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View Full Version : Man Arrested in San Diego with Four Machine Guns!


Mr. Beretta
05-11-2009, 6:02 PM
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/may/11/bn11hilliard13284/

:eek:

ivanimal
05-11-2009, 6:05 PM
We will not be representing him.:eek:

clonepsi
05-11-2009, 6:07 PM
More fuel for the anti-gunners. :mad:

Nachoman
05-11-2009, 6:15 PM
We will not be representing him.:eek:

Lol, was it the ski mask or the pipe bombs that led to this decision? :D

ProlificARProspect
05-11-2009, 6:17 PM
:confused::eek: This should be intresting......

Solidmch
05-11-2009, 6:22 PM
Lol, was it the ski mask or the pipe bombs that led to this decision? :D

I thought it might have been the hit and run that drove you to that conclusion.

Richie Caketown
05-11-2009, 6:26 PM
i think he was on his way to re enact that scene from HEAT ... it kinda sucks that people like this ruin it for others

PolishMike
05-11-2009, 6:30 PM
Holy ****..

jnojr
05-11-2009, 6:33 PM
I'm wondering how the ATF can determine they have "illegally converted machine guns" so quickly. Somehow, I can't picture them test-firing or even field stripping them right then and there.

There is at least a decent chance that they made their hyperbolic announcement now, and will never see a need to publish a retraction if they turn out to be "ordinary assault weapons".

bwiese
05-11-2009, 6:38 PM
The BATF is somewhat better at gun tech/legal issues than the Ca DOJ.

I imagine this guy came to their attention thru just being loudmouthed.

Untamed1972
05-11-2009, 6:38 PM
And why did he draw attention to himself? Driving erractically! How many guys get busted because of a simple traffic stop. Pretty amazing.....it's like they wanna get busted.

Ding126
05-11-2009, 6:43 PM
I don't think we will have to worry about seeing this guy again..He has about 100 yrs of violations pending

sickboy774
05-11-2009, 6:45 PM
I wish i could buy some of that ammo.

yellowfin
05-11-2009, 6:50 PM
If he was an illegal alien it would be catch and release.

Saigon1965
05-11-2009, 6:53 PM
Chief is that you?

Man arrested with machine guns identified
By Debbi Baker Union-Tribune Staff Writer
1:28 p.m. May 11, 2009
SAN DIEGO A man who had four unregistered machine guns and hundreds of rounds of ammunition in his car when he was arrested in Pacific Beach was identified Monday as 36-year-old Jason Hilliard of Lake Elsinore, authorities said.
Officers were trying to pull Hilliard over Wednesday for driving erratically when he crashed into another vehicle, said Special Agent Michael Hoffman of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Officers, who found the machine guns and ammunition among six firearms, also located a ski mask, duct tape and a large overcoat in the vehicle.
Agents determined four of the guns had been illegally converted from semi-automatic firearms into machine guns, Hoffman said.
A subsequent search of Hilliard's home turned up nine more guns, thousands of rounds of ammunition, a silencer and two pipe bombs, the special agent said.
The explosives, made from PVC pipes with caps at either end with screws inside, were disarmed by the Riverside County Sheriff's Department Bomb Squad.
"One can only imagine the death, destruction and mayhem that this one individual could have inflicted with those machine guns and pipe bombs," said John A. Torres, an ATF Special Agent in Charge from the Los Angeles office.
Hilliard, who is being held without bail, appeared in San Diego federal court Friday on charges of possessing an unregistered machine gun. He has a detention hearing scheduled for Tuesday morning in which a judge will decide if he should be granted bail and possibly be released from the Metropolitan Correctional Facility downtown, Hoffman said.
The special agent said Hilliard has no known criminal record. Investigators are still trying to determine his motive for collecting the arsenal.
Debbi Baker: (619) 293-1710; debbi.baker@uniontrib.com

Vtec44
05-11-2009, 6:58 PM
Chief is that you?


Oh snap! LOL

Stanze
05-11-2009, 7:02 PM
Lol, was it the ski mask or the pipe bombs that led to this decision? :D

I own a black ski mask and a shemagh and I am neither a rapist nor terrorist.

I do draw the line on high explosives though. Legalities aside I value my life, eyesight and limbs.

A couple boxes of .22LR can be considered "thousands of rounds" to the media and LE.

I'm neither defending or attacking the guy in the story, but just remember, SDPD thinks my OLL w/ BB is an "Assault Weapon" and won't give it back.

freonr22
05-11-2009, 7:11 PM
Lol, was it the ski mask or the pipe bombs that led to this decision? :D

i think it was the duct tape darn hvac people

leitung
05-11-2009, 7:15 PM
Oh come on... what a dumb ***...

