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View Full Version : Person to person sale...Ishy 2A


michaeltpo
05-13-2009, 1:31 PM
Can I sell an Ishapore 2A bolt action rifle person to person in California? It was made in 1967. The reason I ask is California does not consider it to be a C & R rifle for intra state purposes although I could sell it C & R to an out of state C & R licensee. At least thats the way I understand it.
I might take it to the Sacramento Valley Swap meet this weekend but I'm not sure if I can sell it person to person. If I can is there any requirement as to a legal sale. Thanks.
Michael

domokun
05-13-2009, 1:54 PM
If it isn't over 50 years old and in its original configuration or listed on the ATF's list of C&R firearms, you cannot legally sell it face to face without going through a licensed dealer via the PPT process.

Dr Rockso
05-13-2009, 3:53 PM
PC 12078 says that it has to be 50 years old in order to be exempt from the CA dealer requirement. No way to do a legal FTF for a gun made in '67.

michaeltpo
05-13-2009, 6:28 PM
That was my thoughts but I could sell an M1 Garand, a semi-auto, face to face to a non C & R. That seems odd?

CHS
05-13-2009, 6:39 PM
That was my thoughts but I could sell an M1 Garand, a semi-auto, face to face to a non C & R. That seems odd?

That's because most Garand's are 50 years old or more.

The 50 years old part is the key.

Mssr. Eleganté
05-13-2009, 9:37 PM
Can I sell an Ishapore 2A bolt action rifle person to person in California? It was made in 1967. The reason I ask is California does not consider it to be a C & R rifle for intra state purposes...

Just to clear something up...California does consider the Ishapore 2A to be a C&R for intra-state purposes. Everything that the Feds consider to be C&R is also C&R in California. There are no exceptions to this. C&R handguns, C&R machineguns, C&R SBR's and SBS's are all considered 100% C&R in California. But many types of C&R firearms have additional restrictions in California. These restrictions do not take away the C&R status of the firearms in California. They just make the C&R firearms more difficult (or impossible) to transfer or own in California.

To be eligible for Dealerless transfers in California a firearm has to meet all three of these qualifications.

1. Must be a long gun
2. Must be considered C&R by the Feds
3. Must be at least 50 years old

So if you run the Ishapore through this checklist you get...

1. Must be a long gun - YES
2. Must be considered C&R by the Feds - YES
3. Must be at least 50 years old - NO

You can see above that the Ishapore fails the checklist because it is not over 50 years old. It did not fail the checklist because of its C&R status. Failing the checklist for one reason does not suddenly cancel the other two reasons. To say that the Ishapore 2A is "not C&R in California" would be as ridiculous as saying that it is not a long gun in California.

michaeltpo
05-13-2009, 10:03 PM
Impeccible logic. Thanks for clearing this up.

cousinkix1953
05-13-2009, 10:03 PM
Most of the imported military surplus rifles are clearly dated. That makes it harder to prove that you didn't know that it wasn't elligible as a C&R.

On the other hand, there is no "1944" stamped on most of those M-1 Garand rifles flashing right in your face.

Japanese Arisaka rifles aren't dated either, but We know that World War II ended in 1945 and the IJA hasn't made them since that time...

DocSkinner
05-14-2009, 10:24 AM
That was my thoughts but I could sell an M1 Garand, a semi-auto, face to face to a non C & R. That seems odd?

funny! - CA gun laws and Odd = redundant! ;-)