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Steve O
05-12-2009, 1:13 AM
Found my self in a possible bad situation tonight..

This is my disclaimer: I have brain damage form an assault. My grammar and spelling is not at current age level. Please forgive me, I know it bothers some of you, but please avoid flaming me.


Let me start with question first, then I'll explain.

If I were to keep my pistol stored in my locked stainless steel samsonite brief case unloaded with slide in bolt open position, and loaded mag next to it but not in it or in any position to be fired. I'm sure the answer is that would be legal.

Next question.

If I feel my life may be in danger, and I have time to open case, insert mag, and chamber a round, now having a loaded pistol in city limits would this be legal under the circumstances? Given the pistol was not fired, and simply unloaded after the possible threat and returned to it's case unloaded?

Now let's get to the circumstances.

I was coming home form work, it was late. It was my usual drive. There was a car in front of me. About 3 cars distance, I don't tail gate because I try to avoid confrontational situations at all cost. (do to past experiences, will add later if requested.) With out warning this car suddenly pulled to the side of the road as if it was someone pulling over to do something. I kept driving and passed. The car sped up to my rear and put on its high beams. First thing I did was check mine thinking I might be getting payback, but nope, they were not on. so what gives. The car started swerving, and cruzing right up to my tail gate. I knew I needed to do something or there was going to be confrontation. I jerked the wheel and pulled off and the speeding car passed, and now I was behind him.

I'm know what your thinking. No this did not escalate on my behalf. Once I was behind the car and it was speeding up the street I stayed way behind driving at like 20mph while the other car was doing 50 or so in a 35.

Just as I thought it was over, the car was about 200 yards ahead of me, it pulled over. waiting for me. So I pulled over too. We both stood there for a few minutes. I was not about to enter an ambush and get in a possible bad situation. I have no idea what this is about. Could been my driving, could be an old "friend" from the past. Ether way I don't like confrontation. So I waited for him to move on, and he did. Then he pulled over again, thinking I would simply pass him. Well I pulled over too. Then he pulled a u-turn right in the middle of the street and came speeding at me.

Now. I would have liked to have garbed my pistol, racked one, exit vehicle, take cover and prepare. If the guy would have drive up to me and said something like "your high beams were on a** hole" he would have been saying it to my barrel. I would have said "Sorry, it was an accident" then I'm sure he would have moved on, and called the police saying that "some crazy guy brandished a gun at him" and then I would have had to book it.

But what actually happened, I realized I was helpless. The street was empty and there were no open stores near buy. I had no choice but to prepare for a chase of some sort. I speed up. Accelerating towards him (Me in my lane, him in his) then he passed me, then pulled another u-turn trying to get behind me again. I was going to fast for him to catch me. I noticed a closed 7-11. I shut of my light, and with out using any brakes served behind the store, just as the guy had passed the store. He stopped at the light and look around for me. I noticed a car full of dudes. They didn't know where I went so the turned at the light and speed on.

The only thing I think this could be, except for someone recognizing me from past experiences, is perhaps my headlights in my beat up truck were wobbling when I hit a few bumps. I've seen other cars do it behind me and it appears that your being flashed. Other then that, I don't drive like a jack ***.

I'm just glad I was able to avoid who ever it was. Last time I ended up in a very similar situation it ended with me on the ground rolling in my blood as 4 dudes were kicking and stomping on me. I was LUCKY then that it was a time of my life where I didn't care about CCW laws, and I had prior warning of a possible attack. I was carrying in my ankle that night. I did have to draw, and good thing I did. They had knives and were ready to stab me. It was nice to hear them drop the knives and run. but unfortunately the police arrived with me holding a gun. I was lucky to have witnesses who all said they "wished they could have done something" but did say that I took a beating before I pulled my weapon in self defense.

I was treated like a thug. tell the officers got the witness statements. Then I was sited (not arrested) for carrying concealed, and carrying loaded.
The local DA decided NOT to press charges do to my good character. However I was never approved for my CCW. Criminal scrum roam the streets, and I have to resort to breaking the laws to defend me self??? What does that make me?

TheBundo
05-12-2009, 1:37 AM
No cell phone?

