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View Full Version : Del-Ton Vs. CMMG


Crawfish141
05-18-2009, 7:48 PM
I'm torn between these two brands for a mid-length Ar-15 Upper receiver. They are both regarded as good manufacturers, from what I've heard, but Del-Ton is so much cheaper. What kind of cost cutting measures does Del-Ton do? I'm just having a hard time believing they are so much cheaper, without some serious corners being cut. It just seems far to good to be true.




P.S. I'm aware of the ridiculously long wait times, and am patient enough to cope with them. So leave that out of the comparison.

Darklyte27
05-18-2009, 7:53 PM
i just got back from 2.5 week out of the country trip so i dont know what the price have dropped to but if you can get CMMG, stag, doublestar for less than 130ish do it.

gcvt
05-18-2009, 7:56 PM
i just got back from 2.5 week out of the country trip so i dont know what the price have dropped to but if you can get CMMG, stag, doublestar for less than 130ish do it.

He's talking about uppers ;)

Arteel
05-18-2009, 8:03 PM
Give them a call.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=185396

Darklyte27
05-18-2009, 8:22 PM
woops! haha see what traveling to another country half way around the world does to you?.. im working on a 14 hour time difference.. ehh

ghost
05-18-2009, 9:09 PM
i`d go with the cmmg over a del-ton any day.

Crawfish141
05-19-2009, 1:36 PM
i`d go with the cmmg over a del-ton any day.
Let me elaborate; I am wondering if CMMG from a functional standpoint, is worth the extra cash over Del-Ton.

Richie Caketown
05-19-2009, 1:46 PM
i would like to hear this arguement too

a1fabweld
05-19-2009, 3:01 PM
I have some CMMG uppers/lowers/complete rifles & they all function 100%. Everyone I know personally with CMMG stuff has had the same experience. I know nothing about Del-ton, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy more CMMG products.

Lateralus
05-19-2009, 3:10 PM
Let me elaborate; I am wondering if CMMG from a functional standpoint, is worth the extra cash over Del-Ton.

Yes.

Del-Ton cuts corners much like M1S. They aim to keep the cost down and performance to a fine-tuned mediocre.

CMMG comes standard with:

M4 Feedramps in barrel extension and upper
1/7 Barrel
Chrome Lining
MP Bolt
Fully shrouded Firing pins
Park under FSB
"F" Marked FSB
Very good warranty. Ive sent 1 or 2 uppers back to them with no problem.

I try to use CMMG for most my non specialty builds. The only ARs Ive built w/o CMMG I went with LMT and WOA, but only becasue I was building very specific high end builds. If you are looking for high quality on a semi-restricted budget, CMMG is the way to go.

hawk81
05-19-2009, 4:13 PM
Del-ton is back ordered a long time.

Crawfish141
05-19-2009, 5:19 PM
Del-ton is back ordered a long time.

I don't think there is an AR manufacturer that isn't.;)

lumwilliam
11-10-2009, 3:15 PM
Atlantic Firearms is selling a built Del-Ton M4 carbine for $889, and a CMMG M4 for $999. Anyone see why the CMMG would be worth ehe extra $110?

till44
11-10-2009, 3:21 PM
There is a reason why Del-Ton is cheaper, it is inferior in quality and care to CMMG. For the money CMMG is great quality and they will take care of you if anything goes down on the upper. Don't be cheap, your upper is where you want to spend the extra $$$.

tacticalcity
11-10-2009, 3:25 PM
Quality wise there is not question, CMMG. Del-ton is a nice affordable rifle. But CMMG starts off at a level others consider their top of the line upgrades.

We currently have CMMG and DPMS uppers in stock.

Henry47
11-10-2009, 3:28 PM
Atlantic Firearms is selling a built Del-Ton M4 carbine for $889, and a CMMG M4 for $999. Anyone see why the CMMG would be worth ehe extra $110?

when the price difference is this close, go with the CMMG, but a delton m4 shouldnt be more than $600. $485 for rifle kit + $100 for the lower.

railroader
11-10-2009, 3:42 PM
I have no experience with cmmg but I have two del-tons, a middy and and a m4. Both are chrome lined and haven't had any issues. Both run great with any ammo. I would recommend del-ton. I don't know about cmmg but del-ton mid length uppers only come in a heavy barrel profile which might be something you might want to consider. As for the last poster saying a del-ton m4 should be $600 I would like to know where. My chrome lined m4 was $570 for the kit shipped minus a rear sight and a lower. Mark

kermit315
11-10-2009, 3:54 PM
I also have a Del Ton Mid length on a DS lower, and had no problems tagging the 300m gong at Ojai with irons. Runs 100 percent with GI mags (had some cheap pro mag 10 rounders when I was in California that would jam it up). I have no complaints at all regarding fit, finish, or performance. For those that say DT cuts corners, do you have any examples?

DREADNOUGHT78
11-10-2009, 4:09 PM
Del-Ton makes a good product for the price. I see alot of people saying bad things but I never see the reasons they say them?Wheres the proof. I have had a few Del-Ton products and it worked for me!

