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View Full Version : anyone else tired of getting ripped off by cali shops


stormy_clothing
05-20-2009, 8:01 PM
I went to CWS and asked how much for a specific ar that I know they pay 700 for - the answer - a special so cal deal of 1500

Entreprise which was selling ak's for 600 is selling the same gun for 1100 now. they get them from inter arms and pay only a few bux more for them.

recently I went to a place were I had prepaid for a pistol lower. a mega which I know they payed less than 90 bux for there cost. I paid 150 but because of some mix up on there part they wanted 200, they told me a deal would be for 190.

Same with there selection of Kaiser Defense lowers which still are less than 100 dealer cost.

I don't mind shops making a profit but I hate it when they say there not going to gouge and raise there prices 30% - 50% anyway whiles still paying basically the same prices

mega lowers went up a whopping 5 bux dealer cost after obamathon.

I no longer will shop any of these places and I recently bought my ak at dds ranch for 620 shipped and a glock g17 for 470 shipped from top glock.

if this is how cali gun shops plan on staying in business in the age of online price checking, god help them.

If it were me I would at least match online plus shipping and find a way to do other things like servicing ar's or something.

but tacking on huge sums and lying about it will probably mean a whole bunch of them disappear (not soon enough for me)

rant over - lol

one notable is riflegear who is somewhat reasonable especially with there parts and the rancho magnum range which has begun selling new glocks for 515

tomd1584
05-20-2009, 8:05 PM
well, you can always stop buying from them. take a stance! when people stop paying the high prices, they will have to lower prices....its already starting to happen..

stormy_clothing
05-20-2009, 8:06 PM
yeah, I hope that some of them who happen to advertise here see these posts and realize it before I by everything from south dakota instead, lol

sickboy774
05-20-2009, 8:08 PM
well, you can always stop buying from them. take a stance! when people stop paying the high prices, they will have to lower prices....its already starting to happen..

I was gonna say just like gasoline but yeah...they are climbing up again.

norcal-ar
05-20-2009, 8:10 PM
i wish i could buy a pistol lower for $190 right now. seems like everyone wants you to dros a complete pistol ar only.

BillyGoatMachine
05-20-2009, 8:11 PM
You only get ripped off if you buy something that's overpriced. I simply don't purchase over priced items from local shops, or online vendors. Hopefully most people will adopt this attitude and prices will drop somewhat.

Gator Monroe
05-20-2009, 8:13 PM
Bottom shelf AR lowers should be $125.00 (R Guns) to $150.00ish (Anvil,essential Arms,Doublestar... even today

Ducman
05-20-2009, 8:25 PM
i wish i could buy a pistol lower for $190 right now. seems like everyone wants you to dros a complete pistol ar only.

Because that is the LAW, you can't dros a stripped lower pistol,no way around it.

God Bless The Mauser
05-20-2009, 8:25 PM
Sportsmans Warehouse has good prices which is probably why they never have any ammo other than 12 gauge and the top shelf hunting ammo. I bought a bunch of reloading stuff from there and it was priced about the same as when I was looking on Midway.

CSACANNONEER
05-20-2009, 8:31 PM
No shop can rip you off unless you choose to become a victim. If you don't like their prices, don't shop there! Have you ever been ripped off paying $5 for a 50 cent cup of coffee? Have you ever bought something from one store and then found it cheaper at another? Grow up, quit whining and become an informed shopper or pay the price. Of course, you could open your own gunshop and sell everything at cost. I'm sure many of us would be spending money in your shop every day until you couldn't pay your overhead or buy food to eat.

sonicbuff
05-20-2009, 8:34 PM
I've seen a Century SAR-2 asked for $1200. :eek:

No bite !!

Patience is the virtue. I won't rush unless it's a collectible item, or one of a kind find.

FS00008
05-20-2009, 8:34 PM
Because that is the LAW, you can't dros a stripped lower pistol,no way around it.


WRONG!

You can't DROS a stripped lower if you're under 21.

Where are you getting this FUD...?

hawk1
05-20-2009, 8:44 PM
WRONG!

You can't DROS a stripped lower if you're under 21.

Where are you getting this FUD...?

Psst, He said pistol lower...

geeknow
05-20-2009, 8:49 PM
to answer your question, no. I am not tired of getting 'ripped off'. I like it.

When I see people capitalizing on their strengths to provide (at a profit) products that are in demand, and see other people lining up to buy that same stuff in droves, it makes me happy.

When I see these same people being rewarded for their efforts (both the good and the bad), I smile.

Who am I to define the limits of anothers success?

Why should it be encumbent upon us to rescue the reckless?

Frankly, I think that small businesses like this, who are evolving as fast as the market is changing represent our best hope for a strong economy going forward, as well as the surest path to reclaiming our place as the global leader in innovation.

Truly...

Darklyte27
05-20-2009, 8:52 PM
You see how willing some of you are?.. just dont buy it.. you arent forced to buy, its just that they are taking advantage of you really wanting the item..

wcnones
05-20-2009, 8:55 PM
to answer your question, no. I am not tired of getting 'ripped off'. I like it.

When I see people capitalizing on their strengths to provide (at a profit) products that are in demand, and see other people lining up to buy that same stuff in droves, it makes me happy.

When I see these same people being rewarded for their efforts (both the good and the bad), I smile.

Who am I to define the limits of anothers success?

Why should it be encumbent upon us to rescue the reckless?

Frankly, I think that small businesses like this, who are evolving as fast as the market is changing represent our best hope for a strong economy going forward, as well as the surest path to reclaiming our place as the global leader in innovation.

Truly...

Then you are a fool and I hope you go broke buying overpriced stuff.

At Crossroads CWS had complete ARs for $1500 (basic nothing special rifles) - $2500 (railed rifles). Hahhahahaha. Idiots lining up to buy them. I hope you were one of them. When you turn 22 let us know how you feel about overpriced stuff. You know, when you aren't living in momma's garage anymore.

Ducman
05-20-2009, 8:59 PM
WRONG!

You can't DROS a stripped lower if you're under 21.

Where are you getting this FUD...?


You can probably FUD yourself :cool:

did you see Pistol Lower :sleeping:

tenpercentfirearms
05-20-2009, 9:00 PM
LOL. $90 Kaiser Lowers. Please tell me where you can find them for $90, I will buy some more. $700 ARs? Again, let me know your source.

The facts are you don't know what you are talking about, as far as dealer pricing goes.

As everyone has stated, if you don't like the price, don't buy it. Or better yet make a thread so the rest of the Calguns elitists can come on here and tell everyone who doesn't get as good a deal as them that they are fools, idiots, and stupid. :rolleyes:

How much longer until we see another gouging thread? I wonder if we can start bets in Vegas on it.

a1fabweld
05-20-2009, 9:01 PM
It's all related to the obvious demand. You spoke about DD's being reasonable. While they are among some of the lowest price dealers currently, I saw they are selling WASR AK's for $520+. They were $350'ish pre-Obama. Just realize that good deals are still out there. You will just have to spend more time shopping for them. I have bought & built many guns since the recent white house disaster for close to, if not the same prices as before the hype. Dealers know that folks are panic buying & will pay a premium for everything gun related. It's to be expected that prices will go up in times as these. Look at the fuel prices last year when we were paying $5 per gallon. Unfortunately, the oil whores know that their gas will still sell at ridiculously high prices & they will inflate it again. I hope this doesn't happen with guns, but at the same time, I don't see things going back to 2008 prices, ever.

JeffM
05-20-2009, 9:01 PM
If you can get it for cheaper elsewhere, do it. Otherwise you can do two things:

a. Get you're own FFL and become a dealer to get dealer pricing and see what kind of overhead you'll have.

b. Stop being a b**** and man up.

Gator Monroe
05-20-2009, 9:04 PM
Man up and pay $200.00+ OTD for a botom shelf lower (NO THANX ):mad:

Saigon1965
05-20-2009, 9:06 PM
Exactly - If you don't like it - Move on -

I would never do it - But there are folks out who would jump at it -

Man up and pay $200.00+ OTD for a botom shelf lower (NO THANX ):mad:

rsandovaljr
05-20-2009, 9:08 PM
I went into my local gun shop and it looked empty. from what i understand shops are having a hard time getting ammo, guns, etc. So they have to mark up the price to pay for next months heating bill because there is no guarantee that glock, ruger, smith & Wesson will fill their orders. In Econ 101 we learned a silly old thing called supply & demand. With guys lining up at the cow palace an hour early with hand carts and fists full of cash you better believe that demand is jacking up prices.

Saigon1965
05-20-2009, 9:09 PM
The poster is posting his opinions - In no way do I see it offending you and called for a post such as yours -

Back on topic - I remember the chaos in 89 then 94 then 00 - Now this - The price of guns might not come down at all - Why should mannufacturers and dealers lower their price -

Then you are a fool and I hope you go broke buying overpriced stuff.

At Crossroads CWS had complete ARs for $1500 (basic nothing special rifles) - $2500 (railed rifles). Hahhahahaha. Idiots lining up to buy them. I hope you were one of them. When you turn 22 let us know how you feel about overpriced stuff. You know, when you aren't living in momma's garage anymore.

jdberger
05-20-2009, 9:10 PM
No shop can rip you off unless you choose to become a victim. If you don't like their prices, don't shop there! Have you ever been ripped off paying $5 for a 50 cent cup of coffee? Have you ever bought something from one store and then found it cheaper at another? Grow up, quit whining and become an informed shopper or pay the price. Of course, you could open your own gunshop and sell everything at cost. I'm sure many of us would be spending money in your shop every day until you couldn't pay your overhead or buy food to eat.

Well said.

If you want it now, you'll have to pay the going rate. If you're willing to wait you might even get it at a discount.

geeknow
05-20-2009, 9:14 PM
Then you are a fool and I hope you go broke buying overpriced stuff.

At Crossroads CWS had complete ARs for $1500 (basic nothing special rifles) - $2500 (railed rifles). Hahhahahaha. Idiots lining up to buy them. I hope you were one of them. When you turn 22 let us know how you feel about overpriced stuff. You know, when you aren't living in momma's garage anymore.


Did I say that I was buying at those prices, selling at those prices, or simply happy that others were? Hmmm? Tough question for a fool...

Help me out wont you...:rolleyes:

Fjold
05-20-2009, 9:23 PM
OK, I'll explain it again.

Let's say that the store only sells lowers and to pay the monthly overhead of rent, utilities, salaries, profit, etc, they need $5,000. So they were selling 100 lowers per month with a $50 markup.

Now they can only get 25 lowers per month to sell. All their other expenses are exactly the same. They have to sell lowers with a $200 markup just to pay their bills.

What else can they do?

Gator Monroe
05-20-2009, 9:26 PM
OK, I'll explain it again.

Let's say that the store only sells lowers and to pay the monthly overhead of rent, utilities, salaries, profit, etc, they need $5,000. So they were selling 100 lowers per month with a $50 markup.

Now they can only get 25 lowers per month to sell. All their other expenses are exactly the same. They have to sell lowers with a $200 markup just to pay their bills.

What else can they do?

Find a deal on some Milsurp stuff and mark that up (Especially if it's desirable)

Saigon1965
05-20-2009, 9:27 PM
And we know how popular mil-surp is around here - Just check how often the C&R forum gets and updated post -

Find a deal on some Milsurp stuff and mark that up (Especially if it's desirable)

Amacias805
05-20-2009, 9:28 PM
Then you are a fool and I hope you go broke buying overpriced stuff.

At Crossroads CWS had complete ARs for $1500 (basic nothing special rifles) - $2500 (railed rifles). Hahhahahaha. Idiots lining up to buy them. I hope you were one of them. When you turn 22 let us know how you feel about overpriced stuff. You know, when you aren't living in momma's garage anymore.

i wouldn't say paying 1500 for an Ar is that bad, its a little much, but how many uppers or complete rifles does that shop actually keep in stock, how much ammo does it have, right now shops are increasing the prices on some stock to make up for other inventory that they cant get,

but your right 2500 is a bit much.
-------------------------------------------


all shops are gonna raise there prices right now, they would be stupid to not raise there prices, but the point is that they shouldn't gouge.
for instance most people probably expect to see guns $50 more than they used to be, but once they start getting up $100-250 for non black rifles, then that would be excessive ...


the other day i was visiting a friend outta town and went to his local gun shop and saw 7.62 x 39 for 19 bucks a box for regular cheapo wolf ammo. that was ridiculous

Saigon1965
05-20-2009, 9:28 PM
A lot of members here would like to see the shops go under then -

OK, I'll explain it again.

Let's say that the store only sells lowers and to pay the monthly overhead of rent, utilities, salaries, profit, etc, they need $5,000. So they were selling 100 lowers per month with a $50 markup.

Now they can only get 25 lowers per month to sell. All their other expenses are exactly the same. They have to sell lowers with a $200 markup just to pay their bills.

What else can they do?

ke6guj
05-20-2009, 9:29 PM
i wish i could buy a pistol lower for $190 right now. seems like everyone wants you to dros a complete pistol ar only.

Because that is the LAW, you can't dros a stripped lower pistol,no way around it.

WRONG!

You can't DROS a stripped lower if you're under 21.

Where are you getting this FUD...?

You can probably FUD yourself :cool:

did you see Pistol Lower :sleeping:

Yup, norcal said pistol lower, and Ducman was refering to that in his response.

Gator Monroe
05-20-2009, 9:34 PM
A lot of members here would like to see the shops go under then -
No they should just diversify their inventory ( more Used stuff and Vintage collectable firearm related items & milsurp always gets folks happy)

Saigon1965
05-20-2009, 9:36 PM
What's driving the market now are BRD not the stuff you and I like - I would love to see shops have more than the wall decor of C&Rs - I just don't think it's going to happen -

No they should just diversify their inventory ( more Used stuff and Vintage collectable firearm related items & milsurp always gets folks happy)

eaglemike
05-20-2009, 9:36 PM
Interesting thread......

