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NorCalGuy
06-06-2005, 6:25 PM
Is it legal to possess (shoot) an M1A that has a flash hider (real one, not CA job) and a bayonet lug?

My thinking is that it did not have to be registered as an assault weapon (the base M1A is legal). As it is legal to have (not buy) hi-caps mags I wonder if it's legal to have the flash hider on it?

Point is, if I can get one when I go out of state am I violating any laws? Is the possession of such a set-up illegal?

LongBch_SigP226
06-06-2005, 6:35 PM
It is legal to own as long as it was registered with CA DoJ prior to Jan 1,2000. It was banned for assault weapon characteristics and if you failed to register it, you are in possession of illegal weapon.
M1A you are referring to is a semiauto centerfire rifle that accepts detachable magazine and has flash suppressor which
is a banned weapon.

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/genchar.htm

colossians323
06-06-2005, 6:48 PM
Flash hider: Unless gun was registered before ban Illegal
Muzzlebreak: Legal in Kali
Regular Capacity Mags: Illegal to buy, legal if owned before 2000
Low Capacity Mags (10 rnd or less): Kali legal

NorCalGuy
06-06-2005, 7:06 PM
OK, so if you buy it out of state and take the flash hider off now it's legal? Bayonet lug doesn't matter.

bwiese
06-06-2005, 7:18 PM
Originally posted by NorCalGuy:
OK, so if you buy it out of state and take the flash hider off now it's legal? Bayonet lug doesn't matter.

Yes, bayonet lug and barrel threading are irrelevant for rifles in CA. (That was only for now-expired Federal AW ban, and threaded bbls are only no-nos on pistols in CA.

Do note that if you're a CA resident you can't 'buy' an M1A out of state and bring it into CA yourself. An FFL dealer out of state wouldn't sell to you directly, either - that's violating Fed and CA laws. You have to go thru a CA FFL.

And don't bring in any hicaps.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

colossians323
06-06-2005, 7:20 PM
Originally posted by NorCalGuy:
OK, so if you buy it out of state and take the flash hider off now it's legal? Bayonet lug doesn't matter.

I have bought a few M1A's from out of state, just have them remove the flashider when they ship it.
Bayo lug is part of the flashider

Mssr. Eleganté
06-06-2005, 7:22 PM
The bayonet lug doesn't matter in California. It is not a banned feature. But on an M1A, the bayonet lug is part of the flash hider assembly.

In theory you could weld a bayonet lug onto a California legal muzzlebreak if you wanted to.

A couple years ago, there was a guy reaming out USGI M14 flash hiders and then sleeving them so that they no longer worked as a flash hider. They were more of a barrel extension. He also used to grind off the sides of the bayonet lug so that they would be legal under the Clinton A/W ban but still have the profile of a real flash hider assembly. He claimed to have CalDOJ aproval for it as a non-flash hider. Now that the Clinton A/W ban has expired, he would be able to leave the bayonet lug functional on the sleeved flash hider for us Californians.

I don't remember who was doing this modification.

NorCalGuy
06-06-2005, 7:33 PM
Thanks. Why can't you buy an M1A out of state from a store?

Ok, so if I order one they can just pull the flash hider off and send it to my FFL.

DOes the Flash hider have any effect on accuracy? Does its absence negatively impact any shooting?

I suppose if I really wanted something on the end I could get one of Springfields CA legal breaks.

imported_Telpierion
06-06-2005, 7:56 PM
Whay go through the hassle of getting it out of state. You can get it here with the CA break already installed. I boubt any deal you find will be worth it after shipping and tranfer fees.

Technical Ted
06-06-2005, 9:05 PM
Originally posted by NorCalGuy:
Thanks. Why can't you buy an M1A out of state from a store?
Federal law says that you can go to gunstore in another state and by a gun as long as you comply with your state of residence's laws.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/newsletter/1202fflnewsletter.pdf
“CONTIGUOUS STATE”
The phrase “contiguous state” no longer has meaning under the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended. Nevertheless, it continues to confuse many long-time firearms dealers, especially when residents of other States visit their gun shops. For those who may not be familiar with this phrase, it appeared in the GCA prior to 1986. The “contiguous state” exception allowed FFLs to sell long guns to residents of contiguous states if the purchaser’s State of residence permitted such sale by law and the sale complied with the legal conditions of sale in both States. A State was “contiguous” to another State if it was adjacent to (bordering) that State. For example, Georgia and Alabama are in fact both contiguous to Florida, and the GCA formally recognized this and similar relationships.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/newsletter/ffl_newsltr_aug04.pdf

