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XD1
05-02-2005, 7:58 PM
Transfer of handgun between family member[/B]anyone know if this is exempt from the 10 day waiting period?

XD1
05-02-2005, 7:58 PM
Transfer of handgun between family member[/B]anyone know if this is exempt from the 10 day waiting period?

Inoxmark
05-02-2005, 8:52 PM
Depends how are the family members related. For parent/child, grandparent/grandchild transfers FFL does not need to be involved, you just need to fill out intra-family handgun transfer form and mail it to DOJ along with DROS fees. Siblings, uncles and aunts don't qualify for this exception and still must go through FFL and applicable waiting period.

XD1
05-02-2005, 9:00 PM
spouse to spouse ? does this qualify?

vaporone_859k@hotmail.com
05-02-2005, 9:45 PM
Just to add a question to this:

Have a friend who's grandfather passed away. What happens with the transfer of firearms between relatives through a will?

imported_Telpierion
05-03-2005, 5:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">spouse to spouse ? does this qualify? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes

imported_EOD Guy
05-03-2005, 6:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Telpierion:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">spouse to spouse ? does this qualify? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, there is no provision in the penal code that would allow that, although the DOJ seems to allow it. They quote the "immediate family member" section in PC12078(c) which does not define spouses as "immediate family members".

I didn't say it made sense. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

imported_Telpierion
05-03-2005, 6:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Actually, there is no provision in the penal code that would allow that, although the DOJ seems to allow it. They quote the "immediate family member" section in PC12078(c) which does not define spouses as "immediate family members".

I didn't say it made sense. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right. But their FAQ does say it's OK http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/pubfaqs.htm#21

XD1
05-03-2005, 8:09 AM
thanks

bwiese
05-03-2005, 8:16 AM
I believe there's only (grand)parent/(grand)child transfers, and no other relationships are codified.

This only applies WITHIN California, too.

If your parents are out of state, then Fed. law applies and you'd have to run the deal thru an FFL in CA. And if handguns are not on "the List" then the FFL couldn't transfer them to you.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

bear
05-03-2005, 8:40 AM
hey bwiese, can you double-check that?

I could swear I read that guns not on the List could be transferred from grandparents or parents, even if they are out of state.

I don't remember whether it has to go through the 01 FFL, maybe it does. But the parents/grandparents bequethment exempts it from "the List" constraints.

bwiese
05-03-2005, 10:24 AM
Bear..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">bear wrote:
I could swear I read that guns not on the List could be transferred from grandparents or parents, even if they are out of state.

I don't remember whether it has to go through the 01 FFL, maybe it does. But the parents/ grandparents bequethment exempts it from "the List" constraints. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's the problem.

The issue is that Fed & CA law ban unpapered transfers across state lines. So, the gun has to be transferred via an FFL in CA.

Face-to-face private party transfers ("F2F PPTs") are the only ones where guns not on "the List" can be transferred. These can only happen between CA residents. Otherwise, when the FFL gets a gun it is "sold" to you just like any other gun: since the gun is not on 'the List', it's "unsafe" and you can't have it.

A conversation/chat night with Randy Rossi & Tim Riegert of Calif DOJ Firearms Div (sponsored by NRA Member's Council) this Feb, indicated that legislative intent was in fact to generally stop "unsafe" guns from entering CA so really not any loopholes.

Only way around this would be for your family member to "move" to CA, establish residency, and then PPT the non-listed guns to you.

Do note that single-action revolvers are exempt from The List and 'safety' requirements - as long as they have 5 or more shots and a barrel 3" or longer.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

imported_Telpierion
05-03-2005, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The issue is that Fed & CA law ban unpapered transfers across state lines. So, the gun has to be transferred via an FFL in CA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think there are exemptions both state and federal for firearms received by bequest.

bwiese
05-03-2005, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Telpierion:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">bwiese wrote:
The issue is that Fed & CA law ban unpapered transfers across state lines. So, the gun has to be transferred via an FFL in CA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think there are exemptions both state and federal for firearms received by bequest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you can find one that allows crossing state lines w/o FFL intervention I'm all ears.

