PDA

View Full Version : Locked fabric guncase--- Legal for vehicle transport?


JohnBrian
05-20-2009, 6:21 PM
Maybe this has been discussed but I couldn't find it with the search function.

Anyway . . .

The case is a Galati. I added some metal rings from keyrings to make it long enough to attach the lock to the zipper & the case. With the lock locked you can't get to the rifle inside without either 1) using the key or 2) pulling REALLY REALLY REALLY hard & ripping the case apart (at least that would be my guess as I haven't tested it since this is the only one of these cases I have).

This would be transported in an SUV-type vehicle so no trunk, etc., to lock up any firearm.

Look at the pics below & give me your knowledge/opinion/wild-a**ed-guess!

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/CG_johnbrian/IMG_0266.jpg

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt311/CG_johnbrian/IMG_0269.jpg

CHS
05-20-2009, 6:28 PM
Why are you locking a long gun?

Only handguns need to be in a locked container while being transported concealed.

Long guns only need to be unloaded. There is no need for the lock.

1911su16b870
05-20-2009, 6:28 PM
If you are keeping handguns in that big bag, IMO I would lean on your split ring locks not fitting the spirit of the law.

IIRC someone on calguns said if a 10 year old can get into it, no go. :)

oops
05-20-2009, 6:31 PM
I do think there is an unenforced law about school zones and all firearms need to be locked ( I could be wrong).. but it's not a bad idea to lock them up anyways.... prob with that lock is the key chains.... but then again no real need to lock long guns up in the first place

JAGGUY
05-20-2009, 6:31 PM
If thats for a long gun I suppose it would be OK since a long gun dosn't need to be locked up anyway. But since you can remove those keyrings without a key the case isn't locked so it wont be legal for a handgun.
At least thats how I see it.
-greg

CHS
05-20-2009, 6:39 PM
I do think there is an unenforced law about school zones and all firearms need to be locked ( I could be wrong)..

Only if you are KNOWINGLY driving through a school zone.

BKinzey
05-20-2009, 7:03 PM
Don't Assault Weapons need to be locked for transport? I thought they did.

As for your case since you could easily take the links apart without breaking or destroying anything I'd say it's a no. I'd suggest getting one of those locks that has a wire rope....uh..shackle thingy...on it and connect the two together.

I use a lock like yours on my soft cases but the zipper comes right to the solid ring.

Personally I lock all my firearms, handguns & long guns, in cases for transport. I figure it's another step in probable cause should I get pulled over for any reason.

JohnBrian
05-20-2009, 7:15 PM
I thought ALL firearms had to be locked up when transporting. I'll still do it anyway, it would make me feel better if I got pulled over.



As for your case since you could easily take the links apart without breaking or destroying anything I'd say it's a no. I'd suggest getting one of those locks that has a wire rope....uh..shackle thingy...on it and connect the two together.

Didn't even think about the link aspect! :kest:
Off to WallyWorld tomorrow for a wire rope lock!

I use a lock like yours on my soft cases but the zipper comes right to the solid ring.

Personally I lock all my firearms, handguns & long guns, in cases for transport. I figure it's another step in probable cause should I get pulled over for any reason.
I lock all of mine up as well. I have a pistol rug where the zipper comes up to the solid ring.

aermotor
05-20-2009, 7:57 PM
Does that bag have 2 zippers for the main compartment?

SCMA-1
05-20-2009, 8:00 PM
CA registered AW's must be transported in a locked case. I use soft cases to transport mine but I would have an issue with the split rings like someone has already mentioned.

SCMA-1

RomanDad
05-20-2009, 8:12 PM
Id say Spot weld the key rings closed. Then you could carry whatever you want in there.

tombinghamthegreat
05-20-2009, 8:15 PM
Yes legal but no need to lock up long guns...There is the federal issue when in a school zone but that is not really enforceable and you have to be knowingly be violating it.

