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Hemp
05-20-2009, 8:33 PM
I declined a gun sale due to legal concerns would like your guys opinion.

Last weekend I accompanied my buddy to a private residence to P.U/buy some surplus ammo. The seller was a nice enough guy who later asked me if I was in the market for anything. I told him the only gun I'm looking out for was an SKS or Ruger 30 carbine. He presented a nice Norinco SKS that looked brand new, stock and blueing was flawless. He wanted $250 which I quickly agreed to and asked when he was available to meet at a dealer. He replied "naw don't worry about it you can just pay me now and take it home" I looked at my friend who had the same confused look I did.

He was not a liscenced FFL, the gun is not a C&R so I declined. I explained my reasons for changing my mind and he just shrugged. He didn't agree or disagree with my legals concerns which tells me my instincts were right.

Was I correct to decline? Don't Semi-auto carbines need to be treated like hand guns when it comes to FFL transfer, DROS etc?

I don't plan on having the cops search my house anytime soon but I don't want to loose $250 or get charged just because I ignored some legal technicality.

Input appreciated.

Hemp

badicedog
05-20-2009, 8:35 PM
I think you have answered your own question my friend.:cool:

HowardW56
05-20-2009, 8:36 PM
I declined a gun sale due to legal concerns would like your guys opinion.

Last weekend I accompanied my buddy to a private residence to P.U/buy some surplus ammo. The seller was a nice enough guy who later asked me if I was in the market for anything. I told him the only gun I'm looking out for was an SKS or Ruger 30 carbine. He presented a nice Norinco SKS that looked brand new, stock and blueing was flawless. He wanted $250 which I quickly agreed to and asked when he was available to meet at a dealer. He replied "naw don't worry about it you can just pay me now and take it home" I looked at my friend who had the same confused look I did.

He was not a liscenced FFL, the gun is not a C&R so I declined. I explained my reasons for changing my mind and he just shrugged. He didn't agree or disagree with my legals concerns which tells me my instincts were right.

Was I correct to decline? Don't Semi-auto carbines need to be treated like hand guns when it comes to FFL transfer, DROS etc?

I don't plan on having the cops search my house anytime soon but I don't want to loose $250 or get charged just because I ignored some legal technicality.

Input appreciated.

Hemp

As tempting as it would be, it is my opion that you made the correct decision. I would have done the same thing, and I have in the past!

FS00008
05-20-2009, 8:37 PM
Because it's newer than 50 years of age you were correct in declining to buy it.

50 years or younger must go through a dealer. 50 years or older can be face to face as it is in the free world.

SCMA-1
05-20-2009, 8:40 PM
I'm sure it must have been tempting but you did the right thing.:thumbsup: Since 1991, all firearms sales must be done through an FFL (with the exception of long gun C&R's of 50 plus years old).

SCMA-1

Table Rock Arms
05-20-2009, 8:42 PM
You don't even know the guy, and your wondering if you made the right call because you didn't commit a felony in front of him? You made the right call for sure.

bigcalidave
05-20-2009, 9:34 PM
Nevermind :P

DDT
05-20-2009, 9:36 PM
Could very easily have become an accidental felon. It is unfortunate that in this state one must first read legal texts (or summaries thereof) before buying a gun.

bigcalidave
05-20-2009, 9:41 PM
Still should have convinced him to PPT it to you properly!

gcvt
05-20-2009, 9:42 PM
What's this guys phone number? :p

Mazilla
05-20-2009, 9:43 PM
Good choice, would you mind PMing me his contact info? ;)

TheBundo
05-20-2009, 10:03 PM
I'm sure it must have been tempting but you did the right thing.:thumbsup: Since 1991, all firearms sales must be done through an FFL (with the exception of long gun C&R's of 50 plus years old).