Atlantic Firearms.com
11-10-2009, 4:26 PM
We have sold approx 100 ++ Del Ton rifles to Police Officers and Police Depts with no returns or complaints , however the CMMG rifles are top of the line it all depends on how much money you want to spend just becuase the CMMG is a better gun does not make the DEL Ton products a piece of crap. We sell most major AR15 lines in everyone likes to argue who is the best etc .

Flogger23m
11-10-2009, 4:39 PM
Seems like there are three levels of AR makers:

1) High quality - Colt/Noveseke/DD/LMT

2) Medium quality - CMMG/Stag/RRA

3) Lower quality - Del Ton/Doublestar/Model 1s

ect.

You get what you pay for. Sure, a Delton would be enough for most people.

Just keep in mind it is bottom of the barrel in terms of AR-15s.

CMMGs would probably hold up better if you really run it hard.

If you are like me where you just do some plinking and only run around 40-100 rounds per range visit, then buy the Del ton and enjoy it.

I went with a used CMMG/Grizzly with DPMS parts kit though.

CMMG is a good balance between quality and price.


But Del Ton is probably a great starter AR-15. So, go ahead and get it.

If it doesn't impress you, sell it and get an LMT or something.

Blood Ocean
11-10-2009, 4:39 PM
I built a rifle with a Del-Ton upper on a cmmg lower and the finish wasn't even close to as nice on the Del-Ton CMMG Lower. It was very matte and had terrible fit, you could see daylight between the upper and lower. Even on a budget that build cost $950 to complete. Luckily I sold that build for a nice profit and bought a complete CMMG m4 from Marks armory for $889 including removable carry-handle and lifetime wrranty. The upper and lower are a tight fit and the finish isn't exact but it's at least close. My del-ton wasn't bad, I still shoot it with the guy that bought it but it's not a CMMG. Think about it like this, would you rather buy a bare-bones honda and spend a bunch of money upgrading it or go ahead and get a factory tuned car? That's basically what you're doing here. I'm as cheap as the certain God's Favored People but when you're buying something that you will depend on, that will be with you for a long time (heirloom one-day?) and that you will truly be intimate with don't let 10% difference in price make up your mind, buy the quality parts.

kermit315
11-10-2009, 4:46 PM
with as many different manufacturers of AR parts as there are, you arent always going to get a color match....even within the same manufacturer.

I still have yet to hear of a quality complaint, beyond the color matching. Are there any, or is it generic bashing. I see this every time a Del Ton thread comes up, but never see anybody post anything that backs it up.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c361/fordboy0720/100_0527.jpg

Beelzy
11-10-2009, 4:55 PM
Yes.

Del-Ton cuts corners much like M1S. They aim to keep the cost down and performance to a fine-tuned mediocre.

CMMG comes standard with:

M4 Feedramps in barrel extension and upper
1/7 Barrel
Chrome Lining
MP Bolt
Fully shrouded Firing pins
Park under FSB
"F" Marked FSB
Very good warranty. Ive sent 1 or 2 uppers back to them with no problem.I try to use CMMG for most my non specialty builds. The only ARs Ive built w/o CMMG I went with LMT and WOA, but only becasue I was building very specific high end builds. If you are looking for high quality on a semi-restricted budget, CMMG is the way to go.


Sent two back?? Almost got buried in there with all that praise. :D

mls343
11-10-2009, 5:01 PM
I have both - a CMMG (14.5) and a Del-ton (16.0). Both work fine. I matched the CMMG with a CMMG lower and the Del-Ton is on my Territorial Gunsmiths lower. Both are excellent shooters and once I figured out the bullet button positioning, no problems with reliability.

For the record, the 16.0 is a tad (read: slight) better in the accuracy department. Both weapons, BTW, are KISS. Nothing fancy and built to be used.

Just my $0.02

lumwilliam
11-15-2009, 11:17 PM
There is a reason why Del-Ton is cheaper, it is inferior in quality and care to CMMG. For the money CMMG is great quality and they will take care of you if anything goes down on the upper. Don't be cheap, your upper is where you want to spend the extra $$$.

That's great and blunt advice. I appreciate it...and being a tightwad who often looks back with regret on purchases, needed it. Thanks!:)

technique
11-16-2009, 3:42 AM
Let me elaborate; I am wondering if CMMG from a functional standpoint, is worth the extra cash over Del-Ton.

YES!


i would like to hear this arguement too

Get ready!


Del-Ton makes a good product for the price. I see alot of people saying bad things but I never see the reasons they say them?Wheres the proof. I have had a few Del-Ton products and it worked for me!

I see this every time a Del Ton thread comes up, but never see anybody post anything that backs it up.
[/IMG]

Back it up your selves and learn! You want proof? Go get your own!
Proof? Do you not understand inferior products? Do you not have any understanding in the different types of barrel steel? Do you not know what magnetic particle testing is or what its for?

Do you use your gun for anything other than range use? You must not!!!!!!

