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Dirtbiker
05-11-2009, 9:39 AM
I'm looking into buying a single action pistol from up north. What is the process in getting it shipped?

Can the seller ship it direct to my FFL or does it have to go from FFL to FFL?

Vin496
05-11-2009, 9:47 AM
I'm looking into buying a single action pistol from up north. What is the process in getting it shipped?

Can the seller ship it direct to my FFL or does it have to go from FFL to FFL?

Only FFL required by law is your FFL. Though many FFLs will not accept a gun from a non FFL, so check with yours 1st to see if they will accept from a non FFL.

Is that enough FFLs? LOL.

Here is the thing shipping a gun by a non FL can only be done through FedEx or UPS, the gun must be declared(by law) and shipped overnight. No where on the box can it list it's contents. Also must be shipped from a UPS/Fedex Hub, not a Kinkos/UPS store.

I have done this and it will cost around $60+.

If you use an FFL to ship depending on the FFL, the prices can be less, since they are allowed to ship USPS. Check with the shipping FFL first, for their prices.

ke6guj
05-11-2009, 12:19 PM
Here is the thing shipping a gun by a non FL can only be done through FedEx or UPS, the gun must be declared(by law) and shipped overnight. No where on the box can it list it's contents. Also must be shipped from a UPS/Fedex Hub, not a Kinkos/UPS store.bolded part is incorrect. If being shipped to an FFL, federal law does not require you to declare to the shipper that you are shipping a firearm. Now, UPS/Fedex rules may require declaration in order to be able to collect the insurance if lost/damaged, but it is not against the law to not declare a firearms shipmnet going to an FFL.

If you use an FFL to ship depending on the FFL, the prices can be less, since they are allowed to ship USPS. Check with the shipping FFL first, for their prices.yup, may be cheaper, even after you pay the shipping FFL for their time. Plus, since the shipment is now coming from an FFL, the CFLC process has to complied with as well.

dfletcher
05-11-2009, 1:47 PM
Regarding the handgun being shipped from a nonFFL to your FFL, I think communication in advance is the key.

If your FFL states he'll accept the gun with a photocopy of the sender's DL be certain of what he means - as in, with the guy's photo clearly showing and with the guy's address & with the guy's DL # clearly visible. Then make certain the sender is informed in writing of the exact requirements - you don't want the guy's DL showing up with the address and/or DL # blacked out and have to get involved in conflict negotiations with a guy who won't send more info and the FFL who won't release your gun.

Vin496
05-11-2009, 2:40 PM
bolded part is incorrect. If being shipped to an FFL, federal law does not require you to declare to the shipper that you are shipping a firearm. Now, UPS/Fedex rules may require declaration in order to be able to collect the insurance if lost/damaged, but it is not against the law to not declare a firearms shipmnet going to an FFL.

You sure about that?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

ke6guj
05-11-2009, 2:47 PM
You sure about that?

yup. The ATF FAQ is incorrect/incomplete.

Sec. 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger
who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported
aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in
interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said
firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor
or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that
trip without violating any provision of this part. that part about "to any person other than a licensed......." is the importatnt part. If you are shipping to one of those licensed people, you don't have to provide written notice to the carrier.

Vin496
05-11-2009, 3:46 PM
yup. The ATF FAQ is incorrect/incomplete.

that part about "to any person other than a licensed......." is the importatnt part. If you are shipping to one of those licensed people, you don't have to provide written notice to the carrier.

Maybe I'm just dense, but what I read is,

No person shall send via contract carrier a firearm to anyone other those licensed(importer,manufacturer,dealer,collector) without informing the carrier.

Where does it say it is not necessary to inform them?

ke6guj
05-11-2009, 4:14 PM
Maybe I'm just dense, but what I read is,

No person shall send via contract carrier a firearm to anyone other those licensed(importer,manufacturer,dealer,collector) without informing the carrier.

Where does it say it is not necessary to inform them?it doesn't. Turn it aroudn, where does it say that it IS necessary to inform them when shipping to a licensed individual. It doesn't.

That is because the PC and federal codes normally work as "everything is legal unless specifically prohibited." So, if if the law states that if you are shipping to a non-licensed individual, you must inform the shipper, and does not include shipments to licensees in that law, then it does not apply when shipping to a licensee.

Vin496
05-11-2009, 4:25 PM
it doesn't. Turn it aroudn, where does it say that it IS necessary to inform them when shipping to a licensed individual. It doesn't.

That is because the PC and federal codes normally work as "everything is legal unless specifically prohibited." So, if if the law states that if you are shipping to a non-licensed individual, you must inform the shipper, and does not include shipments to licensees in that law, then it does not apply when shipping to a licensee.