SCMA-1

Also no need for an FFL on antique guns or replicas, handgun or longgun

gcvt
05-20-2009, 10:30 PM
Good choice, would you mind PMing me his contact info? ;)

Hey, I asked first and I'm closer :p

tombinghamthegreat
05-20-2009, 10:55 PM
He is asking $250 for the rifle? :Ivan:

umoja
05-20-2009, 11:36 PM
Hm... good deal, under the table...

Nothing suspicious here, just move along :shifty:

rkt88edmo
05-21-2009, 12:56 AM
You did the right thing.

BroncoBob
05-21-2009, 7:04 AM
Something smells like "fish".

Theseus
05-21-2009, 8:31 AM
He might have thought he was in the legal, he may have been crooked. . . Better save than sorry.

What really makes me upset is all the people that I talk to that have 10 SKS's and how I have none. . . :taz:

Dr. Peter Venkman
05-21-2009, 8:35 AM
You did what the antis wanted you to, or to state thusly, you made the correct "legul" decision.

rod
05-21-2009, 9:05 AM
Only in CA was that a good decision. Anywhere else, you could have bought that gun and bragged about it to every cop you passed on the way home. Keep up the good fight and hopefully, sometime soon, California laws will allow you to cash and carry anywhere you want.

SgtDinosaur
05-21-2009, 9:05 AM
It could have been some kind of sting. You were smart to walk.

timdps
05-21-2009, 9:30 AM
Had it been a Russian SKS (with marked date of manufacture 50 years ago or more), you would have been good to go.

The problem with Chinese SKSs is that there is no known way to verify the date of manufacture, so no way to determine whether they are actually 50 years old or not.

Chinese started making SKSs in 1956, so there are plenty of them out there that ARE over 50 years old, but its not possible to tell which ones are 50 years old. Therefore no C&R into California and no FTF within California.

Tim

GTXR390
05-21-2009, 10:00 AM
Good choice, would you mind PMing me his contact info? ;)

He is asking $250 for the rifle? :Ivan:



http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/gtxr390/Album001/DL%20PIX/MISC_DL_PIX/its-a-trap.jpg

fred40
05-21-2009, 11:28 AM
very tempting, but waaaay too risky. We probably wouldve watch thia all happen on 20/20

CSACANNONEER
05-21-2009, 11:34 AM
So, you declined to make an illegal firearms transaction in San Francisco? Good for you! I would have declined as well. I'm wondering if Iggy is trying to work his way back up the ladder and had a sting operation set up for you? Seriously, you did the ONLY safe and legal thing you could have done aside from offering a little more $ for the seller's time to do a PPT. When someone REFUSES to sell something legally, I have to assume that it's not legally theirs to sell.

SeanCasey
05-21-2009, 11:42 AM
Yes, good call. Always better to safe and legal than in jail.

JDay
05-21-2009, 1:11 PM
Had it been a Russian SKS (with marked date of manufacture 50 years ago or more), you would have been good to go.

All Russian SKS rifles are over 50 years old.

leitung
05-21-2009, 3:30 PM
Good call, you don't know where that gun has been, nor do you know what he has done with it. +1 for keeping it legal!

gunsmithcats
05-21-2009, 3:46 PM
that trap picture is wrong.

Dirtbiker
05-21-2009, 4:14 PM
HMMM Isn't hemp also a plant... :rolleyes:

Where's BWO

Glock22Fan
05-21-2009, 4:16 PM
I declined something equally suspicious a couple of years back.

I took my Ruger Mk I to a dealer for a valuation as I was thinking of selling it (and getting a Mk III.) He suggested a figure for a private sale, and I left the store to think about it. A guy that had been hanging about in the store came out to the car park, and offered to buy the gun for the suggested price and showed me a roll of cash, but wouldn't go back into the store - he said he didn't want to bother with the DROS but, as all he wanted it for was plinking in the desert, I shouldn't worry about that.

I still said "no" and he said "Really, it's all right, I'm a cop." Yes, really! He even showed me an ID card (which looked more like an ID card for a private security firm).

Eventually he went away, and a few weeks later I sold the Mk I legally, for the same amount of money.

