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crazy
05-20-2009, 5:19 PM
I have a question about a Benelli M1Super 90 tactical shotgun. It has the factory pistol grip stock. I have been told different things by different people and gun shops(go figure). Can I put a mag extention on it legally? One person told me not with the pistol grip stock. One gun shop said no problem. I have read something about 922 with M4 shotguns using US made parts. I do have a straight stock that I bought. Would that make a difference? If this post should be under shotguns, please move it there.

frankym
05-21-2009, 11:58 AM
yes you can put a mag extension with the pistol grip, of course as long as it doesnt accept more than 10 rounds .....

the only thing that what would make a pistol grip illegal is if you had both a pistol grip and a telescoping or folding stock

ohsmily
05-21-2009, 12:01 PM
yes you can put a mag extension with the pistol grip, of course as long as it doesnt accept more than 10 rounds .....


Why not?

JDay
05-21-2009, 1:06 PM
yes you can put a mag extension with the pistol grip, of course as long as it doesnt accept more than 10 rounds .....

the only thing that what would make a pistol grip illegal is if you had both a pistol grip and a telescoping or folding stock

There is no 10 round limit on shotguns. Even a Saiga with a greater than 10 round fixed magazine is legal.

ke6guj
05-21-2009, 1:23 PM
Why not?

There is no 10 round limit on shotguns. Even a Saiga with a greater than 10 round fixed magazine is legal.because if you went over 10-rounds, you'd have a large-capacity magazine. The tubular magazine exemption only applies to lever-action firearms and .22s.

gose
05-21-2009, 1:29 PM
Pistol grip or straight stock doesnt matter, since even pistol grip shotguns are (in general) considered to be sporting by the ATF.
However, when you add a mag extension and take the capacity to over 5 rounds, you might trigger a federal 922(r) violation:

If your shotgun was imported with an extension before the import restrictions took place, you are definitely in the clear.
If your shotgun was imported without an extension before the import restrictions took place, you might be grandfathered, or you might be in violation, depending on ATF's mood that day.
If your shotgun was imported after the import restrictions took place, you will definitely be in violation.

PolishMike
05-21-2009, 1:29 PM
There is no 10 round limit on shotguns. Even a Saiga with a greater than 10 round fixed magazine is legal.


That is NOT true at all, and a good way to get a vacation at club fed

bwiese
05-21-2009, 1:49 PM
As for the original question, you likely need to comply with 922(r) and at a minimum use a US-mfg mag extension.
I am unsure of what the key foreign parts list/count is for a Benelli M1S90 shotgun is; it's possible other US-mfg parts might have to be added to play the "10 or less" game.



There is no 10 round limit on shotguns. Even a Saiga with
a greater than 10 round fixed magazine is legal.


That is NOT true at all, and a good
way to get a vacation at club fed

Wrong, PolishMike.

The fixed-10-rd-magazine limit only applies to rifles/pistols.

The fixed mag over 10 rds limit was put into generic rifle-based AWs for those big fixed-mag SKSes.

The fixed mag over 10rds limit was put into generic pistol-based AWs because of one of the Grendel pistols.

But there's no similar limit on shotguns - the only limit would be on the mag itself.

Bottom line: there is no ban on a hicap fixed mag semiauto shotgun -providing the magazine itself was legally acquired/possessed before 1/1/2000.

A CA Saiga can have a fixed 20rd magazine.
12276.1(a)
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following: (A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the
action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept
a detachable magazine.

(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

ke6guj
05-21-2009, 1:54 PM
Bill, but what about the fact that making/selling a firearm with an 11-round tubular fixed-magazine would be a violation of 12020(a)(2)?

It was a problem so they exempted .22s from that, and then the cowboy-crowd realized that their lever-action guns were included, so IIRC, they had 12020(c)(25)(C) added, A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm. . Tubular magazines on (other than .22) semi-auto or pump-guns would not be exempt from 12020(a)(2).

PolishMike
05-21-2009, 1:57 PM
As for the original question, you likely need to comply with 922(r) and at a minimum use a US-mfg mag extension.
I am unsure of what the key foreign parts list/count is for a Benelli M1S90 shotgun is; it's possible other US-mfg parts might have to be added to play the "10 or less" game.






Wrong, PolishMike.

The fixed-10-rd-magazine limit only applies to rifles/pistols.

The fixed mag over 10 rds limit was put into generic rifle-based AWs for those big fixed-mag SKSes.