Bill

imported_EOD Guy
05-03-2005, 12:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Telpierion:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">bwiese wrote:
The issue is that Fed & CA law ban unpapered transfers across state lines. So, the gun has to be transferred via an FFL in CA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think there are exemptions both state and federal for firearms received by bequest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you can find one that allows crossing state lines w/o FFL intervention I'm all ears.

Bill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

27CFR478.30(a)

TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

PART 478_COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

Subpart C_Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

Sec. 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or
deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows
or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of
business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That
the provisions of this section:
(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of
a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any
acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is
permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of
his residence;

bear
05-06-2005, 3:27 PM
Does this mean they have to be dead ("intestate succession") or can they bequeath it while still alive?

Librarian
05-06-2005, 4:28 PM
I'd guess dead.

Alive, I think it's a gift, not a bequest.

Federal law not withstanding, one cannot receive a California-defined 'assault weapon' in California by bequest or any other transfer (without first getting DOJ's machine gun license).

Other kinds of weapons?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">12072(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through either of the following:
(1) A licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.
(2) A law enforcement agency pursuant to Section 12084. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>but<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">12078(c)
(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family.
(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and both* of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> 12078 doesn't require the the parties to be in-state. 27CFR478.30(a) doesn't require the FFL from the feds. Maybe it would be worthwhile to take this to a lawyer and get an Opinion.

* Both A, B, and C? Looks like an editing error; should be 'all of', I think.

fastmanusa
05-06-2005, 8:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:
Bear..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">bear wrote:
I could swear I read that guns not on the List could be transferred from grandparents or parents, even if they are out of state.

I don't remember whether it has to go through the 01 FFL, maybe it does. But the parents/ grandparents bequethment exempts it from "the List" constraints. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's the problem.

The issue is that Fed & CA law ban unpapered transfers across state lines. So, the gun has to be transferred via an FFL in CA.

Face-to-face private party transfers ("F2F PPTs") are the only ones where guns not on "the List" can be transferred. These can only happen between CA residents. Otherwise, when the FFL gets a gun it is "sold" to you just like any other gun: since the gun is not on 'the List', it's "unsafe" and you can't have it.

A conversation/chat night with Randy Rossi & Tim Riegert of Calif DOJ Firearms Div (sponsored by NRA Member's Council) this Feb, indicated that legislative intent was in fact to generally stop "unsafe" guns from entering CA so really not any loopholes.

Only way around this would be for your family member to "move" to CA, establish residency, and then PPT the non-listed guns to you.

Do note that single-action revolvers are exempt from The List and 'safety' requirements - as long as they have 5 or more shots and a barrel 3" or longer.

Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually his question was brought up before and someone asked the DOJ. They asked “My grandpa died and left me gun from out of state not on the list.” The DOJ said that you could have them shipped to an ffl and transferred with a notarized letter either stating they were inherited or a gift. I know this for a fact so I encourage you to waste your time and call the DOJ. Yes Bill, you don't no everything.

XD1
05-08-2005, 8:17 PM
i am lost is that a YES,

jnojr
05-09-2005, 10:30 AM
Well, your original question was about the ten-day waiting period, and that was answered.

As far as the drop-test... I asked DOJ about an out-of-state "immediate family member" sending a handgun not on the OK list, and received a reply stating that that was OK to them. At least in the viewpoint of the agent who responded to my email.

If you're trying to get a parent, grandparent, or adult child in another state to send you a handgun not on the list, I would call DOJ and ask them for a written letter stating their position.

imported_Telpierion
05-09-2005, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you're trying to get a parent, grandparent, or adult child in another state to send you a handgun not on the list, I would call DOJ and ask them for a written letter stating their position. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And jeck with your FFL as well. They may not want to do it even if you give them a letter from the DOJ saying it's OK.