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highpowermatch
05-11-2009, 3:46 PM
Hello,

Can I ship a gun to a Ca FFL that is not on the safety roster?

thanks

Corbin Dallas
05-11-2009, 3:57 PM
Yes you can. The limitation would be an AW status handgun such as the external mag types, but if those are in conforming state than those can be shipped as well. I understand you asking the question, keep in mind that LE folks can purchase non-roster handguns.


What???

No you cannot ship a gun to CA that is NOT on the approved list.

Who told you this????

Ok, wait. Let me clairify this. You cannot ship a off list weapon to a FFL for any NON-LEO to purchase. Off list weapons CAN be transfered by PPT but not a dealer sale.

highpowermatch
05-11-2009, 4:03 PM
I am selling a Stoeger Luger 22LR on gunbroker and this guy in So Cal wants it but the DOJ told him only PPT face to face at a dealer not shipped. just wanted to verify because he was told 2 different answers from the DOJ, first guy said yes second said no.

munkeeboi
05-11-2009, 4:04 PM
If it's off roster...you cannot ship it to a CA FFL unless you are LEO. The FFL won't be able to do anything with it except send it back to the seller.

munkeeboi
05-11-2009, 4:05 PM
I am selling a Stoeger Luger 22LR on gunbroker and this guy in So Cal wants it but the DOJ told him only PPT face to face at a dealer not shipped. Can someone give me a link to the actual law showing its legal?

PPT is ok for non-roster handguns....meaning FACE TO FACE....you 2 have to be at the same place at the same time doing the transfer.

Corbin Dallas
05-11-2009, 4:06 PM
I am selling a Stoeger Luger 22LR on gunbroker and this guy in So Cal wants it but the DOJ told him only PPT face to face at a dealer not shipped. just wanted to verify because he was told 2 different answers from the DOJ, first guy said yes second said no.

You would have to sell the weapon FACE TO FACE as a PPT sale.

No-go on shipping unless the buyer is LEO or exempt.

highpowermatch
05-11-2009, 4:09 PM
Crap! thought so. Thanks guys. Friggin roster!!!!! The guy wants one so bad he was going to fly out here since he is a pilot. If you know anyone in socal with one let me know so I can hook the poor guy up.

MKE
05-11-2009, 4:44 PM
Crap! thought so. Thanks guys. Friggin roster!!!!! The guy wants one so bad he was going to fly out here since he is a pilot. If you know anyone in socal with one let me know so I can hook the poor guy up.
Or he can pay for your transportation at his location, which would be better for him since he won't have to make two trips - one for the DROS, another after 10 days. :D

Gives you a chance to visit this part of the state too.

highpowermatch
05-11-2009, 4:47 PM
Now I like that idea MKE! :thumbsup:

WileyWilly
05-11-2009, 4:47 PM
Crap! thought so. Thanks guys. Friggin roster!!!!! The guy wants one so bad he was going to fly out here since he is a pilot. If you know anyone in socal with one let me know so I can hook the poor guy up.

PM sent

DDT
05-11-2009, 5:20 PM
Maybe "The right people" want to chime in. I know there is no part of the Penal Code that defines a PPT as requiring both parties to be present. A mail PPT should be legal by reading of the statute but DOJ has decided it isn't.

Vin496
05-11-2009, 5:56 PM
Maybe "The right people" want to chime in. I know there is no part of the Penal Code that defines a PPT as requiring both parties to be present. A mail PPT should be legal by reading of the statute but DOJ has decided it isn't.

It's not that it is not allowed, my understanding is that the DROS system requires both DL to be scanned, and this is only possible if both parties are there at the same time.

Maestro Pistolero
05-11-2009, 6:12 PM
Wait a minute. Even face to face you can't buy an off list gun via PPT from an out of stater. You are then importing an off list firearm. You are both on the hook for that one. The only way I am aware of, would be to buy the OL gun from a person who legally brought it with him when relocating to CA to become a resident.

bwiese
05-11-2009, 6:14 PM
Maybe "The right people" want to chime in. I know there is no part of the Penal Code that defines a PPT as requiring both parties to be present. A mail PPT should be legal by reading of the statute but DOJ has decided it isn't.

Correct.

This fight over "both parties present at the PPT" and the underground regulation requiring dual DL scans isn't worth the fight, when we can and will take the whole Roster down.

MP301
05-11-2009, 6:30 PM
What???

No you cannot ship a gun to CA that is NOT on the approved list.