Steve O
05-12-2009, 1:51 AM
I don't have bluetoth. I don't think I could have driven like that while waiting on hold with 911. Cell phone 911 sucks. Once I called because a horse was walking down the FREEWAY! and I told the operator exactly where it was, and she said her computer couldn't pull up the location. I was transferred around a few times, then I just hung up, got out of my truck and lead the horse off to the side.

911 is a joke!

Dark&Good
05-12-2009, 2:25 AM
Good you're ok.
We're working on changing some laws here. Keep all the records.

geeknow
05-12-2009, 3:59 AM
1. glad you came out ok
2. based upon your story, dont know what else I might do in your shoes, except prepare for a possible ramming.

something to think about....

do not dismiss the truck that you were driving all over hells half acre in trying to ditch these guys, it is a powerful weapon too.

Some loser attempted to car jack me some 12-15 years ago. Same loser was subsequently run over by me (itty bitty mazda 626). Turns out the paperwork that follows an adventure like that is really not all that bad.....at least not the paperwork that I filled out:43:.

rkt88edmo
05-12-2009, 6:35 AM
There is no good reason to leave your vehicle.

Bruce
05-12-2009, 6:45 AM
... I noticed a closed 7-11...

A closed 7-11????:confused: I didn't know they even put locks on the doors!!!:D

glock_this
05-12-2009, 6:46 AM
"I noticed a closed 7-11."

is this even possible?

EDIT: how funny, as I read the entire story this popped out at me, I post, and Bruce had just posted the same thought

paul0660
05-12-2009, 7:01 AM
The prohibition against possessing loaded firearms in a public place does not apply to:

Any person carrying a loaded firearm, if otherwise lawful, when he or she reasonably believes
his or her person or property is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the loaded
firearm is necessary for preservation of the person or property during the time interval
following notification of the local law enforcement agency when reasonably possible,
and prior to the arrival of its assistance. (Penal Code § 12031)(j)(1).

So the hypothetical you asked about first is legal. What would actually happen, who knows. Clearly, it would be good to call 911 regardless, and especially because it would tend to fulfill the statute.

JDoe
05-12-2009, 7:11 AM
Cell phone. Call 911 and if you can't keep holding the phone just put it down on the seat/floor/shirt pocket/etc. so maybe there will be some one listening and maybe there will be a recording of what happened. Just keep talking and describing where you are what is going on and so on. Better than nothing and 911 services have a locate feature where 911 can get a general idea where you are calling from.

rtlltj
05-12-2009, 7:16 AM
Bluetooth or not use speakerphone

frigginchi
05-12-2009, 7:23 AM
Put the local PD/SO dispatch phone numbers in your phone.

Marin County S/O Dispatch: 415-479-2311

avdrummerboy
05-12-2009, 7:25 AM
Glad to hear your okay. Only in Kalifornia do you get in more trouble than your attacker for defending yourself.

M. D. Van Norman
05-12-2009, 7:54 AM
I would have liked to have [grabbed] my pistol, racked one, exit vehicle, take cover and prepare.

Why? Your vehicle is a means of escape, a form of cover, and an even deadlier weapon than a 230-grain hollow point.

Untamed1972
05-12-2009, 8:21 AM
Back in about 1993 I had a guy chase me off the freeway one day because I changed lanes in front of him so I could get to the upcoming exit I needed to get off at. Fortunately my car was faster and handled better and I knew the area pretty well and led him into a hilly area with windy roads and was able to lose him. What an idiot though....It amazes me that people will do that kinda stuff. Get a life.....so someone changed lanes in front of you....they weren't challenging your manhood.

I remember thinking way back then that being armed in such situation wouldn't be a bad idea in case you weren't able to get away. And that was back before cell phones were common and were the size of a brick!

Theseus
05-12-2009, 8:32 AM
In your situation I would have readied and holstered my pistol and as others have stated used my truck. . . I drive a 4300 lb. "commercial" truck that would destroy many of the cars made today.

The pistol is if there is irreparable damage done to the truck and I can't get away afterward. A 5.7L engine gets hot pretty quick!

Turbinator
05-12-2009, 8:39 AM
Guys, no one has said it yet, but the OP did the right thing. He was alert, thought quickly on his feet, and managed to evade the thugs. Great job. The only thing better would be to be armed and prepared, but mentally the OP was prepared and is here to tell the tale. GOOD JOB and I'm glad luck was with him for this scary incident.

