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45_acp
05-11-2009, 1:34 AM
when did it become law that handguns had to be registerd. Does anyone have the year and date on when that went into affect.

Quiet
05-11-2009, 2:22 AM
Handgun registration is not mandatory.

1923(?) is when CA began handgun "registration" via DROS.
AFAIK. data acquired before 01-01-1980 has never been entered into the AFS database.

01-01-1991 is when it became mandatory for all firearm transfers to be done through a FFL dealer.

01-01-1998 is when it became mandatory for intra-familial handgun transfers to be reported to the CA DOJ BOF and for new residents of CA to report any handguns they import into CA.

ke6guj
05-11-2009, 2:31 AM
Handgun registration is not mandatory.+1.

However, most transfers of handguns today must go through a CA FFL, at which time the handgun is registered to you. But there is no law that prohibits having an otherwise legal handgun that is not registered to you.

45_acp
05-11-2009, 2:47 AM
could someone be asked to prove how they acquired a handgun that is not registered.

EmtGuy
05-11-2009, 3:00 AM
So what happens if your so called buddy from Idaho, gives you a so called p250, and you don't register it, same question as above do you need to prove where it came from, can you register it. The list only means can't sell in ca not can't register correct. You need two parties to register a gun? Can't just show up to a shop and register it regardless of where it came from?

kaboom
05-11-2009, 3:06 AM
I believe that would not only be breaking state laws, but also federal laws in the ATF dept. All interstate guns sales and transfers must be done through an FFL.

Sinixstar
05-11-2009, 3:15 AM
Also - regarding the roster - it's not illegal to buy an off-roster gun. It's illegal for FFL's take possession of them for commercial sale.

They can sell on consignment, and they can process PPT of off-roster guns, but the only way an FFL can take transfer of an off-roster handgun for resale - is if it's for LE only.

So in the case of your buddy from out of state, if you can figure out how to do the PPT inter-state, there's no reason why you couldn't. There may be some funniness there in terms of someone coming from out of state to sell you a gun PPT though.

I can however tell you - that NV does allow part-time residents to purchase guns in NV. So if you have an NV address, and can get an NV ID Card - you can buy guns here.
Not sure how that works with dual residency - but it's possible that if you have residency in both NV and CA - you may be able to bring them back to CA with you, simply by filling out the personal import report.

EmtGuy
05-11-2009, 3:37 AM
I'm guessing your from Nevada :) thanks for the info. A few ways to get it done legaly just gonna take some work and finding the right people.

Quiet
05-11-2009, 4:59 AM
Not sure how that works with dual residency - but it's possible that if you have residency in both NV and CA

Just having an address and ID in another state does not make you a resident of that state.
You have to actually live there, not go there for trips/vacation, in order to be considered a resident.



BATFE Firearms FAQ
(B12) May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.
[27 CFR 478.11]


27 CFR 478.11
State of residence.
The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3. A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days.

Quiet
05-11-2009, 5:11 AM
So what happens if your so called buddy from Idaho, gives you a so called p250, and you don't register it, same question as above do you need to prove where it came from, can you register it. The list only means can't sell in ca not can't register correct. You need two parties to register a gun? Can't just show up to a shop and register it regardless of where it came from?
I believe that would not only be breaking state laws, but also federal laws in the ATF dept. All interstate guns sales and transfers must be done through an FFL.

kaboom is correct.

You and your buddy, both committed Federal felonies.

You violated 922(a)(3) and you buddy violated 922(a)(5).

In order to satisfy CA and Federal laws, the handgun needs to be transfered through a CA FFL dealer.


US Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Section 922
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;

Vin496
05-11-2009, 7:09 AM
So what happens if your so called buddy from Idaho, gives you a so called p250, and you don't register it, same question as above do you need to prove where it came from, can you register it. The list only means can't sell in ca not can't register correct. You need two parties to register a gun? Can't just show up to a shop and register it regardless of where it came from?

EMT,

You have hinted at this "scenario" in a few of your 11 post so far. It's obvious you want a P250, but the problem with this idea, besides breaking California law, you would be breaking Federal Laws, this has been pointed out to you 3 times now.

So please do yourself a favor and stop asking about this "scenario". You have posted a WTB add and been told what your options are to legally purchase one.

In all honesty if your looking for some validation to break both Federal and State law to get it from your friend, it's not going to happen here.

But if you are going to do it(which I do not recommend), it's your choice, just don't keep posting about it.

EmtGuy
05-11-2009, 1:30 PM
Not looking for justification for breaking any laws, just as much info as possible. Posted this scenario twice, both times getting much appreciated constructive feedback as well as different options/oppinions. Sorry to anyone who was offended or saw this as spam or looking for justification to break any laws. All info is much apprciated :)

CHS
05-12-2009, 12:35 AM
Just have your friend who owns the P250 lawfully drive it into the state of California and meet you at an FFL for a PPT.

The dealer will most likely have to do a paper DROS transaction rather than the usual automated one since the out of state seller's ID is not recognized by the DROS system.

This is still legal though.

Librarian
05-12-2009, 1:40 AM
Just have your friend who owns the P250 lawfully drive it into the state of California and meet you at an FFL for a PPT.

The dealer will most likely have to do a paper DROS transaction rather than the usual automated one since the out of state seller's ID is not recognized by the DROS system.

This is still legal though.
We think it's still legal - getting a CA FFL to figure out how to enter non-CA ID info, or accept non-CA ID, is going to be an adventure.

EmtGuy
05-12-2009, 3:33 AM
found one to purchase from an LEO