

The KABA poll presented six “gun control” examples. Here are our sources:

Items 1, 2 and 4:

“Reagan last week declared his support for a bill requiring a seven-day waiting period for handgun purchases. He did so at a George Washington University ceremony marking the 10th anniversary of the shooting that almost killed him and permanently disabled his press secretary, James S. Brady.

“It is called the Brady Bill, and Reagan said Congress should enact it without delay. ‘It's just plain common sense that there be a waiting period to allow local law enforcement officials to conduct background checks on those who wish to buy a handgun,’ the former president said.’”

Item 3 and 5:

“It was Governor Ronald Reagan of California who signed the Mulford Act in 1967, ‘prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street.’ The law was aimed at stopping the Black Panthers, but affected all gun owners.

“Twenty-four years later, Reagan was still pushing gun control. ‘I support the Brady Bill,’ he said in a March 28, 1991 speech, ‘and I urge the Congress to enact it without further delay.’"

Item 6:

“All those magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds will be legal to manufacture again. It will once again be legal to import the group of shotguns administratively banned by Ronald Reagan and the group of semi-automatic rifles similarly banned by the first President Bush. (Both of these executive bans were codified in the 1994 law.)”

Since the KABA poll was released, additional information has resurfaced concerning President Reagan’s support for the 1994 “assault weapon” ban: “Kenneth J. Cooper & Ann Devroy, Backers of Assault Weapons Ban Make Final Push for Undecided Votes, WASH. POST, May 5, 1994, at A5. Former Presidents Gerald R. Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan announced their support of the ban in a letter.”

Finally, know that gun owners are not alone in mourning the passing of President Reagan. A touching memorial tribute can be found here, written by people who professed to love him and call him “friend."

With this clear evidence of Mr. Reagan supporting the Brady Bill, a ban on shotguns and semiautos, and a ban on carrying firearms in public, it seems fair to ask:

Why is NRA republishing their 1983 resolution (issued, incidentally, 16 years after he signed the Mulford Act) where they proclaimed “President Reagan has forcefully stood by his convictions in support of the second amendment right of citizens to keep and bear arms for any legitimate purpose, including self-defense; and…vigorously rejects the myth that gun control is crime control…”?

And why is the Second Amendment Foundation telling its supporters, “President Reagan knew the value of gun ownership?”

Finally, some apologists are maintaining Reagan’s support for the Brady Bill was the result of his being manipulated in his senility by opportunistic anti-gunners and/or reporters. Some people will do anything to maintain their illusions—or to convince others that the illusions are true. The fact is, Reagan announced his support for the Brady Bill in 1991 and wasn’t diagnosed with Alzheimer’s until three-and-a-half years later—in late 1994. But this is a false argument anyway, as his support for the Mulford Act, which ended the open bearing of loaded arms in public places throughout California, took place a full 27 years earlier. The purpose of the poll and this article are not to denigrate the memory of a man literally revered by millions throughout America and the world. It is merely to establish the undeniable historical record that—in spite of the special place he evidently held in the hearts of gun owners—the man’s actions, as they related to the Second Amendment, did not merit it.

It was not our intention to offend anyone. We realize the options presented in our poll were strongly worded—and that was intentional: only by having gun owners characterize the actions of an anonymous subject could their true assessment be determined.

Others have suggested that now is not the time for this information to come to light. But the deception about Mr. Reagan’s Second Amendment legacy is being perpetuated now—and through outlets that reach millions. Besides, for anyone who is against these facts being presented, there will never be a “right time.” And since when is there a “wrong time” for the reality?

The strongest weapon we have in the fight to reclaim the free exercise of our right to keep and bear arms is the truth. When confronted with painful truth, we have two choices: accept it, or deny it and resent the messenger.

Our struggle is far too serious for us to cede painful fact to comfortable illusion. If denial and emotion-based belief systems prevail, we will not.