+1 for Wes' comments

CWS had AR's that came with a case, BB, and 10/30 for $1299 at the recent Del Mar and Orange County shows. They had railed stuff for more $$, and .308 Fulton complete rifles for $2200 or so, might have been $2300. I saw .308 with Noveske parts at Del Mar for $2300 at the the CWS table a few months ago. They had LRB Ams stripped lowers for $169, plus tax and DROS, CMMG for $189. IMHO this is a pretty decent price at this time in California. Prices might be higher by now. Supply vs demand.........

JMHO.......

Gator Monroe
05-20-2009, 9:38 PM
What's driving the market now are BRD not the stuff you and I like - I would love to see shops have more than the wall decor of C&Rs - I just don't think it's going to happen -

You would have loved Olde West Gun & Loan one year ago !:(

Saigon1965
05-20-2009, 9:41 PM
Krausewerks here in San Mateo is a pretty good mil-surp/C&R shop - I had posted some pictures awhile back -

But the shops that are doing well here in the Bay are the ones stocking BRD -

You would have loved Olde West Gun & Loan one year ago !:(

wcnones
05-20-2009, 10:11 PM
Did I say that I was buying at those prices, selling at those prices, or simply happy that others were? Hmmm? Tough question for a fool...

Help me out wont you...:rolleyes:


You said you were happy to see overpriced stuff. Call me crazy but a comment such as that is begging for someone to tell it like it is.

rumble phish
05-20-2009, 10:15 PM
I was recently at a shop which will remain unnamed. Now mind you this a good shop which many of you have patronized in the past and continue to do so. I personally really like this shop which is why I WILL NOT name them in this response. Anyway, while I was there I overheard a guy inquire about AR's. He spoke in broken English (Asian guy) and he was interested but didn't really know much about them. He only knew that they were hard to come by right now. The shop had several in stock and the one that they showed him I believe was a Stag Model 2H. IIRC, I overheard the sales person tell him that after tax and DROS it would run him around $2000. Yes, I said $2000.

Later that day I saw the same guy at the range where he was shooting trap. He came over to the rifle range and was watching the shooters so I went over to him and asked if he was at the gun shop earlier. HE said that yes, he was and we started to discuss my AR's. I brought him over to my bench to show him the same rifle he looked at in the shop. i told him that i could sell him one just like it for $1200. He was in disbelief. I then told him to check out Calguns and to watch the sale threads for good deals. As for the shop, well heck, if they can get $2 g's for a Stag 2H then more power to them. This IS America after all. I just didn't want to see an AR newbie get ripped off.

wcnones
05-20-2009, 10:16 PM
Interesting thread......

+1 for Wes' comments

CWS had AR's that came with a case, BB, and 10/30 for $1299 at the recent Del Mar and Orange County shows. They had railed stuff for more $$, and .308 Fulton complete rifles for $2200 or so, might have been $2300. I saw .308 with Noveske parts at Del Mar for $2300 at the the CWS table a few months ago. They had LRB Ams stripped lowers for $169, plus tax and DROS, CMMG for $189. IMHO this is a pretty decent price at this time in California. Prices might be higher by now. Supply vs demand.........

JMHO.......

Just because demand is high does not mean a vendor is warranted in gouging. CWS can charge all they want for a rifle - if stupid ***tards line up to buy them then so be it. But when the dust settles (and it will, despite Wes' warnings that no ARs will ever again be produced), people will remember the vendors that played nice and the vendors that took advantage of uninformed buyers. You notice all the car dealers closing shop nowadays? The ones that still have lights on never added $5000 addendums to cars in high demand.

CWS - pay stupid prices and get crap additudes at no extra cost! Can't wait to see the Highland shop boarded up once all the mania has died out. I would feel differently if I got a smile with the sandpaper rod in my rear-end. But hell, if you're gonna prison rape me at least treat me like a human being.

slick_711
05-20-2009, 10:44 PM
lol. What on earth makes you think the prices the CA shops are paying didn't go up to warrant their increased retail prices? I can't speak for all the shops, but I know the shop I frequent is getting jacked. They are having a very hard time finding ammo & many types of guns, and when they do find them the prices are much higher than six months ago. And as Fjold illustrated, they have to stay in business. But go ahead and piss & moan about it all you want. :thumbsup:

rsandovaljr
05-20-2009, 10:49 PM
Market Prices are Market prices. That is why it is called the Law of supply and demand and not the theory of supply and demand. There is no monopoly hear. One company isn't making all the lowers and asking astronomical prices. Everyone in the country right now is buying up anything and everything gun related. Almost every website I have visited has a 6 to 8 month waiting list for anything black rifle related and ammo related. This is not the De beers mining company hiding billions of OLL in a Swiss vault to jack up the price. There are at least 10 companies manufacturing lowers that I can think of and there is probably more. All these companies are in competition with each other. So it would be in their best interest to produce as much as possible to compete. However production cant keep up with the demand which is why we see the prices we do. I love a good conspiracy every once and a while but this isn't I am afraid.

I will say this there is a lot of scare tactics being used by some vendors. For example the last gun show before the election a vendor selling AR's and Ak's told me that these would probably be illegal by February. A very gullible man next to me pulled out his credit card and bought a 1200 AR.

Its May and people are still buying them.

Obama is the number one guns sales man in America.

Gunaria
05-20-2009, 11:00 PM
Good for you to the OP. Don't let yourself get gouge and don't feed them. Deals are still out there you just have to search a little harder now. I say buy online and have them shipped to a kitchen table FFL who will do the transfer for $50 (that includes the DROS).

Dirtbiker
05-20-2009, 11:02 PM
I hear time and time again that CWS gouges on AR stuff. I have bought a grand total of two things from them.

1. Stag 2H Upper $450.00 (last year)
2. Rock River 9mm upper $500 (last week)

Funny, they don't look overpriced to me. I must have more money than sense.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
05-20-2009, 11:04 PM
Good for you to the OP. Don't let yourself get gouge and don't feed them. Deals are still out there you just have to search a little harder now. I say buy online and have them shipped to a kitchen table FFL who will do the transfer for $50 (that includes the DROS).

Amen!

IsaacGlass
05-20-2009, 11:14 PM
WRONG!

You can't DROS a stripped lower if you're under 21.

Where are you getting this FUD...?


Psst, He said pistol lower...

:rofl2:

psssniper
05-20-2009, 11:17 PM
Cali is in Columbia
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Cali_2007_mundial_del_patinaje.jpg
You live in California

Santiago de Cali (Spanish pronunciation: [sanˈtjaɰo đ̞e ˈkali]), simply referred to as Cali, is a city in western Colombia and the capital of the Valle del Cauca Department. With a population of 2,068,386, Cali is the third largest city in the country. Cali was founded on July 25, 1536 by the Spanish conquistador Sebastián de Belalcázar.

///D
05-20-2009, 11:27 PM
I would be lying if I said I didn't feel the same way, but bottom line it's their business and they charge what they want. Sad but people will pay as we've obviously been seeing. It's not only CA shops, but also private sales. Basic uppers for 800-900, LPK's for 100, lowers for 250, and so on. It's like this everywhere.

Sgt Raven
05-20-2009, 11:39 PM
Just because demand is high does not mean a vendor is warranted in gouging. CWS can charge all they want for a rifle - if stupid ***tards line up to buy them then so be it. But when the dust settles (and it will, despite Wes' warnings that no ARs will ever again be produced), people will remember the vendors that played nice and the vendors that took advantage of uninformed buyers. You notice all the car dealers closing shop nowadays? The ones that still have lights on never added $5000 addendums to cars in high demand.

CWS - pay stupid prices and get crap additudes at no extra cost! Can't wait to see the Highland shop boarded up once all the mania has died out. I would feel differently if I got a smile with the sandpaper rod in my rear-end. But hell, if you're gonna prison rape me at least treat me like a human being.

Who held the gun to your head and made you buy any over priced items? What over priced item did you buy that you would have died without? Nothing from CWS and you weren't gouged. :TFH: :eek: :rolleyes:

wcnones
05-20-2009, 11:43 PM
Who held the gun to your head and made you buy any over priced items? What over priced item did you buy that you would have died without? Nothing from CWS and you weren't gouged. :TFH: :eek: :rolleyes:

No one. And either quote words of mine claiming as much or STFU please. I don't like words being put into my mouth any more than you do.

But hey, if you champion the rights of rude SOBs who price gouge, then I guess you know something I don't. I presume you've never shopped at CWS, or else you'd recognize the cold, indifferent "GTFO of my shop because I have fatter cats to cheese money from" attitude that they piss all over your face.

wcnones
05-20-2009, 11:47 PM
I hear time and time again that CWS gouges on AR stuff. I have bought a grand total of two things from them.

1. Stag 2H Upper $450.00 (last year)
2. Rock River 9mm upper $500 (last week)

Funny, they don't look overpriced to me. I must have more money than sense.

Clearly you haven't seen their $900 GSG-5s. Maybe the huge piles of money you were carting around in your wheelbarrow blocked the price tag from your view.

They had a FN-SCAR at Ontario Crossroads. I didn't dare ask them what their price was. I was afriad of what kind of reaction it would draw.

chickenfried
05-20-2009, 11:53 PM
Thanks for the laughs WC.

Nessal
05-21-2009, 12:03 AM
I don't mind places gouging as long as they don't say that they AREN'T gouging.

blackrifle242
05-21-2009, 12:23 AM
The only thing that has pissed me off lately is I purchased a AR from a local dealer and paid $1600.00 (My stupid days of not building them myself). I decided that I needed the money so I took it back to the dealer and he said he would buy it back and priced out every part on the rifle at his cost and said he would buy it back from me for $700.00. I understand marking things up 25% - 40% but we are talking over a 100% markup. So I was stupid then and smarter now.

Frijolito1988
05-21-2009, 12:39 AM
Let these FFL's sell theyre product for what ever the **** they want, there will ALWAYS be people lining up to buy it. Who are we to tell them how to run theyre company.They are/used to use scare tactics saying the sky is falling and get them before they are gone! Money makes the world go round for these guys so its happy times right now. What i WONT tollerate is these cocky *** FFL's thinking they are tuff **** and own the world , goign on other forums saying how " calguns are elitist " and " a fool and his money " that is a ****ing insult. I dont understand how alot of california gun owners still buy from these goddamn FFL's . But what ever floats their boat. These are the same FFL's that will shake your hand, while they are pissing on your leg...

Futurecollector
05-21-2009, 12:48 AM
I want a Cheap 9mm upper, just thought I would throw that out there lol

you can PM me lol,



oh and WC thanks for the Lulzs

shooterdave
05-21-2009, 12:56 AM
"a fool and his money are soon parted" thats my take on some of these ffl's.

Gunaria
05-21-2009, 1:19 AM
Epic thread, IBTL!

Nicely put Bean.

DB not a bad price on the RRA 9mm upper. RRA only charges $490 for them but I say you got a deal beacuse the wait time from RRA is what, about 6-9 months.

Nicely put Nessel, let the truth set them free.

elSquid
05-21-2009, 2:49 AM
If vendors didn't charge market prices in the current bubble - and instead charged pre-Obama prices - they wouldn't have any inventory at all.

Take BCM uppers. A typical upper runs $475 sans handguards, CH, BCG. When new batches are offered for sale they sell out in minutes. If you aren't lucky enough to be in the right place in the right time, you are SOL.

Well, that's not completely true. You can buy on the secondary market, where you'll pay the market price.

I can't fault the vendors for charging market prices in the current bubble any more than I could find fault with my own pre-Obama behaviour where I would price shop vendors against each other. Two sides of the same coin.

I imagine that the folks complaining about high prices in times of scarcity would never expect to buy at a discount to MSRP in those times when excess supply exists, right? Why, that would be inconsistent... or maybe self-serving. :eek:

-- Michael

JeffM
05-21-2009, 2:52 AM
...I overheard the sales person tell him that after tax and DROS it would run him around $2000.... i told him that i could sell him one just like it for $1200...


What kind of customer service/support do you offer?


Do you have an FFL? a business license? Do you collect sales tax?


...Or do you only offer that $1200 deal once to one person because if you had the above overhead you'd go broke?


...Or are you simply dealing without a license?

ZombieKiller
05-21-2009, 5:19 AM
There's a hole in the wall shop here CHULA VISTA that calls itself "Chula Vista Gun Store"......

The don't even have an FFL and they call themselves that. He carries ammo and mall ninja stuff.

I asked if he happened to have Lower Parts Kits in.....he said YES! I DO!

I asked how much and he said- $180......I laughed and said "No, really- how much I need a couple." He said "$180.......That's what they go for right now. That's about what I pay- I'm not making much in them."

I couldn't believe he had the balls to actually say they cost $180 for an LPK.
I didn't know what to say and got this feeling like laughing out loud at him- so I did and I left.

tenpercentfirearms
05-21-2009, 5:21 AM
Just because demand is high does not mean a vendor is warranted in gouging. CWS can charge all they want for a rifle - if stupid ***tards line up to buy them then so be it. But when the dust settles (and it will, despite Wes' warnings that no ARs will ever again be produced), people will remember the vendors that played nice and the vendors that took advantage of uninformed buyers. You notice all the car dealers closing shop nowadays? The ones that still have lights on never added $5000 addendums to cars in high demand.

CWS - pay stupid prices and get crap additudes at no extra cost! Can't wait to see the Highland shop boarded up once all the mania has died out. I would feel differently if I got a smile with the sandpaper rod in my rear-end. But hell, if you're gonna prison rape me at least treat me like a human being.LOL. What a hypocrite. Note the words in black above. I know I have never said that. However, read further down in this very thread and read this.