The fixed mag over 10rds limit was put into generic pistol-based AWs because of one of the Grendel pistols.

But there's no similar limit on shotguns - the only limit would be on the mag itself.

Bottom line: there is no ban on a hicap fixed mag semiauto shotgun -providing the magazine itself was legally acquired/possessed before 1/1/2000.

A CA Saiga can have a fixed 20rd magazine.
12276.1(a)
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the
action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept
a detachable magazine.

(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

****, learn something new every day. When was the Saiga-12 first imported? (10+ rd mags)

Sorry bout that.

gose
05-21-2009, 2:13 PM
As for the original question, you likely need to comply with 922(r) and at a minimum use a US-mfg mag extension.
I am unsure of what the key foreign parts list/count is for a Benelli M1S90 shotgun is; it's possible other US-mfg parts might have to be added to play the "10 or less" game.

<snip>



According to the ATF letters floating around:
M1/2 S90 with straight stock -> 12 foreign parts
M1/2 S90 with pistol grip stock -> 13 foreign parts

Just adding an extension wont do anything at all to the parts count. To lower the count you need to replace the extension as well as the original 3/4/5 shot tube.

However, there are US manufactured followers, forearms, stocks, mag tubes (ie, not the extension), so it's fully possibly to get an M1/M2 922(r) compliant.

PEBKAC
05-21-2009, 3:58 PM
I did a Google search for the Benelli M4...similarly imported deal.

Found this:
http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15727

Is that FUD?

gose
05-21-2009, 4:56 PM
I did a Google search for the Benelli M4...similarly imported deal.
Found this:
http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15727
Is that FUD?

Yes.

There is much misunderstanding and confusion there, but I dont have time to refute it all now. If I can be bothered, I might do it later ;)

tyrist
05-21-2009, 6:34 PM
You can add the extension but you need to install a bunch more US made parts so you are not in violation of 922(r)

tgriffin
05-21-2009, 7:27 PM
To get my M1 compliant, I replaced the charging handle assembly, mag tube, recoil spring assembly, magazine follower, magazine spring, and installed a US made muzzle brake.

crazy
05-21-2009, 9:26 PM
Wow! I am even more confused. My pistol grip stock is one piece, so I think the parts count will be the same as a straight stock. The one thing I did notice from the link is the 1968 law.

The Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618

(30) The term "semiautomatic assault weapon" means --

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of --

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

So according to this, if I install the straight stock, 1,2 and 4 don't apply so I could extend the magazine.

As to 922(r), that is strictly about parts count? I thought that when I bought my shotgun, the ones with a straight stock had the extended mag. I might be remembering wrong.

I am a simple guy. This is starting to make my head hurt.:banghead:

ke6guj
05-21-2009, 9:57 PM
Disregard that GCA code you mention above. That is from the expired federal AW ban which expired in 2004.


What you have to comply with is the CA shotgun AW laws, the large-capacity magazine ban, and 922(r). 922(r) is a bit of a moving target since there is no list of what specific configurations are importable, and which aren't.

j6p2004
05-21-2009, 10:40 PM
From this 2006 BATFE letter, it seems that the Benelli M4/M1014 has only 11 imported parts. If this indeed is the case, replacing the mag tube would make the M4 922r compliant.

gose
05-22-2009, 12:07 AM
From this 2006 BATFE letter, it seems that the Benelli M4/M1014 has only 11 imported parts. If this indeed is the case, replacing the mag tube would make the M4 922r compliant.

More FUD. That letter wont do you any good, unless your name is on it, since it's obviously wrong.
There are later, correct, letters from ATF around as well, but for some reason most people only seem to find the one that says 11.

gose
05-22-2009, 12:12 AM
To get my M1 compliant, I replaced
the charging handle assembly, doesnt count
mag tube,
recoil spring assembly, doesnt count
magazine follower,
magazine spring, doesnt count
and installed a US made muzzle brake.doesnt count

I assume you have a straight stock on it then? (since if it has a pistol grip stock, you just told the world that you committed a 922(r) violation ;) )

randy
05-22-2009, 2:10 AM
gose what is a muzzel device as per 922? Is a choke or comp not a muzzle device?

Where are you getting your definitions? Do you work for the DOJ?

crazy
05-22-2009, 7:58 AM
Mine is a M1Super90. The pistol grip and stock are one. So that would drop the parts count by one to ten but you are saying that letter is wrong. What if I changed the mag tube and put a surefire forearm. Would that do it?