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View Full Version : A Romanian Conservative Politician On The Right To Keep And Bear Arms


.454
05-18-2009, 9:39 AM
Source (http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot.com/2009/05/romanian-conservative-on-right-to-keep.html)

One of the blogs of merit I discovered belongs to a young and bright Romanian named Bogdan Duca and it is called The New Conservatism (http://romanianneocon.wordpress.com/)

The article that attracted my attention to his blog was Do I Scare You? The Values I Stubbornly Hold On To (http://romanianneocon.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/sa-va-speriu-valorile-de-la-care-ma-incapatanez-sa-nu-abdic/) in which the author presents his conservative political credo - and trust me my friends, after reading his blog entry I believe this Romanian gentlemen could make a great chairman for the RNC or for the American conservative movement of today which is sorely missing a good and charismatic leader.
Too bad he's not an American and he is living in a small country of which most Americans heard nothing about but stories about Dracula or that it produced a talented gymnast from the 70's named Nadia Comaneci.

So after reading his very interesting essay I posted a very short question on the comments section which sounded like this:


"What is your position in regards to the right of the regular citizens to own firearms?"


His response was crystal clear, to the object and had a healthy dose of logic and common sense - things that are sorely missed by the enlightened and well educated anti-gun liberal American elites of today:



http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/1186/bogdanduca1.jpg
"I believe in the right of citizens to defend their lives and property. As a consequence, I believe people have the right to own guns - because guns are the tools required to defend themselves and their property.
Moreover, considering the rising number of violent crimes in Romania it is absurd not to allow honest and law abiding citizens the right and the means of self defense.
I am profoundly impressed by the US Constitution which not only allows, but in a sense mandates the citizens right to own and bear arms in order so they could defend themselves against a tyrannical government."

Can we bring this guy to America and give him citizenship? Or at least support him to run for President of Romania two years from now?

nick
05-18-2009, 10:14 AM
Sure. Is he downtrodden/worthless/pitiful enough to get through the INS/ICE? Well, then there's also the option of crossing the southern border, of course. He better not have a degree though, or else he's not likely to get in.

.454
05-18-2009, 11:06 AM
Sure. Is he downtrodden/worthless/pitiful enough to get through the INS/ICE? Well, then there's also the option of crossing the southern border, of course. He better not have a degree though, or else he's not likely to get in.

He's actually a Ph.D and believes in personal responsibility and self reliance. Guess that disqualifies him from the get go. That's not something the current political leaders would want in a newcomer.

I was just joking about bringing him here. This guy will run for an EU Parliamentarian seat. Let's wish him good luck.

nick
05-18-2009, 11:11 AM
He's actually a Ph.D and believes in personal responsibility and self reliance. Guess that disqualifies him from the get go. That's not something the current political leaders would want in a newcomer.

I was just joking about bringing him here. This guy will run for an EU Parliamentarian seat. Let's wish him good luck.

Heh, with that platform I'm sure he'll be popular there, if elected. But then, the core of the Danish EU delegation consists of the members of a party with the only stated goal of opposing/dismantling the EU :)

Legasat
05-18-2009, 11:14 AM
He is obviously a right wing extremist - according to the DHS....

We need more like him!

garandguy10
05-18-2009, 1:20 PM
I would doubt that England will let him in either.........

JarenC81
05-18-2009, 3:56 PM
Is there even a gun control debate in Romania? It would seem a prudent discussion to have considering the soviet and communist occupation in their recent history.

.454
05-18-2009, 4:58 PM
Is there even a gun control debate in Romania? It would seem a prudent discussion to have considering the soviet and communist occupation in their recent history.

Actually, I don't think so...yet.
You see, before the Soviet communization of Romania, the people had the right to have guns. I remember my father telling me my granfather owned a double barreled shotgun he used to hunt doves and rabbits with and a Luger pistol from when the German troops were retreating - they were getting rid of all the equipment by simply throwing it out of the troop transport trains.
When the communists took power in 1947 following falsified elections, the first law they enacted was total gun confiscation (for the greater good of course). Then after they made sure the population was disarmed they started the arrests, imprisonments, reeducation camps and killings. So practically since 1947 it was illegal to own any firearms in communist Romania. The only exception was for hunting purposes: only shotguns with a special permit form the police, must be a member of a hunting association and the guns registered and locked at the police station.
After so many years of restrictions and servitude for over two generations, the perception of the Romanian population about gun rights changed in worse; I must admit when I first came to the US I too was surprised to see how owning guns is something normal and affordable and I too believed guns in the hands of untrained people can be dangerous (keep in mind I served 2 years in the military so I was familiar with firearms) Luckily I was educated in the principles of the 2nd Amendment by a friend and that's how I got my first gun - a Glock 21.

JarenC81
05-18-2009, 5:49 PM
Yeah the Romanian story is one that I think should be told more often. It's amazing to hear some of the things that went on under communism.