And either quote words of mine claiming as much or STFU please. I don't like words being put into my mouth any more than you do. Your credibility is now zero.

That is why your tangent analogy of car shops going out of business is because of some sort of "gouging" on their end. LOL. Talk about left field.

Does everyone notice the common theme on Calguns now a days? I can sum it up for you.

I am the smartest damn consumer that ever lived. I am so freaking brilliant, I have never paid above cost on anything I have ever purchased. I have the utmost pity for the morons, idiots, and retards who are so stupid that they will ever pay over cost for their items. A fool and their money will soon be parted. If it wasn't for my extreme wisdom here in these gouging threads, even more bafoons would be wasting their money, keeping the economy going, and keeping gun shops in business. I am glad I could enlighten all of the dipsticks in the world that they all suck and will never be as good at the allocation of product as I am. I am the Calguns master of great deals and no one can rival my greatness.

Seriously, take a step back and realize how elitist and snobby some of you sound. There is no need to bad mouth people who have money and want to spend it. Please by all means educate your friends and others on how to get a good deal. Just don't insult them while you are at it with all of this name calling. And understand, some people have more money than time or Internet knowledge. They don't want to shop around for hours, they want it and they want it now. Despite your cries that these people are idiots, they are not. They just have more money than you.

Maybe that is why we have all of the name calling. Maybe what we are witnessing here is true class struggle.

wcnones
05-21-2009, 5:40 AM
LOL. What a hypocrite. Note the words in black above. I know I have never said that. However, read further down in this very thread and read this.

Your credibility is now zero.

That is why your tangent analogy of car shops going out of business is because of some sort of "gouging" on their end. LOL. Talk about left field.

Does everyone notice the common theme on Calguns now a days? I can sum it up for you.



Seriously, take a step back and realize how elitist and snobby some of you sound. There is no need to bad mouth people who have money and want to spend it. Please by all means educate your friends and others on how to get a good deal. Just don't insult them while you are at it with all of this name calling. And understand, some people have more money than time or Internet knowledge. They don't want to shop around for hours, they want it and they want it now. Despite your cries that these people are idiots, they are not. They just have more money than you.

Maybe that is why we have all of the name calling. Maybe what we are witnessing here is true class struggle.

You consistently fail to recognize elementary analogies that I posit. Clearly your cracker-jack Nickelodeon logic does not equate with well reasoned and educated analysis. I have no further use for you. Be gone.

fabguy
05-21-2009, 6:10 AM
I can only say that it isn,t just california gun shops. December I have been to shops in: illinois(2), ohio (7) washington(3) and the trend is everywhere. December in OH. an AR was 799.00 in april same AR was on sale for a mere 1500.00 . As a business owner I will say that if you push a vendor for faster delivery you will pay a premiuim. If you work long hrs. there's ALOT of overhead costs. It is a trickle down effect that in the end effects only the consumer. To truly effect this situation EVERYONE needs to stop buying the products, The same as you would w/gasoline. Cut the demand therefore severs the cost to product same as done with autos this yr.

luchador768
05-21-2009, 6:17 AM
I just paid $250 for a Smith and Wesson M&P 15 lower at Discount Gun Mart. About $75 more than I should have I guess, however I have not seen one for sale at any other shop in San Diego. It is a quality piece of gear, I wanted it, they have it, we did buisness. I did pass on the $500 case of Wolf 7.62X39 ammo. Some one will buy it though.

thefurball
05-21-2009, 6:23 AM
Shop elsewhere.

tenpercentfirearms
05-21-2009, 6:40 AM
You consistently fail to recognize elementary analogies that I posit. Clearly your cracker-jack Nickelodeon logic does not equate with well reasoned and educated analysis. I have no further use for you. Be gone.

LOL. You can use a thesaurus! However, my clear evidence of your hypocrisy remains undisputed. I wonder why that is.

Or better yet professor, why not expand on your auto industry analogy. Tell us how gouging caused the auto industry to fail. Be sure to discount those outlandish theories on expensive union contracts, sub par product, and the shrinking economy. Please make a solid case that it was the local dealer who tried to gouge their customers that caused entire corporations to fail.

You see I dispute you with actual logic and reasoning, you throw insults. Anyone else notice a pattern here?

I know, don't feed the :troll:.

AR-Kev
05-21-2009, 6:53 AM
I brought him over to my bench to show him the same rifle he looked at in the shop. i told him that i could sell him one just like it for $1200. He was in disbelief. I then told him to check out Calguns and to watch the sale threads for good deals. As for the shop, well heck, if they can get $2 g's for a Stag 2H then more power to them. This IS America after all. I just didn't want to see an AR newbie get ripped off.

I wish I met someone like you before I bought the parts for my gun, could of saved around $300 easy. Ooh well that was the first gun I bought and really I don't mind, I am going to be buying many many more guns in the future and wont be making the same mistakes again.

lawaia
05-21-2009, 8:24 AM
All I can say to the OP is start your own gun shop. Maybe that will give you a dose of reality as far as running a business.

What I don't understand is the people that ***** about the prices, as if the gun shops owe them the favor of low prices in return for the customer coming to their store. They owe you nothing! The store is in business to make money, not to be your best friend! Either buy the item or go elsewhere. The consumer as a group sets the tolerance for pricing. It's a simple principle of supply and demand.

The current pricing is where the market will tolerate. If people stop buying, the prices will fall over time as manufacturers and retail stores try to gain more business. The only control you have over price is to find it for less elsewhere, if that is possible.

eaglemike
05-21-2009, 8:27 AM
I just paid $250 for a Smith and Wesson M&P 15 lower at Discount Gun Mart. About $75 more than I should have I guess, however I have not seen one for sale at any other shop in San Diego. It is a quality piece of gear, I wanted it, they have it, we did buisness. I did pass on the $500 case of Wolf 7.62X39 ammo. Some one will buy it though.
When you find a S&W lower for $175, please let me know. I'd be very happy to buy one for close to that. IMHO the $250 price is pretty decent these days.... in California.....

luchador768
05-21-2009, 8:31 AM
When you find a S&W lower for $175, please let me know. I'd be very happy to buy one for close to that. IMHO the $250 price is pretty decent these days.... in California.....
They still have a few in stock. I think I got a deal, but the $100 dollar lower crowd probably thinks I got hosed.

fabguy
05-21-2009, 8:34 AM
AMEN.......Lawaia.. sometimes it sucks to own a bussiness because for the most part it owns YOU.

MILLITIAof1
05-21-2009, 8:41 AM
They still have a few in stock. I think I got a deal, but the $100 dollar lower crowd probably thinks I got hosed.

yep.

rsandovaljr
05-21-2009, 8:42 AM
The 100 dollar lower croud is living in the past. I remember when 550 rounds of remington 22lr use to be 4.99 a box at wally world. Let's please stop bashing our local ffl's. Running a small buisness is tough . You can't just count the heating bill into the cost of doing buisness. What about harasment of our local governments on these shop owners . These men and woman supply use with what we want and the price tag is alittle heavy now days .

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 8:49 AM
Clearly you haven't seen their $900 GSG-5s. Maybe the huge piles of money you were carting around in your wheelbarrow blocked the price tag from your view.

They had a FN-SCAR at Ontario Crossroads. I didn't dare ask them what their price was. I was afriad of what kind of reaction it would draw.


HA, they wanted a little over $5K for that SCAR and the stupid comment I got from one of the chicks behind the counter was that "its worth $8k". What is it, made of gold?

CWS was selling STAGS for over $1500 at the Ontario gunshow, nothing special straight 16 inch carbines. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=129321565

Geez, I get it, its capitalism, but i don't think they're doing any favors for the shooting sports. I want my sport to flourish and expand, but by ripping off noobs, I think its counterproductive.

Let them charge what they want, I'll remember the stores ripping people off and I'll make sure they get none of my business.

Gator Monroe
05-21-2009, 8:53 AM
When you find a S&W lower for $175, please let me know. I'd be very happy to buy one for close to that. IMHO the $250 price is pretty decent these days.... in California.....

When there are lowers in SGN and around the various Mfgr. & web vendors for $125.00 to $150.00 today ? I don't get the sooo 3 months ago mentality ?

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 8:55 AM
While...I don't mind DAs wanking about prices.....

NO ONE is getting ripped off....PERIOD....

Supplies are picking up some.....

CLOSE UP....NO WAY....WE ARE LOOKING AT EXPANDING.......:thumbsup: Have been for over 10 YEARS......

We have GLOCKS at 509 this week....so get'em....

We drag in more new shooters everyweek.....

Spend about 15K per month on advertising......BLACK RIFLE DISEASE....SPREAD IT.......

SCAR....SOLD IT....GREAT RIFLE....HOW MANY CA LEGAL SCARs have you seen.......

LOWERS....109.99 this week.....sale before....this BS thread....

MILLITIAof1
05-21-2009, 8:58 AM
The 100 dollar lower croud is living in the past. I remember when 550 rounds of remington 22lr use to be 4.99 a box at wally world. Let's please stop bashing our local ffl's. Running a small buisness is tough . You can't just count the heating bill into the cost of doing buisness. What about harasment of our local governments on these shop owners . These men and woman supply use with what we want and the price tag is alittle heavy now days .

No, we just have at least half a brain. I have bought 15+ lowers in the past 6 months and I never paid over $125.

YHM
Doublestar
Superior
essential
cmmg

MILLITIAof1
05-21-2009, 8:59 AM
While...I don't mind DAs wanking about prices.....

NO ONE is getting ripped off....PERIOD....

Supplies are picking up some.....

CLOSE UP....NO WAY....WE ARE LOOKING AT EXPANDING.......:thumbsup: Have been for over 10 YEARS......

We have GLOCKS at 509 this week....so get'em....

We drag in more new shooters everyweek.....

Spend about 15K per month on advertising......BLACK RIFLE DISEASE....SPREAD IT.......

dont forget to mention that you brought oll's to ca.

MasterYong
05-21-2009, 9:00 AM
LOL. $90 Kaiser Lowers. Please tell me where you can find them for $90, I will buy some more. $700 ARs? Again, let me know your source.

The facts are you don't know what you are talking about, as far as dealer pricing goes.

As everyone has stated, if you don't like the price, don't buy it. Or better yet make a thread so the rest of the Calguns elitists can come on here and tell everyone who doesn't get as good a deal as them that they are fools, idiots, and stupid. :rolleyes:

How much longer until we see another gouging thread? I wonder if we can start bets in Vegas on it.

I can get a Del-Ton complete rifle for $700.

Then again, it's a Del-Ton!

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 9:06 AM
dont forget to mention that you brought oll's to ca.

Good point....THX........:thumbsup:

Black Majik
05-21-2009, 9:14 AM
What the hell is up with Calgunners looking forward to shops closing? Where you gonna do your shopping then? Online?

If so, why not just do your online shopping right now instead of complaining about prices? If it's too expensive for you, wait til' supply and demand evens out a little. There's no reason to go out and buy expensive guns right now anyways.

The talk of CWS boarding up their shop is ridiculous. I know I used to look forward to stopping by the CWS booth at the gunshows to look at their stuff (used to because I don't go to the shows anymore). They've done a lot for us in CA, I've bought a few guns from them and they still offered me some good deals.

If the black rifle shops somehow all went out of business, where would you go shopping at in Socal?

Plus, Cold War has a shop in TX too. I'm sure they're doing plenty fine. Them having a shop here in CA is doing us a favor. If they boarded up and closed they probably wouldn't mind as they'd just go back to Texas.

Thanks Hector and Michelle!

chickenfried
05-21-2009, 9:15 AM
Was CWS the first? Quit trying to reason with wcnones et al and just enjoy the comedy.
dont forget to mention that you brought oll's to ca.

Black Majik
05-21-2009, 9:17 AM
Was CWS the first?

I thought it was Wes.

offrdmania
05-21-2009, 9:19 AM
I love how the OP comes in and starts a fight but doesnt come back to defend himself. Looks to me like he was hoping that everyone would start fighting without him

Gator Monroe
05-21-2009, 9:22 AM
I love how the OP comes in and starts a fight but doesnt come back to defend himself. Looks to me like he was hoping that everyone would start fighting without him

My threads are the exact reverse of that !:eek:

chickenfried
05-21-2009, 9:22 AM
me tooI thought it was Wes.

luchador768
05-21-2009, 9:22 AM
No, we just have at least half a brain. I have bought 15+ lowers in the past 6 months and I never paid over $125.

YHM
Doublestar
Superior
essential
cmmg


I don't believe that I am dumber than a person that finds a product for less. Good for you for finding great deals.

zman
05-21-2009, 9:24 AM
I thought it was Wes.

I heard it was Chris @ BSP :confused:

+1 to WCNONES for the LOLZ :p

l_Z_l
05-21-2009, 9:24 AM
i guess he's upset the price of everything went up...it's just supply and demand...deal w/ it...nonetheless he's a :troll:

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 9:25 AM
NO ONE is getting ripped off....PERIOD....

So, I forget exactly how much CWS was charging for their STAG carbines at Ontario, but it was over $1500. Take a look at this link.. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=129511800. STAG for $894 buy it now price. So, people outside of California don't seem to have a problem with supply, please enlighten me on how others out of state might be pulling these AR's out of their ***. The guy in the auction is probably making enough profit to keep himself in business, whats CWS's excuse for their prices?

rsandovaljr
05-21-2009, 9:25 AM
No, we just have at least half a brain. I have bought 15+ lowers in the past 6 months and I never paid over $125.

YHM
Doublestar
Superior
essential
cmmg

That is Great! Did you buy them in bulk? Online? I know there are deals out there if you hunt for them. I already bought everything I want before the madness.