Please, go take a Larry Vickers, Pat Rogers, or MP Dynamics class....your gun won't make it half way through the first day! You will hold up the line with your malfunctions, you will have to replace multiple parts, hell you may need a whole new upper right after! I would love to see the look on your face when Pat Rogers is screaming at you while you are having to clear more malfunctions than anyone else!!! "DON"T SAVE YOUR F**KING LIFE OR ANYTHING!!!!!"

I love it when guys get a super "deal" on a upper or rifle kit and think its the ****ing greatest thing ever! Like its actually as good as everything else:rolleyes: Please!



OP, Delton sucks!!! IT SUCKS!!!!

CMMG is much, much better and CMMG isn't really even that great in comparison to others so that says a lot right there.

A CMMG can make it though. It has all the makings of something that could be really great if the company put a little more into it.

tacticalcity
11-16-2009, 4:43 AM
If those bad guys are always going to be made out of paper, and only show up every now again. Get the Del-Ton.

If someday the bad guys might have a pulse and be shooting back, or those paper bad guys show up regularly get the CMMG.

Del-Ton is an entry level plinker AR that meets the ordinary guy's needs just fine, but does not exceed them. Even if you upgrade your Del-Ton barrel to chrome lined it will not include the chamber. Only the barrel will be chrome lined.

CMMG is a professional's AR. The CMMG will last longer. Get the one with the 1/7 twist and it will be capable handling match grade ammo and thus will be more accurate. Even CMMGs cheapest most entry level AR has a coated barrel that will outlast the entry level Del-Ton barrel. If you get their Chrome lined upper the chrome lining will include the chamber. I personally choose to stick to their 1/7 Chrome Lined uppers.

I have nothing bad to say about either company or either product. Its just that you might as well be asking if a Corvette is really worth the extra money when an Eclipse looks cool. They might both look sporty, but there is a significant difference between the two.

You may never need that difference, but it is nice to know it is there.

technique
11-16-2009, 12:00 PM
Crawfish141,

Lets look at the specs and compare. They are not hidden, they are no secret, they are available to everyone. There really is no excuse for not knowing about the technical specifications of a weapon you are planning on purchasing…let alone not knowing the specs AFTER a purchase.

I congratulate you on your effort to learn.

A few things you may want to know that should be considered about your purchase. The AR-15 series weapon is a copy of the M16/M4 series military rifle. Make no mistake, the AR-15 is a civilian legal death dealer, it’s a combat weapon system. There are specs that should be followed in order to make your AR-15 no different from a military issue M4/M16. Lets compare CMMG VS. Delton.

Barrel:

CMMG: Mil-spec certified 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel M4 contour barrel 1/7 twist. Chrome lined. MPI tested/HPT tested. 11 degree recessed target crown. Parked under the FSB. F marked FSB.

Delton: 4140 Chrome Moly Steel, 1/9 twist, M4 contour.Not chrome lined. Not parked under FSB. No record of testing.

What does this mean to you?:
4150(CMMG) is a stronger steel. Heat is arguably the #1 enemy of a barrel in terms of longevity. 4140(Delton) will not last you as long as 4150 will especially during sustained fire. (as the weapon was designed for)

MPI testing:

This is done to insure that there are no cracks or weak points in the barrel its self so that when it gets to you, the consumer..you can be sure there is no damage or weak points that are potentially problematic down the road. CMMG does this, Delton does NOT!

HPT testing:

This is subjecting the barrel to high pressure. It is done to ensure the barrel can handle a bit of over pressure that may happen in extreme use, and a test to see if it fails. CMMG does this, Delton does not.

OK, lets move on to the other crucial portion of the upper, the bolt.

Bolt:

CMMG: These too are MPI/HPT tested in batches by CMMG.

Delton: Nope!

What does this mean to you?:

Same as described above for the barrels, they are tested to ensure durability and longevity. Remember, these are combat weapons they are supposed to be designed as such.

Upper:

CMMG: M4 feed ramps

Delton: No extended M4 feed ramps.

Are you picking up what I’m putting down here? If not…There is a specification to what a good battle rifle should be and key points that it should have. Neither CMMG nor Delton are in the spec. CMMG is close, a few minor upgrades and you are there! Delton falls so short of the spec…it shouldn’t even be considered an AR. As a matter of fact the Delton uses the same type of barrel steel as a Keltec.

You can’t accomplish any of the tasks an AR is designed for with a Delton. Its barrel will fail with rapid fire and the heat caused by rapid fire. Its bolt will fail under the same circumstances. Ask around..Non MP bolts are a failure waiting to happen. They will crack if not shatter when used like they should be. These companies like Delton, Stag, M1S, Olympic, RRA, S&W are cutting so many corners its not even funny…its not a value, it’s a liability.