Out of curiosity, when the soviet troops occupied Romania and dismantled the army and installed their commnist regime how would the 2a have prevented that? I only ask since my parents always seem to come back to pistols are no match for tanks argument. Just curious on your thoughts (my grandparents lived through the occupation in Romania)

.454
05-18-2009, 6:57 PM
Yeah the Romanian story is one that I think should be told more often. It's amazing to hear some of the things that went on under communism.

Out of curiosity, when the soviet troops occupied Romania and dismantled the army and installed their commnist regime how would the 2a have prevented that? I only ask since my parents always seem to come back to pistols are no match for tanks argument. Just curious on your thoughts (my grandparents lived through the occupation in Romania)

I am glad to answer your question. When the Soviets brought the communists to power in 1946/47 one of the the first things they did was to confiscate all firearms. (as a side note: the Russians actually had to bring with them from the USSR the entire leadership of the Romanian Communist Party because there weren't enough "capable comrades" to be found locally. They had to replace their Russian names with Romanian names and the most strange thing was none of the leaders of the Romanian Communist Party was speaking Romanian).
Anyway, after so many years of war and occupation the overwhelming majority of the people were sick and tired of the war; so they believed what the propaganda of the new regime was telling them. They were lied that the government will protect them, that guns must be surrendered for their own safety, that since the war is over there is no need for guns anymore and since they will start a new life as owners and rulers of the People's Republic (that sounds very tempting - the Republic of the People, isn't it?) they have no need for guns since the people are making the laws and enforce the rules.

So believing that crap, the vast majority of the population voluntarily surrendered their guns. Next thing you know in 1947/48, the communists started making arrests. Leaders and members of the opposition Parties, all officers in the military, intellectuals, clergy, anybody with relatives abroad, writers and artists, farmers like my grand dad and business owners; in other words the cream of the Romanian citizenry got imprisoned, sentenced to life, interned in reeducation camps, killed or simply disappeared forever.

As it turned out, not all Romanians turned their guns in. There was a small number of patriots who knew what was about to happen. Among them there were a number of capable military officers who fled when the communists started making arrests, some peasants and workers plus in the region where I am from, members of a national minority named Aromani (or Macedo-Romani). These people who speak a language that is considered proto (ancient)-Romanian are tracking their origins to Alexander The Great; they are very tough and determined individuals, good businessmen who made decent money in sheep herding and trading goods - but not only. You could compare their character and toughness with the Americans living in the Appalachian mountains.
So these merry bands of armed Romanians took arms and retreated in the Carpathian mountains; they called themselves "haiduci" (spell hayduchy) and they were the Romanian version of Tito's Partizans - only they were fighting the Soviet and the Communist Romanian army. Their guns were whatever they could get their hands on but they benefited from the support of the population in the small mountain villages where they were fighting.
The communists tactic to defeat them was to terrorize, infiltrate, arrest or displace the local population supporting them. They were using full auto AKM's tanks, machine guns and airplanes while the guerrilla fighters were using Mausers, a few Sten guns and boobytraps. Even like that - short in guns, ammunition, food and with diminished local support, these patriots continued their fight from 1947 until late 50's early 60's which is no small accomplishment. In fact, it is the longest lasting anti-communist armed resistance movement in the former Communist block.
By the time Ceausescu came to power in 1964 with a platform of de-Stalinization and reform, there were very few anti-communist fighters left alive. The new dictator promised an amnesty for everyone and those maybe a dozen freedom fighters still alive who were malnourished, beat up and tired to live on the run saw a chance to reunite with what was left of their families and took it. The promised American invasion never came to their rescue.

Do I believe guns would have helped stopping the communists? Depends on the number of guns and number of people. Keep in mind, the overwhelming majority of the population surrendered their arms, only a minuscule fraction of them chose to keep them and fight. At the time, the population of Romania was 14 million. Less than 10,000 of them took up arms and confronted the communists. That's 0.7% of the population, and while it wasn't enough to win it still was enough to keep the commies on on their toes for over 16 years.
So my sincere opinion is that yes, a reasonably small number of patriots (somewhere between 3%-4% of the population) well armed and having the support of the majority of the non-combatant population can have a real chance to overthrow a dictatorial regime over a number of years.

As another side note: I had the pleasure and honor to meet one of these great patriots who after being captured then released from prison emigrated to America and now lives in Whittier, less than 15 miles away from my home. As it happens I didn't knew his story in the beginning; his oldest daughter is my wife's best friend and we knew each other for a number of years but he never mentioned anything to me about his past. Only when one day I visited his home I noticed a framed piece of paper on the wall in his living room with his name on it and with the phrase "awarded by the Government of Romania in recognition to the sacrifice, courage and years of anti-communist fighting". That's when I asked him if he was one of the Aromanians who took up arms against communists and he told me he yes, he was.