JohnBrian
05-21-2009, 12:29 AM
Does that bag have 2 zippers for the main compartment?
Unfortunatly, no, only a single ended zipper.

GoodEyeSniper
05-21-2009, 12:44 AM
Yes legal but no need to lock up long guns...There is the federal issue when in a school zone but that is not really enforceable and you have to be knowingly be violating it.

What issue is that? I live right across the street from a private elementary school, and about 200 yards from a public elementary school. So it's safe to say someone like me would be knowingly in a school zone.

Though I have no long guns, so it doesn't present a problem yet...

tincan715
05-21-2009, 9:37 AM
Your local hardware store will sell you a foot of jack chain or similar non-welded chain that you can open with pliers and then fasten securely around the D-ring to replace the key ring links. It might cost a dollar.

GTXR390
05-21-2009, 9:43 AM
if i was a thief i'd love to see those split rings...ahahah. I lock my firearms up in my backpack, with a 4 wheel combo lock. and then i lock the backpack to a gun lock (wire gun lock?), the ones that come with the guns, and lock it right on to my back seat...the back seat's got bars/hooks to hook in child safety seat

uuumm...legal, right?

glock_this
05-21-2009, 9:45 AM
split rings??? :eek: might as well not even lock it, or just use bread ties :)

aermotor
05-21-2009, 10:30 AM
Yes legal but no need to lock up long guns...There is the federal issue when in a school zone but that is not really enforceable and you have to be knowingly be violating it.

Really good to know this as I didn't... I have to drive right by an Elementary school when leaving my house so I'll make sure to keep a lock on my long gun bag, thanks.

MonsterMan
05-21-2009, 10:38 AM
I would attach a strap with a grommet on it closer to the zipper so you can lock though the grommet. Just cut a piece of black nylon webbing and attach your grommet to that. Then sew the strap to an area that is at a good distance to lock your lock.

AaronHorrocks
05-21-2009, 10:47 AM
Why are you locking a long gun?

Only handguns need to be in a locked container while being transported concealed.

Long guns only need to be unloaded. There is no need for the lock.

All registered "Assault Weapons" have to be locked up too!

TheBundo
05-21-2009, 10:54 AM
I don't always use a bag, and never a lock

Glock22Fan
05-21-2009, 11:12 AM
If you decide that it needs to be locked, and I don't often lock my long guns, rather than an unwelded chain, which can easily be opened with pliers, use a welded chain with a lock at each end. Then your weakest link is probably the loops on the zip fasteners.

CSDGuy
05-21-2009, 11:14 AM
Id say Spot weld the key rings closed. Then you could carry whatever you want in there.
I would have to agree. Weld the key rings closed and functionally, its just like a chain. At that point, it would likely require tools to remove that chain. Or go with the grommeted strap idea. Just make sure that the strap is securely fastened to the case and that the grommet will reach far enough so that you can lock the zipper...

sorensen440
05-21-2009, 11:15 AM
That looks like it would be easy to open with out a lock

1. simply sliding off a split ring

2. Folding the bag closer to the split ring point and unzipping the zipper with the padlock still attached

eltee
05-21-2009, 11:22 AM
If you are going to use that style case and lock, perhaps a short length of linked chain would be more secure (or secure looking) than split rings.

bill104
05-21-2009, 11:26 AM
My ar is registered as a long rifle, I transport it in a closed unlocked case, with a 10 round mag locked in at all times, BB is always in the safe mode, I usally lock the bolt open with a flag in it, since my ar has a california fixed mag, I figure I'm safe that way.

MasterYong
05-21-2009, 11:43 AM
If you're trying to lock it for legal purposes, then I don't know if that would cut it or not.

However, if you're trying to lock it for the sake of it being locked, then your technique is NOT going to work with ANY zippered case:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwfYuUPcgHg

CHS
05-21-2009, 11:56 AM
My ar is registered as a long rifle

No it's not.

