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View Full Version : Ordered my 460 Rowlan kit today.


Kid Stanislaus
05-20-2009, 12:09 PM
I just ordered my 460 Rowlan kit for my 5" Wilson Combat CQB. Because I live in the PRC I had to send off my slide to have it properly fitted and the compensator pinned and welded. You can see from the data below that it out performs the 45 ACP by considerable margin and that gun is no slouch in the self defense trade. That 230 gr. XTP at 1335 fps would certainly be up to the task of taking wild pig and the 185 gr. XTP at 1421 fps would undoubtedly be up to the task of taking pig of another variety. With the kit, gunsmithing, and 100 cases, I'm looking at just about $350 and since I'm young and foolish (even at 66 years of age!) that looks like a good deal to me.



BULLET LOADS

LOAD BULLET MV GROUP/15 YDS*
Factory 185 XTP-JHP 1530 5/8"
18.5 gr. AA#7 Hornady 185 XTP 1543 1 1/8"
16.5 gr. AA#7 Hornady 185 XTP 1421 3/4"
14.0 gr. AA#7 Hornady 200 XTP 1179
15.0 gr. AA#7 Hornady 200 XTP 1244
16.0 gr. AA#7 Hornady 200 XTP 1326
17.5 gr. AA#7 Hornady 200 XTP 1453 1"
12.0 gr. AA#7 Hornady 230 XTP 1037
13.0 gr. AA#7 Hornady 230 XTP 1149
14.0 gr. AA#7 Hornady 230 XTP 1180
15.7 gr. AA#7 Hornady 230 XTP 1335 7/8"
14.3 gr. AA#7 Sierra 240 JHP** 1228 1 3/4"

Gunaria
05-20-2009, 12:23 PM
I was lucky enough to pick up a kit from another CGer awhile back for $150. I too need to get the comp. pinned to the barrel and also some ammo. To bad your not closer, maybe we could have gone halfers on some ammo.

Kid Stanislaus
05-20-2009, 12:37 PM
I was lucky enough to pick up a kit from another CGer awhile back for $150. I too need to get the comp. pinned to the barrel and also some ammo. To bad your not closer, maybe we could have gone halfers on some ammo.

That was a real bargain! I don't think I'll be purchasing any ammo, I'll reload the brass with 185 grn JHPs of one variety or another and know with that velocity it'll expand plenty and probably leave a good exit wound.
Next up is a combo tac light/laser.

a.tinkerer
05-26-2009, 3:49 PM
Have either of you developed a load for the Rowland yet?
I too have a .460 kit and some brass coming for my 1911

My plan is to run heavy hard cast gas check bullets (and possibly Barnes solids) and use it for hunting in the northern foothills and timber.

When I get something together I will post my results to this thread.



Cheers
Tinker

blindluck
05-26-2009, 4:56 PM
You can see from the data below that it out performs the 45 ACP by considerable margin and that gun is no slouch in the self defense trade. That 230 gr. XTP at 1335 fps would certainly be up to the task of taking wild pig and the 185 gr. XTP at 1421 fps would undoubtedly be up to the task of taking pig of another variety.


Whats the consensus about diminishing returns of JHP bullets that are run too fast for their design parameters? My understanding is that when driven too fast they will fragment/separate which would decrease penetration and performance. I've read about poor JHP performance for pistol caliber rifles because the bullets are desiged for much lower velocities but not sure this applies here. Any thoughts? Is it possible to use hardcast bullets with wide meplat in your CQB which might be best for the 4 legged piggies?


Next up is a combo tac light/laser.

I have an SA pro with rail, surefire x400 and DG-18 switch. I've only played around with it but like it so far. Raven Concealment Systems should be sending out a holster for this combo in a month.

TKM
05-26-2009, 5:13 PM
I have reason to believe that some of the bullets selected for the 450 bushmaster loads will work with the 460 as well. YMMV, be careful.

The gold dots, not the polymer tipped rounds mostly. If you can make them fit in your magazine, please send pictures.

I hotload my regular 45 acp rounds to make them work with the Rowland spring setup and I use them as well in my 625. I'm very careful to keep them away from my regular 1911s. Whammo! is more than a Frisbee.

.454
05-26-2009, 5:20 PM
I fired a 1911 in 460Rowland and all I can say is SWEET!

Kid Stanislaus
05-26-2009, 5:21 PM
Have either of you developed a load for the Rowland yet? Tinker

Go back and check my orginal post. Those loads were developed by John Taffin.

Kid Stanislaus
05-26-2009, 5:24 PM
Whats the consensus about diminishing returns of JHP bullets that are run too fast for their design parameters? My understanding is that when driven too fast they will fragment/separate which would decrease penetration and performance. I've read about poor JHP performance for pistol caliber rifles because the bullets are desiged for much lower velocities but not sure this applies here. Any thoughts?