If you want a weapon for HD, zombie apocalypse, SHTF,training or competition…Delton ain’t gonna cut it dude. If you want a gun that looks cool, goes from your safe to your case to a bench…goes bang, back to your case then back to your safe…maybe Delton is for you. But, knowing what I told you above…can you see why CMMG is well worth the extra $100?

tomd1584
11-16-2009, 12:32 PM
Crawfish141,

Lets look at the specs and compare. They are not hidden, they are no secret, they are available to everyone. There really is no excuse for not knowing about the technical specifications of a weapon you are planning on purchasing…let alone not knowing the specs AFTER a purchase.

I congratulate you on your effort to learn.

A few things you may want to know that should be considered about your purchase. The AR-15 series weapon is a copy of the M16/M4 series military rifle. Make no mistake, the AR-15 is a civilian legal death dealer, it’s a combat weapon system. There are specs that should be followed in order to make your AR-15 no different from a military issue M4/M16. Lets compare CMMG VS. Delton.

Barrel:

CMMG: Mil-spec certified 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel M4 contour barrel 1/7 twist. Chrome lined. MPI tested/HPT tested. 11 degree recessed target crown. Parked under the FSB. F marked FSB.

Delton: 4140 Chrome Moly Steel, 1/9 twist, M4 contour.Not chrome lined. Not parked under FSB. No record of testing.

What does this mean to you?:
4150(CMMG) is a stronger steel. Heat is arguably the #1 enemy of a barrel in terms of longevity. 4140(Delton) will not last you as long as 4150 will especially during sustained fire. (as the weapon was designed for)

MPI testing:

This is done to insure that there are no cracks or weak points in the barrel its self so that when it gets to you, the consumer..you can be sure there is no damage or weak points that are potentially problematic down the road. CMMG does this, Delton does NOT!

HPT testing:

This is subjecting the barrel to high pressure. It is done to ensure the barrel can handle a bit of over pressure that may happen in extreme use, and a test to see if it fails. CMMG does this, Delton does not.

OK, lets move on to the other crucial portion of the upper, the bolt.

Bolt:

CMMG: These too are MPI/HPT tested in batches by CMMG.

Delton: Nope!

What does this mean to you?:

Same as described above for the barrels, they are tested to ensure durability and longevity. Remember, these are combat weapons they are supposed to be designed as such.

Upper:

CMMG: M4 feed ramps

Delton: No extended M4 feed ramps.

Are you picking up what I’m putting down here? If not…There is a specification to what a good battle rifle should be and key points that it should have. Neither CMMG nor Delton are in the spec. CMMG is close, a few minor upgrades and you are there! Delton falls so short of the spec…it shouldn’t even be considered an AR. As a matter of fact the Delton uses the same type of barrel steel as a Keltec.

You can’t accomplish any of the tasks an AR is designed for with a Delton. Its barrel will fail with rapid fire and the heat caused by rapid fire. Its bolt will fail under the same circumstances. Ask around..Non MP bolts are a failure waiting to happen. They will crack if not shatter when used like they should be. These companies like Delton, Stag, M1S, Olympic, RRA, S&W are cutting so many corners its not even funny…its not a value, it’s a liability.

If you want a weapon for HD, zombie apocalypse, SHTF,training or competition…Delton ain’t gonna cut it dude. If you want a gun that looks cool, goes from your safe to your case to a bench…goes bang, back to your case then back to your safe…maybe Delton is for you. But, knowing what I told you above…can you see why CMMG is well worth the extra $100?

Very well put.

mif_slim
11-16-2009, 2:35 PM
Here, put it this way, people say DPMS is crap and shouldnt be in the AR base business, but I have two and they work just as good as my Yankee Hill and CMMG. As a matter of fact one of the DPMS shoots tighter group then the YHM and the CMMG while the other is equally comparable. Whats the difference? The name.

technique
11-16-2009, 2:48 PM
Here, put it this way, people say DPMS is crap and shouldnt be in the AR base business, but I have two and they work just as good as my Yankee Hill and CMMG. As a matter of fact one of the DPMS shoots tighter group then the YHM and the CMMG while the other is equally comparable. Whats the difference? The name.

Let me guess....its the one in your sig-line?

Ding126
11-16-2009, 3:01 PM
Good info......

But you forget were are in KA...10 rnd mags, no NFA...Them rifles ain't gettin too hot during "cough cough" rapid fire 10 rnds at a time.

You just rained on my stag parade..lol

technique
11-16-2009, 3:41 PM
Good info......

But you forget were are in KA...10 rnd mags, no NFA...Them rifles ain't gettin too hot during "cough cough" rapid fire 10 rnds at a time.

Featureless man, featureless!
When I was in Ca, I always went to neighboring states to attend classes anyway, or to classes that had RAWs for use. I highly recommend you and everyone else do the same if at all possible.

You just rained on my stag parade..lol

Stag still uses the 4140 barrel steel but...like CMMG their barrels and bolts are MPI/HPT tested, all in batches though. They do in fact park under the FSB so no corners cut there...They don't offer M4 feed ramps on their M4gery though.

You can't really do much about the barrel steel but if you trust their batch testing on the bolt then the best thing you can do as an upgrade is add a Black extractor spring insert.