He was up to something, I am glad they caught him before he did whatever he was going to do. We would have all paid the price for his actions.

bluestaterebel
05-11-2009, 7:18 PM
Chief?

Digital_Boy
05-11-2009, 7:19 PM
I'm neither defending or attacking the guy in the story, but just remember, SDPD thinks my OLL w/ BB is an "Assault Weapon" and won't give it back.
Slightly off topic, but if they honestly believe you had an unregistered AW, then why didn't they arrest and prosecute? Any chance of suing for damages and illegal seizure?

Ishoot
05-11-2009, 7:21 PM
What a fool....that's if what they wrote about him is true. :cool:

Glock22Fan
05-11-2009, 7:22 PM
Way I heard it, he was driving around looking for a buy-back program.

:rolleyes:

Stanze
05-11-2009, 7:30 PM
Slightly off topic, but if they honestly believe you had an unregistered AW, then why didn't they arrest and prosecute? Any chance of suing for damages and illegal seizure?

I would love to sue for my civil rights being violated, getting my lawful property back, pain and suffering, etc. but I can't afford an attorney--There's always a chance I'd lose to a judge/jury and/or be falsely charged/convicted and regret the endeavor.

It'd be cheaper to replace it and move on with my life. Wrong as hell and it was a sweet gun (DoubleStar lower, Stag 2HT upper, EoTech 512, YHM riser, Houge grip, Stag carbine tube assy. w/ Sig 556 stock, VFG, DPMS LPK, eBay magnifier clone w/ mount).

Sucks.

Vtec44
05-11-2009, 7:30 PM
Slightly off topic, but if they honestly believe you had an unregistered AW, then why didn't they arrest and prosecute? Any chance of suing for damages and illegal seizure?

That's an interesting situation. Can Gene shed some light on how a PD can legally do this without charging a person with a crime?

Deamer
05-11-2009, 7:31 PM
Special Agent Michael Hoffman of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Gene's man on the inside?

gunsmith
05-11-2009, 8:16 PM
A criminal broke the law, in other news, the Vatican reports the Pope is, indeed, Catholic.

I do wonder though, what gunshow he bought his machine guns from.

Deamer
05-11-2009, 8:23 PM
I do wonder though, what gunshow he bought his machine guns from.

He just crossed the border in Mexico, waited for them to be smuggled from the US, bought them for 100 each and then smuggled them back across the border.

1919_4_ME
05-11-2009, 8:25 PM
Somehow I dont think the Calguns Foundation will be representing him...:o

viras
05-11-2009, 8:26 PM
Just for the record, that's not USN CHIEF's real name. lol.

AaronHorrocks
05-11-2009, 9:21 PM
We will not be representing him.:eek:

Why so? Do you think the NFA rules are fair? I don't.

They mentioned "unregistered machinegun" several times... But since 1986 you just can't register another one.

Digital_Boy
05-11-2009, 9:23 PM
I would love to sue for my civil rights being violated, getting my lawful property back, pain and suffering, etc. but I can't afford an attorney--There's always a chance I'd lose to a judge/jury and/or be falsely charged/convicted and regret the endeavor.

It'd be cheaper to replace it and move on with my life. Wrong as hell and it was a sweet gun (DoubleStar lower, Stag 2HT upper, EoTech 512, YHM riser, Houge grip, Stag carbine tube assy. w/ Sig 556 stock, VFG, DPMS LPK, eBay magnifier clone w/ mount).

Sucks.

What was the situation that led to the confiscation, and how long ago? I'd like to avoid that happening to me.

RomanDad
05-11-2009, 9:24 PM
"Special Agent Hoffman???"


:D

JDay
05-11-2009, 9:39 PM
I would love to sue for my civil rights being violated, getting my lawful property back, pain and suffering, etc. but I can't afford an attorney--There's always a chance I'd lose to a judge/jury and/or be falsely charged/convicted and regret the endeavor.

It'd be cheaper to replace it and move on with my life. Wrong as hell and it was a sweet gun (DoubleStar lower, Stag 2HT upper, EoTech 512, YHM riser, Houge grip, Stag carbine tube assy. w/ Sig 556 stock, VFG, DPMS LPK, eBay magnifier clone w/ mount).

Sucks.

By VFG do you mean a vertical fore grip? If so it was indeed an unregistered "assault weapon".

nick
05-11-2009, 9:41 PM
By VFG do you mean a vertical fore grip? If so it was indeed an unregistered "assault weapon".

He also mentioned a BB.

RomanDad
05-11-2009, 9:42 PM
Why so? Do you think the NFA rules are fair? I don't.

They mentioned "unregistered machinegun" several times... But since 1986 you just can't register another one.