Turby

WHenderson
05-12-2009, 9:02 AM
Your mistake was pulling over. You have absolutely no reason to pull over when another driver is acting strangely. That's asking for trouble. Never pull over in a dispute type situation, such as road rage. Drive to a police station, or a well lit public place with people around. -W

ohsmily
05-12-2009, 9:09 AM
I guess it is easy to armchair quarterback, but I can't believe you would consider exiting your vehicle, gun or no gun, for cover, etc. You are in a strong, heavy piece of machinery that goes really fast and affords you protection.

Did you have a cell phone or not???? You said were were pulled over while the other vehicle was pulled over.....guess it didn't occur to you to call at that time (or any other for that matter). Did you get a license plate????

Untamed1972
05-12-2009, 9:22 AM
Guys, no one has said it yet, but the OP did the right thing. He was alert, thought quickly on his feet, and managed to evade the thugs. Great job. The only thing better would be to be armed and prepared, but mentally the OP was prepared and is here to tell the tale. GOOD JOB and I'm glad luck was with him for this scary incident.

Turby

I would agree....I think he did a great job. He kept his head and made some good choices. :thumbsup:

Maybe the only thing I could see that could have been done is, when you got behind the guy and let them get way ahead of you.....at that point YOU could turned off your lights briefly and whipped a U turn and tired to gain more distance on them that way.

It's possible that they thought when you got behind them and kept pulling over you were on the phone to the COPs and were keeping an eye them till the COPs got there. If you had just disappeared from behind them they mighta just kpet on going.

P.S. I didn't see any problems with your grammar.

Steve O
05-12-2009, 10:48 AM
"I noticed a closed 7-11."

is this even possible?

EDIT: how funny, as I read the entire story this popped out at me, I post, and Bruce had just posted the same thought

lol. just went by there today. it's a just a gas station store.
And yea stupid north bay stores close at night.

Put the local PD/SO dispatch phone numbers in your phone.

Marin County S/O Dispatch: 415-479-2311

That's a good idea. I'm going to do that.
It all seemed to just happen so fast...

Why? Your vehicle is a means of escape, a form of cover, and an even deadlier weapon than a 230-grain hollow point.

Yea I'm not saying to have the answers, but assuming a speeding car is coming at me about to open fire, I would rather be behind my all sides of my truck, then just sitting between the glass. I don't know. thinking about what to do in situation like this takes thought.

1BigPea
05-12-2009, 11:20 AM
Sounds like to me you did all the right things besides try and get a plate # and call 911 while you were pulled over. Granted it was night so the plate # might have been difficult to get...

Glad you're OK.

Steve O
05-12-2009, 11:23 AM
It's possible that they thought when you got behind them and kept pulling over you were on the phone to the COPs and were keeping an eye them till the COPs got there. If you had just disappeared from behind them they mighta just kept on going.


I thought that the person was pissed about something, and after pulling over, and me pulling over too, they would just let it go and continue what ever it was they were doing. The street I was on had neighborhood streets turning off of it, and I didn't want to get lost in their hood!

Untamed1972
05-12-2009, 11:31 AM
I thought that the person was pissed about something, and after pulling over, and me pulling over too, they would just let it go and continue what ever it was they were doing. The street I was on had neighborhood streets turning off of it, and I didn't want to get lost in their hood!


I just meant turn around and head back in the direction you came from. If you turned off your lights briefly while heading back the other way you would have just disappeared into the darkness.

But I don't blame you for not wanting to turn down unfamiliar streets. Last thing you wanna do is get trapped in a deadend street.

Liberty1
05-12-2009, 11:54 AM
Let me start with question first, then I'll explain.

If I were to keep my pistol stored in my locked stainless steel samsonite brief case unloaded with slide in bolt open position, and loaded mag next to it but not in it or in any position to be fired. I'm sure the answer is that would be legal.

Next question.

If I feel my life may be in danger, and I have time to open case, insert mag, and chamber a round, now having a loaded pistol in city limits would this be legal under the circumstances? Given the pistol was not fired, and simply unloaded after the possible threat and returned to it's case unloaded?

that make me?

PC 12031 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=12001-13000&file=12020-12040)

(j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the
carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would
otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the
person or property of himself or herself or of another is in
immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is
necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used
in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and
after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has
been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its
assistance.

Sobriquet
05-12-2009, 3:52 PM
Put the local PD/SO dispatch phone numbers in your phone.