The only thing CMMG has on Stag is that they MPI EVERY barrel, have those feed ramps and use that 4150 barrel steel.

The Stag has 1/9 and CMMG has 1/7 but thats just preference.




Stag is still a step above the Delton as you can see.:)

mif_slim
11-16-2009, 4:18 PM
Let me guess....its the one in your sig-line?

As a matter of fact it is. But since when did selling a firearm to provide funds for my new born boy means it's bad?

technique
11-16-2009, 4:40 PM
As a matter of fact it is. But since when did selling a firearm to provide funds for my new born boy means it's bad?

It has more to do with your lack of fact, and lack of knowledge of the AR platform....you see you are comparing a Stainless steel 24in BB, chambered in .223...to 2 Chrome lined barrels in 5.56.

Please don't take it wrong, but your lack of technical aspects are what is contributing to the FUD when you comment like you did.., its not an accurate statement (your comparison in your above post).

Its not even relevant.


Its like me walking into your printing business with 2 printers and a scanner. I would then proceed to tell you my scanner is a printer and its better than your printers. When in fact...its not, and its not even a printer!

See, we are comparing apples to apples. You just brought 2 apples and a pumpkin...you can't pass a pumpkin off as an apple!

mif_slim
11-16-2009, 5:22 PM
It has more to do with your lack of fact, and lack of knowledge of the AR platform....you see you are comparing a Stainless steel 24in BB, chambered in .223...to 2 Chrome lined barrels in 5.56.

Please don't take it wrong, but your lack of technical aspects are what is contributing to the FUD when you comment like you did.., its not an accurate statement (your comparison in
your above post).

Its not even relevant
Its like me walking into your printing business with 2 printers and a scanner. I would then proceed to tell you my scanner is a printer and its better than your printers. When in fact...its not, and its not even a printer!

See, we are comparing apples to apples. You just brought 2 apples and a pumpkin...you can't pass a pumpkin off as an apple!
So you are saying that a dpms isn't an ar? What's the diffrence in the design if you don't mind telling me?
From previous post, obviously your a brand person. scratch the brand name on an ar and it will be an ar with no brand. Yes, they are made of diffrent metal alloy, yes company has diffrent assimblies and tollerance check etc. But in the end, it's still an ar. Even if china made it, it's still an ar.
An apple is a fruit, a pumkin is a cultivar, at least use a fruit for a fruit to compare because at least they are related while a fruit and cultivar has nothing in common.

technique
11-16-2009, 5:48 PM
So you are saying that a dpms isn't an ar?

Its an AR, but the comparison here is a M4 style CMMG vs. Delton (16in chrome lined) these are built to a military spec...at least they should be!

What's the difference in the design if you don't mind telling me?

The difference is that your DPMS is specifically built as a civilian model gun. It has no spec to compare to. It has no roll in the Military. The M4 does!
What you said about it (DPMS) being more accurate was correct. That is because it is a stainless barrel and chambered in a civi style chamber (.223).
Its built for guys to go to the range with and target shoot.

Comparing it to chrome lined 5.56 chambered guns...well its comparing apples to oranges. The stainless barrel is designed to be accurate, the tighter chamber tolerances are for accuracy too. That right there would make it jam up in a dirty dusty environment.

The two barrels are two tools for different jobs.

From previous post, obviously your a brand person.

No, I am not a brand name person. I am a quality person. I don't care who makes it so long as it is made well.

scratch the brand name on an ar and it will be an ar with no brand. Yes, they are made of diffrent metal alloy, yes company has diffrent assimblies and tollerance check etc. But in the end, it's still an ar. Even if china made it, it's still an ar.

Please refer above...yes it is an AR, but you are trying to compare a Military style AR to a recreational style AR. Colt, BCM, Noveske, DD, Charles D, Saber, DPMS, Stag, Olympic, Delton...etc all make copies of Mil-spec weapons <~~~~ this is whats being compared here.

If you want to compare a DPMS for example to the CMMG-Delton in question,
The accurate comparison would be DPMS AP4-C.


An apple is a fruit, a pumkin is a cultivar, at least use a fruit for a fruit to compare because at least they are related while a fruit and cultivar has nothing in common.


The DPMS you are trying to compare really has very little in common at all with the other rifles in question here...I hope, by my statments in bold, that is a bit clearer.:)

To me the DPMS in question is still a pumpkin.

vinny_land
11-16-2009, 10:17 PM
For the price range...
BCM>CMMG>Stag>DPMS>Del-Ton

missiontrails
11-17-2009, 9:29 AM
Let me guess....its the one in your sig-line?