So the ski mask (in 80 degree weather) and pipe bombs dont give you pause for concern?

windsheer
05-11-2009, 9:46 PM
Back to the original post, this is exactly why we need lots more ccw permits.

Digital_Boy
05-11-2009, 10:06 PM
Back to the original post, this is exactly why we need lots more ccw permits.

Personally, I'd rather have something in .30 caliber or bigger with optics so that I have the advantage in range. I'd not want to be in CQB range against someone with a full auto AK or AR with only a concealable handgun.

Joe
05-11-2009, 10:13 PM
how could this happen? machine guns are illegal

gazzavc
05-11-2009, 11:13 PM
Wonder what they were?

gotgunz
05-12-2009, 12:18 AM
CalGunner headed to an UOC event?

obeygiant
05-12-2009, 12:45 AM
CalGunner headed to an UOC event?
:rofl2:

cousinkix1953
05-12-2009, 1:11 AM
The BATF is somewhat better at gun tech/legal issues than the Ca DOJ.

I imagine this guy came to their attention thru just being loudmouthed.
It sounds like stakeout to me. The BATFE isn't in the business of making routine traffic stops; but I have heard the G men reporting drunken drivers to their dispatcher on a police scanner. They continue trailing the suspect until the CHP or police take over...

Wild Squid
05-12-2009, 3:05 AM
Somehow I get the feeling that "machine guns" are just semi-automatic rifles. They don't tell the specifics of what was done to make the gun a machine gun. For all we know he could have just had a some GSG5's. I don't doubt this guy was probably a dangerous scumbag with pipe bombs, but there could a gross exaggeration of facts here. Ski mask? Maybe not. Pipe bombs? Maybe they just want to make it seem that way, could be something else. Long overcoat? How many of us here own long coats? I own about 10. Seriously, I just hate the fact that the media always spins stuff out of control. That is the very reason why CA has idiotic voters scared shatle$$ because of all the fear mongering brainwashing. At first read of this article, you would autmatically assume this guy was about to kill hundreds of people. But I'm so used to the media straight up lie out their stinky arses that I never believe anything they say anymore when it comes to guns. So until I hear this guy gets convicted in a court of law, I just don't believe it.

Stanze
05-12-2009, 3:32 AM
What was the situation that led to the confiscation, and how long ago? I'd like to avoid that happening to me.

If your firearm is seized by SDPD and it's a OLL w/ BB, their resident firearms "expert" will deem it an "assault weapon".

The details of my case have nothing to do with the fact that their gun expert is an idiot and a thief.

Have a nice day.:)

ilbob
05-12-2009, 6:22 AM
That's an interesting situation. Can Gene shed some light on how a PD can legally do this without charging a person with a crime?

its not about what is legal. it is about brute force.

problemchild
05-12-2009, 6:22 AM
If he was a Democrat he would be allowed to apologize and all would be good.

ilbob
05-12-2009, 6:26 AM
So the ski mask (in 80 degree weather) and pipe bombs dont give you pause for concern?
I have what might be described as a ski mask in my car year round. Just a convenient place to leave it. I leave my winter jacket in my car during the summer. Is that be a crime?

I might have duct tape in my car too. Cart me off to jail.

No pipe bombs or machine guns though.

glbtrottr
05-12-2009, 6:56 AM
Some people get a little cold. A ski mask and a trenchcoat aren't all that unusual. We just moved from Boston and Chicago - I may even have earmuffs, a ski mask and a coat somewhere in my dog car.

The pipe bombs? *that* is a different story. :)

Californio
05-12-2009, 7:04 AM
Here is another one, click on the link and hit the video (top right)


http://www.kcoy.com/Global/story.asp?S=10343474

Raid Uncovers Cache of Illegal Weapons
Posted: May 11, 2009 05:45 PM
Updated: May 11, 2009 05:45 PM
Featured Video
Raid Uncovers Cache of Illegal Weapons

5/11/09

RURAL ARROYO GRANDE -- Local authorities are on the hunt for a fugitive who is considered armed and very dangerous.

Detectives with the San Luis Obispo County Sheriff's Department have linked him to a massive cache of illegal weapons.

They have already arrested another man.

Deputies confiscated more than 200 illegal weapons during a raid of a rural Arroyo Grande home last week.

They include machine guns, semi-automatic weapons, handguns and a 20 mm canon.

A bounty hunter tipped them off to the stash. Investigators say he was after 52-year-old Alan Garrison.

"Weapons were just everywhere, accumulating in one room, at the threshold of the doorway and all over the room," said Richard Dunbar, a private bail agent.

About two years ago, Garrison was convicted and sentenced for weapons charges, but took off before serving the time.

Investigators believe Garrison was staying at 61-year-old Howard Krinsky's home in rural Arroyo Grande.