TheBundo
05-20-2009, 9:54 PM
But Reagan was very pro-axe

bluestaterebel
05-20-2009, 10:16 PM
Yep, Reagan signed the bill banning it..Obama will sign the bill to overturn it..What a weird world..

Weird world it is.....And thanks to several calguns members, Obama is now an NRA member..I wonder if he received his NRA stickers and Rifleman magazine at 1600 Pennsylvania

AaronHorrocks
05-21-2009, 7:07 AM
The fact is, Reagan announced his support for the Brady Bill in 1991 and wasn’t diagnosed with Alzheimer’s until three-and-a-half years later—in late 1994.

The fact of WHEN a person is diagnosed with a certain illness is irrelevant to when that illness first started affecting them.

DDT
05-21-2009, 8:00 AM
I am sure this post will start a brushfire...but the truth is there for those who want to believe it....

I can't imagine why it would start a brushfire. The historical record is pretty clear.

dfletcher
05-21-2009, 10:37 AM
I do recall he was asked just after being shot and said he was not in favor of stricter gun control. Unlike the repeated but less well publicized instances of him supporting gun control, I suppose that is the event best remembered and what many people use to attribute him as being not antigun.

tango-52
05-21-2009, 11:30 AM
This is from Coburns web site:

http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=RightNow.Home

Gun Bans On Federal Property Were Enacted By Unelected Bureaucrats Without The Authority Of Congress

In 1936 the National Park Service (NPS) established regulations banning firearms in national parks. These regulations were updated in 1983 to allow for guns to be transported through national parks if they were unloaded and stored in the trunk of cars.[9]

In 1976 the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) established similar regulations for federal refuges. These regulations were last updated in 1981.[10]

So what Reagan signed in 1983 actually loosened the restrictions on firearms from a total ban to being unloaded and stored.

leadchucker
05-21-2009, 11:06 PM
Thanks, Tango. I thought that's how it went, but wasn't sure.

CalNRA
05-22-2009, 12:41 AM
what do you think of that, Steyr_223? Is it common practice to get gun law info from Yahoo news?

Yep, Reagan signed the bill banning it..Obama will sign the bill to overturn it..What a weird world..

This is from Coburns web site:

http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=RightNow.Home

Gun Bans On Federal Property Were Enacted By Unelected Bureaucrats Without The Authority Of Congress

In 1936 the National Park Service (NPS) established regulations banning firearms in national parks. These regulations were updated in 1983 to allow for guns to be transported through national parks if they were unloaded and stored in the trunk of cars.[9]

In 1976 the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) established similar regulations for federal refuges. These regulations were last updated in 1981.[10]

So what Reagan signed in 1983 actually loosened the restrictions on firearms from a total ban to being unloaded and stored.
http://www.peer.org/docs/nps/08_12_2_brief_history_nps_firearm_regs.pdf
4. Firearms Regulations of 1936
On June 18, 1936, Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes promulgated the first set of
general NPS regulations ever adopted under the Organic Act of 1916 (16 U.S.C. 3). The
first NPS regulations say this about firearms:
8. Firearms, etc. - Firearms…are prohibited within the parks and
monuments, except upon written permission of the superintendent or
custodian. Visitors entering or traveling through the parks and
monuments to places beyond shall, at entrance, report, and, if required to
do so, surrender all such objects in their possession to the first park or
monument officer, and, in proper cases, may obtain his written permission
to carry them through the park or monument sealed. Failure to obtain
such written permission shall be deemed a violation of this regulation.
(Emphasis added)
The 1936 regulations permitted possession of a firearm in a park upon the issuance of a
NPS permit, and then only if the firearm were “sealed.”

for 1983 revision:

1. The Current NPS Regulation on Firearms
The National Park Service (NPS) promulgated the current regulation on weapons on June
30, 1983 as part of a thorough revision of NPS rules (48 Federal Register (FR) 30252-
30296). The current regulation is found at 36 CFR 2.4. The current regulation defines
“weapons” to include “firearms.” 36 CFR 1.4.
In general, the current regulation prohibits the possession of weapons in parks but
provides several significant exceptions. One of the most significant exceptions allows
the possession of weapons in vehicles or in temporary lodging if the weapon is
temporarily inoperable or is packed, cased or stored. Thus the current NPS rule does not
impose a general ban on the possession of weapons or firearms.
The current regulations is:
(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section…the following are
prohibited:
(i) possession of a weapon, trap or net
(2) Weapons, traps or nets may be carried…:
(i) At designated times and locations in park areas where:
(A) The taking of wildlife is authorized by law…
(ii) When used for target practice…pursuant to special regulations.
….
(iii) Within a residential dwelling.
(3) Traps, nets and unloaded weapons may be possessed within a
temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such
implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed,
cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use.
The NPS stated in the proposed rulemaking of March 17, 1982 that “[T]he proposed
regulations have been designed to ensure public safety and provide maximum protection
of natural resources by limiting the opportunity for unauthorized use of weapons…”
47 FR 11602
The NPS explains the broad exceptions in the proposed rule by saying “…[T]he proposed
regulations (at 2.4) recognize that the travelling public often possesses property that is
unrelated to their visit to a party (sic) area. Accordingly the regulations provide that
properly stored, unloaded weapons may be possessed within or upon a mode of
transportation, or within a temporary lodging such as a motel room or tent.” 47 FR
11602
In the Final rulemaking of June 30, 1983, the NPS responded to several commenters who
requested “…that this section (2.4) be revised to prohibit the carrying of weapons or guns
in park areas where hunting is not permitted.” The NPS rejected the requests, stating
“[T]he Service has determined that it is not feasible to prohibit the possession of weapons
in all situations, and a total prohibition would be unenforceable. The regulation,
therefore, allows the possession of unloaded weapons within residential dwellings and
temporary lodgings, such as a motel

CalNRA
05-22-2009, 12:32 PM
:popcorn:

Do any Reagan bashers want to discuss the whole "He banned guns in national parks" thing?

Bueller?

CalNRA
05-22-2009, 12:40 PM
If I remember it correctly, he also passed the machine gun ban in the 80's.

Edit: McClure-Volkmer Act in 1986.

do you remember why you can drive through unfriendly states like Illinois or Massachussetes with an unloaded gun without getting arrested?:rolleyes:

At least acknowledge the upside of the bill that had huge benefits for gun owners everywhere.

MrClamperSir
05-23-2009, 9:16 AM
This is very interesting to me. I have always admired Reagan and love listening to his speeches and reading his thoughts about our great country. I had no idea who signed the Mulford act, however, it is one of my personal biggest pet peeves.

CalNRA
05-23-2009, 1:54 PM
This is very interesting to me. I have always admired Reagan and love listening to his speeches and reading his thoughts about our great country. I had no idea who signed the Mulford act, however, it is one of my personal biggest pet peeves.

be sure to thank the Black Panthers and the CA Legislature, Reagan didn't do it alone.

Pvt. Cowboy
05-23-2009, 2:00 PM
Also people forget Reagan asked for and signed the Mulford Act in 1967, 'prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle in any public place or on any public street,' in Cali.

He also voiced support for the Brady Bill and an 'assault' weapons ban in the 90's.

Of course, the first had quite a bit to do with Black Panthers taking over the state capitol by force of arms.

The second one was because he got shot with Jim Brady by a lunatic.

MrClamperSir
05-23-2009, 9:41 PM
be sure to thank the Black Panthers and the CA Legislature, Reagan didn't do it alone.

Fully understand that, but my hatred for the Mulford act runs pretty deep. To know that one of the men I look up to and gather inspiration from regarding politics was involved is a tough pill to swallow.

CalNRA
07-09-2009, 6:35 AM
bump. Steyr_223, care to explain your statement after all?