Long guns are not registered in CA. Only handguns, AW's and .50BMG rifles.

ohsmily
05-21-2009, 12:05 PM
My ar is registered as a long rifle, I transport it in a closed unlocked case, with a 10 round mag locked in at all times, BB is always in the safe mode, I usally lock the bolt open with a flag in it, since my ar has a california fixed mag, I figure I'm safe that way.

Huh? Is this a registered assault weapon? If not, and it is just an OLL, it is NOT registered as a long gun; it is not registered at all. You are right that it does not need to be locked while being transported. If it is a reg'ed assault weapon, then it does need to be locked.

paul0660
05-21-2009, 12:12 PM
626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) shall not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.
(2) The firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked container
or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section shall not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law.


So, if transporting through a school zone, the long gun does not have to be locked up, just unloaded (in accordance with state law).

bill104
05-21-2009, 12:14 PM
opps my bad, youre right its a oll, I don't own a aw.

leadchucker
05-22-2009, 12:09 AM
So, if transporting through a school zone, the long gun does not have to be locked up, just unloaded (in accordance with state law).

Thanks for posting the PC reference.

I know I've had it confirmed for me before, but now I forget, where is it that CCW is exempted from this section?

DDT
05-22-2009, 12:12 AM
Here is the CCW exemption.

626.9 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/626.9.html)(c)(4) When the person is exempt from the prohibition against
carrying a concealed firearm pursuant to subdivision (b), (d), (e),
or (h) of Section 12027.

aermotor
05-22-2009, 12:13 AM
So, if transporting through a school zone, the long gun does not have to be locked up, just unloaded (in accordance with state law).

Oh so just unloaded?... well I never carry it loaded in the car anyway, don't think you ever should.

tombinghamthegreat
05-22-2009, 12:16 AM
So, if transporting through a school zone, the long gun does not have to be locked up, just unloaded (in accordance with state law).

Yes that is legal under state law....

leadchucker
05-22-2009, 12:37 AM
Here is the CCW exemption.

Thankyou, but I thought CCW fell under 12050, not 12027. (What is 12027?)

NSR500
05-22-2009, 1:52 AM
Spend a couple $$$ and get a bag like this: http://www.lapolicegear.com/diplomat-bail-out-bag-jr--tactical-nylon.html

Double Zippered, Cheap, and enough room for a pistol and magazines inside.
Since you're transporting in an SUV, you can get the black one and make it look like a roadside emergency kit. ;)

http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/policestuff_2056_44079011
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/policestuff_2056_44106124
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/policestuff_2056_44424565

hawk1
05-22-2009, 8:28 AM
Lose the split rings and buy/use a cable lock they sell for pistols.

http://www.arizonagunrunners.com/images/cl551.gif

GTXR390
05-22-2009, 8:43 AM
so umm...just wana make sure...i have my guns in locked in my backpack, with a combo wheel lock...and my backpack is cable locked to my back seat. Backpacks, are ok, right?

paul0660
05-22-2009, 8:54 AM
12027 is a long list of exceptions to violations of 12025, concealed weapon, including CCWS covered by 12050.

One interesting thing. The federal school zone law says

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Which means to me that Alaskans and Vermonters cannot ccw in school zones because they are not backround checked. There may be some other shall issue states in the same boat.

paul0660
05-22-2009, 8:59 AM
GTX, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

I think a backpack is legal, and woefully inadequate. Also, it doesn't have to be cable locked to anything, it can be loose.

hawk1
05-22-2009, 9:06 AM
GTX,

I think a backpack is legal, and woefully inadequate. Also, it doesn't have to be cable locked to anything, it can be loose.

He's talking about locking the opening to prevent access, not locking it to something.
The law reads "placed in a fully enclosed secure locked container", a paper sack with a lock in the fold is not 'secure'. A backpack is no different than soft cases, so as long as it's 'secure' you're good to go.

paul0660
05-22-2009, 9:16 AM
and my backpack is cable locked to my back seat.