The point I am making is that there are a lot of new shooters out there and guys are buying, buying, and buying like crazy. Which is driving up the price in those shops and accusing of them of price gouging is kind of B.S.I have done business with lots of shops in northern California and non of these guys are getting rich and buying up mansions in Palo Alto because they charge 215 for spikes tactical when they use to be 115.

Like I said in an earlier post I walked into my local shop a week ago and it looked like someone had robbed the place because the cases were empty.

Black Majik
05-21-2009, 9:25 AM
I heard it was Chris @ BSP :confused:



LOL don't confuse us! :D

I know that's not true, in late 05', early 06' we either humped it to Taft or waited out in Hector's/Michelle's garage to buy $225 lowers. <=== OMG price gouge!!! :eek: :)

rsandovaljr
05-21-2009, 9:31 AM
What the hell is up with Calgunners looking forward to shops closing? Where you gonna do your shopping then? Online?

If so, why not just do your online shopping right now instead of complaining about prices? If it's too expensive for you, wait til' supply and demand evens out a little. There's no reason to go out and buy expensive guns right now anyways.

The talk of CWS boarding up their shop is ridiculous. I know I used to look forward to stopping by the CWS booth at the gunshows to look at their stuff (used to because I don't go to the shows anymore). They've done a lot for us in CA, I've bought a few guns from them and they still offered me some good deals.

If the black rifle shops somehow all went out of business, where would you go shopping at in Socal?

Plus, Cold War has a shop in TX too. I'm sure they're doing plenty fine. Them having a shop here in CA is doing us a favor. If they boarded up and closed they probably wouldn't mind as they'd just go back to Texas.

Thanks Hector and Michelle!

Well put. I don't know why we are slamming our local FFL's. With them gone we wouldn't even be able to buy anything online.

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 9:33 AM
So, I forget exactly how much CWS was charging for their STAG carbines at Ontario, but it was over $1500. Take a look at this link.. http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=129511800. STAG for $894 buy it now price. So, people outside of California don't seem to have a problem with supply, please enlighten me on how others out of state might be pulling these AR's out of their ***. The guy in the auction is probably making enough profit to keep himself in business, whats CWS's excuse for their prices?

Where do you think we get all the rifles that we sell.......

I always like how everone knows exactly what we pay for the stuff that we sell.....

Now if we sold you a STAG and it wasn't that would be a ripoff.....

STAG rifles are allocated at the distro level.....of which there are 3 distros, I believe.....we don't get all the STAGs we want...simple...we buy from other dealers....

We could sell everything that rolls off of STAG line.....but that's not how it works...

slick_711
05-21-2009, 9:36 AM
WC, someone suggested you start a shop.

Do it. Get your FFL, get the necessary CA permits. The necessary local permits. Pay the fees to keep them. Get your necessary insurance. Get a few decent employees (I'll come work for you if you can match my wages). Then see how long you can stay in business in today's market without raising your prices a little to compensate for A) prices being raised on you and B) lack of stock and thus, lack of sales.

You're looking at this as though it is one sided. It's not.

Gator Monroe
05-21-2009, 9:40 AM
Where do you think we get all the rifles that we sell.......

I always like how everone knows exactly what we pay for the stuff that we sell.....

Now if we sold you a STAG and it wasn't that would be a ripoff.....

Do you ever buy Onesy twosey special interest Items like Hakims or Rashids or Romanian SKS's or exotic Handguns like pristine early Gen 1 Glocks with serial #'s in 3 or 4 digits, or boxes of Chinese Broomhandle mausers, or Original KBI boxed Russian SKS's, or vintage Riot Shotguns such as Ithaca model 37 or Trench guns , or crates of Eastern European cold war military weapons like VZ52's or Yugo SKS's ?

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 9:41 AM
Where do you think we get all the rifles that we sell.......

I always like how everone knows exactly what we pay for the stuff that we sell.....

Now if we sold you a STAG and it wasn't that would be a ripoff.....

STAG rifles are allocated at the distro level.....of which there are 3 distros, I believe.....we don't get all the STAGs we want...simple...we buy from other dealers....

We could sell everything that rolls off of STAG line.....but that's not how it works...


So you buy stuff off gunbroker, and resell it to Californians with the CWS markup?

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 9:42 AM
Do you ever buy Onesy twosey special interest Items like Hakims or Rashids or Romanian SKS's or exotic Handguns like pristine early Gen 1 Glocks with serial #'s in 3 or 4 digits, or boxes of Chinese Broomhandle mausers, or Original KBI boxed Russian SKS's, or vintage Riot Shotguns such as Ithaca model 37 or Trench guns , or crates of Eastern European cold war military weapons like VZ52's or Yugo SKS's ?

Yes....

Gator Monroe
05-21-2009, 9:43 AM
Yes....

For yourself or your Shop ?:confused:

trinydex
05-21-2009, 9:44 AM
to answer your question, no. I am not tired of getting 'ripped off'. I like it.

When I see people capitalizing on their strengths to provide (at a profit) products that are in demand, and see other people lining up to buy that same stuff in droves, it makes me happy.

When I see these same people being rewarded for their efforts (both the good and the bad), I smile.

Who am I to define the limits of anothers success?

Why should it be encumbent upon us to rescue the reckless?

Frankly, I think that small businesses like this, who are evolving as fast as the market is changing represent our best hope for a strong economy going forward, as well as the surest path to reclaiming our place as the global leader in innovation.

Truly...

not too sure about your line of reasoning. mainly because you're actually talking about adapting, not evolving. i agree that fast evolving entities will improve and do well. fast adapting is not the same thing. evolving a business venture of any sort requires innovation, adapting prices does not. so what i'm saying is evolution of companies or markets requires innovation. something the current scenario totally lacks.

to be honest, the price "gouging" doesn't look like any innovation at all. if that's all americans know how to do, i'd be rather surprised to see any good come. this is also the lowest common demoninator type of adaptation. this is seeing the pile of whatever-it-is and then dog piling on top of it. not exactly the greatest of survival of the fittest tests.

of course there are capitalistic benefits to the current scenario, like companies make more by doing less or doing the same... but it's not as if this is sustainable, which is another factor required by evolution. hopefully they'll put these monies to good use in the form of innovations, but this is not guaranteed. it's short sighted to laud them so at this point. i think it's wiser to say, we'll see.

Black Majik
05-21-2009, 9:46 AM
So you buy stuff off gunbroker, and resell it to Californians with the CWS markup?

Does it really matter though? I only ask because a consumer could easily buy that stag on gunbroker instead of at the local shop.

If CWS buys that STAG at $895, sells it for $1500, why would it be CWS fault for making money. It should be the consumer's fault for paying $1500 at CWS than $895 on gunbroker.

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 9:47 AM
So you buy stuff off gunbroker, and resell it to Californians with the CWS markup?

If that's what we need for stock....yes....

Plus it's gotta be routed through TEXAS...etc....

Sometimes when you see a gun at our shop or tables...it's gone through a distro and TWO other FFLs before....YOU...see it for SALE.....

As the industry catches up and we get more of our stuff direct our pricing structure will reflect that.....simple....

If the market continues to rage....than so be it....

trinydex
05-21-2009, 9:50 AM
As for the shop, well heck, if they can get $2 g's for a Stag 2H then more power to them. This IS America after all. I just didn't want to see an AR newbie get ripped off.

i don't QUITE understand this mentality... interesting that the example i'll use plays off your sn.

should we encourage conning? if you can convince someone to give you their life savings, say grandma jones... more power to ya? if you can convince someone to hand over twice as much when they need something in a pinch, SHOULD you?

if you're dying of a gun shot wound and i have a hemeostat... should i offer it to you for the signed contract of everything you own? make you sign it in your own blood and thumbprint before i hand it over?

Gator Monroe
05-21-2009, 9:52 AM
If that's what we need for stock....yes....

Plus it's gotta be routed through TEXAS...etc....

Sometimes when you see a gun at our shop or tables...it's gone through a distro and TWO other FFLs before....YOU...see it for SALE.....

As the industry catches up and we get more of our stuff direct our pricing structure will reflect that.....simple....

If the market continues to rage....than so be it....

the market needs an influx (bigger imports) of Eastern European Cold war weapons like the Soviet bloc Handguns, Eastern European SKS's & VZ52/58, BULK AMMO, military acessories and Firearm parts & kits, to take some heat of the BRD stress!

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 9:52 AM
Does it really matter though? I only ask because a consumer could easily buy that stag on gunbroker instead of at the local shop.

If CWS buys that STAG at $895, sells it for $1500, why would it be CWS fault for making money. It should be the consumer's fault for paying $1500 at CWS than $895 on gunbroker.

Of course, talk with your money and walk away! But this thread is about "anyone else tired of getting ripped off by cali shops" I want a straight answer of why in this case CWS, an obviously popular California store tries/has too charge over $1500 on something where one can buy on the auctions for $900. I want a clear answer.

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 10:00 AM
If that's what we need for stock....yes....

Plus it's gotta be routed through TEXAS...etc....

Sometimes when you see a gun at our shop or tables...it's gone through a distro and TWO other FFLs before....YOU...see it for SALE.....

As the industry catches up and we get more of our stuff direct our pricing structure will reflect that.....simple....

If the market continues to rage....than so be it....

But every gunshop has operating costs and other gunshops still offer the same STAG you were selling at over $1500 at around $900-$950. A few hundred bucks more is reasonable, but your over $500+ difference.

trinydex
05-21-2009, 10:03 AM
Seriously, take a step back and realize how elitist and snobby some of you sound. There is no need to bad mouth people who have money and want to spend it. Please by all means educate your friends and others on how to get a good deal. Just don't insult them while you are at it with all of this name calling. And understand, some people have more money than time or Internet knowledge. They don't want to shop around for hours, they want it and they want it now. Despite your cries that these people are idiots, they are not. They just have more money than you.

Maybe that is why we have all of the name calling. Maybe what we are witnessing here is true class struggle.

this is sound, one stop shopping is a premium that many are willing to pay for. this is also an innovation that cannot be reproduced by the internet, forums, knowledge or anything else less than starting a shop of your own.

slick_711
05-21-2009, 10:06 AM
Of course, talk with your money and walk away! But this thread is about "anyone else tired of getting ripped off by cali shops" I want a straight answer of why in this case CWS, an obviously popular California store tries/has too charge over $1500 on something where one can buy on the auctions for $900. I want a clear answer.

A) Because they can. It's capitalism. People will pay it.

B) Because they have expenses and overhead FAR above and beyond what that guy on gunbroker does. Do you expect CWS to buy it off Gunbroker for $900, transport it to CA, and sell it to you at a gun show for $950? How will they pay their expenses, fees, transportation, let alone salaries?

When parts are available they get them direct. They mark them up a bit to make their necessary income, and you buy them without complaint. Now times are rough, guns & parts & ammo are hardly available. CWS (and all the other shops) are finding things wherever they can. Which often means somewhere other than dealer direct, and at a higher price. So now you expect CWS to not make any money just because their cost went up? Didn't ANY of you take Econ 101 in high school? Go read a textbook. Maybe by the time you've grasped the concept the prices will have fallen to pre-Obama regularity.

I used CWS as the model here but they aren't the shop I have in mind. Actually, I'm sure this could be roughly applied to all the shops at the moment.

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 10:15 AM
B) Because they have expenses and overhead FAR above and beyond what that guy on gunbroker does. Do you expect CWS to buy it off Gunbroker for $900, transport it to CA, and sell it to you at a gun show for $950? How will they pay their expenses, fees, transportation, let alone salaries?

I used CWS as the model here but they aren't the shop I have in mind. Actually, I'm sure this could be roughly applied to all the shops at the moment.

Here is the auction again for the STAG

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=129511800

Here is the seller's brick and mortar store.

L & A Firearms
1704 W Main StUnion City,TN38261-1548

Hey, everyone needs to make money, but being a rational person, I'm pretty sure L&A Firearms didn't put up a $895 buy it now price on their gunbroker auction if he was losing money on the transaction. And that $900-$1000 price for STAG AR's isn't unique, you can find many auctions in that price range.

Black Majik
05-21-2009, 10:19 AM
Of course, talk with your money and walk away! But this thread is about "anyone else tired of getting ripped off by cali shops" I want a straight answer of why in this case CWS, an obviously popular California store tries/has too charge over $1500 on something where one can buy on the auctions for $900. I want a clear answer.

Quite honestly, CWS doesn't owe any of us an answer regarding how or why they price their guns at what they do.

Pure speculation on my part, but it probably comes down to "Because they can and people buy it."

Why should they only price it at 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, if they can sell it at 1500.

Also, I'm quite sure operating costs and fees are a lot cheaper in TN than it is in CA. California is ridiculously expensive when it comes to running a small business.

Arteel
05-21-2009, 10:25 AM
Simple solution, don't buy!

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 10:28 AM
Of course, talk with your money and walk away! But this thread is about "anyone else tired of getting ripped off by cali shops" I want a straight answer of why in this case CWS, an obviously popular California store tries/has too charge over $1500 on something where one can buy on the auctions for $900. I want a clear answer.

You have a clear answer....you're not listening.....

If everything was equal and STAG shipped rifles directly to CA....it wouldn't be an issue....THIS IS CA...NOT TX or TN

There wouldn't be any bullet buttons....

CALGUNS would still be an obscure website....

There wouldn't be 10/30 mags.....weird PS-90 kits...on and on....

There isn't such a thing as a pure factory off-list rifle.....in CALIFRONIA...

There are tons of hoops and add-on dodads.....strip and ship....lotta hands on the rifle before you see it.....

Plus with the market today....it's even tougher...