They fear the two men have been dealing the weapons to street gangs, militias or someone going to commit a crime.

Krinsky was arrested and is currently in jail, but deputies have not been able to track down Garrison.

Another raid was simultaneously carried out at a home in Arizona. Investigators thought Garrison might also be there. They found more weapons, but no sign of him.

Deputies say based on what they know and what they found, Garrison should not be approached.

Anyone with information about his whereabouts is asked to call the San Luis Obispo County Sheriff's Department or 911.

2 votes

Sam1
05-12-2009, 8:18 AM
:useless:

GP3
05-12-2009, 8:22 AM
Agents determined four of the guns had been illegally converted from semi-automatic firearms into machine guns, Hoffman said.

No good.

Legasat
05-12-2009, 8:26 AM
About this dingbat in San Diego, if you decide to play this game, you must be prepared to pay. It sounds like he will be paying for looooong time.

RomanDad
05-12-2009, 8:30 AM
About this dingbat in San Diego, if you decide to play this game, you must be prepared to pay. It sounds like he will be paying for looooong time.

Yeah... This is not the poster boy of gun owners we want associated with us.

WHenderson
05-12-2009, 8:39 AM
I'm wondering how the ATF can determine they have "illegally converted machine guns" so quickly. Somehow, I can't picture them test-firing or even field stripping them right then and there.

Test firing or field stripping is not necessarry to determine if a rifle/pistol is a machinegun. (Although the gov't will test fire it if you are facing charges.) It can be determined in less than a minute. There are different types of machine guns, some select fire, some full auto only. Lets take an unloaded AR as an example. It doesn't really matter what position the selector lever is in.
WITH AN UNLOADED GUN:
1. Cock gun. Pull charging handle and let it go.
2. Pull trigger. (hammer falls, you can hear it) keep trigger depressed.
3. Cock gun again. (pulling charging handle and letting go, let bolt cycle)
4. Let finger off trigger.
5 Pull trigger. If hammer falls, semi-auto. If hammer has already fallen, machinegun.

It doesn't matter if it's a true GI auto sear (hole in receiver), a DIAS (M16 parts), a lightning link (AR15 parts), missing the disconnector or its spring (homemade slam fire), No test firing/field stripping necessary. -W

windsheer
05-12-2009, 9:21 AM
Personally, I'd rather have something in .30 caliber or bigger with optics so that I have the advantage in range. I'd not want to be in CQB range against someone with a full auto AK or AR with only a concealable handgun.


That would never be the case, perhaps if you were a swat sniper druing a call ! If I heard a crazed shooter going nuts I would hope to be able to quick draw my ccw weapon and stop the shooter dead. No ccw, I would hit the ground or run. No one would just happen to being going about their day with a scoped rifle.

More leagal guns carried by local people = less crime !

jazman
05-12-2009, 9:53 AM
If all is true I hope they keep this loony off the streets for a long time, responsible gun owners don't need to be associated with nuts with pipe bombs, machine guns and the like.
As to the rest, I of course always take a ski mask and long coats to San Diego. Not.
Thankfully he wasn't wearing a kilt, PNS can sleep easy! :D

MrSigmaDOT40
05-12-2009, 10:06 AM
Can Anybody say (Possible) "Operation :68: the 2A"? :TFH:

Blackhawk556
05-12-2009, 10:38 AM
Special Agent Michael Hoffman of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

I see he has people on the inside :)

Liberty1
05-12-2009, 10:44 AM
Back to the original post, this is exactly why we need lots more ccw permits.


So I'm supposed to defend my family in a mall against that firepower with what, .45, .9mm, ..38? (OK .50 S&W would do it)

I want my 3 rd burst fire M4 w/folding stock at least. :D (and I would carry it - I'd even consider concealed too in my soft pack over the shoulder guitar case)

sb_pete
05-12-2009, 11:06 AM
So the ski mask (in 80 degree weather) and pipe bombs dont give you pause for concern?

Officers, who found the machine guns and ammunition among six firearms, also located a ski mask, duct tape and a large overcoat in the vehicle.

LOL, I keep a duffle in my car which has a spare set of extra work clothes (slacks, shirt, tie, etc.), a set of street clothes (jeans, t-shirt, etc), and some cold weather gear including a beanie and a ski mask, overpants and yes, a large overcoat. Now in my case it happens to be an ORANGE snowboarding jacket, but it is still indeed, a "large overcoat."

Duct tape? seriously. I have duct tape as well, along with some packing tape, tools and other "might need to fix my car on the side of the road" kind of stuff. Heck, I think it is stupid NOT to have duct tape in your car.