:kest:

TwitchALot
11-17-2009, 11:45 AM
For the price range...
BCM>CMMG>Stag>DPMS>Del-Ton

Particularly with BCM's Christmas pricing. -_-

4D5auto
11-17-2009, 2:43 PM
My CMMG lowers run great! I have a CMMG SPR upper on order, back since March 09, HAVEN'T seen it yet!!!!!! Good luck ordering from CMMG the way you want it, to order. Expect a year wait! My GG&G Dominator with CMMG lower run flawless!

lumwilliam
11-20-2009, 9:50 PM
Hey Atlantic Firearms - I think it would be awesome if you would chime in on some of the info sited that flames Del-ton. Thoughts?

ar15barrels
11-21-2009, 7:06 AM
An apple is a fruit, a pumkin is a cultivar,
at least use a fruit for a fruit to compare because at least they are related while a fruit and cultivar has nothing in common.

Technique...

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/153/855109~You-Got-Served-Posters.jpg

technique
11-21-2009, 7:09 AM
Technique...

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/153/855109~You-Got-Served-Posters.jpg

Well, I guess...an M1 carbine and an M1 garand are the same thing right?
They are both M1's you know!

ar15barrels
11-21-2009, 7:11 AM
Well, I guess...an M1 carbine and an M1 garand are the same thing right?
They are both M1's you know!

1 One is a rifle and the other is a carbine.
It's all right there in the official name. ;)

javalos
11-21-2009, 9:08 AM
I'm going to have to chime in here for Del-Ton, I have a friend that got a Del-Ton flat top mid-upper and mated it with a Kaiser Defense lower for a perfect fit. Even though the front post isn't marked with "F", she had no issues zeroing with a GG&G MAD Flip-Up Rear Sight and she barely made front sight adjustments to get it right on at 50 yards. She used a red dot optic for co-witness. She had no feeding problems or extraction issues which is what all of use look for primarily.

When my Del-Ton flat-top Mid-upper came in, I mated it with a Rock River Arms lower for a perfect fit. I installed a version 6 UTG carry handle which by the way operated better than other more expensive carry handles and held zero. Took only 4 rounds using a standard U.S. Army procedure to zero with no feeding or extraction issues. It hit dead on nuts consistently at 300 meters.

No doubt CMMG is a better upper, given the specs, especially since the specs on the upper advertise M-4 feed ramps for added reliability. Even though DelTon is less expensive, it will come through for you if your life depends on it.

hawk81
11-21-2009, 11:14 AM
Get a CMMG. But both are quality uppers.

paratroop
12-04-2009, 4:41 AM
Took only 4 rounds using a standard U.S. Army procedure to zero

using army sop to zero takes a minimum of 9 rounds. 6 first, then three more to make sure you are grouped good. and 8 out of 9 rounds have to be in the black. unless it changed recently

Ding126
02-20-2010, 11:24 AM
bump

C_1
02-20-2010, 2:15 PM
CMMG over Delton any day. Get a BCM and never look back :)

juelz919
02-20-2010, 7:26 PM
My Del-Ton works beautifully an has never failed me.
There is alot of hate out there towards del-ton but I have heard very few complaints from DTI owners other than that they waited forever..
So it's your call mate

Maint.man
06-12-2010, 9:57 AM
what do you think of the cmmg4 upper and lower and LPK

Sunday
06-12-2010, 3:49 PM
Yep, the best That would be BCM and Colt . The others may come kinda close and most below.

MissionMTMan
06-12-2010, 7:42 PM
Okay. Buy an LMT, BCM, Noveske or KAC. That's it. No more comments. Buy once cry once. I know they are expensive, I know you probably can't afford it but.... That's what saving is for. I remember when I ate top ramen and pb&j so I could buy my first ACOG. When I got it, it was all worth it. If you have a family, that makes things a little more complicated...haha

Crawfish141
06-12-2010, 10:04 PM
Okay. Buy an LMT, BCM, Noveske or KAC. That's it. No more comments. Buy once cry once. I know they are expensive, I know you probably can't afford it but.... That's what saving is for. I remember when I ate top ramen and pb&j so I could buy my first ACOG. When I got it, it was all worth it. If you have a family, that makes things a little more complicated...haha

LOL, this thread is still alive!

Also I ended up with a mix master gun and couldn't have been happier.

BCM mid-length Upper
BCM charging handle
Troy BUIS
DD bolt group
Cavalry arms hand guards
Vltor Emod stock
Prince50 Bullet Button

Have ~1000 rounds downrange and couldn't be happier, 0 failures of an kind.

http://i46.tinypic.com/5wic0l.png

MissionMTMan
06-13-2010, 8:29 AM
Very nice!

twinjetguy
06-13-2010, 11:43 AM
You know, it is possible to build a "decent" rifle using some Del Ton parts and parts from other companies. I purchased a Del Ton upper for my A2 build and it has worked great. Saying that, I chose not to buy their bolt carrier group. I used a spare Rock River Arms one that I had already. Mounted it to a KD lower and it works great.

I see people in this thread saying that the Del Ton barrel isn't chrome lined and it doesn't have M4 style feed ramps. That isn't accurate. If you don't choose those options from them then it won't have them. Del Ton gives you TONS of options to choose from. I ordered mine with a chrome lined barrel and M4 feed ramps.