Marin County S/O Dispatch: 415-479-2311


Does anyone know where I can find a local emergency number for LAPD or LASD?

I've been looking for one for quite a while so I could call for emergency services for a loved one while out of town. I can't seem to find it.

TenSeven
05-12-2009, 4:07 PM
Does anyone know where I can find a local emergency number for LAPD or LASD?




Each LASD Station has its own direct phone number:

http://www.lasd.org/stations/station_index.html


LAPD probably has a similar setup. Pick the appropriate stations and program the number into your phone and you should be set.

Sobriquet
05-12-2009, 4:12 PM
Each LASD Station has its own direct phone number:

http://www.lasd.org/stations/station_index.html


LAPD probably has a similar setup. Pick the appropriate stations and program the number into your phone and you should be set.

Much appreciated. Thank you.

gunsmith
05-12-2009, 5:04 PM
OP glad you're OK.

Everybody, he is correct, 911 stinks and can be worthless.
It is better to have the non emergency police dispatch number in your cell, if you're in an area like the Bay area, have all the agencies in there, it may help someday.
It has helped me out a great deal, 911 on a cell phone often gets you CHP dispacth and they do not know the difference between Oakland and coco county etc, at least not quick enough for a life threatening situation.

Sniper3142
05-12-2009, 5:06 PM
But what actually happened, I realized I was helpless.

You are NEVER helpless unless you think you are!!!

:mad:

The most important weapon you have to defend yourself is always with you... YOU BRAIN!

You used it in this situation and were able to survive. Congratulations.

While a firearm is often called "the Great Equallizer" it is only a TOOL. Knowing how to use it or any other tool properly is the most important thing.

Mindset is the key. Don't think like the sheep or a victim. Know your limits and skills. Train to improve yourself and always remain aware of what is happening around you.

Glock22Fan
05-12-2009, 5:48 PM
Thisis an excellent strategy to cover your as* have 911 on speed dial.
Push the speed dial button set phone down and insert magazine into previously legal poor man's carry. Providing of course circumstances allow.

Dial 911 on your cellphone and you will get put in touch with the CHP radio dispatchers in Sacramento. It is well documented that these people, good as they are, don't know where many places, roads and cross streets are (how could they, they have to cover the whole state).

Much faster is to have your local police/sheriff's dispatcher phone number programmed in (or several, if you are predominantly in a several different jurisdictions).

Then you don't end up having to explain where the junction of 1st Street and 10th Avenue is before they know which local area to call.

RandyD
05-12-2009, 9:00 PM
Glad to hear that the situation resolved itself without you being injured.

I always carry my cell phone when driving. I have had two occassions to call 911 from the road due to the road rage of others and that system is worthless. I like the idea of keeping the nonemergency number of the local police on speed dial. That is a good idea. Also knowing the location of fire and police stations in the areas where you usually drive is a good precaution and head to one of those locations while talking to a police dispatcher.

I also carry a can of pepper spray.

I also think that exiting your vehicle is generally a bad idea and should only be used as a last resort.

avdrummerboy
05-12-2009, 9:27 PM
Where do you find the dispatcher number, is it the non-emergency number?

Steve O
05-12-2009, 11:02 PM
OP glad you're OK.

Everybody, he is correct, 911 stinks and can be worthless.
It is better to have the non emergency police dispatch number in your cell, if you're in an area like the Bay area, have all the agencies in there, it may help someday.
It has helped me out a great deal, 911 on a cell phone often gets you CHP dispacth and they do not know the difference between Oakland and coco county etc, at least not quick enough for a life threatening situation.

Good to know that taking a legally stored firearm and loading it if I feel my life may be in danger is legal. Calling the police however, the problem I see there, is talking and answering a bunch of stupid questions while trying to think ahead of the case on how to evade someone can really be distracting. I think calling and saying something short, and then toss the phone is best. But is that good enough for informing LEO?

I mean really the conversation would have been like this.

"My name is so and so. I'm at so and so intersection. I'm fallowing a guy who was behind me flashing his lights. I pulled over to let him by and he passed, now I'm behind him, he pulled over and wants to to come to him. I'm pulled over not approaching his vehicle and feel my life may be in danger. I'm loading my gun now."

^ That just sounds really stupid...