Hey thanks for listening...

missiontrails
05-21-2009, 10:39 AM
I was a complainer a few months ago. However, after thinking about this, the logic is simple. Once we get back to a point where EVERY gun vendor EVERYWHERE can place reasonable volume orders to fullfill their local markets demand, then pricing will be normal and competive. But when a CA vendor needs to pay close to normal retail for rifles just so they can stock their shelves because they are buying from other out of state vendors/retailers, of course CA guy will need to sell those rifles for more. The guy on gunbroker with the $900 Stag rifles probably ordered them 8 months ago. The CA retailer will also receive orders placed months ago, but my no means enough to satisfy local demand. The CA guys are not going to sell the rifles they get direct from the manufacturer for one price, and the ones they buy from other dealers for another price. The CA guys will need to sell all of them for the higher price to keep pricing consistent. Once ALL rifles come directly from the manufacturer, then the price level can come down accross the board.

MoabFJ
05-21-2009, 10:42 AM
I guess this is where the noob raises his hand..
I bought my first AR from CWS at the Cow Palace a few weeks ago.
Yes I paid $1499 for a CAR-15 I now realize I could have had cheaper. Truthfully I never thought I would have an AR in Cali. I had seen the versions with magazines attached to the lowers and had no interest. I did not expect to buy anything really, but as I pass the CWS booth, look at all of the AR's with collapsible stocks, flash hiders, etc. My wife said "Happy early birthday"!
Afterwards, I did all of the research I normally do pre-purchase.
I am very happy with the CMMG AR I picked up as it seems to have all of the goodies I would have wanted, if I had known what I was looking for.
It was a HELL of an impulse buy, admittedly this was a combo of: I had always wanted one / damm the gun hating Demo's are everywhere now.
Thanks to this forum, my next purchase will be handled a little differently.

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 10:42 AM
You have a clear answer....you're not listening.....

If everything was equal and STAG shipped rifles directly to CA....it wouldn't be an issue....THIS IS CA...NOT TX or TN

There wouldn't be any bullet buttons....

CALGUNS would still be an obscure website....

There wouldn't be 10/30 mags.....weird PS-90 kits...on and on....

There isn't such a thing as a pure factory off-list rifle.....in CALIFRONIA...

There are tons of hoops and add-on dodads.....strip and ship....lotta hands on the rifle before you see it.....

Plus with the market today....it's even tougher...

Hey thanks for listening...

How much were you selling your STAG's at the Ontario gunshow?

stormy_clothing
05-21-2009, 10:45 AM
first of all there is alot of fud - a store offering ar's online is still a store who has overhead, if they were smart enough to have less overhead that's business.

because xxx also is a store that sells online and has more overhead and has to cover it is not the issue.

a good example is the panther sportical, msrp is 700.00 that means there is already a sizeable dealer profit built in. Unless someone wants to lie there *** off and say that a cali dealer pays more for dpms than a nevada dealer than apples are apples. Lan world makes the same profit as xxx who charges extra for cali parts, even making a profit on those and no one thinks thats wrong.

so xxx can't keep them in stock and being a black rifle dealer is there whole business plan, they buy from another party at full pop and add 200 on top, ok that's capitalism. I really have no problem with that at all.

it's when I'm led to believe they will be illegal soon, dpms charges cali shops more, some law has been passed taxing or that at 1400 dollars I'm not getting market oportunitism than fukem. that is an actual price I was quoted a month ago btw.

they have gone down the path of lies and mistrust.

Will I feel bad if some shop goes out of business because they built up everything they had on a single market and then began lying to cover there cost of short inventory - no

I felt bad when rancho guns closed, they always charged market prices - they just never lied about it.

I think the reality that I am seeing is clearly the younger people used to competing with an online market place are increasingly flexible and will thrive, pompous jerks with superior mentality will die out.

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 10:54 AM
You know, my biggest heart felt wishes go out to the people who bought a $900 WASR-10's at the Ontario gunshow.

CSACANNONEER
05-21-2009, 11:01 AM
first of all there is alot of fud - a store offering ar's online is still a store who has overhead, if they were smart enough to have less overhead that's business.

because xxx also is a store that sells online and has more overhead and has to cover it is not the issue.

a good example is the panther sportical, msrp is 700.00 that means there is already a sizeable dealer profit built in. Unless someone wants to lie there *** off and say that a cali dealer pays more for dpms than a nevada dealer than apples are apples. Lan world makes the same profit as xxx

so xxx can't keep them in stock and being a black rifle dealer is there whole business plan, they buy from another party at full pop and add 200 on top, ok that's capitalism. I really have no problem with that at all.

it's when I'm led to believe they will be illegal soon, dpms charges cali shops more, some law has been passed taxing or that at 1400 dollars I'm not getting market oportunitism than fukem.

they have gone down the path of lies and mistrust.

Will I feel bad if some shop goes out of business because they built up everything they had on a single market and then began lying to cover there cost of short inventory - no

I felt bad when rancho guns closed, they always charged market prices - they just never lied about it.

I think the reality that I am seeing is clearly the younger people used to competing with an online market place are increasingly flexible and will thrive, pompous jerks with superior mentality will die out.

So, when is your shop opening? I promise that I'll spend lots of money there as long as you promise to provide goods at a price lower than anyone else! I've traveled close to two hours each way to buy from CWS back in Dec. '04 or Jan '05 and I was happy to pay his prices. Of course, I've visited the new shop a couple of times and since I don't need anything bad enough to pay his current prices, I usually walk out without making a purchase. But, I don't think you fully realize that the MSRP and the true current market price are two different things both of which can be regional. Yet, I believe that CWS prices their items the same whether you buy them in CA or TX. Maybe you should ask yourself why anyone in TX would buy from CWS? Maybe, their prices are not as out of line as you think. Again, their prices tend to be a little high for me but, I'm a cheap SOB who doesn't NEED to buy another gun anyway. Please, open your shop soon!

Sgt Raven
05-21-2009, 11:05 AM
LOL don't confuse us! :D

I know that's not true, in late 05', early 06' we either humped it to Taft or waited out in Hector's/Michelle's garage to buy $225 lowers. <=== OMG price gouge!!! :eek: :)


Wes and CWS were some of the 1st but there were others before them. Ben Cannon and his JP was before Wes.

Black Majik
05-21-2009, 11:09 AM
Wes and CWS were some of the 1st but there were others before them. Ben Cannon and his JP was before Wes.

Very true! I was thinking dealers. :)

Futurecollector
05-21-2009, 11:10 AM
Stormy, and WC, If you guys get together and open up a shop Ill work weekends for MIN wage! and help out where ever I can, I dont see why not lets do this!

elSquid
05-21-2009, 11:25 AM
You know, my biggest heart felt wishes go out to the people who bought a $900 WASR-10's at the Ontario gunshow.

My biggest heartfelt wishes go out to those who have lost their jobs and homes in the current economy; to kids struck with terminal diseases before they've had a chance at life; to families living in impoverished countries overseas who barely exist from day to day, skirting starvation.

Although... I just paid $300 for a case of Wolf 7.62x39 that went for $200 pre-Obama.

Maybe I'm the real victim in all of this?

-- Michael

dfletcher
05-21-2009, 11:30 AM
LOL. $90 Kaiser Lowers. Please tell me where you can find them for $90, I will buy some more. $700 ARs? Again, let me know your source.

How much longer until we see another gouging thread? I wonder if we can start bets in Vegas on it.

Are these any good?
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24329&title=AR-15%20S-15%20LOWER%20RECEIVER

They're in stock, my C & R discount prices them at $96.00.

Sgt Raven
05-21-2009, 11:35 AM
No one. And either quote words of mine claiming as much or STFU please. I don't like words being put into my mouth any more than you do.

But hey, if you champion the rights of rude SOBs who price gouge, then I guess you know something I don't. I presume you've never shopped at CWS, or else you'd recognize the cold, indifferent "GTFO of my shop because I have fatter cats to cheese money from" attitude that they piss all over your face.

I quoted your words and if you were PRISON RAPED by CWS then they must have used some kind of FORCE on you.

I've known and bought from Hector since the old Cold War Relics days and always been treated right.

Maybe you need to drive to Rite Aid and get another bottle of Midol 'cause you're PMSing.

CSACANNONEER
05-21-2009, 11:36 AM
Stormy, and WC, If you guys get together and open up a shop Ill work weekends for MIN wage! and help out where ever I can, I dont see why not lets do this!

They won't be able to afford any payrole! You'll have to donate your time and help them pay the utility bills. But, it still sounds like a fun extra job. I'm in too!

Futurecollector
05-21-2009, 11:44 AM
They won't be able to afford any payrole! You'll have to donate your time and help them pay the utility bills. But, it still sounds like a fun extra job. I'm in too!

Hey They can start out as a Table top FFL, and then go on to a cheap building from there, They can pay me in free FFL transfers lol,

wcnones
05-21-2009, 11:45 AM
WC, someone suggested you start a shop.

Do it. Get your FFL, get the necessary CA permits. The necessary local permits. Pay the fees to keep them. Get your necessary insurance. Get a few decent employees (I'll come work for you if you can match my wages). Then see how long you can stay in business in today's market without raising your prices a little to compensate for A) prices being raised on you and B) lack of stock and thus, lack of sales.

You're looking at this as though it is one sided. It's not.

Please do not treat me as if I am stupid. And please, for Christ's sake, READ WHAT I'VE POSTED BEFORE RESPONDING!

Capitalism: I won't bash it. CWS can charge whatever the hell they want. I won't call the cops or cry in mommy's arms at night. Hell, I would even consider purchasing items from them if they weren't shatty people.

Yeah - SHATTY PEOPLE. Give them a call, ask if something AR related is in stock. You'll get about 4 breaths of an uninspired teen's crap response in return. Next, drive over there. When you walk in, smile at someone behind the counter. If whomever behind the counter has recognized that you exist, they won't recognize the smile and won't have any idea how to deal with it. You will likely get a stupid tard grimace in return. Now, ask a question. Preferably one that requires a bit of intelligence and education behind it. You know, like: "Hey, what lower should I buy?" Once the staff is done throwing poo and primate feces at you, see if they are happy to answer your question. They won't be because you've interrupted whatever intra-employee conversation they were having.

Businesses exist to make money. I get that. I'm not 12. STFU with this "Gee, maybe you should try to run a business" idiocy.

I'll pay over retail for something, but not if the seller needs daddy to take his belt off and whack the seller's behind a couple of times to re-instill whatever poorly taught manners gramma tried to pass on.

The folks at CWS are jackholes, plain and simple. Be a jerk and sell for cheap, you are good in my book. Be a sweetie-pie and overcharge, you'll hear no complaint from me. But act like a used car salesman and pick my pocket like a greedy NY Shellgame felon and I'll contribute to threads that spell your demise.

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 11:46 AM
My biggest heartfelt wishes go out to those who have lost their jobs and homes in the current economy; to kids struck with terminal diseases before they've had a chance at life; to families living in impoverished countries overseas who barely exist from day to day, skirting starvation.

Although... I just paid $300 for a case of Wolf 7.62x39 that went for $200 pre-Obama.

Maybe I'm the real victim in all of this?

-- Michael

http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/anim-hog-sad-violin-cry.gif

Futurecollector
05-21-2009, 11:46 AM
Are these any good?
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24329&title=AR-15%20S-15%20LOWER%20RECEIVER

They're in stock, my C & R discount prices them at $96.00.

Im in for one? group buy? lol

wcnones
05-21-2009, 11:48 AM
I quoted your words and if you were PRISON RAPED by CWS then they must have used some kind of FORCE on you.

I've known and bought from Hector since the old Cold War Relics days and always been treated right.

Maybe you need to drive to Rite Aid and get another bottle of Midol 'cause you're PMSing.


I didn't say I was prison raped. And I'm not on PMS, I'm just not caught up in the odd and all-to-common "OMG CWS is so super!" ether that some of you have fogging up your brain.

wcnones
05-21-2009, 11:50 AM
http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/anim-hog-sad-violin-cry.gif

hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahhah I don't care what side you are on that is one funny pic.

wcnones
05-21-2009, 11:52 AM
Stormy, and WC, If you guys get together and open up a shop Ill work weekends for MIN wage! and help out where ever I can, I dont see why not lets do this!

I could never run a gun shop. I have manners and understand the basics of customer service. I'm allowed in the retail FFL crowd. Ask tenpercenthominid if you don't understand. He's aware of the required levels of daftness and venom needed to sell guns at retail outlets.

Futurecollector
05-21-2009, 11:54 AM
I went in there and the where A-holes,
I went to Ade's in Orange, Andrew, steve and Pat all told me the best places to buy AR-related stuff, at the best price, told me how much a transfer should be, and guess what they did it with a smile,
I went to OC Armory, and Mike talked to me for like 2 Hrs, setting me straight because I was such a Noob, lol and guess what he did so with a smile, and I was asking dumb questions that I didnt know, (whats an LPK, how does this lower work, etc etc.)
BSP, chris spent an hour explaning how the AR pistols work, and why they are legal, And not only was he smiling buy he was joking with me,
Gunnrunners, Kevin sits and talks to me everytime I go in there, I have only done transfers there but they are still good to me,

with that being said, I will buy stuff from those FFLs, I recomend them and Overall they are just great, now CWS, Ive been there once, and will never go Back, thats that and thats the end of it lol
Ill never go there again because of they where jerks and overall mean

TonyM
05-21-2009, 12:00 PM
This thread needs a lock so a couple guys can concentrate on reading the answers provided. Any store can price their items as they see fit, this is still the USA.

I'm curious if these people go into an upscale market and complain about the beef prices and tell the manager they can get a similar cut cheaper at WinCo/PakNSave/etc. Do they complain that Bevmo charges more for wine than Costco?

I was in the process of opening a shop just recently. I've got everything filled out, found a retail location, talked to a couple friends with shops and calculated the REAL cost of opening and running a store. I also have access to inventory lists for all the major distributors and can see stock levels. Inventory levels are low to none, prices are up. FFLs are pre-ordering for months in advance in hopes they will have inventory to sell.