What else did he have in his car. Did he have a trunk full of crap including those items which, when mentioned in series and in isolation sound dangerous? Or did you open the trunk and and find a neatly packaged "robbery/home invasion kit" with machine guns, duct tape, mask, and jacket?

This guy had "thousands of rounds of ammunition" in his house. So what, that is normal for anyone who bought a case of .22lr (5K rds).

"One can only imagine the death, destruction and mayhem that this one individual could have inflicted with those machine guns and pipe bombs," said John A. Torres, an ATF Special Agent in Charge from the Los Angeles office
Now the pipe bombs and FA conversions are retarded and clearly show a lack of good judgement, but this by no means indicates this guy was about to go cause "death, destruction, and mayhem." Maybe he was, we don't know and probably won't. But I need more info before I can condemn this guy in my mind. He has no prior record and for all we know those pipe bombs could be dumb and semi-dangerous fun with no ill intent. Those FA guns could be broken and slam firing; they might just have those dumb little bump fire kits on them; they might be home made machine guns that the guy stupidly, but with no ill intent, shoots out in the desert; or there could be something sinister.

What were these "machine guns"? What else was in his trunk?

This article is sensationalist. I want facts. Too bad we'll never hear them...:(

SteveH
05-12-2009, 12:05 PM
I'm wondering how the ATF can determine they have "illegally converted machine guns" so quickly. Somehow, I can't picture them test-firing or even field stripping them right then and there.

There is at least a decent chance that they made their hyperbolic announcement now, and will never see a need to publish a retraction if they turn out to be "ordinary assault weapons".

Function check.

BroncoBob
05-12-2009, 12:17 PM
I think it was Boo looking for .454 :smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::rofl2::rofl2:

grammaton76
05-12-2009, 1:14 PM
So I'm supposed to defend my family in a mall against that firepower with what, .45, .9mm, ..38? (OK .50 S&W would do it)

I want my 3 rd burst fire M4 w/folding stock at least. :D (and I would carry it - I'd even consider concealed too in my soft pack over the shoulder guitar case)

What, you don't want that neat little Magpul fold-up SMG? Seems to me it'd be a little better than an M4 at everyday carry in civilian situations.

ilbob
05-12-2009, 1:18 PM
They include machine guns, semi-automatic weapons, handguns and a 20 mm canon. Where can i get one of those? :)

I was thinking about this. I bought these nifty containers that look like transparent pieces of pipe with some slide on end caps, and they are full of screws! No doubt these would be described as pipe bombs in a news report.

And in the same garage is duct tape.

Nachoman
05-12-2009, 1:18 PM
So I'm supposed to defend my family in a mall against that firepower with what, .45, .9mm, ..38? (OK .50 S&W would do it)


Nope, in that case your job is to provide cover and pester the gunman while your family runs for safety. Hopefully you'll have a chance to get out of there after. Sometimes you gotta take one for the team though.

MasterYong
05-12-2009, 1:37 PM
He has no prior record and for all we know those pipe bombs could be dumb and semi-dangerous fun with no ill intent.

Yeah except they had screws in them. Screws aren't added to pipe bombs for "fun" (I've had my fair share of having fun blowing things up when I was a kid) they're added as shrapnel. Shrapnel is dangerous to the operator (especially if his sole intent was just to "have fun blowing $*&% up in the dessert") and has no purpose other than to maim and/or kill the target.

NORMALLY, I would be on-board the "let's not jump to conclusions" boat but this guy was obviously a whacko, if he indeed did have pipe bombs. I'm all for the full legalization of all firearms but explosives and such need to be TIGHTLY regulated. It's bad enough that for my 2A rights to be preserved the drunken redneck that lives next to me has to keep his guns- I would be REALLY concerned if that same drunk was allowed to have explosives!

stag1500
05-12-2009, 1:48 PM
If he was a Democrat he would be allowed to apologize and all would be good.

Aha! I think you're definitely on to something. What we need to stay under the radar in this state are 'Obama/Biden' bumper stickers! :D

GuyW
05-12-2009, 2:45 PM
...the drunken redneck that lives next to me has to keep his guns

But you're good with drunken non-Causasian non-rednecks with guns, right??
.

MasterYong
05-12-2009, 2:52 PM
But you're good with drunken non-Causasian non-rednecks with guns, right??
.

Ok. You got me. I wasn't generalizing. In fact, I hate everyone of every creed, color, and social status except purple people eaters that only drink during full moons and watch Maury Povich.

DAMN you're good.

:detective:

RRangel
05-12-2009, 3:15 PM
The sky is falling.

dexter9659
05-12-2009, 5:42 PM
The sky is falling.

I'll help you hold it up.