What GTX said, hawk.

And, imo, a fabric case is one baby step away from paper. Legal, but not going to stop anyone with a blade.

GTXR390
05-22-2009, 9:29 AM
What GTX said, hawk.

And, imo, a fabric case is one baby step away from paper. Legal, but not going to stop anyone with a blade.

ya'll are right, fabric is not great, but that's all i got, so at least it'll keep the law off my (_|_) if anything.

and it's a swiss army backpack, i got one from Ogio too, so fabric's a lot thicker, and make it harder for a crook to use a blade...although it's not full proof.

And i have the backpack lock, so no one can just open it....and it's cable locked to the seat, so no one just walks off with my backpack...ahaha.

Hey if it's gonna happen, imma make that crook work for it, and if i catch him...well, then that's for me to know...lol

paul0660
05-22-2009, 9:40 AM
What I use, on the rare occasions I need to leave a gun in a car, is to put it in one of these or something similar: http://www.discountofficeitems.com/securit-lockn-latch-cash-box-pmc04963-office-products-10802.html?utm_campaign=PM%2520Company,%2520LLC&utm_content=PMC04963%2520-%2520PM%2520SecurIT%2520Lock%2527N%2520Latch%2520C ash%2520Box&utm_term=PMC04963&utm_medium=shopping_engine&utm_source=froogle&source=froogle&ref=froogle

which is bolted to a somewhat unseen spot in the car (I don't have a car with a trunk). You could also mangle it a bit and be able to put a cable through it, which is better according to some because when it is permanently attached some consider it a "utility box" and illegal.

I found one at Staples with a little better lock than the one pictured, and it fits a medium sized pistol and mags just fine. I glued some foam rubber in it and it works great.

clippers6
06-17-2009, 2:57 PM
I picked up a PPT handgun yesterday. I forgot about the lock so I bought a cable lock for a few dollars at the gun store. As we were finishing up, the employee started to put the cable lock on the gun. I get a little paranoid about this since I'm worried about scratching. I asked if he could put the lock on the hardcase the gun came in instead. It's a S&W case with the hole for the lock. The last time I bought a handgun (different shop), the guy said to lock through the hole and wrap the cable around the handle. The guy yesterday said it was a better idea to lock the gun as opposed to the case. He had heard that sometimes a LEO will be able to get the case slightly open since the cable lock is not very tight. He warned that they could claim it wasn't properly locked if they can do this.

This got me thinking about my range bag. It has two zipper pulls so I just lock them together with an old CA approved cable lock. You could easily get the zippers apart enough to get a hand in there. Would I be better off just putting a luggage lock on the range bag (not sure about whether the lock has to be CA approved or not)?

Usually I keep my range bag in the trunk, but since my black seats flip down, I guess my trunk isn't considered a locked container.

Librarian
06-17-2009, 3:05 PM
Probably better off with the luggage lock.

If you can pull the zippers apart far enough to insert your hand, that doesn't sound like any reasonable definition of 'secure'.

Locking the gun does not substitute for the locked case.

MasterYong
06-17-2009, 3:13 PM
I'm not sure about the legality, but one of the reasons (aside from complying with the law during transport) that I lock my guns in their cases is to prevent anyone other than me form having quick access.

With my GFs S&W revolver, we tried putting the cable lock through the hole in the case, but not only does it allow the case to open it allows the case to open approx 5"!!! Anyone could EASILY get the handgun out of the case.

So, in that light, I'd say get a real padlock for the case for transport, OR put the cable lock on the gun. I can't cite PC, but I recall seeing a thread a few months ago where the general conclusion was that putting the cable lock through the gun during transport without locking the case was just as good as locking the case itself. Find the relevant PC/case law to be sure of course, I hope I'm not spreading FUD.