Who told you this????

Ok, wait. Let me clairify this. You cannot ship a off list weapon to a FFL for any NON-LEO to purchase. Off list weapons CAN be transfered by PPT but not a dealer sale.

There is nothing illegal with shipping a non rostered handgun to a Ca FFL. But FFL's, for some reason (underground regs) think that the seller has to be present with the buyer to make it person to person transfer. No place in the statute does it say that. whether the seller is there or not, its still a PPT.

Getting the FFL's to get a pair is another story, so until then the only people that most FFL's will transfer to is an LEO or for the FFL's personal purchase.

Incidently, there is no crime committed by shipping an off roster handgun to a CA FFL. He may not transfer it out of DOJ BOF FUD, but no one is going to get in trouble.

Any one know of any statute I missed invalidating my information, by all means.... Educate me!

MP301
05-11-2009, 6:34 PM
Maybe "The right people" want to chime in. I know there is no part of the Penal Code that defines a PPT as requiring both parties to be present. A mail PPT should be legal by reading of the statute but DOJ has decided it isn't.

100 points for someone besides me paying attention here!

Wait a minute. Even face to face you can't buy an of list gun via PPT from an out of stater. You are then importing an off list firearm. You are both on the hook for that one. The only way I am aware of, would be to buy the OL gun from a person who legally brought it with him when relocating to CA to become a resident.

F U D


Correct.

This fight over "both parties present at the PPT" and the underground regulation requiring dual DL scans isn't worth the fight, when we can and will take the whole Roster down.


If anyone would know, this would be him!

eltee
05-11-2009, 6:34 PM
It's not that it is not allowed, my understanding is that the DROS system requires both DL to be scanned, and this is only possible if both parties are there at the same time.

I've seen sales where the DL was not scanned, just photocopied and the info logged in with the computerize DROS. IIRC, some of the smaller dealers and gunshow transfer dealers don't scan. Is that a requirement?

JDay
05-11-2009, 11:28 PM
How old is this pistol? If its over 50 it should qualify as C&R which makes it roster exempt.

hoffmang
05-12-2009, 1:08 AM
The out of state seller can not "import for sale an unsafe handgun."

Just wait a moment for the handgun roster to be ruled unconstitutional.

-Gene

Maestro Pistolero
05-12-2009, 1:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro Pistolero
Wait a minute. Even face to face you can't buy an of list gun via PPT from an out of stater. You are then importing an off list firearm. You are both on the hook for that one. The only way I am aware of, would be to buy the OL gun from a person who legally brought it with him when relocating to CA to become a resident.

Originally posted by MP301: F U D

Next time check my posts, MP301. I am not a FUD type of guy. But I do tend to know what I am talking about before I post. I suggest you do the same before recommending someone commit a felony.

cousinkix1953
05-12-2009, 2:32 AM
The guy in Santa Rosa and the buyer so-Cal should find a gun shop half way between their locations. They can do the paperwork there , if the buyer has the ten days of vacation time to stay in the area and wait for his .22 caliber Stoeger Luger. I can't think of any other way to buy an off-list handgun.

These are from the 60s / 70s and aren't C&Rs. Buy a real Luger if you can't take the paperwork or stupid laws...

JDay
05-12-2009, 6:09 AM
The guy in Santa Rosa and the buyer so-Cal should find a gun shop half way between their locations. They can do the paperwork there , if the buyer has the ten days of vacation time to stay in the area and wait for his .22 caliber Stoeger Luger. I can't think of any other way to buy an off-list handgun.

These are from the 60s / 70s and aren't C&Rs. Buy a real Luger if you can't take the paperwork or stupid laws...

They've been around longer and some are indeed C&R.

highpowermatch
05-12-2009, 7:16 AM
It was built in the 70's so not a C&R.

CHS
05-12-2009, 11:13 AM
FYI, there is no need to "scan" the ID of either the buyer or the seller. Scanning them just makes DROS entry easier. If you've got the sellers information, then a photocopy would be fine.

However, the seller does need to thumbprint and sign the DROS paperwork, which throws a wrinkle into the plan.

CHS
05-12-2009, 12:18 PM
This is a bit out there, but is this even possible? Seller in North, Buyer in South..both residents. Can the seller provide a notarized fingerprint + a copy of their id and send to the buyers FFL? For the DROS, can it be faxed to the seller for signiature? Or does it have to be all original?

Sounds good to me. Is it legal/doable? I have NO idea. heh.