Its a shame to see people step on the toes of those who put forth such a valiant effort to further our 2nd Amendment rights. I am glad however no "worse" case scenario occurred.

sb_pete
05-12-2009, 10:10 PM
They include machine guns, semi-automatic weapons, handguns and a 20 mm canon.
Where can i get one of those? :)

Just head on over to Anzio IronWorks (http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm). They have a few offerings. Here is one next to a .50 just to show the awesome size of them.
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo251/sb_pete/20mmwith50a-1.jpg

There are also plenty of others to be had like this surplus Finnish Lahti WWII anti-tank gun:
http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo251/sb_pete/dudecarryingalahti.jpg

This is probably what the media means when you hear 20mm cannon. The autocannon or Vulcan you are thinking of would be referred to as a "deadly anti-aircraft cannon" or a "massive gatling gun." Both terms, incidentally, would be accurate, but they will always go for the scariest sounding noun :rolleyes:

-Pete

hawk81
05-13-2009, 4:46 AM
I don't feel like this guy broke any firearms laws. All firearms laws are unconstitutional. However he might have boken some explosive device laws, due to the fact that explosive devices are not guaranteed under the constitution. This guy was dumb for being so reckless.

trinydex
05-13-2009, 9:13 AM
A criminal broke the law, in other news, the Vatican reports the Pope is, indeed, Catholic.

I do wonder though, what gunshow he bought his machine guns from.

he had no previous record so he's not a criminal yet.

7x57
05-13-2009, 9:22 AM
Just head on over to Anzio IronWorks (http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm). They have a few offerings. Here is one next to a .50 just to show the awesome size of them.




Mag-Fed 20MM Rifle

Features:

* 49 match grade fluted barrel
* Heavy duty clam-shell brake
* Detachable box magazine
* Available in 14.5mm, 20mm, and new Anzio 20-50 calibers
* Titanium firing pin
* 5000 yard maximum range
* Optional weights and configurations
* Huge amounts of fun
* Low recoil



<speechless>

7x57

elenius
05-13-2009, 10:04 AM
So they searched his car due to a drunk/erratic driving stop? Might this get thrown out on a technicality due to the recent supreme court decision that, IIRC, said that a search has to be related to the reason for the stop? I hope so -- not because I feel for the guy but because I don't want him to set bad precedent on machine guns etc.

sb_pete
05-13-2009, 4:51 PM
I don't feel like this guy broke any firearms laws. All firearms laws are unconstitutional. However he might have boken some explosive device laws, due to the fact that explosive devices are not guaranteed under the constitution. This guy was dumb for being so reckless.

Really? The wording of the 2A is "arms" not "guns." I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but by your own logic, how does this square? Are explosives not to be considered arms?


Low recoil
<speechless>
Well, in fairness, they do have 49" long, massive barrels, that muzzle brake is about the size of a human head and the minimum weight for those rifles is 59lbs for the model without bipod, or barrel shroud and before the scope and suppressor. They are available with ballast weighting to make them as much as "130 lbs and up." They also have a pintle mount available and what looks to be about a two foot long suppressor option. I imagine that the recoil probably is pretty well moderated. Of course, you do need a long-bed pickup to get the thing to the range, but...:D

donstarr
05-13-2009, 4:57 PM
Of course, you do need a longstandard-bed pickup to get the thing to the range

Fixed it. (A "normal" bed carries a 4'x8' sheet of plywood or drywall "flat".)

AlexBreya
05-13-2009, 5:19 PM
Did he have nails or anything attached to the pipe bombs? If not, then he shouldn't be charged for them. If they were just plain PVC pipes filled with some powder, odds are he was just making fireworks.

sb_pete
05-13-2009, 7:13 PM
Fixed it. (A "normal" bed carries a 4'x8' sheet of plywood or drywall "flat".)

LOL, fair enough. You are in fact correct sir. Of course, with a short bed (6') being the norm and a standard (8') bed being something of a rarity and special order item at most dealerships, perhaps those terms are due for a revision? I have always thought of "long bed" as "full-sized bed" (technically incorrect I know, but *shrug*); whereas I have always though of "short-bed" as "std" or "normal-size."
On a related note, is there actually a standard for "long bed"? Did manufacturers ever used to offer 10' beds or the like? And by that I am excluding flat and stake beds.

Did he have nails or anything attached to the pipe bombs? If not, then he shouldn't be charged for them. If they were just plain PVC pipes filled with some powder, odds are he was just making fireworks.
They said he had put screws in them. Are you sure about that though? I am genuinely curious. I always thought a pipe bomb was a pipe bomb. I didn't know they would classify them as fireworks. Are you sure about this? Of course, if you are right, he would still be charged with something there. Fireworks being proscribed in SD county, this would go down as illegal manufacture of fireworks or something had they not had the screws in them, right?

randy
05-14-2009, 12:33 AM
Personally, I'd rather have something in .30 caliber or bigger with optics so that I have the advantage in range. I'd not want to be in CQB range against someone with a full auto AK or AR with only a concealable handgun.