CWS has an advantage here, they buy large quantities and can easily be bumped in priority for the shipments. They also have an FFL outside CA to prep any non-complaint firearms w/o waiting a month for a slow FFL to do it for them.

I decided to not open my store when all the numbers were in. I would work just about as many hours as I work now, 6-7 days a week for 12+ hours a day. I would have to charge prices that would have you calling me a gouger. When all would be said and done at the end of the month I would take about a 35% paycut over my current job.

If that was 30% more than I make now, I would think about doing it and dealing with all the guys on Macrobrew swill beer budgets that are hassling FFLs about champagne priced items most of them aren't really going to buy anyway.


Price a retail location (tell them you want to open a gun shop and see the reaction, I've done this...) and don't forget the hidden costs they don't advertise.
Price Insurance.
Look into getting the city to sign off.
Look into getting the DOJ to sign off.
ATF is pretty easy.
Price all the work you will need to retrofit your location (paint, signs, shelving, racks, safes, security system, labor, etc).
Look into credit card processors that allow you to take payments for weapons and their rates.
Look into energy costs for your location, A/C for a storeload of people is not cheap, at least not here.
Look into another couple phone lines for voice and fax.
Look into more internet access.
Checkout shipping supplies and what they cost when you have to use UPS/Fedex.
Price items for inventory.


This list isn't nearly done... there are also many headaches with timing out what you do and who you talk to and what you tell them... but this is all simple so far, right? :rolleyes:

Then, factor in that you need to have a pool of cash for operating costs day to day, I planted a money tree once but it didn't bear fruit. Now think about jerk customers that will do chargebacks on you just to try to get over on you, bad mouth you on the internet for being 20% more expensive than a FFL in Arkansas when you're paying well more than double what they do to run the business.

Maybe the FFLs should take all the ARF comments to Californians about "Just move" to heart and leave California and run a cheaper shop with more profit margin. Yeah, that would be great for all of us. When I "retire" from Tech and move out of California I'll revisit the idea of getting my FFL.

If you don't like the prices, don't buy. It's pretty simple really. Last year I bought over 30 guns retail. So far this year, the number is 4. It's not that I don't want more, I'm not buying because I don't like the prices on what I do want. Nobody is forcing me to buy at prices I don't like, and they shouldn't be forcing you either.

SP1200
05-21-2009, 12:02 PM
This is why I just spend a lot of time in CA but never fully moved there.

With my NV DL I get anything you can find in the net +$25 transfer fee from some old retired police officer working from his kitchen table!

Sgt Raven
05-21-2009, 12:09 PM
Just because demand is high does not mean a vendor is warranted in gouging. CWS can charge all they want for a rifle - if stupid ***tards line up to buy them then so be it. But when the dust settles (and it will, despite Wes' warnings that no ARs will ever again be produced), people will remember the vendors that played nice and the vendors that took advantage of uninformed buyers. You notice all the car dealers closing shop nowadays? The ones that still have lights on never added $5000 addendums to cars in high demand.

CWS - pay stupid prices and get crap additudes at no extra cost! Can't wait to see the Highland shop boarded up once all the mania has died out. I would feel differently if I got a smile with the sandpaper rod in my rear-end. But hell, if you're gonna prison rape me at least treat me like a human being.

Who held the gun to your head and made you buy any over priced items? What over priced item did you buy that you would have died without? Nothing from CWS and you weren't gouged. :TFH: :eek: :rolleyes:

No one. And either quote words of mine claiming as much or STFU please. I don't like words being put into my mouth any more than you do.

But hey, if you champion the rights of rude SOBs who price gouge, then I guess you know something I don't. I presume you've never shopped at CWS, or else you'd recognize the cold, indifferent "GTFO of my shop because I have fatter cats to cheese money from" attitude that they piss all over your face.

I quoted your words and if you were PRISON RAPED by CWS then they must have used some kind of FORCE on you.

I've known and bought from Hector since the old Cold War Relics days and always been treated right.

Maybe you need to drive to Rite Aid and get another bottle of Midol 'cause you're PMSing.

Please do not treat me as if I am stupid. And please, for Christ's sake, READ WHAT I'VE POSTED BEFORE RESPONDING!

Capitalism: I won't bash it. CWS can charge whatever the hell they want. I won't call the cops or cry in mommy's arms at night. Hell, I would even consider purchasing items from them if they weren't shatty people.

Yeah - SHATTY PEOPLE. Give them a call, ask if something AR related is in stock. You'll get about 4 breaths of an uninspired teen's crap response in return. Next, drive over there. When you walk in, smile at someone behind the counter. If whomever behind the counter has recognized that you exist, they won't recognize the smile and won't have any idea how to deal with it. You will likely get a stupid tard grimace in return. Now, ask a question. Preferably one that requires a bit of intelligence and education behind it. You know, like: "Hey, what lower should I buy?" Once the staff is done throwing poo and primate feces at you, see if they are happy to answer your question. They won't be because you've interrupted whatever intra-employee conversation they were having.

Businesses exist to make money. I get that. I'm not 12. STFU with this "Gee, maybe you should try to run a business" idiocy.

I'll pay over retail for something, but not if the seller needs daddy to take his belt off and whack the seller's behind a couple of times to re-instill whatever poorly taught manners gramma tried to pass on.

The folks at CWS are jackholes, plain and simple. Be a jerk and sell for cheap, you are good in my book. Be a sweetie-pie and overcharge, you'll hear no complaint from me. But act like a used car salesman and pick my pocket like a greedy NY Shellgame felon and I'll contribute to threads that spell your demise.


I didn't say I was prison raped. And I'm not on PMS, I'm just not caught up in the odd and all-to-common "OMG CWS is so super!" ether that some of you have fogging up your brain.

If you've had problems at CWS, then maybe you should look in the mirror, it may be you not them. :thumbsup:

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 12:10 PM
I went in there and the where A-holes,
I went to Ade's in Orange, Andrew, steve and Pat all told me the best places to buy AR-related stuff, at the best price, told me how much a transfer should be, and guess what they did it with a smile,
I went to OC Armory, and Mike talked to me for like 2 Hrs, setting me straight because I was such a Noob, lol and guess what he did so with a smile, and I was asking dumb questions that I didnt know, (whats an LPK, how does this lower work, etc etc.)
BSP, chris spent an hour explaning how the AR pistols work, and why they are legal, And not only was he smiling buy he was joking with me,
Gunnrunners, Kevin sits and talks to me everytime I go in there, I have only done transfers there but they are still good to me,

with that being said, I will buy stuff from those FFLs, I recomend them and Overall they are just great, now CWS, Ive been there once, and will never go Back, thats that and thats the end of it lol
Ill never go there again because of they where jerks and overall mean


Well sorry you don't like us.......it's true sometimes we don't have hours to chat w/ one customer.....our store is usually packed....if you come around in the afternoons.....chatting is more possible....

We have hired on a few more guys to help us out......

hoozaru
05-21-2009, 12:15 PM
Turners was selling stainless Mini-14 for $799.99 two month ago.
Got their latest ad today, the new "Everyday Low Price" is $899.99. :D

elSquid
05-21-2009, 12:19 PM
http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/anim-hog-sad-violin-cry.gif

I need a hug.

-- Michael

wcnones
05-21-2009, 12:56 PM
If you've had problems at CWS, then maybe you should look in the mirror, it may be you not them. :thumbsup:

Mirrors break when I look into them.

But check this out: my iTrader rating. I do .000001% of the business that CWS does. Yet I gather that I have more positive feedback than they do from people who know the gun market. I'm not an a-hole. Ask any calgunner who has met me in person. I like being nice!

Nessal
05-21-2009, 12:58 PM
IMO, I think it comes down to a group of gun owners that don't want new entrants to get "ripped-off". They have the "we are all on the same side" mentality. I'm sure we all want everybody to join the 2A crowd but it leaves a sour taste in their mouth when they see what these noobs have to pay to play. We want to look out for each other.

Just think of how a noob would feel if he paid $1700 for an AR then joins Calguns and find out how much it REALLY costs. I bet that person would never buy from that shop again.

These businesses have every means to charge WHATEVER they want. It's their business. I have no problems with shops selling AR's for $1700. However, I would be taken back if they told a noob that it is a unbeatable deal when we all know the truth.

sd1023x
05-21-2009, 1:11 PM
IMO, I think it comes down to a group of gun owners that don't want new entrants to get "ripped-off". They have the "we are all on the same side" mentality. I'm sure we all want everybody to join the 2A crowd but it leaves a sour taste in their mouth when they see what these noobs have to pay to play. We want to look out for each other.

Just think of how a noob would feel if he paid $1700 for an AR then joins Calguns and find out how much it REALLY costs. I bet that person would never buy from that shop again.

These businesses have every means to charge WHATEVER they want. It's their business. I have no problems with shops selling AR's for $1700. However, I would be taken back if they told a noob that it is a unbeatable deal when we all know the truth.

Amen:thumbsup:

Gunaria
05-21-2009, 1:31 PM
Just throwing this up here;

Definitions of elitist on the Web:

someone who believes in rule by an elite group
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn (http://www.google.com/url?&q=http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%3Fs%3Delitist&ei=M7kVSrTHH5SS9QTKsZDHAg&sa=X&oi=define&ct=&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNFJpsrg1AP0tb5jfnTVEe3i4LmkHA)
Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite -- a select group of people with outstanding ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitist (http://www.google.com/url?&q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitist&ei=M7kVSrTHH5SS9QTKsZDHAg&sa=X&oi=define&ct=&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNHaltcUnIupKSOc0g1T8WcDCHyFtw)
elitism - the attitude that society should be governed by an elite group of individuals
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn (http://www.google.com/url?&q=http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%3Fs%3Delitism&ei=M7kVSrTHH5SS9QTKsZDHAg&sa=X&oi=define&ct=&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNHghE36bQSgrAEl5t9mCk2Pa-9McA)
An elitist genetic algorithm is one that always retains in the population the best individual found so far. Tournament selection is naturally elitist.
www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~wbl/thesis.glossary.html (http://www.google.com/url?&q=http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~wbl/thesis.glossary.html&ei=M7kVSrTHH5SS9QTKsZDHAg&sa=X&oi=define&ct=&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNH-ovP2oN_Ej5AkGM90VF0zTVn8pQ)
elitism - The position that society depends on a particular class in order to flourish. Classes might include intellectual, social, or cultural categories.
www.slp.duq.edu/rentschler/ETHIC/Vocabulary.htm (http://www.google.com/url?&q=http://www.slp.duq.edu/rentschler/ETHIC/Vocabulary.htm&ei=M7kVSrTHH5SS9QTKsZDHAg&sa=X&oi=define&ct=&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNHIXewiJUPelUuFxdv0iAVLgedkSA)

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 1:37 PM
IMO, I think it comes down to a group of gun owners that don't want new entrants to get "ripped-off". They have the "we are all on the same side" mentality. I'm sure we all want everybody to join the 2A crowd but it leaves a sour taste in their mouth when they see what these noobs have to pay to play. We want to look out for each other.

Just think of how a noob would feel if he paid $1700 for an AR then joins Calguns and find out how much it REALLY costs. I bet that person would never buy from that shop again.

These businesses have every means to charge WHATEVER they want. It's their business. I have no problems with shops selling AR's for $1700. However, I would be taken back if they told a noob that it is a unbeatable deal when we all know the truth.

Our ARs start out around 1099.......

These only last for minutes....maybe an hour in the shop or at a show....

Lowers at our SOCAL SHOP at 109.99....on SALE....

STAG buttstocks at 85 bucks.....

UPPERS and LPKs...not around....

We are def not the cheapest......we also aren't the most expensive...

wcnones
05-21-2009, 1:39 PM
Our ARs start out around 1099.......

These only last for minutes....maybe an hour in the shop or at a show....

Lowers at our SOCAL SHOP at 109.99....on SALE....

STAG buttstocks at 85 bucks.....

UPPERS and LPKs...not around....

We are def not the cheapest......we also aren't the most expensive...


JUST


BE


NICE!

And you'll probably get my business.

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 1:41 PM
JUST


BE


NICE!

And you'll probably get my business.

You know that's very hard for me to be......ask anyone who works for me.....

If my guys aren't nice....LMK their names.....

supersonic
05-21-2009, 1:45 PM
I have completely STOPPED buying for this reason alone. I agree that the price gouging is leaving a VERY bad taste in MY mouth (and I CAN'T be the only one!), and because I have no "urgent needs" right now, I've put a complete "NO more guns / ammo & accessories" rule in my life that is, at this time, indefinite. When I walk into a local gun store and see a 5.56stripped lower - that I bought a year ago for $90 - with a $200++ price tag on it, I just get a really comfortable feeling knowing 2 things: ONE: I happen to have $THOUSANDS$ & $THOUSANDS$ more in the bank right now just because I was 'at the right place at the right time':rolleyes: , and TWO: I'm sure happy that guitars aren't affected by this utter nonsense! (in fact, with the $$$$ I saved by NOT buying anymore guns I will quite possibly be purchasing a beautiful Cherry Sunburst Gibson Les Paul Standard w/ AAA-grade bookmatched flame maple top!!!) Looks like the score here will likely be Guitarcenter - $2.5K , Gougers - "ZERO-POINT-ZERO".Hehehe!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

wcnones
05-21-2009, 1:46 PM
You know that's very hard for me to be......ask anyone who works for me.....

If my guys aren't nice....LMK their names.....

Dunno names and don't wanna throw folks under the bus. But toss some kahlua into their morning coffee and respike at noon without their knowledge. It would get a smile or two out of them which could make all the difference in the world. As long as customers don't feel like they are bothering you when they come in...most of us love the stuff you have on your shelf and we get enough grief from our wives/gfs/etc. Sucks to get indifference from fellow hobbyists. I know you guys are surrounded by them all day, but fake it at least. Makes us feel welcome there.