Also I have a really weird way (do to my brain damage) of not being able to form words when under stress, then when I spit them out, they are not making scene, and often sounds really weird.

And Also, any conversation with a dispatcher has to be very well worded because it's being recorded, and can be used in court, so if you say anything incriminating, or just stupid, it can be used against you.

DDT
05-12-2009, 11:06 PM
If you fear that your cognitive disability will cause you trouble in a situation like this just call the cops and put it on speakerphone. Say that you are being followed and harassed and fear for your life. DON'T say anything else except try to help them get your location. The less you say about the specifics of the incident the better off you are. If they press you just explain your disability. Then, if something should happen, SAY NOTHING until you talk to your attorney.

Riodog
05-13-2009, 12:50 AM
I'm not 'flaming you" BUT, I damn sure don't want some one with brain damage hauling a loaded firearm around!
"This is my disclaimer: I have brain damage form an assault."
Rio

Maestro Pistolero
05-13-2009, 1:24 AM
I'm not 'flaming you" BUT, I damn sure don't want some one with brain damage hauling a loaded firearm around!
"This is my disclaimer: I have brain damage form an assault."
Rio

His disability seems to be related to speech and language, not cognitive ability per se. His actions in avoiding conflict, while not perfect, were appropriate. I don't see a problem here.

Steve O
05-13-2009, 1:29 AM
I'm not 'flaming you" BUT, I damn sure don't want some one with brain damage hauling a loaded firearm around!
"This is my disclaimer: I have brain damage form an assault."
Rio

I can understand that you may have some ignorance about the issue.
Not everyone is a brain specialist, but myself, I am.

I assure you my damage is strictly memory/speech/language. You sound as if I said I had menial issues. That something entirely different.

His disability seems to be related to speech and language, not cognitive ability per se. His actions in avoiding conflict, while not perfect, were appropriate. I don't see a problem here.

Thank you. Glad someone has an average knowledge of neurology.
And you know the funny thing is, if you knew me, you wouldn't even know about any of it. I'm intelligent. I don't sound like a dumb *** when I talk.

The only side affects seem to be my memory of the past. I don't remember school. learning how to spell, English, math. (But yet I can understand and ace neurology.) All I can remember from anything high school and below is seeing the pages of the books, but I can't remember anything else. I cant remember most social situations. (but some.) Often friends tell me stories of some time I made them laugh (I was a clown.) and I laugh so hard because it's like I'm hearing it for the first time. It's so weird. I remember the birth of my first little sister, but not the second. I remember my first girl friend, but not most of the ones between. And names. I have to hear it 4 times. But yet I can read neurology books, understand them, and retain the knowledge.

And my ability to articulate during adrenaline type situations. I go in to a verbal lock up of some sort. (Doctors now say it may be P.T.S.D. but who knows, the understanding of the human brain is constantly evolving.) I can't talk, but I CAN think, and act, pretty clear actually. I'm aware of the consequences of the law, so I'm not some nut job with a gun. In fact I'm very non-hot headed BECAUSE of my past experiences.

ELEVENTH HOUR
05-13-2009, 1:51 AM
Why? Your vehicle is a means of escape, a form of cover, and an even deadlier weapon than a 230-grain hollow point.

+1

Glad your OK, Steve... Just remember without an operator all tools are rendered useless...:thumbsup:

BunnySlayer
05-13-2009, 1:55 AM
Stevo wrote,
If I were to keep my pistol stored in my locked stainless steel samsonite brief case unloaded with slide in bolt open position, and loaded mag next to it but not in it or in any position to be fired. I'm sure the answer is that would be legal.

Sorry Steve but unless laws have changed this is considered a loaded firearm if it's in your vehicle and you would be subject to prosecution. Glad to hear you were O.K. otherwise.

DDT
05-13-2009, 2:08 AM
The laws haven't changed but case law has been made which clarifies the statute. US v Clark says that a gun is only loaded if the ammunition is in a position from which it can be fired. A mag next to a gun is not loaded, Shotgun shells in a stock saddle are not loaded.

BunnySlayer
05-13-2009, 4:04 AM
I looked up people v Clark and apparently my information is antequated on how Police are allowed to interprete "loaded". I stand corrected DDT. Thanks.

hawk81
05-13-2009, 4:36 AM
What you said is legal, if you feared for your life. You better kill the person you intend to shoot. Dead man tells no tales. Be prepared to get sued afterwards also, by family members of the deceased.