1BigPea
05-21-2009, 4:29 PM
So, you declined to make an illegal firearms transaction in San Francisco? Good for you! I would have declined as well. I'm wondering if Iggy is trying to work his way back up the ladder and had a sting operation set up for you? Seriously, you did the ONLY safe and legal thing you could have done aside from offering a little more $ for the seller's time to do a PPT. When someone REFUSES to sell something legally, I have to assume that it's not legally theirs to sell.

^
Wow, yeah imagine that, even the thought of being that close to a sting trap...ugh.

To OP: Did it seem like he would be open to meeting at a FFL?

Meplat
05-21-2009, 6:09 PM
You don't even know the guy, and your wondering if you made the right call because you didn't commit a felony in front of him? You made the right call for sure.

The seller is breaking the law. The buyer is not. Probably not a good idea though.

tankerman
05-21-2009, 6:31 PM
Would you ask him what good guns he has for sale?

M. Sage
05-21-2009, 6:36 PM
Don't Semi-auto carbines need to be treated like hand guns when it comes to FFL transfer, DROS etc?

Negative. Semi-auto carbines are no different than semi-auto rifles or bolt-action rifles/carbines, or shotguns.

But they still have to go through an FFL (in CA) unless it's 50 years or older.

Hemp
05-21-2009, 7:31 PM
Thanks for all your guys assurances. I couldn't get the gun/price out of my head and just needed to hear from other people that I did the right thing.

I called the guy and left a message on his home phone number. I'm almost positive it wasn't a sting. The guy was a retired baby boomer, married, nice house in the East Bay, big gun collector; but you never know.

Hopefully he'll reply and we can work out a deal.

Note, my friend did not connect with the seller on Calguns.

Thanks again all.

Hemp

Table Rock Arms
05-21-2009, 8:39 PM
The seller is breaking the law. The buyer is not. Probably not a good idea though.

So if someone offers to sell me a rifle, and I buy it from him not through an FFL, I am not breaking the law. Please explain.

Mssr. Eleganté
05-21-2009, 9:14 PM
So if someone offers to sell me a rifle, and I buy it from him not through an FFL, I am not breaking the law. Please explain.

He won't be able to explain. He is incorrect. If you purchase a non-exempt firearm from somebody without going through an FFL, then both you and the seller would be in violation of California Penal Code section 12072(d).

12072(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

Ground Loop
05-21-2009, 10:50 PM
If you wanted it, I would have offered him $300 to drive over to an FFL and paper it. He gets an extra $50 for his time & trouble, and you get to sleep well. (And you spend another $35, but hey, you're not on the evening news)

Maestro Pistolero
05-21-2009, 11:40 PM
Sounds like a setup to me.

DDT
05-22-2009, 12:00 AM
If you really want the gun work something out with your local FFL to roadtrip to his house and have him fill out the seller's paperwork there. Might cost a few more bucks, or just a burger and a couple beers but it you really want it it'd be worth it.

tombinghamthegreat
05-22-2009, 12:15 AM
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/gtxr390/Album001/DL%20PIX/MISC_DL_PIX/its-a-trap.jpg

I know it is, and i would have avoided it but the price....

Meplat
05-22-2009, 5:54 PM
So if someone offers to sell me a rifle, and I buy it from him not through an FFL, I am not breaking the law. Please explain.

Explain what? Do you expect me to quote a code section that says it is NOT unlawful? If there is not a law against it, it is not against the law. There is no law that says you can’t buy an SKS rifle just that you cannot sell one without an FFL.

If you claim it is illegal to BUY pleas site for me the law that makes it so. It is my position that such a law does not exist.

Meplat
05-22-2009, 6:13 PM
He won't be able to explain. He is incorrect. If you purchase a non-exempt firearm from somebody without going through an FFL, then both you and the seller would be in violation of California Penal Code section 12072(d).

I stand corrected. Thank you.
:thumbsup: