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Black Majik
05-14-2009, 1:52 PM
Anyone ever try .45 Super?

I'm getting a little bored with my handguns, and the thought of trying something different such as .45 Super from Buffalo Bore has always intrigued me.

It'll be going through my USPf .45, please share your experiences if you've ever tried .45 Super through yours. :D

Thanks

Black_Talon
05-14-2009, 3:14 PM
Basically you'd be playing with a 45ACP "+P+" loading.

I don't see any advantage, since all the modern JHP bullets are designed to work as well as possible at standard velocities. I've never understood the "+P" versions, let alone something like the Super , with even more recoil and muzzle flash, not to mention the increased wear of the gun.

BamBam-31
05-14-2009, 3:18 PM
Go 10mm. :)

1923mack
05-14-2009, 4:28 PM
Dean Grennell had a bunch of loading data for the 45 Super, and the guy in Texas, cannot recall the name as I type this, did some government model conversions. Similar to the 451 Detonics magnum.

cineski
05-14-2009, 5:09 PM
I'd dig this stuff for the woods gun. I don't think there's too many guns rated for .45 Super. I know the HK45/c is.

blackbox
05-14-2009, 6:23 PM
I've been wanting to try .45Super out as well. It really seems like an ideal caliber, the mass of a .45, but moving at a proper supersonic speed.

Schlamoo
05-14-2009, 7:59 PM
Dean Grennell had a bunch of loading data for the 45 Super, and the guy in Texas, cannot recall the name as I type this, did some government model conversions. Similar to the 451 Detonics magnum.

The custom 'smith who did the .45 Super conversions was Ace Custom. The Super is a hoot to shoot. I have a factory Springfield Armory 1911 .45 Super, first year of production. Most .45 Supers from Springfield came with barrel porting, if I recall correctly V12 for the 5" and V16 for the 6" barrel/slides. Mine is rather rare being shipped with out any porting.

While I don't see the .45 Super as a very good self defense or "tacticle" round like I said it is fun to shoot. The recoil is very snappy, very simular to the .451 Detonics, the advantage is you can shoot standard .45 ACP in the same gun. You can not do that with a gun set up in .451 Det mag as the case is too long. Long range or hunting applications would be the advantage to this cartridge.

Kid Stanislaus
05-14-2009, 8:27 PM
You might take a look at the 460 Rowlan as well.

sb_pete
05-14-2009, 9:00 PM
.460 Rowland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.460_Rowland) is pretty cool too. but it has the same "problem" as the .451 Detonics, namely that you have to swap barrels and recoil springs in order to shoot it.

The nifty thing about .45 super is it loads in std .45acp mags and chambers. You could for instance, if you were in a unit that used 1911's (like alot of USMC and Army guys) or Mk23's (well...), load up .45 Super, and still be able to use the guy next to you's .45acp mags if it came down to it. Or if you had a supply chain of .45acp, you could still use .45 Super if you wanted to. That said, it has the "disadvantage" of being supersonic so it wouldn't be ideal for suppressed use in such situations.

Of course, if you are a normal mortal like the rest of us, .45 super might just be fun to try and doesn't require the purchase of any new gear :shrug:

B Strong
05-15-2009, 5:13 AM
Nice concept, stretches the envelope for the platform a little too much.

Go with a G20 or the .50GI conversion kit on a G21 if you want a bigger bang in a service size pistol.

Black Majik
05-15-2009, 8:24 AM
Thank you all for the insight.

I did consider 10mm, but shy away from it because 1) I didn't want another 1911 2) I don't really want a G20 either.

If I could find a pre-MIM 1006 I would definitely consider it. However, it's a heavy pistol.

The main thing is, I feel more proficient with an auto-loader, otherwise I'd just get a 629 and call it a day. The main purpose would be for a hiking gun.

What was attractive about the USP shooting .45 Super was 1) weight 2) not needing to change anything in it (springs if I do choose to shoot more than a couple magazines through it) 3) and finally not needing to buy a new gun.

The .50 GI, isn't really a consideration since its velocity is still similiar in speed to .45 ACP./+p.

I don't plan to shoot much .45 Super out of it. I probably wouldn't even go through a whole box. However, I just wanted to see if anyone had any experiece with this cartrige.

Of course, I could always go on HKPro (and I have researched it on there). But, I don't regard their opinion as high as I do here.


(just thinking out loud)

cineski
05-15-2009, 8:49 AM
Black Majik, check out these threads:

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90431

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77200&highlight=45+super

Seems nobody over there has a very good idea, either. The pressure of a 45 Super is quite a bit higher than what's rated nominal for 45 acp.

Josh
05-15-2009, 10:25 AM
I load up with .45super when im out hiking around.

Shot a few boxes through my USP45F and it shows no signs of damage. I do swap the recoil spring out with a stronger one.

Lots of recoil and lots of noise, feels closer to a lighter magnum load through the USP.

bugman
05-15-2009, 10:27 AM
The custom 'smith who did the .45 Super conversions was Ace Custom. The Super is a hoot to shoot. I have a factory Springfield Armory 1911 .45 Super, first year of production. Most .45 Supers from Springfield came with barrel porting, if I recall correctly V12 for the 5" and V16 for the 6" barrel/slides. Mine is rather rare being shipped with out any porting.

While I don't see the .45 Super as a very good self defense or "tacticle" round like I said it is fun to shoot. The recoil is very snappy, very simular to the .451 Detonics, the advantage is you can shoot standard .45 ACP in the same gun. You can not do that with a gun set up in .451 Det mag as the case is too long. Long range or hunting applications would be the advantage to this cartridge.

I have the SA V16 Longslide with ported barrel. It's fun to shoot with much more stronger recoil and fireball than the regular 45acp. It's fun to see reaction from other shooters at the range who get used to you firing 45 acp, then switching over to the booming 45Super which makes them look over and ask what happened..:)

ChrisDM
05-15-2009, 10:34 AM
I have an alternate setup for my Glock 21SF for my 45 Super, but I also have a 10mm slide for it, and a 460 Rowland kit for my Kimber. The 10mm is the most reliable setup, and the 460 hits the hardest, by far. The nice thing about the 45 super for you though is that your HK can handle it right out of the box.

Chris

cineski
05-15-2009, 11:04 AM
I just called HK. No HK handguns are rated to shoot 45 Super. Only 45 +P. The guy was aware that there's people doing it, but went on to say the guns are not rated for this, and you'll be on your own if something happens.

Black Majik
05-15-2009, 11:37 AM
Thanks for the info guys

I just called HK. No HK handguns are rated to shoot 45 Super. Only 45 +P. The guy was aware that there's people doing it, but went on to say the guns are not rated for this, and you'll be on your own if something happens.

Looks like I'll put this on the back-burner.

I do however, still need to order some springs for my HKs. Those magazine springs sure are weak. Might pick up a heavier recoil spring as well.

cineski
05-15-2009, 11:43 AM
Are there mag springs that are higher rated than stockies for HK?

Black Majik
05-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Yup, by Wolff

www.gunsprings.com

BamBam-31
05-15-2009, 11:48 AM
I have an alternate setup for my Glock 21SF for my 45 Super, but I also have a 10mm slide for it, and a 460 Rowland kit for my Kimber. The 10mm is the most reliable setup, and the 460 hits the hardest, by far. The nice thing about the 45 super for you though is that your HK can handle it right out of the box.

Chris

Okay, Rich, I'll get a 10mm slide for my 21sf and you can shoot it til you get carpal tunnel. ;)

Black Majik
05-15-2009, 11:57 AM
Okay, Rich, I'll get a 10mm slide for my 21sf and you can shoot it til you get carpal tunnel. ;)

Deal. :D

cineski
05-15-2009, 12:34 PM
No HK45, only USP. :(

Yup, by Wolff

www.gunsprings.com

guns_and_labs
05-15-2009, 1:20 PM
How about an S&W 4506 with a .45 Super conversion by Ace? There's one at Contra Costa Collectible. Used to be mine, shot some but not much. I rather liked it for pig hunting and the like, left .45acp in it in town and loaded up .45Super in the woods.

I put it on consignment and forgot about it until I saw this thread. I may need to go get it out.

HCz
05-15-2009, 1:37 PM
Okay, Rich, I'll get a 10mm slide for my 21sf and you can shoot it til you get carpal tunnel. ;)
And where is he supposed to get ammo?:p Not that he needed it, but you know, theoretically.:p

guns_and_labs
05-15-2009, 1:46 PM
And where is he supposed to get ammo?:p Not that he needed it, but you know, theoretically.:p

Doubletap is shipping

HCz
05-15-2009, 1:48 PM
Doubletap is shipping

$37.50 for 50 rounds....:eek:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_25&page=1&sort=3a

guns_and_labs
05-15-2009, 1:52 PM
$37.50 for 50 rounds....:eek:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_25&page=1&sort=3a

You said "where?", not "how much?". :p

BamBam-31
05-15-2009, 1:57 PM
I still have a bunch of Zero 180 gr. JHP .40/10mm bullets left over from when I owned a Ruger PC4. Just need brass & powder. ;)

ETA: Scratch that. Seems Titegroup and W231 will work. Have both. Just need brass (and some WLP's wouldn't hurt, either).

HCz
05-15-2009, 1:58 PM
You said "where?", not "how much?". :p

:rofl2::thumbsup:

a.tinkerer
05-15-2009, 2:05 PM
On the 460 Rowland, it does involve a *cartridge specific* compensated barrel and spring kit, but it uses standard 1911 45acp magazines.
Conversion or restoration to .45acp takes about a minute either way.

I'm setting a 1911 up as 460 Rowland as a field packing gun for hunting.
No fantasies of needing it for Chow Yun-Fat style 'self defense' but as a hunting gun it makes great sense. I like the concept of hot 44mag energy out of a slim single stack 1911

I'll be loading heavy hard cast flat points for max velocity, not concerned with recoil at all, and I won't be worrying about frame fatigue in that I'm not planning to put hundreds of rounds through it at a time - and it's an early Yonkers Kimber so I don't likely have much to worry about there anyway.

Should be a great 'packing in the woods' pistol that wouldn't give me pause around big cats, boar or bear.




Cheers
Tinker

Sam
05-15-2009, 2:06 PM
I didn't want another 1911

Whaaa? Are you even speaking English? I don't understand. :rolleyes:

Josh
05-16-2009, 1:09 AM
I just called HK. No HK handguns are rated to shoot 45 Super. Only 45 +P. The guy was aware that there's people doing it, but went on to say the guns are not rated for this, and you'll be on your own if something happens.

I dont think there is an official saami spec for 45 super as its something of a wildcat round. So no, the HK handgun will not be rated for it as its an unconventional cartridge.

HK and most other manufacturers will void your warranty if you shoot reloads also.

With the grade of steel HK uses for their barrels and the degree of destructive testing they do such as shoot out a squib round while still being able to function. The USP will handle the 45super load.

cineski
05-16-2009, 7:27 AM
Found this from an unofficial site: I developed an interest in .45 ACP type cartridges that operate above SAAMI .45 ACP and .45 ACP+ MAP levels; 21,000 PSI and 23,000 PSI respectively. There are two specific pressure increments above the 45 ACP +P that offer significantly enhanced performance. The 45 SuperŪ cartridge is reputed to operate in the 28,000 PSI range. The 460 Rowland, a step above the .45 SuperŪ in performance, operates in the 38,000~40,000 CUP range.

Josh, wouldn't the barrel be just a part of the equation? The barrel may be tougher than normal, but parts of the slide, frame, etc may not be.

Josh
05-16-2009, 8:29 AM
Found this from an unofficial site: I developed an interest in .45 ACP type cartridges that operate above SAAMI .45 ACP and .45 ACP+ MAP levels; 21,000 PSI and 23,000 PSI respectively. There are two specific pressure increments above the 45 ACP +P that offer significantly enhanced performance. The 45 SuperŪ cartridge is reputed to operate in the 28,000 PSI range. The 460 Rowland, a step above the .45 SuperŪ in performance, operates in the 38,000~40,000 CUP range.

Josh, wouldn't the barrel be just a part of the equation? The barrel may be tougher than normal, but parts of the slide, frame, etc may not be.

The barrel was tested with the handgun as an assembly. But as far as safety concerns, the barrel is usually the first part to fail in an overpressure situation as its subject to the highest stresses.

a.tinkerer
05-16-2009, 8:40 AM
The 460 Rowland is offered as a conversion system

The barrel/compensator/spring kit is engineered to keep the pistol in battery until after *gobs and gobs of exhaust gas* are vented out of the great-big compensator ports, then as the pistol cycles it's doing so against a much heavier slide spring than would be in place for .45acp

Still, this isn't the kind of setup you'd shoot matches with - and for that kind of shooting (hundreds of rounds a day) it's common practice to 'load down' for competition.

Stuffing more powder in your 45acp handloads can get you more velocity - but running past max loads is dangerous.
Where possible, conversion to .460 Rowland is a great way to get into a completely different range of performance without sacrificing safety.



Cheers
Tinker

CooldadE
05-16-2009, 8:52 AM
I've always wanted to mess with the 45 Super. I bought some brass from Shooting Star, found some hot loads in the net but never got around to it. I was going to use it in my Ruger Blaskhawk with the 45 ACP cylinder. My thought being heavy bullets, light weight, small powder charges and higher velocity than say the 45 LC with the same charge of powder.
I might get higher velocitys at lower pressures with the LC but hey its a Ruger.