The Rowlan has been out long enough that if there were problems somebody would've noted that by now.

a.tinkerer
05-26-2009, 8:32 PM
There's very little published data on loads or performance for the Rowland.
I haven't seen much at all, anywhere - of real hunting results and terminal ballistics examples.

I've seen the taffin data and have it saved in a note to myself for when I get out to do my own load development for my pistol.
I've seen the data on the Clark site and the data on the realguns site and the data on Brownells.

Not much said about hard cast bullets, but I'll be going the wide meplat gas-check hard-cast route for sure.
I won't be trusting my hunts to JHP pistol bullets, hard cast wide meplat heavy bullets are much more reliable for straight-line penetration.


Here's the rest of Taffin's data, specific to cast bullets


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.460 ROWLAND CAST BULLET LOADS
LOAD BULLET MV GROUP
12.0 gr. AA#7 Lyman #452424/245 gr. 1080 2"
13.0 gr. AA#7 Lyman #452424/245 gr. 1128 3/4"
14.0 gr. AA#7 Lyman #452424/245 gr. 1231 1/2"
11.0 gr. AA#7 RCBS #45-255/260 gr. 923 1"
12.0 gr. AA#7 RCBS #45-255/260 gr. 968 1 1/2"
13.0 gr. AA#7 RCBS #45-255/260 gr. 1119 1/2"
12.0 gr. AA#7 Lyman #452423/230 gr. 1079 1"
13.0 gr. AA#7 Lyman #452423/230 gr. 1158 1 1/8"
14.0 gr. AA#7 Lyman #452423/230 gr. 1243 2"


At these velocities with gas-check bullets (Cast Performance for instance) leading is a total non-issue.
I'm guessing that Taffin stopped with these loads and that pressure signs weren't likely his limiting factor.



Was just curious to see if anyone here had done any load development on their own yet - what runs in one pistol doesn't necessarily run right in another pistol...




cheers
Tinker

blindluck
05-27-2009, 1:40 AM
The Rowlan has been out long enough that if there were problems somebody would've noted that by now.

I'm not confident that any lack of info proves anything but I'll try and keep an open mind. I read Taffin's article and found this interesting:
Bullets must be of the right construction for .460 Rowland speeds and pressures. Speer's Gold Dot bullets that are designed for the .45 ACP are too soft for the .460 Rowland at top end pressures. Care should be exercised in using any bullets that are of like construction for muzzle velocities in the 1,000 fps range.


Not much said about hard cast bullets, but I'll be going the wide meplat gas-check hard-cast route for sure.
I won't be trusting my hunts to JHP pistol bullets, hard cast wide meplat heavy bullets are much more reliable for straight-line penetration.


I'm curious to know what you find, thanks.

a.tinkerer
06-07-2009, 11:19 AM
B.Luck-



Got a half box of the Cast Performance 265gr Gas Check wide meplat bullets to fiddle with.
If I could find a bit of AA#7 powder I'd load a course of graduated charges up today and get into developing a load over the chronograph.


Anyone here in the Oakland area have a can of AA#7 and want to part with a couple hundred grains?



Cheers
Tinker

tankerman
06-07-2009, 4:54 PM
I have reason to believe that some of the bullets selected for the 450 bushmaster loads will work with the 460 as well. Really? You plan on loading .458 bullets in a .452 ?

That should make for an interesting day at the range.....hope I'm not on the bench next to you when the gun explodes.

tankerman
06-07-2009, 5:03 PM
The Rowlan has been out long enough that if there were problems somebody would've noted that by now.
Not necessarily, I reloaded using 185-250 JHP's in my .454 Casull, the bullets all blew apart. I used published data.

I've fired a lot of big-bore handguns, in my opinion, hardcast w/gas-check, solids or heavy copper jacketed LFN (acting similar to a solid) work best when driven fast. Better terminal performance, bone breaking, full penetration.

a.tinkerer
06-08-2009, 4:11 PM
Tankerman-

Devil's definitely in the details
Some guys are only in it for the shot -- terminal ballistics are so 'last season'
Proper Casul energies are definitely enough to strip the jackets off light split hollowpoints, especially in fast-twist barrels set up for heavy cast bullets!

I'm looking forward to seeing how I can do with these Cast Performance bullets in the Rowland. If I can get 1100fpsMV and very good accuracy without nasty pressure issues I'll be happy with that as a close-up woods hunting load - pretty sure that's going to end up working out.



Now if I could just find a couple hundred grains of AA#7 , Power Pistol, or True Blue so that I can work up a load before I dive in and buy a new can of powder...