No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to
any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in
interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed
importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector,
any package or other container in which there is any firearm or
ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or
ammunition is being transported or shipped

Doesn't that say right there, the carrier must be informed?

I am just not following your train of thought.

This section say you can only use a common carrier to ship to a licensed individual, and must inform the carrier.

ke6guj
05-11-2009, 4:29 PM
Doesn't that say right there, the carrier must be informed?

If I am shipping to a person OTHER than a licensed..... then that section does not apply to me.

Vin496
05-11-2009, 4:35 PM
If I am shipping to a person OTHER than a licensed..... then that section does not apply to me.

Then what was your point?

We were talking about shipping to an FFL, you said I was wrong in that FedEx/UPS had to be informed by law.

Now your saying you must inform them if you ship to a licensed person, just not if the person is "Other".

We were never talking about an "other" person, we were talking about a licensed person.

hawk1
05-11-2009, 4:36 PM
Also make sure that it comforms to exemption: 6" barrel and 10.5 oal.

Those numbers are wrong.


The exemption is:

• Single-shot pistols with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that have an overall length of at least 10 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled. (Penal Code 12133.)

ke6guj
05-11-2009, 4:47 PM
Then what was your point?

We were talking about shipping to an FFL, you said I was wrong in that FedEx/UPS had to be informed by law.

Now your saying you must inform them if you ship to a licensed person, just not if the person is "Other".

We were never talking about an "other" person, we were talking about a licensed person.

my mistake, I totally said that wrong.

I meant, if I am shipping a firearm to a person other than a licensed .... then that section DOES apply. But if I am shipping to a licensed person, then that section does not apply.

Vin496
05-11-2009, 4:51 PM
Oh man you had me all confused, lol.

Now clear this up for me, what is an "other"?

Would that be me shipping a pistol to myself, from one State to another? Or a father shipping a gun to his son within the same State?

ke6guj
05-11-2009, 4:58 PM
Oh man you had me all confused, lol.

Now clear this up for me, what is an "other"?

Would that be me shipping a pistol to myself, from one State to another? yup. Or a executor of an estate shipping a firearm to a benefiary of the estate.

Or a father shipping a gun to his son within the same State?that would be an intrastate transfer, and federal law does not normally apply in that situation. Notice tht 478.31 applies to interstate and foreign commerce, not intrastate commerce.

Vin496
05-11-2009, 5:10 PM
yup. Or a executor of an estate shipping a firearm to a benefiary of the estate.

that would be an intrastate transfer, and federal law does not normally apply in that situation. Notice tht 478.31 applies to interstate and foreign commerce, not intrastate commerce.

I noticed the interstate/intrastate difference, I was just curious.

Thanks for the info, I still learn things here everyday.:thumbsup:

Vin496
05-11-2009, 5:37 PM
Those numbers were correct or are you saying because I didn't say "at least". The subject has been discussed multiple times that certain things can be interpreted/acknowledged although not written.

In Hawk's defense, it read to me as 10 inch overall or 6 inch maximum barrel. I am not familiar with exempt pistols and that is how I read it. Which turns out would be a huge difference in breaking the law or not.

If your going to pass on info you should make it clear, or not exclude words that could leave it to be interpreted as something else.

Quiet
05-11-2009, 7:07 PM
I'm looking into buying a single action pistol from up north.

Single-action pistols (such as 1911s & BHPs) are not exempt from the approved list.
Unless they are C&R.

So, are you talking about a single-action revolver or a single-shot pistol?
Because they both have different size requirements in order to be exempt.


Penal Code 12133
(a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

hawk1
05-12-2009, 8:34 AM
Those numbers were correct or are you saying because I didn't say "at least". The subject has been discussed multiple times that certain things can be interpreted/acknowledged although not written.

You wrote:
Also make sure that it comforms to exemption: 6" barrel and 10.5 oal.

First, your post could be interpreted to say a 6 inch barrel is the only length which is not true. It just can't be shorter than 6 inches.

Second, to just write "and 10.5 oal" at first glance a person could read it as the overall length stops at 10.5 inches. You need to tell them "at least" or "no smaller than".

Minor points? Sure, but by being very specific it helps to keep this place from being a zoo with multiple posts asking why such and such would not be legal.
Believe me when I say they ask as I have a Sig 556 pistol up for sale here and already received one pm asking how is it legal to own based on this post and your numbers posted.

Sam
05-12-2009, 8:50 PM
The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

Is this the only thing to keep in mind to transfer into the state off list pistols? Are there any sources for single shot uppers for 1911s?