Bugei
05-13-2009, 10:06 AM
I'm not 'flaming you" BUT, I damn sure don't want some one with brain damage hauling a loaded firearm around!
"This is my disclaimer: I have brain damage form an assault."
Rio

I don't see any exemption for the injured in the Second Amendment. True, I don't see one for minors or felons, either. I know I'm in the minority here, but every human has the right to defend themselves and that includes the right to own and carry the tools to do it with.

I think you went too far on this one.

RomanDad
05-13-2009, 10:49 AM
Found my self in a possible bad situation tonight..

This is my disclaimer: I have brain damage form an assault. My grammar and spelling is not at current age level. Please forgive me, I know it bothers some of you, but please avoid flaming me.


Let me start with question first, then I'll explain.

If I were to keep my pistol stored in my locked stainless steel samsonite brief case unloaded with slide in bolt open position, and loaded mag next to it but not in it or in any position to be fired. I'm sure the answer is that would be legal.

Next question.

If I feel my life may be in danger, and I have time to open case, insert mag, and chamber a round, now having a loaded pistol in city limits would this be legal under the circumstances? Given the pistol was not fired, and simply unloaded after the possible threat and returned to it's case unloaded?

Now let's get to the circumstances.

I was coming home form work, it was late. It was my usual drive. There was a car in front of me. About 3 cars distance, I don't tail gate because I try to avoid confrontational situations at all cost. (do to past experiences, will add later if requested.) With out warning this car suddenly pulled to the side of the road as if it was someone pulling over to do something. I kept driving and passed. The car sped up to my rear and put on its high beams. First thing I did was check mine thinking I might be getting payback, but nope, they were not on. so what gives. The car started swerving, and cruzing right up to my tail gate. I knew I needed to do something or there was going to be confrontation. I jerked the wheel and pulled off and the speeding car passed, and now I was behind him.

I'm know what your thinking. No this did not escalate on my behalf. Once I was behind the car and it was speeding up the street I stayed way behind driving at like 20mph while the other car was doing 50 or so in a 35.

Just as I thought it was over, the car was about 200 yards ahead of me, it pulled over. waiting for me. So I pulled over too. We both stood there for a few minutes. I was not about to enter an ambush and get in a possible bad situation. I have no idea what this is about. Could been my driving, could be an old "friend" from the past. Ether way I don't like confrontation. So I waited for him to move on, and he did. Then he pulled over again, thinking I would simply pass him. Well I pulled over too. Then he pulled a u-turn right in the middle of the street and came speeding at me.

Now. I would have liked to have garbed my pistol, racked one, exit vehicle, take cover and prepare. If the guy would have drive up to me and said something like "your high beams were on a** hole" he would have been saying it to my barrel. I would have said "Sorry, it was an accident" then I'm sure he would have moved on, and called the police saying that "some crazy guy brandished a gun at him" and then I would have had to book it.

But what actually happened, I realized I was helpless. The street was empty and there were no open stores near buy. I had no choice but to prepare for a chase of some sort. I speed up. Accelerating towards him (Me in my lane, him in his) then he passed me, then pulled another u-turn trying to get behind me again. I was going to fast for him to catch me. I noticed a closed 7-11. I shut of my light, and with out using any brakes served behind the store, just as the guy had passed the store. He stopped at the light and look around for me. I noticed a car full of dudes. They didn't know where I went so the turned at the light and speed on.

The only thing I think this could be, except for someone recognizing me from past experiences, is perhaps my headlights in my beat up truck were wobbling when I hit a few bumps. I've seen other cars do it behind me and it appears that your being flashed. Other then that, I don't drive like a jack ***.

I'm just glad I was able to avoid who ever it was. Last time I ended up in a very similar situation it ended with me on the ground rolling in my blood as 4 dudes were kicking and stomping on me. I was LUCKY then that it was a time of my life where I didn't care about CCW laws, and I had prior warning of a possible attack. I was carrying in my ankle that night. I did have to draw, and good thing I did. They had knives and were ready to stab me. It was nice to hear them drop the knives and run. but unfortunately the police arrived with me holding a gun. I was lucky to have witnesses who all said they "wished they could have done something" but did say that I took a beating before I pulled my weapon in self defense.