I don't remember his name but the guy that was wacking people in Texas from the tower with a M1A was killed with a .38 revolver.

It's the carpenter not the tool.

randy
05-14-2009, 12:38 AM
Test firing or field stripping is not necessarry to determine if a rifle/pistol is a machinegun. (Although the gov't will test fire it if you are facing charges.) It can be determined in less than a minute. There are different types of machine guns, some select fire, some full auto only. Lets take an unloaded AR as an example. It doesn't really matter what position the selector lever is in.
WITH AN UNLOADED GUN:
1. Cock gun. Pull charging handle and let it go.
2. Pull trigger. (hammer falls, you can hear it) keep trigger depressed.
3. Cock gun again. (pulling charging handle and letting go, let bolt cycle)
4. Let finger off trigger.
5 Pull trigger. If hammer falls, semi-auto. If hammer has already fallen, machinegun.

It doesn't matter if it's a true GI auto sear (hole in receiver), a DIAS (M16 parts), a lightning link (AR15 parts), missing the disconnector or its spring (homemade slam fire), No test firing/field stripping necessary. -W

Just because the hammer follows doesn't mean the gun will fire FA.

818gtiguy
05-14-2009, 1:55 AM
this guy is ****ed....

stupidhead
05-14-2009, 9:38 AM
They include machine guns, semi-automatic weapons, handguns and a 20 mm canon.


Fan-freaking-tastic. They're violating his 1A rights by confiscating his photographic equipment and preventing his freedom of speech!

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9918/canonef20mmf28usmlens.jpg











:whistling:

Racefiend
05-14-2009, 9:54 AM
Just because the hammer follows doesn't mean the gun will fire FA.

Exactly. You can put a FAL in the FA position and the hammer will follow the BC after the first shot, but it will not fire again. It's also not considered a machinegun.

DocSkinner
05-14-2009, 10:01 AM
Where can i get one of those? :)

I was thinking about this. I bought these nifty containers that look like transparent pieces of pipe with some slide on end caps, and they are full of screws! No doubt these would be described as pipe bombs in a news report.

And in the same garage is duct tape.

hum - do they have fuses or igniters and explosives mixed in with the screws (look through teh clear plastic...) ;-)

hawk81
05-14-2009, 10:12 AM
Read the federalists papers and you will understand our founding fathers logic.


Really? The wording of the 2A is "arms" not "guns." I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but by your own logic, how does this square? Are explosives not to be considered arms?



Well, in fairness, they do have 49" long, massive barrels, that muzzle brake is about the size of a human head and the minimum weight for those rifles is 59lbs for the model without bipod, or barrel shroud and before the scope and suppressor. They are available with ballast weighting to make them as much as "130 lbs and up." They also have a pintle mount available and what looks to be about a two foot long suppressor option. I imagine that the recoil probably is pretty well moderated. Of course, you do need a long-bed pickup to get the thing to the range, but...:D

sb_pete
05-15-2009, 11:01 PM
Read the federalists papers and you will understand our founding fathers logic.

Hmm, Why is it you think that explosives should not be considered arms per the writers of the 2A? I have read many, but admittedly not all of the Federalist Papers,so perhaps I am missing something. I have always understood their logic to mean arms. Period. Full stop. knives, swords, guns, cannons, artillery, explosives, etc. Separated from any modern reasoning one way or the other, what are you thinking the founders were saying in the 2A that would make explosives not part of the equation?

Solidsnake87
05-16-2009, 1:41 AM
Holy crap, with a collection like that...........the guy had it coming. If you can't do the time don't do the crime.......................

crispybutternuts
05-27-2009, 3:33 AM
The "screws" were holding the bombs together...:D

AaronHorrocks
05-27-2009, 7:02 AM
So the ski mask (in 80 degree weather) and pipe bombs dont give you pause for concern?

The stuff in the back of my truck might freak someone out too. Water, MREs, various military gear, kabar, shovel, tire iron. When you add those items up, it might look evil or dangerous. One time Carlos Mencia talked about needing to run to the store to pick up some condoms and catfood, two immediate needs. However when those are the only two things you're buying it looks like you're a pervert. So he paid cash. :p

how could this happen? machine guns are illegal

There's no such thing as an illegal gun, only unconstitutional laws.


Yep, he's probably a bad guy, so punish him for doing, or planning to do bad things. But blaming the arms? The objects that have no free will? The things we have rights to that are protected by the documents that created this great country?... Sorry, I don't buy it.