If you are interested lo learn more about the anti-communist resistance in Romania there is a Wiki article here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_anti-communist_resistance_movement)

dwa
05-18-2009, 7:20 PM
I am glad to answer your question. When the Soviets brought the communists to power the first thing they did was to confiscate all firearms. (as a side note: the Russians actually had to bring with them from the USSR the entire leadership of the Romanian Communist Party because there weren't enough "capable comrades" to be found locally. They had to replace their Russian names with Romanian names and the most strange thing was none of the leaders of the Romanian Communist Party was speaking Romanian).
Anyway, after so many years of war and occupation the overwhelming majority of the people were sick and tired of the war; so they believed what the propaganda of the new regime was telling them. They were lied that the government will protect them, that guns must be surrendered for their own safety, that since the war is over there is no need for guns anymore and since they will start a new life as owners and rulers of the People's Republic (that sounds very tempting, right?) they have no need for guns since the people are making the rules.

So believing that crap, the vast majority of the population voluntarily surrendered their guns. Next thing you know, the communists started making arrests. Leaders and members of the opposition Parties, all officers in the military, intellectuals, clergy, anybody with relatives abroad, writers and artists, farmers like my grand dad and business owners; in other words the cream of the Romanian citizenry got imprisoned, sentenced to life, interned in reeducation camps, killed or simply disappeared forever.

As it turned out, not all Romanians turned their guns in. There was a small number of patriots who knew what was about to happen. Among them there were a number of capable military officers who fled when the communists started making arrests, some peasants and workers plus members of a national minority named Aromani (or Macedo-Romani). These people who are a mixture between Romanians and Macedonians are tracking their origins to Alexander The Great; they are very tough and determined individuals, good businessmen who made decent money in sheep herding and trading goods - but not only. You could compare their character and toughness with the Americans living in the Appalachian mountains.
So these merry bands of armed Romanians took arms and retreated in the Carpathian mountains; they were the Romanian version of Tito's Partizans, only they were fighting the Soviet and the Communist Romanian army. Their guns were whatever they could get their hands on but they benefited from the support of the population in the small mountain villages where they were fighting.
The communists tactic to defeat them was to terrorize, arrest or displace the local population supporting them. They were using full auto AKM's tanks, machine guns and airplanes while the guerrilla fighters were using Mausers, a few Sten guns and boobytraps. Even like that - short in guns, ammunition, food and with diminished local support, these patriots continued their fight until late 50's early 60's which is no small accomplishment. By 1964 when Ceausescu came to power with a platform of de-stalinization and reform, there were very few anti-communist fighters left alive. Ceausescu promised an amnesty for everyone and those maybe a dozen freedom fighters still alive who were malnourished, beat up and tired to live on the run saw a chance to reunite with what was left of their families and took it.

Do I believe guns would have helped stopping the communists? Depends on the number of guns and number of people. Keep in mind, the overwhelming majority of the population surrendered their arms, only a minuscule fraction of them chose to keep them and fight. At the time, the population of Romania was 14 million. Less than 2,000 of them took up arms and confronted the communists. That's 0.07%, and while it wasn't enough to win it still was enough to keep the commies on on their toes for over 16 years.
So my sincere opinion is that yes, a reasonably small number of patriots (somewhere between 3%-4% of the population) well armed and having the support of the majority of the non-combatant population can have a real chance to overthrow a dictatorial regime over a number of years.

i actually believe that unless able to match an opponent partisan tactics are extremely effective. i would say pistols would be vital as a way to remain armed while mixed in with he populace and as a means to acquire better weapons.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/M1942_liberator.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Deer_Gun_-_Vietnam_Pistol.jpg

N6ATF
05-19-2009, 12:42 AM
I only ask since my parents always seem to come back to pistols are no match for tanks argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Nelson

It might not say that the tank rampage was ended with a single shot from a pistol.

nick
05-19-2009, 1:04 AM
The worst mistake anyone can make is to underestimate guerilla warfare and light infantry in general.

DDT
05-19-2009, 2:03 AM
The worst mistake anyone can make is to underestimate guerilla lawsuits and CGF in general.

FYP

nick
05-19-2009, 2:11 AM
CGF is filing a RKBA lawsuit in Romania?

7x57
05-19-2009, 10:39 AM
CGF is filing a RKBA lawsuit in Romania?

I wish. It is quite clear that if we believe the logic of the 2A, effective self-defense is a transcendent human right and not simply an American legal right. And given the horrendous 20th century record of genocide against unarmed subjects, a very very practical one.

Unfortunately, we're fighting just to keep it alive in a country where the right is explicit. We haven't much time for, let's be terribly blunt here and say precisely what would horrify the rest of the world, exporting the revolution of 1776.

There is also a strong argument that Americans affect the world more by just being who they are than by doing or saying things abroad. And it's a terrible struggle just to force the federal courts to follow the law that protects who we are....

7x57