Nessal
05-21-2009, 1:47 PM
Our ARs start out around 1099.......

These only last for minutes....maybe an hour in the shop or at a show....

Lowers at our SOCAL SHOP at 109.99....on SALE....

STAG buttstocks at 85 bucks.....

UPPERS and LPKs...not around....

We are def not the cheapest......we also aren't the most expensive...



I wasn't refering to your shop. I was just speaking in general. I have never set foot in your shop before but I have been to your table at the gun show. You guys have a good supply which I can give a :thumbsup: to. But you can definately work on customer service. I've been to many cow palace shows and only once was I helped by anyone that was sincere in helping. It was some older asian gentleman, sorry I forgot his name.

I can understand how crazy it can get at the shows but I usually go when things die down a lot...usually at the end of the day when things are more manageable. I remember one time a noob was messing with the AUG Styer clone and dropped it. I had to yell at him for you guys because the salesman didn't want to. LOL.

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 1:58 PM
I can understand how crazy it can get at the shows but I usually go when things die down a lot...usually at the end of the day when things are more manageable. I remember one time a noob was messing with the AUG Styer clone and dropped it. I had to yell at him for you guys because the salesman didn't want to. LOL.

The Asian guy is our xfer dealer....can't account for him....but he's usually cool.....

THX for looking out for my goods.......or someones rifle....:thumbsup:

gn3hz3ku1*
05-21-2009, 2:01 PM
these prices are true.. maybe people are getting it mixed up with your 400 dollar lower a few months back.

Our ARs start out around 1099.......

These only last for minutes....maybe an hour in the shop or at a show....

Lowers at our SOCAL SHOP at 109.99....on SALE....

STAG buttstocks at 85 bucks.....

UPPERS and LPKs...not around....

We are def not the cheapest......we also aren't the most expensive...

zman
05-21-2009, 2:42 PM
Yet, I believe that CWS prices their items the same whether you buy them in CA or TX.

That's what I thought too. I had to drive a 180-mile round trip a few weeks ago hoping to snatch a complete LMT lower with SOPMOD & 2-stg trigger for $599 or so (it's $639 today). The guy showed me a complete LMT lower with SOPMOD & std trigger for.......over $800 out the door. Close to a grand if I wanted a 2-stage put in. The guy said that's just how it is and that they are priced differently from the Texas store.

I wasted time and gas :(

DeepSeaDouble
05-21-2009, 2:46 PM
I can't bring myself to real all of yet another gouge thread, even though I generally like to read them.

However, it's simple. As one members signature here says, don't feed the gougers!

I haven't yet, and when the bubble bursts, I see some very interesting things happening.

CSACANNONEER
05-21-2009, 2:53 PM
That's what I thought too. I had to drive a 180-mile round trip a few weeks ago hoping to snatch a complete LMT lower with SOPMOD & 2-stg trigger for $599 or so (it's $639 today). The guy showed me a complete LMT lower with SOPMOD & std trigger for.......over $800 out the door. Close to a grand if I wanted a 2-stage put in. The guy said that's just how it is and that they are priced differently from the Texas store.

I wasted time and gas :(

Then, I stand corrected!

DeepSeaDouble
05-21-2009, 3:02 PM
And understand, some people have more money than time or Internet knowledge. They don't want to shop around for hours, they want it and they want it now. Despite your cries that these people are idiots, they are not. They just have more money than you.




I do concede you have some points but this one is mainly off. Althought you did say some people.

You have not true idea how much money all or some of these "elitist" people have or don't have. Heck I have a "friend" that makes pretty good money that spends time going in to Wal Marts everyday just to make a few extra bucks reselling/gouging ammo on the internet.

I know/have known people that make pretty decent money that just won't pay top dollar or get gouged, up to and including millionaires.

Heck, my grandpas best friend was a millionaire and he was one of the cheapest bastards I ever knew :)

I know he would have shopped around and not gotten priced gouged on an AR, ammo, ect.

How you think they stayed rich? haha

I lied to myself, I couldn't help but go back and read the rest of the thread. I'm sure it will be locked soon anyhow.

ke6guj
05-21-2009, 3:03 PM
Then, I stand corrected!IIRC, Hector has stated that each branch of the company, gun shows, CA store, website are run separately. Each branch must meet specific numbers, and have different costs involved, and as such, pricing is not always the same between the different locals.

For instance, an item shown on the website would be sold from the TX location, and would not have the expenses involved in reshipping to the CA store, so it would be cheaper online.

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 3:07 PM
these prices are true.. maybe people are getting it mixed up with your 400 dollar lower a few months back.

Maybe my 2000 dollar MAGPUL LWR......

Or my 10,000 dollar MAGPUL/SHRIKE......

We vary prices from day to day....week to week.....

Just depends on where the stuff comes from.....

DeepSeaDouble
05-21-2009, 3:09 PM
What the hell is up with Calgunners looking forward to shops closing? Where you gonna do your shopping then? Online?

Plus, Cold War has a shop in TX too. I'm sure they're doing plenty fine. Them having a shop here in CA is doing us a favor. !

I'd rather never buy another gun or round of ammo in CA then support some of the gouge type dealers ever again. I've already decided never to shop again in 1-2 shops, including ones I've dropped $1000's in before, and I have receipts to prove it.

People like me keep the gun industry going year after year, not noobs and panic buyers following a fad and buy an overpriced lower or two and some gouge ammo.

I also wanted to add to be fair I have never done business with any of the dealers posting in this thread so I have no personal knowledge of their shops, dealings, ect.
Yes I'm sure CWS opened up a shop in CA just to do us a favor :rolleyes:

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 3:10 PM
IIRC, Hector has stated that each branch of the company, gun shows, CA store, website are run separately. Each branch must meet specific numbers, and have different costs involved, and as such, pricing is not always the same between the different locals.

For instance, an item shown on the website would be sold from the TX location, and would not have the expenses involved in reshipping to the CA store, so it would be cheaper online.

True......good memory...

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 3:14 PM
Yes I'm sure CWS opened up a shop in CA just to do us a favor :rolleyes:

Actually.....I am from SOCAL, so it was good to spend more time in CA.....less time on the road.....

We actually opened a shop cause the ATF and local municipalities.....couldn't come to an agreement......politics, that's another story....;)

Futurecollector
05-21-2009, 3:16 PM
Our ARs start out around 1099.......

These only last for minutes....maybe an hour in the shop or at a show....

Lowers at our SOCAL SHOP at 109.99....on SALE....

STAG buttstocks at 85 bucks.....

UPPERS and LPKs...not around....

We are def not the cheapest......we also aren't the most expensive...

Hmmm, well ive been in your shop 2 times and have only ever seen lowers at around 250.00.... If you guys get any lower in at 110.00 I will go in a buy one just to do business with you guys, I also understand that you can't BS with customers but some of the guys where just rude to me and my friend, I went in on Nov 6. My Bday and saw the OLLs and I asked which one would be the best, and the guy just kinda blew me off and said any of them, and started taping his finger,

zman
05-21-2009, 3:27 PM
Hmmm, well ive been in your shop 2 times and have only ever seen lowers at around 250.00.... If you guys get any lower in at 110.00 I will go in a buy one just to do business with you guys, I also understand that you can't BS with customers but some of the guys where just rude to me and my friend, I went in on Nov 6. My Bday and saw the OLLs and I asked which one would be the best, and the guy just kinda blew me off and said any of them, and started taping his finger,

You may have to go now.......assuming they have enough :)

LAR Grizzly for $109
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=185830

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 3:28 PM
Hmmm, well ive been in your shop 2 times and have only ever seen lowers at around 250.00.... If you guys get any lower in at 110.00 I will go in a buy one just to do business with you guys, I also understand that you can't BS with customers but some of the guys where just rude to me and my friend, I went in on Nov 6. My Bday and saw the OLLs and I asked which one would be the best, and the guy just kinda blew me off and said any of them, and started taping his finger,

Well they are 109.99 this weekend so get going......

It's possible that there was only some at 250 at the moment in time....we ususally try and keep them stocked at 169......

We have a saying any lower you get from CWS is the best......

No one carries more ARs than us in the entire country....I try not to sway guys but try and find out what they want to do or what kind of build they actually intend to make....

Futurecollector
05-21-2009, 3:34 PM
Well they are 109.99 this weekend so get going......

It's possible that there was only some at 250 at the moment in time....we ususally try and keep them stocked at 169......

We have a saying any lower you get from CWS is the best......

No one carries more ARs than us in the entire country....I try not to sway guys but try and find out what they want to do or what kind of build they actually intend to make....

Well ill take you up on this, i mean I know its not a special, but Ill go tomorow, or maybe sat, (If you guys still have them in stock that is.)

Sgt Raven
05-21-2009, 3:39 PM
I do concede you have some points but this one is mainly off. Althought you did say some people.

You have not true idea how much money all or some of these "elitist" people have or don't have. Heck I have a "friend" that makes pretty good money that spends time going in to Wal Marts everyday just to make a few extra bucks reselling/gouging ammo on the internet.
...........snip................
How you think they stayed rich? haha

I lied to myself, I couldn't help but go back and read the rest of the thread. I'm sure it will be locked soon anyhow.

That's isn't gouging, thats how capitalism works! :eek: :rolleyes:

Richy
05-21-2009, 3:47 PM
Maybe my 2000 dollar MAGPUL LWR......

Or my 10,000 dollar MAGPUL/SHRIKE......

We vary prices from day to day....week to week.....

Just depends on where the stuff comes from.....

10k Magpul Shrike???

I've got an MPLA as well as a Shrike, didn't cost 10k chief. . .

Sgt Raven
05-21-2009, 3:56 PM
10k Magpul Shrike???

I've got an MPLA as well as a Shrike, didn't cost 10k chief. . .

:useless:

hoozaru
05-21-2009, 4:12 PM
$110 Grizzly lower deal is hard to resist

zman
05-21-2009, 4:13 PM
10k Magpul Shrike???

I've got an MPLA as well as a Shrike, didn't cost 10k chief. . .

Oooh yes I have seen that 10k Magpul lower-Shrike upper rifle and it is super nice! :thumbsup:

In defense of Pirate though, common sense tells me that it is priced "not to sell" if you get what I mean.....more of a show piece. It's one of those if you are truly serious in buying it, I am sure CWS' price will go down.

gn3hz3ku1*
05-21-2009, 4:14 PM
Maybe my 2000 dollar MAGPUL LWR......

Or my 10,000 dollar MAGPUL/SHRIKE......

We vary prices from day to day....week to week.....

Just depends on where the stuff comes from.....

uhh no this is your 400 dollar stag stripped lower that people made a post about... you posted in that thread too but i think it got locked so i cant link it here...

where did you get the stags to ask 400 a piece?

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 5:06 PM
uhh no this is your 400 dollar stag stripped lower that people made a post about... you posted in that thread too but i think it got locked so i cant link it here...

where did you get the stags to ask 400 a piece?

Only lower we sold at 400 was a Noveske........oh, and we have a few NOVESKE blems left at SOCAL for 199.....but not many....

PIRATE14
05-21-2009, 5:10 PM
Oooh yes I have seen that 10k Magpul lower-Shrike upper rifle and it is super nice! :thumbsup:

In defense of Pirate though, common sense tells me that it is priced "not to sell" if you get what I mean.....more of a show piece. It's one of those if you are truly serious in buying it, I am sure CWS' price will go down.

Ya....you got me there...."not to sell".....acutally we had a realistic price on it and a couple guys almost bought my rifle.....so, I had to make it unobtainable.....

tenpercentfirearms
05-21-2009, 7:34 PM
Are these any good?
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24329&title=AR-15%20S-15%20LOWER%20RECEIVER

They're in stock, my C & R discount prices them at $96.00.

A lower is a lower, but that is not a $90 Kaiser. You won't find any $90 Kaisers because Kaiser doesn't sell them that cheap anymore. They used to, but not anymore.

That was the point of that post, the guy quoting the prices doesn't know what he is talking about. He thinks he does, but he is wrong.

I was not the first guy to bring lowers into the state. I was the first guy to openly sell them and most certainly at a gun show. Right after I started, I contacted the Garcia's at CWS and they jumped in too. Then they went big time and really started to move some product.

That is pretty much what happened.

I do concede you have some points but this one is mainly off. Althought you did say some people.

You have not true idea how much money all or some of these "elitist" people have or don't have. Heck I have a "friend" that makes pretty good money that spends time going in to Wal Marts everyday just to make a few extra bucks reselling/gouging ammo on the internet.

I know/have known people that make pretty decent money that just won't pay top dollar or get gouged, up to and including millionaires.

Heck, my grandpas best friend was a millionaire and he was one of the cheapest bastards I ever knew :)

I know he would have shopped around and not gotten priced gouged on an AR, ammo, ect.

How you think they stayed rich? haha

I lied to myself, I couldn't help but go back and read the rest of the thread. I'm sure it will be locked soon anyhow.

Everyone online is a super swift, deal making cheap bastard. The guys who don't shop online tend not to be. They see something, they want it, they buy it, and they don't haggle. I know these people exist, because I sell them firearms and accessories and they don't care how much they cost.

Not everyone is like this obviously. However, they are out there.

krushem2000
05-21-2009, 9:07 PM
[QUOTE=PIRATE14;2515079]Only lower we sold at 400 was a Noveske........oh, and we have a few NOVESKE blems left at SOCAL for 199.....but not many....[/QUOTE
<zips lips> question was answered couple pages before so

btt

supermario
05-21-2009, 9:40 PM
While...I don't mind DAs wanking about prices.....

NO ONE is getting ripped off....PERIOD....