"CONTIGUOUS STATE – PART 2"
In an article that appeared in the December 2002 edition of the FFL Newsletter, we advised FFLs that the “contiguous state” provisions of the Gun Control Act were amended in 1986, and that the GCA allows dealers to sell or dispose of a long gun to a resident of another state provided, (1) the purchaser was not otherwise prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under the GCA, and ( 2) the sale, delivery and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in the buyer’s and seller’s States.

The condition of sale relating to compliance with the applicable laws of both States cited above continues to cause confusion among dealers, particularly among those dealers who conduct business in a State whose laws presently contain language that allows “contiguous state” sales. Historically, prior to the 1986 amendments to the GCA, many States enacted provisions in their laws that allowed their residents to acquire a long gun in a contiguous State. For the most part, these State law provisions were modeled after the contiguous state provisions of the GCA. However, even the sale of long guns to residents of any State pursuant to the conditions cited above, many States have not yet amended their laws to reflect similar language. ATF takes the position that if the laws of a given State allow its residents to acquire a long gun in a contiguous State, those laws also allow its residents to acquire a long gun in any other State where the laws of that State permit such transactions, unless the language contained in that State’s law expressly prohibits it residents from acquiring a firearm outside that State. Questions regarding particular State law provisions should be referred to your local ATF office.

Ergo, as a California resident you can't go to Nevada and buy an AR15 because: 1) California has banned them and 2) to comply with Californina law, the firearm would have to be shipped to a California FFL (and he couldn't accept it if he doesn't have an AW Dealer's permit).

Same goes for handguns: 1) It would have to be shipped to a CA dealer and 2) It would have to be on the CA DOJ's approved list.

Ok, so if I order one they can just pull the flash hider off and send it to my FFL.
If they're willing to do so.

DOes the Flash hider have any effect on accuracy? Does its absence negatively impact any shooting?
Yes, because if you have it removed, you've also removed the front sight base.

You'd have to replace the FS with a CA legal brake. I understand the tactical muzzle brake manufactured by Smith Enterprises is nice.

Muzzle brakes can have some affect on diminishing flash and still not be considered a Flash Suppressor. One instance is the ArmaLite muzzle brake: I've witnessed side by side test firings of AR15 muzzlebrakes and FS's comparing ArmaLite's, A2's, Smith brakes, Vortex's and Phantoms. The Armalite brake was nearly as effective as the A2 FS.

In reality, choice of ammo brand can help with flash reduction. Different manufacturers use different powders. Some have flash retardant, some don't.

I suppose if I really wanted something on the end I could get one of Springfields CA legal breaks.
B-R-A-K-E

LongBch_SigP226
06-06-2005, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by NorCalGuy:
Thanks. Why can't you buy an M1A out of state from a store?

Ok, so if I order one they can just pull the flash hider off and send it to my FFL.

DOes the Flash hider have any effect on accuracy? Does its absence negatively impact any shooting?

I suppose if I really wanted something on the end I could get one of Springfields CA legal breaks.

I've read that flash suppressor decreases accuracy (this was for AR15). I would highly recommend muzzle brake though, it will probably reduce recoil and maybe increase follow up shot accuracy when shooting M1A.

MaceWindu
06-06-2005, 10:43 PM
I would recommend a Smith Enterprise CA muzzle brake....he makes the BEST one for Kali...like this one..:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/MaceWindu/Fulton008.jpg

Go to http://www.smithenterprise.com

MaceWindu

imported_Matt-man
06-07-2005, 11:11 PM
Fulton Armory is also selling a CA-legal brake:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/tula1954sks/lrbm14/fultonbrake1.jpg

I think it looks as dumb as the Springfield one though.

I like the Smith brake, especially on 18" guns. It's a little shorter than a USGI flash hider.

Right now I'm waiting for a USGI flash hider, complete with bayonet lug, to show up so I can send it to Gruning Precision (http://www.gruningprecision.com/) and have it sleeved.

CraigC
06-08-2005, 12:22 AM
+1 on the Smith Enterprise brake. Much better than the stock Springfield brake that comes with the gun.