I was treated like a thug. tell the officers got the witness statements. Then I was sited (not arrested) for carrying concealed, and carrying loaded.
The local DA decided NOT to press charges do to my good character. However I was never approved for my CCW. Criminal scrum roam the streets, and I have to resort to breaking the laws to defend me self??? What does that make me?

1. Sounds like you ran across a gang that wanted to jack you for your car or just wanted to hurt SOMEBODY that night, and you happened to lose the lottery and cross their paths.

2. As for getting out of the car.... My initial reaction was "Yeah... Stay in the car" however I also know, the police are trained to do the exact opposite.... To get OUT of the car at the first sign of trouble. For the very fact that if you are strapped into a seat, you are a stationary and therefore DEAD target if somebody starts shooting at you.

DDT
05-13-2009, 10:54 AM
I looked up people v Clark and apparently my information is antequated on how Police are allowed to interprete "loaded". I stand corrected DDT. Thanks.

Glad to help out. It's never a bad thing to take the safest route when you don't know all the facts. There are a lot of folks here who have helped me better understand the laws. Last year, I would have thought the same thing. A Range employee told me that I couldn't have ammo locked in the same compartment as my gun AND that a filled mag is a loaded gun whether locked or not.

CalGuns has helped me very much in learning the ACTUAL law and controlling case laws.

A well armed citizenry is valuable whether the arms are firearms or knowledge.

Steve O
05-13-2009, 12:26 PM
Stevo wrote,
If I were to keep my pistol stored in my locked stainless steel samsonite brief case unloaded with slide in bolt open position, and loaded mag next to it but not in it or in any position to be fired. I'm sure the answer is that would be legal.

Sorry Steve but unless laws have changed this is considered a loaded firearm if it's in your vehicle and you would be subject to prosecution. Glad to hear you were O.K. otherwise.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=103660


12031(g) DEFINITION HAS BEEN MODIFIED BY CASE LAW!!!

The case is People v. Clark (1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53 Cal.Rptr.2d 99 available at this link.

FAQ first:

Yes, ammunition may be carried in the same container as the gun – loose ammunition or ammunition in ammo boxes does not make a gun loaded, because the ammunition is NOT “placed into a position from which it can be fired”.

Yes, you may transport loaded magazines and speed loaders, so long as they are not inserted into the magazine well or cylinder of the firearm. That does not make a gun loaded, because the ammunition carried that way is NOT “placed into a position from which it can be fired”.

No, a loaded magazine is not the same as a loaded weapon, and possession of a weapon and a loaded magazine for that weapon does not, necessarily, mean you have a loaded weapon.

Lancear15
05-13-2009, 1:13 PM
You are right that avoiding confrontation is the key thing here and I think you did a good job. But with 20/20 hind sight here is my .02

If you can you should first call 911 even if you have to put the phone down and just talk to them telling them exactly what is going on. It may be useless then and there but may be the difference between going home that night or going to jail if you do have to defend yourself. Next I would secure whatever weapons you have at your disposal. I recommend you carry bear mace, it is far more powerful then the key chain crap and can shoot 30 feet for 10 seconds with a very wide pattern, it isn't legal to use on humans but if your life is on the line, by all means, besides you bought it for camping and/or loose pit bulls which I have encountered in the past. Pulling over is a big mistake. Keep moving and drive to the closest police station. If you had called 911 they would have told you absolutely do not pull over.

BunnySlayer
05-14-2009, 1:50 AM
Lancear15 is correct IMHO. Even if I possessed a firearm at the time a 230 gr bullet doesnt compare with a six thousand pound vehicle as a weapon. Drive around, through or over the threat and head for the nearest Police station. At that point a gas pedal is as good or better than a trigger. Always avoid trouble and call police when possible. When not possible use whatever weapon God gives you at the time and thank him later.

DocSkinner
05-14-2009, 10:28 AM
I don't see any exemption for the injured in the Second Amendment. True, I don't see one for minors or felons, either. I know I'm in the minority here, but every human has the right to defend themselves and that includes the right to own and carry the tools to do it with.

I think you went too far on this one.

True and as OP sates - too few have an understanding of many different types of mental injuries there are.

Everything gets dumped into the big "crazy/retarded" stereotype. Kinda like how antis lump gun owners into one group of drunk stupid rednecks. I think we should leave lumping to them, and not make the same type of mistakes.