For padlocks I use the TSA-approved three-digit combination locks. You can get them at Target or Longs or CVS or whatever for about $5. You can set your own combo so you don't have to remember several. My GF was concerned because they have a key hole on the bottom to allow TSA agents to get in and check your otherwise licked bags, but it seems highly unlikely that a TSA agent is going to be the one to get a hold of my handgun, use his nifty little key to unlock it, and then use the handgun without my permission. As far as satisfying the law however it's perfect and the lock is small enough to fit in most factory-issued gun cases.

Librarian
06-17-2009, 3:17 PM
I can't cite PC, but I recall seeing a thread a few months ago where the general conclusion was that putting the cable lock through the gun during transport without locking the case was just as good as locking the case itself. Find the relevant PC/case law to be sure of course, I hope I'm not spreading FUD.


Not FUD, merely incorrect. If one is going to transport a handgun concealed the 12026.1 and .2 requirement is 12026.1 (a)
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
...
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

12026.2
(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
...
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.

MasterYong
06-17-2009, 3:22 PM
Not FUD, merely incorrect. If one is going to transport a handgun concealed the 12026.1 and .2 requirement is.....

I was definitely aware of that, I just coulda sworn there was another thread that cited case law that made the cable lock OK. I'm not recommending anyone assume that's true, though- please don't listen to me! :)

I'm good either way, because I always lock up my guns. If I can, I even lock my rifles just to be sure, and if I can't then I use a cable lock on the rifles even though I know I don't have to.

CaptainGlock
06-18-2009, 3:25 PM
Not FUD, merely incorrect. If one is going to transport a handgun concealed the 12026.1 and .2 requirement is

The law quoted defines locked container, but it doesn't defined locked trunk! In order to get my shooting gear in the trunk of my Civic Si, I have to fold the rear seat forward. Now, there is no way that I could crawl over the front seat and access anything in the trunk in a timely fashion. Does any part of the law address this situation?

Librarian
06-18-2009, 4:42 PM
The law quoted defines locked container, but it doesn't defined locked trunk! In order to get my shooting gear in the trunk of my Civic Si, I have to fold the rear seat forward. Now, there is no way that I could crawl over the front seat and access anything in the trunk in a timely fashion. Does any part of the law address this situation?
Nope. One would need a case where a violation of 12025 were alleged on that basis. I haven't heard of one, so as far as I am aware, that remains unresolved. Available data from DOJ (http://ag.ca.gov/cjsc/pubs.php#concealableFirearms) doesn't shed any light on that particular corner.

IMHO it would take a mighty bad case of 'contempt of cop' to get such a charge, but nearly anything's possible.

lorax3
06-18-2009, 4:55 PM
So, if transporting through a school zone, the long gun does not have to be locked up, just unloaded (in accordance with state law).

That is correct although the issue with locking up long guns is a Federal, Title 18 issue. State law only governs handguns in school zones, federal law deals with "firearms". The issue here is "individual knowingly to possess". I choose not to bet on what a DA can prove, but follow the letter of the law. I doubt this law is ever enforced in other states, but it is still a law nonetheless.

18 USC 922(q)(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearmó
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that isó
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

Decoligny
06-19-2009, 8:27 AM
if i was a thief i'd love to see those split rings...ahahah. I lock my firearms up in my backpack, with a 4 wheel combo lock. and then i lock the backpack to a gun lock (wire gun lock?), the ones that come with the guns, and lock it right on to my back seat...the back seat's got bars/hooks to hook in child safety seat

uuumm...legal, right?

If I was a thief, I would care about the split rings. With and fabric type case, a quick slice with the Buck knife and the contents are mine. The purpose of a locked container isn't to prevent theft, it is to comply with the moronic law.

GTXR390
06-19-2009, 9:19 AM
If I was a thief, I would care about the split rings. With and fabric type case, a quick slice with the Buck knife and the contents are mine. The purpose of a locked container isn't to prevent theft, it is to comply with the moronic law.

you're right, but i'm always close proximity to my ride...so no worries. If i'm not, then my firearms don't go with me