.454
05-27-2009, 7:26 AM
I think it was Boo looking for .454 :smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::rofl2::rofl2:

Nope. If the guy they arrested was Boo, they wouldn't have arrested him in the first place. Most likely they would have let him go after asking him to promise this won't happen again. There is an old saying: a weasel will never harm another weasel.

Beatone
05-27-2009, 7:28 AM
Wow,I guess the ATF finally found someone with machine guns. :rolleyes:

FLIGHT762
05-27-2009, 7:47 AM
I don't remember his name but the guy that was wacking people in Texas from the tower with a M1A was killed with a .38 revolver.

It's the carpenter not the tool.

Charles Whitman. He used a M-1 Carbine, not an M1-A(this was in 1966, M1-A's were not born yet.) He also used a 6mm Rem. rifle W/scope(most of the people were killed with that rifle),a shotgun, 35 Rem. pump rifle and a few hand guns.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

motorhead
05-27-2009, 8:32 AM
christ, i missed this. guy's a one man crime wave. maybe he was smuggling them IN from mexico.

TatankaGap
05-27-2009, 8:55 AM
All joking aside - this guy is WACKO ~

yeah, we all have duct tape and some things in the car that when viewed in the wrong light, could give a bad impression (I've got a geiger counter) - but that's alot different -

4 converted guns.....(semi-auto to auto)
ski mask, duct tape & long coat on hot day in San Diego
pipebombs with screws inside

This guy looks like a homegrown terrorist or that he was urged to look like that for someone's agenda - doesn't matter - he's an idiot going away long time -

WACKOs like this translate into the smartness of getting CCW (and shall issue asap), if not avail, working with LUCC and UOC, keep a rifle in the car (unloaded and unlocked is fine) and ammo handy, and maybe get a Class III-A vest -

It's going to get worse before it gets better and IMHO, it won't get better until there are enough responsible armed citizens around always so that the WACKO won't know who or where they are ~ and at the same time, we all need to put some focus on intervening with folks who are going crazy from actually going WACKO -

The more I focus on this, the more convinced I am that it is up to us, those who have taken oaths to serve and protect the Constitution, those who are part of the Citizens Militia due to being able-bodied, ready & willing for public service -, to be the ones to intervene before some potentially crazy dude ripens and matures into full WACKO-ness -

Otherwise, it will be more of the same - we get a few victories, some WACKO goes nuts with a gun and we spend years fighting against and/or undoing some emotionally based laws that are unconstitutional at least and truly harmful to society at worst -

And more mental illness from the economic downturn, less tax base so there is less money for social services which means more untreated mental illness and just add guns, and we got a problem here....

Thanks for letting me sound off.... ;)

Stormfeather
05-27-2009, 9:15 AM
but just remember, SDPD thinks my OLL w/ BB is an "Assault Weapon" and won't give it back.

It'd be cheaper to replace it and move on with my life. Wrong as hell and it was a sweet gun (DoubleStar lower, Stag 2HT upper, EoTech 512, YHM riser, Houge grip, Stag carbine tube assy. w/ Sig 556 stock, VFG, DPMS LPK, eBay magnifier clone w/ mount).

By VFG do you mean a vertical fore grip? If so it was indeed an unregistered "assault weapon".

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzttttttttt. . wrong answer.

please refer back to. . . . http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf before you start dispensing FUD.

SCMA-1
05-27-2009, 9:55 AM
There's no such thing as an illegal gun, only unconstitutional laws.

Yep, he's probably a bad guy, so punish him for doing, or planning to do bad things. But blaming the arms? The objects that have no free will? The things we have rights to that are protected by the documents that created this great country?... Sorry, I don't buy it.

It's sad but gunowners are often times their worst enemy. Many sit there all day in front of their computer and espouse the 2A yet never really have an understanding for it's true intent. I saw this during the enactment of the 89 Roberti Roos "AW" Ban; many groups of gunowners turned their backs on the fight because they were "hunters" or they were "target shooters" and didn't own those ugly black guns and therefore didn't see a need for them.

2A guarantees my inherent and fundamental right to defend against tyranny by use of any and all common and effective weapons available and in use by my potential oppressor (ie, GOV). That includes small arms of ALL types, edged weapons, explosive devices, area weapons, artillery and anything else I deem necessary to prevent my country from being enslaved once again by a government that turns against it's citizens.

SCMA-1

EDR
05-27-2009, 10:32 AM
That guy reminds me of the gun-ho guy in "Highlander"

http://www.lightsabre.co.uk/Interviews/chrismalcolmkirk.jpg
http://www.filmdope.com/Gallery/ActorsM/10937-8556.gif/

DDT
05-27-2009, 12:00 PM
"gun-ho" LOL