And hopefully with more time, your functionality will continue to improve. (I do know a little bit about neurology - PhD in Behavioral Neuroscience). And hopefully, in time, people will start questioning their malformed stereotypes and quit making rash statements/actions based upon on those incorrect stereotypes.

Riodog
05-14-2009, 12:39 PM
SteveO, sorry if I misconstrued what you meant by brain damaged. I have a 22 yo niece with an impairment and while she functions normally she does have mishaps from time to time. A gun negates the ability to say you're sorry and all is forgiven if it should be used when it's not legally justified. I'd rather see you run a stop sign to get away than start a gunfight on the street. Most bangers hang with multiples so that means that you'd be at a disadvantage trying to drive and shoot at the same time.

The flip side is that if you did get it on and came out on top then your only obstacle would be to convince the 'man' that you feared for your life-every time you walked out the door- and that's why you had the weapon.

Do what you gotta do but don't post it here.
Rio

GuyW
05-14-2009, 1:45 PM
....get OUT of the car at the first sign of trouble. For the very fact that if you are strapped into a seat, you are a stationary and therefore DEAD target if somebody starts shooting at you.

In this circumstance, stopping is a bad tactic IMHO. Evading them as you did by stopping/hiding is not the same as stopping in the road.

....keep moving...
.

squatting_caveboy
05-14-2009, 4:58 PM
I just don't see enough evidence to even consider thinking about drawing a weapon in this situation. Evading and calling the police is the level headed choice here. Stopping and/or following the suspect vehicle is not wise. Unless you were in emminent danger, life threatened, etc...I cannot fathom why we're even having this thread. IMHO....

No offense but you mention a "brain injury" - does this at all effect your ability to rationalize situations as trully life threatening?? Again, no offense, just asking a basic question that others seem to have overlooked - the closed 7-11 got more inquiry than did your physical/mental condition.

anthonyca
05-14-2009, 9:59 PM
Your mistake was pulling over. You have absolutely no reason to pull over when another driver is acting strangely. That's asking for trouble. Never pull over in a dispute type situation, such as road rage. Drive to a police station, or a well lit public place with people around. -W

There have been a few instances of people being beaten or killed on the police station steps. They have no obligation to protect you. That woman who was recorded on 911 comes to mind.

DDT
05-14-2009, 10:34 PM
the closed 7-11 got more inquiry than did your physical/mental condition.

That is probably because most people don't assume that brain injury means incapable of understanding without further evidence. It may also have to do with the fact that later posters actually read the full thread and saw that he addressed your question.

cousinkix1953
05-15-2009, 12:05 AM
"I noticed a closed 7-11."

is this even possible?

EDIT: how funny, as I read the entire story this popped out at me, I post, and Bruce had just posted the same thought
Yes it's possible, if the neighbors do enough *****ing at city hall. The 7/11 store across the street from the UCSC campus was put on restrictions too. They can't sell booze after 10 PM and must close at midnight under the terms of their business license...

gn3hz3ku1*
05-15-2009, 9:18 AM
better to be judge by 12.. then to be carried by 6 given your past right?

DocSkinner
05-15-2009, 11:29 AM
Yes it's possible, if the neighbors do enough *****ing at city hall. The 7/11 store across the street from the UCSC campus was put on restrictions too. They can't sell booze after 10 PM and must close at midnight under the terms of their business license...

they were originally only open from 7am to 11pm. there are some in places that still use those hours.

Nessal
05-18-2009, 3:27 AM
My uncle once told me a story that took place in the 80's. At that time he was in his 20's. One day he and his brother were driving and a car with 4 guys in it took exception to that. They were flipping the bird, cussing, swerved at them, called them out, etc. Not knowing what the problem was, they tried to drive away not wanting any conflict. But these guys wouldn't let off. They were persistant and wanted to make it physical. After more harassing, my uncles couldn't take it anymore and pulled out his baretta and showed them the business end of it. That's all it took for the four guys to wise up and go on their merry way.

He told me that it was a dumb thing to do but at the time, they were in fear for their lives. It's sad that it has to come down to that. Glad you didn't get hurt.

Kid Stanislaus
05-18-2009, 6:21 AM
Glad to hear your okay. Only in Kalifornia do you get in more trouble than your attacker for defending yourself.

Oh, try NYC, Chicago, Mass. and NJ!