For the record, I am not here trying to say Del Ton is the same quality as say LMT. A lot of people use Del Ton without any problems at all. I do get a laugh from all the people saying Noveske is the best because Noveske farms out pretty much all of their stuff. JD Machine was making their lowers for awhile and they get all their upper parts from other manufacturers. Don't get me wrong, Noveske BUILDS a nice rifle, but other companies make their parts for them.

1377
06-13-2010, 12:21 PM
If you buy cheap it's usually cheap! So buy that pum:clown:kin and make some pumkin pie...

twinjetguy
06-13-2010, 2:05 PM
If you buy cheap it's usually cheap! So buy that pum:clown:kin and make some pumkin pie...

Sometimes people are on a budget, it happens, it's life. Not everyone can afford top of the line stuff. I myself am at a point where I can afford the "good" stuff but I still appreciate the more affordable parts out there. Here are a few that I have built...Tan one is on a Mega Machine billet upper/lower btw. The A2 is the one that I purchased the Del Ton Rifle kit for, and it now has a full chrome lined RRA bolt carrier group it. The rifle shoots great. The one on the end to the left is a work in progress, yes I know it needs the A2 stock, lol. Working on it.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n308/twinjetguy/ARFamily.jpg

thrillhouse700
06-13-2010, 2:25 PM
your a fan of the CTR as am I now :)

abusalim81
06-13-2010, 10:17 PM
I'd go with CMMG

Joe
06-13-2010, 10:26 PM
I'd go with cmmg

daveyshooter
06-14-2010, 3:22 PM
I have bought a lot of parts from Del-Ton, and not 1 has failed or mis-matched.

The only bad thing I can say about CMMG is that they teflon coated a batch of lowers, and the holes were too small for the milspec pins. I saw that on someone else's rifle that he was trying to put together.

I told him to drill them out to mil spec sizes, then he'd be good to go.
As for lowers, all of mine are Stag. They work, so why change?

I know you are wondering about uppers, but I though I'd add my 2 cents.

Good luck.

HUND
06-14-2010, 7:25 PM
Good thread

I have a Del-Ton M4 16" kit on a S&W lower

Great gun never had a issue and I shoot mostly Tula ammo

MissionMTMan
06-14-2010, 9:03 PM
You know, it is possible to build a "decent" rifle using some Del Ton parts and parts from other companies. I purchased a Del Ton upper for my A2 build and it has worked great. Saying that, I chose not to buy their bolt carrier group. I used a spare Rock River Arms one that I had already. Mounted it to a KD lower and it works great.

I see people in this thread saying that the Del Ton barrel isn't chrome lined and it doesn't have M4 style feed ramps. That isn't accurate. If you don't choose those options from them then it won't have them. Del Ton gives you TONS of options to choose from. I ordered mine with a chrome lined barrel and M4 feed ramps.

For the record, I am not here trying to say Del Ton is the same quality as say LMT. A lot of people use Del Ton without any problems at all. I do get a laugh from all the people saying Noveske is the best because Noveske farms out pretty much all of their stuff. JD Machine was making their lowers for awhile and they get all their upper parts from other manufacturers. Don't get me wrong, Noveske BUILDS a nice rifle, but other companies make their parts for them.




Let me school you with Noveske. The SWS rails they use are built to their specs and SWS doesn't sell that rail to anyone else. That is strictly Noveske's. All of their barrels are made on NOVESKE tooling. Noveske has many patents concerning their feed ramps, use a different type steel than other companies, better rifling etc... You can say they contract all of their parts out but that is far from the truth. Make sure you know what you're talking about before you open your mouth. This forum is to inform people about the truth, not bs they heard over at Arfcom. If you don't believe me, read the interview David Crane had with John Noveske Here (http://www.defensereview.com/noveske-rifleworks-n4-light-recce-carbine-john-noveske-interview-part-one/)

MissionMTMan
06-14-2010, 9:06 PM
I apologize for being so rude but comments like yours just hurt good companies like John Noveske's. That man has worked too damn hard to have people spouting the wrong information about his good company. We need more business owners like John in this world.

chefdude
06-14-2010, 9:22 PM
I kick myself for selling my Delton both upper and lower locked up tight..great carbine, much better than my Stag and RRA

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/crazypants2006/delton002.jpg

Raptor1Ronin
06-15-2010, 6:48 AM
I love Both My CMMG and Stag! Go with CMMG.

650IS350
06-15-2010, 10:23 AM
Just bought me a CMMG piston to match with my Stag lower.

twinjetguy
06-15-2010, 11:17 AM
Let me school you with Noveske. The SWS rails they use are built to their specs and SWS doesn't sell that rail to anyone else. That is strictly Noveske's. All of their barrels are made on NOVESKE tooling. Noveske has many patents concerning their feed ramps, use a different type steel than other companies, better rifling etc... You can say they contract all of their parts out but that is far from the truth. Make sure you know what you're talking about before you open your mouth. This forum is to inform people about the truth, not bs they heard over at Arfcom. If you don't believe me, read the interview David Crane had with John Noveske Here (http://www.defensereview.com/noveske-rifleworks-n4-light-recce-carbine-john-noveske-interview-part-one/)

I apologize for being so rude but comments like yours just hurt good companies like John Noveske's. That man has worked too damn hard to have people spouting the wrong information about his good company. We need more business owners like John in this world.