Supplies are picking up some.....

....CLOSE UP....NO WAY WE ARE LOOKING AT EXPANDING.......:thumbsup: Have been for over 10 YEARS......

We have GLOCKS at 509 this week....so get'em....

We drag in more new shooters everyweek.....

Spend about 15K per month on advertising......BLACK RIFLE DISEASE....SPREAD IT.......

SCAR....SOLD IT....GREAT RIFLE....HOW MANY CA LEGAL SCARs have you seen.......

LOWERS....109.99 this week.....sale before....this BS thread....


Can you open up closer to Los Angeles, Please! And when you do, have Chris & Bethanie work there. Your staff is great but they are outstanding:thumbsup:

supermario
05-21-2009, 9:56 PM
No matter what price you pay for a gun, at least you can have that gun for the rest of your life if you take care of it, and who knows, that gun may be valued a whole lot more than you paid when you bought it at "gouging" prices. If you already own one or two guns then you really dont need anymore. Its like hearing people complain because Bass Boats are expensive or TV's went up in cost. If you already own a couple guns, then the rest are just being bought for fun and not neccessity. We should all be complaining on how the price of gas has been been going up slowly but surely, just in time for summer vacations:eek: Gasoline is a neccessity and people dont seem to cry about it even though you can spend hundreds a month, but if you spend hundreds a month on a gun that will last a lifetime, then you complain. I think you all ought to be grateful that you can still buy OLL's in California. Cmon guys be grateful and stop bashing all these dealers. Thats what all the anti-gun people want us to do. The DOJ probably gets happy when they read calgunners wishing a cali store going out of business.. CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG:D

bombadillo
05-21-2009, 10:06 PM
I do most of my shopping now online and for the most part, I really really do like to shop local in a small town like Eureka. I attempt to keep my money here, but when I can avoid the local tax on a 500+ dollar item, and they charge me a whopping 25 bucks to ship, guess where i'm going. I go through a dealer who charges me flat 25 bucks to dros it from out of the area so i'm usually out 50 bucks or so depending on shipping but its a lot better than knowing i'm helping out Arnold in all his greatness.

Sig357
05-21-2009, 10:19 PM
Nobody is getting ripped off IMO. If you buy an item at a high price, it was your decision to buy. No one forced you to buy it.

gn3hz3ku1*
05-21-2009, 11:17 PM
Only lower we sold at 400 was a Noveske........oh, and we have a few NOVESKE blems left at SOCAL for 199.....but not many....

this post was in regards to a 400 stag lower you guys had posted on your website...

are you saying this never happened?

gn3hz3ku1*
05-21-2009, 11:30 PM
btw no point in complaining about pirate14 he doesnt care... just go search his posts.. just go buy elsewhere... if he has it in stock and wants blabhblah for it.. if you buy it.. well that is your fault.

falawful
05-21-2009, 11:44 PM
Jeez.

I remember when Stag lowers were $89.95.....

Really...

PIRATE14
05-22-2009, 8:13 AM
btw no point in complaining about pirate14 he doesnt care... just go search his posts.. just go buy elsewhere... if he has it in stock and wants blabhblah for it.. if you buy it.. well that is your fault.

You know I care about you.......you still need some 308 ammo....come by my shop and I'll give you a 100 rds.....;)

gn3hz3ku1*
05-22-2009, 8:17 AM
You know I care about you.......you still need some 308 ammo....come by my shop and I'll give you a 100 rds.....;)

cool someone should take you up on the offer... :TFH:

geeknow
05-22-2009, 8:54 AM
You said you were happy to see overpriced stuff. Call me crazy but a comment such as that is begging for someone to tell it like it is.

sorry i didnt have time to respond sooner....was busy selling gloriously overpriced stuff to happy buyers.....:thumbsup:

would you be so kind as to "tell it like it is" for me again?....:rolleyes::thumbsup:

rbetts
05-22-2009, 9:03 AM
Hi All,

Thought I'd dive in as one of those big bad Cali-Shops with product. We do NOT get great prices or are we able all of the time to get Manufacturers and DIstributors to even deal with us. to that end we buy what and where we can and at whatever price we can negotiate. Here is what I have now.

RRA Varmint A4 Bull barrel uppers 24" $840.00 First come first serve-2 available.

16" DPMS A2 Upper M4 Style-$780.00
16" RRA Entry Tactical M4 style-$780.00

S & W MP15 stripped lowers. $210.00 Say your a cal gunner and I'll let it go for $200.00 just for the words.

10/30 P Mags. . . .CAA CBST's . . .Hogue Grips. . . Compensators. . . . .
non *A***hat great customer service. . . .I have it all for you.


Rob@goldenstatetactical.com

motorhead
05-22-2009, 10:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n3LL338aGA

DeepSeaDouble
05-22-2009, 12:41 PM
Everyone online is a super swift, deal making cheap bastard.

This was my favorite part of this whole thread ;)

zman
05-22-2009, 12:51 PM
Wes and CWS were some of the 1st but there were others before them. Ben Cannon and his JP was before Wes.

So the Black Rifle Disease Syndrome started in SoCal and the above are responsible? :confused: :43:

Who was the first in NorCal? Do we have a sticky or something on the "history"?

Steve O
05-22-2009, 1:06 PM
I was in Reno this week on business. Stopped in to a local gun store and seen a KD lower for $165. I asked him how much out the door. He said 165 plus tax!

Apparently their inst as much BS fees in NV.
If that lower were here in CA out would be above 220 OTD.

Matt@EntrepriseArms
05-22-2009, 1:12 PM
Entreprise which was selling ak's for 600 is selling the same gun for 1100 now. they get them from inter arms and pay only a few bux more for them.

First of all, we never sold one for $600.00. I think we did have one for either $650 or $700 with no pistol grip and a standard buttstock.

Second, the ones we sold a year ago that were cheaper were from parts kits we bought back when parts kits were cheaper. Now they are 3x the price, so our prices increase according to our cost. Our newer kits also have the new U.S. made barrels, which not only cost more, but take more work to finish.

Last, our prices are comparable to Lancaster AK's, and sometimes even cheaper.

vf111
05-22-2009, 1:14 PM
So the Black Rifle Disease Syndrome started in SoCal and the above are responsible? :confused: :43:

Who was the first in NorCal? Do we have a sticky or something on the "history"?

I think Ben is in Norcal (San Jose)

hoozaru
05-22-2009, 1:36 PM
I think Ben is in Norcal (San Jose)

dude, frontier is so 2008 :p

Sgt Raven
05-22-2009, 3:00 PM
Wes and CWS were some of the 1st but there were others before them. Ben Cannon and his JP was before Wes.

So the Black Rifle Disease Syndrome started in SoCal and the above are responsible? :confused: :43:

Who was the first in NorCal? Do we have a sticky or something on the "history"?

Ben Cannon was/is in the North SF bay area and Wes is in Taft/ Central California. CWS is in SoCal. So all of Cal was/is covered. :thumbsup:

aplinker
05-22-2009, 5:11 PM
I want everything priced like 10yrs ago and unless you do it I'll call it gouging.

I don't care if your supplier charges you $150, I once saw it sold for $120, so I want it for $120.

If you don't you're a gouger and I'll smear you on the intardwebs.

:rolleyes:


This thread is new and interesting. :rolleyes:

Desert_Rat
05-22-2009, 6:47 PM
I saw a CMMG Lower for $289.00 today

Gunaria
05-22-2009, 7:30 PM
This was my favorite part of this whole thread ;)

Yeah mine too.:rolleyes: Too bad this CGF board member has had to result to childish name calling. I would expect better from such members.

This must be a new record for a gouge thread to be open, so once again IBTL.

Fjold
05-22-2009, 7:51 PM
First of all, we never sold one for $600.00. I think we did have one for either $650 or $700 with no pistol grip and a standard buttstock.

Second, the ones we sold a year ago that were cheaper were from parts kits we bought back when parts kits were cheaper. Now they are 3x the price, so our prices increase according to our cost. Our newer kits also have the new U.S. made barrels, which not only cost more, but take more work to finish.

Last, our prices are comparable to Lancaster AK's, and sometimes even cheaper.

Matt,

Don't confuse the issue with facts. Stop cluttering this thread up with reality.

MikeinnLA
05-22-2009, 11:59 PM
I'm overpaying for guns and I'm fine with it. Not double, mind you, but I think I'm paying $50 - $ 100 more per gun than I could at another store or online. But guess what? The lower priced store HAS NO GUNS and buying online (if you can find someone to ship to Cali) involves shipping plus $ 75 FFL fee, so the price is about the same. I walk into my new favorite gun store and they have EVERYTHING I want. EVERY Sig, EVERY Glock, rows of 1911s, rifles EVERYWHERE. So, I paid $ 895 for my Mini 14 when Turners was advertising them at $ 849, but at least it was there to buy. I looked everywhere for a nice 10-22. Nothing. Walked into this store and they had 5 for sale. Same with the M1A. With the $ of ammo we put through these things, the cost of the gun itself is insignificant IMO.

Mike

CALI-gula
05-23-2009, 1:38 AM
Then you are a fool and I hope you go broke buying overpriced stuff.

At Crossroads CWS had complete ARs for $1500 (basic nothing special rifles) - $2500 (railed rifles). Hahhahahaha. Idiots lining up to buy them. I hope you were one of them. When you turn 22 let us know how you feel about overpriced stuff. You know, when you aren't living in momma's garage anymore.

What an unfortunate manner by which you express yourself.

.

CALI-gula
05-23-2009, 1:53 AM
Seriously, take a step back and realize how elitist and snobby some of you sound. There is no need to bad mouth people who have money and want to spend it. Please by all means educate your friends and others on how to get a good deal. Just don't insult them while you are at it with all of this name calling. And understand, some people have more money than time or Internet knowledge. They don't want to shop around for hours, they want it and they want it now. Despite your cries that these people are idiots, they are not. They just have more money than you.


Very well stated.

.

CALI-gula
05-23-2009, 1:59 AM
LOL don't confuse us! :D

I know that's not true, in late 05', early 06' we either humped it to Taft or waited out in Hector's/Michelle's garage to buy $225 lowers. <=== OMG price gouge!!! :eek: :)

I was there. Good fun, good people, good times.

And things were much more polite back then. So was discourse on Calguns.

:euro:

.

norcal77
05-23-2009, 2:18 AM
Yeah..I see the prices you are talking about but I will never pay them. I do my homework and shop around...there is always a deal out there.

tenpercentfirearms
05-23-2009, 7:20 AM
Yeah mine too.:rolleyes: Too bad this CGF board member has had to result to childish name calling. I would expect better from such members.

This must be a new record for a gouge thread to be open, so once again IBTL.

That isn't childish name calling. You obviously don't know a compliment when you read one. You guys on Calguns super swift, deal making cheap bastards. It is true, 100%.

That is why the people here usually don't pay outrageous prices on items. We are talking $300 lowers and $2000 standard M4 rifles. Calgunners are not paying those prices.

Unfortunately, along with some of that knowledge comes some arrogance and as a result, some of those same Calguns members look down on anyone who pays more than they do for a product. And that is where we get the real name calling like "idiots, fools, and stupid."

Gunaria, toughen up a bit. You are too sensitive. Or maybe you have an ax to grind. Nah, that couldn't be it. :rolleyes:

So the Black Rifle Disease Syndrome started in SoCal and the above are responsible? :confused: :43:

Who was the first in NorCal? Do we have a sticky or something on the "history"?

Actually, I will claim credit on all of California. I started selling lowers at the San Jose Gun Show and many of those guys either drove back down to Taft to pick them up or transfered them to Roger's Relics. :p

Shoot, the only credit I get is being the first fool to heap that kind of workload and legal risk on myself. Thankfully Ben Cannon and Bill Wiese knew what they were talking about, so the legal risk wasn't ever there, just financial risk of not getting the lowers DROSed in two weeks. Then this thing got much bigger than my operation and numeruos other brave shops helped with what amounted to a state wide effort. I don't think you can ever thank just one person for OLLs. It was a team effort spread across the entire state, but mainly one web board.

creampuff
05-23-2009, 7:30 AM
I just don't get it sometimes. A free market society is a free market society. We can't call it a free market society, only when prices are low. And then claim we are being ripped off when the prices are high.

Isn't this just Economy 101 we are watching here? This is just a bubble isn't it?

The manufacturers will eventually catch up to demand..in fact probably over compensate, and produce too much supply. I really don't think we will see too much complaining when the prices drop as they try to unload their inventory.

For the well meaning posts from people who want to keep newbies from getting ripped off - it is the consumer's responsiblity to inform him or herself. I remember when my sister, freshly starting a new job, naively went into a Toyota dealer, barely negotiated, and bought a Camry at MSRP. Was she dumb for doing so ..YES? But it was her fault for not researching before purchasing, and finding out what she really should have been paying. Personal responsiblity, personal accountability - we do not need a nanny state, where everyone needs to be protected from the stupidity of their own action.

geeknow
05-27-2009, 11:11 AM
Then you are a fool and I hope you go broke buying overpriced stuff.

At Crossroads CWS had complete ARs for $1500 (basic nothing special rifles) - $2500 (railed rifles). Hahhahahaha. Idiots lining up to buy them. I hope you were one of them. When you turn 22 let us know how you feel about overpriced stuff. You know, when you aren't living in momma's garage anymore.

this statement was both rude and incorrect.

the rude...you can figure that out.

the incorrect...
left home at 19-20...like most people do...
never lived in momma's garage. that is where we kept cars, extra toilet paper, and such...
age 22 came and went years ago...

sadly for you (and hilariously coincidentallly), i was not one of the idiots buying at the last crossroads show......:cool:

i have noticed that when people resort to name calling, they usually start by hurling those insults which point out their own perceived shortcomings.....

i'm just sayin....