Cheers
Tinker

tankerman
06-08-2009, 5:27 PM
I've got some VV 3N37 if you're feeling adventureous.

a.tinkerer
06-08-2009, 7:08 PM
Thanks for the offer.

I'll likely end up getting out into local ranch land this week where I'll be able to grab a couple hundred grains of the AA#7
That powder seems to be the 'favorite girl' for heavier bullets in the Rowland and I've had great results with other AA powders, consistent velocities across wide temperature and elevation changes.

We shall see...




Cheers
Tinker

TKM
06-08-2009, 8:23 PM
Really? You plan on loading .458 bullets in a .452 ?

That should make for an interesting day at the range.....hope I'm not on the bench next to you when the gun explodes.


Weird, the 240 gr. XTP only seems to amuse me, maybe because it (and all XTP .45 caliber bullets) is a .452. I hope I'm not at the bench when the gun explodes either.

tankerman
06-08-2009, 8:55 PM
Weird, the 240 gr. XTP only seems to amuse me, maybe because it (and all XTP .45 caliber bullets) is a .452. I hope I'm not at the bench when the gun explodes either.My mistake, I was thinking 450 Marlin, when you were saying 450 Bushmaster.

Kid Stanislaus
06-09-2009, 8:12 AM
B.Luck- Got a half box of the Cast Performance 265gr Gas Check wide meplat bullets to fiddle with.

Have you ever fed those through a sem-auto?

Kid Stanislaus
06-09-2009, 8:16 AM
Tankerman- Now if I could just find a couple hundred grains of AA#7 , Power Pistol, or True Blue so that I can work up a load before I dive in and buy a new can of powder...Tinker

Last week I received an 8# keg of AA7 from Powder Valley.

a.tinkerer
06-09-2009, 2:04 PM
Kid S-

I haven't yet run the 265gr flat point hard cast bullets through an autoloader.
I will be working to fix that issue some time very soon, just got a partial can of AA#7 this morning from a friend here in the area.

I'm not sure if I'll get a chance to get out to run any loads through the pistol before this weekend.
I'll ping this thread back with whatever results I come up with.





Cheers
Tinker

Kid Stanislaus
06-26-2009, 11:08 AM
I'm attempting to assemble the gun with that 24# recoil spring and HO-CHEE-MAMA!! I've tried cuss'n and thrown'n things and up 'til now it ain't work'n! If anybody has assembled one of these and has any techniques to suggest I'm all ears. I called the folks that manufactured it and pretty much got the "keep try'n you'll get it eventually" speech. UGH!! I just went to their web site and watched a video where some guy assembled one in about 30 seconds, I HATE HIM!!

TKM
06-27-2009, 11:07 PM
If you think you're having fun now, just wait until you try to cycle it the first fifty times.

Fortunately I have hands like a Navy proctologist so I can make things do what they don't want to.

Kid Stanislaus
06-28-2009, 6:03 AM
Fortunately I have hands like a Navy proctologist so I can make things do what they don't want to.

Now THERE'S a little tidbit of information we were all waiting to hear!!

TKM
06-30-2009, 9:54 PM
Thumb-wrestle for beer??

Don't even think about me.... I'm just a truck monkey. I can pinch chunks out of beer cans but that's nothin'. (Yes, Fosters too, the new ones not the old ones.)

Taloft is a carpenter who has hands like five fingered rocks. Self-abuse becomes a redundant phrase with the catchers mitts he wanders around with.

Just sayin'....

a.tinkerer
07-01-2009, 10:16 AM
Not looking for a thumb-wrestling match, but I will commiserate on the heavy spring installation experience.
Not too bad though, but I'm a machinist and metalsmith and have been nudging heavy chunks of steel with my fingers for decades now.




Cheers
Tinker

a.tinkerer
11-20-2009, 7:50 PM
For anyone interested, I got a handful of loads over the chronograph with the Cast Performance WFNGC bullets for a consistent and easy 995-998 FPS, five feet from the chronograph.
Although I had to seat the COAL to 1.240 to get them to feed through the magazine, they ran through the action without a hitch.
Recoil was the typical popgun (very little) kind of recoil you'll feel from a 1911 with a big muzzle comp.
Sweet.
That 260gr bullet at a grand will do just fine!

I was given a box of Hornady 250gr XTP (.452") bullets today.
I'll try to get a few of them loaded and over the chronograph in the next week or two.
I also want to try the 230gr XTP - at the 1350 (easy for this cartridge) it'll still be doing 1140+fps at 100 yards.
With an 85yd zero, it's a point blank round to 100 yards with no more than 1.7" above or below the point of aim the whole way there.
That load looks like it might be the best of all, and from what I've been told by a few old (and wiser than me) guys lately, it'll hold together and penetrate like mad at those velocities.
If I could only find a box of that bullet here in the SF Bay Area.








Cheers
Tinker