Ok, I own what I said. I never once said that Noveske makes a bad product. I know they are great rifles. I might have gotten a bit ahead of myself on my last statement. I do think it is silly that a Noveske Lower that is made by JD machine costs nearly $190 where the JD can be picked up for $99. Exact same aluminum made on the exact same machine with different engraving yet it costs $90 more? That is the point I am trying to make. Sure Noveske has some parts that are much better quality, but a lot (not all) of the parts they use can be picked up for much cheaper and the exact quality.

Not trying to bad mouth their company in any way at all. If money isn't an issue for you at all, by all means go Noveske. If I was loaded, I would pick one up just for the hell of it. If you are on a slight budget, it is possible to build something near the quality for quite a bit less.

For the record, I don't even read ar15forums.com or any other forums except for cal guns. I have found a lot of the info I have by dealing directly with people who have quite a background with firearms. Not saying it makes me right and you wrong, just saying.

Anyway, back to the Del Ton vs CMMG thread. I have used some Del Ton products and have had good luck with them. Not taking away from CMMG at all.

4D5auto
06-15-2010, 12:56 PM
Interesting, I still haven't heard anyone talk about GG&G Uppers.. This is an outstanding, quality Upper, already outfitted in a necessary configuration and very accurate! I am now sold on that brand. I am more than impressed with GG&G as likewise with my CMMG SPR. IMO, these rank right up there in the top 5! Again, just MHO!

MissionMTMan
06-15-2010, 2:47 PM
Ok, I own what I said. I never once said that Noveske makes a bad product. I know they are great rifles. I might have gotten a bit ahead of myself on my last statement. I do think it is silly that a Noveske Lower that is made by JD machine costs nearly $190 where the JD can be picked up for $99. Exact same aluminum made on the exact same machine with different engraving yet it costs $90 more? That is the point I am trying to make. Sure Noveske has some parts that are much better quality, but a lot (not all) of the parts they use can be picked up for much cheaper and the exact quality.

Not trying to bad mouth their company in any way at all. If money isn't an issue for you at all, by all means go Noveske. If I was loaded, I would pick one up just for the hell of it. If you are on a slight budget, it is possible to build something near the quality for quite a bit less.

For the record, I don't even read ar15forums.com or any other forums except for cal guns. I have found a lot of the info I have by dealing directly with people who have quite a background with firearms. Not saying it makes me right and you wrong, just saying.

Anyway, back to the Del Ton vs CMMG thread. I have used some Del Ton products and have had good luck with them. Not taking away from CMMG at all.



I totally agree with you on some items.haha For example, I buy blemished DSA lowers for $60, RRA 2 stage for $80 etc. But when it comes to my upper I buy Noveske. I should point out my brother owned a Del ton upper and it shot great. I had a lot of trigger time behind it and felt it held great groups (.75 MOA actually.) It was a great little rifle that really did get the job done. It didn't even have m4 feedramps. They are not bad rifles and will most certainly get the job done for someone that goes to the range once a month to shoot paper. If you get serious, look at Noveske. If you're serious on a budget, get an LMT. As a matter a fact, if anyone wants an LMT, pm me and I'll get you an LMT upper for $400. I am kind of the paranoid type that always wants to have the best on hand if something goes down. Remember, I'm a Montana country boy.haha I won't trust my life to a Del-ton or even a CMMG. Give me a Noveske and an Eotech and I'll be good. Buy once, cry once.

rojocorsa
06-15-2010, 3:43 PM
Here is a little something I learned about Del Ton.

http://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,9712.0.html

MissionMTMan
06-16-2010, 3:24 AM
Here is a little something I learned about Del Ton.

http://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,9712.0.html


Yep, doesn't surprise me. You get what you pay for.

railroader
06-16-2010, 5:07 AM
Here is a little something I learned about Del Ton.

http://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,9712.0.html

This is about one upper. It wouldn't run right on brass case ammo so he sent it back. It still didn't run right when he got it back so he should of sent it back again. He should included some of the damaged brass with "fix it, replace it, or refund my money". His post is on this forum years later wanting to know about a fix. There always 2 sides to a story too. Mark

thrillhouse700
06-16-2010, 8:55 AM
This is about one upper. It wouldn't run right on brass case ammo so he sent it back. It still didn't run right when he got it back so he should of sent it back again. He should included some of the damaged brass with "fix it, replace it, or refund my money". His post is on this forum years later wanting to know about a fix. There always 2 sides to a story too. Mark

I'm not defending del-ton, but doesn't matter what company it is or what they make there will always be a few bad apples. Now if he sent it back a second time and Del-Ton handled him with good customer service then i would see no problem. I bought a del-ton, should be here monday or tuesday I will report back with any problems.