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dwa
05-10-2009, 7:09 PM
i follow defense news a little as a hobby, recently the army's FCS program was recommended to be reset as it was not on the right track. the your branch also has a very expensive vehicle in development the EFV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeditionary_Fighting_Vehicle
this vehicle doesn't seem like such a great idea to my land bound self. i have a layman's understanding of what happens in an amphibious operation and this vehicle while a possible improvement over the aav. this vehicle seems to be outclassed in the water by landing craft and equally vulnerable after it reaches land with its huge size and aluminum armor. would not an lcac reach the beach faster and more effectively and deposit vehicles better suited to land combat? if the intention is to merely drop off a small amount (platoon size or smaller) of infantry and an lcac is deemed too large or vulnerable for the task would not an efv sized hovercraft or hover ifv type deal be preferred?

Manong0369
05-10-2009, 8:34 PM
IIRC, the use of an AAV/EFV was to get the Marines from ship to shore and continue the fight after the initial beach landing. As the beachhead is secured, the AAV would then be used as an APC. The EFV was intended to have better capabilities in areas such as firepower, mobility and armor. The LCAC, on the other hand, would be used to "ferry" other troops, equipment and personnel after consalidation. IMHO, the lack of armor and mobility of the LCAC is minimal and may be more of a hinderance during the initial beach landing.

UncleSamsMisguidedChild
05-11-2009, 4:23 AM
Having been an AAV crewman and crewchief I can tell you from experience that these new EFV vehicles are BY FAR better than the old AAV's for water operations where getting to the beach and putting infantry on the ground is critical. The old AAV's could only do 8 knots with no swells and were pretty much a sitting target in the water in my mind. Where as the new EFV goes around 25 knots, although its capabilities for troop transport has fallen I believe this is a very much needed improvement for the USMC. Land travel has also changed with much improvement, the AAV could do a max(if you were lucky)40mph and the EFV is somewhere around 60-65. The weapon system is a vast improvement also with a 30mm main gun, although I feel they should use the M2 for a secondary over the 7.62. The AAV has an M2 .50cal and a 40MM grenade launcher that is only good for very light armored vehicles and troops. One thing I do hope is that this new EFV has better armor, the AAV even with its EAAK armor kit was only capable of stopping .50cal or smaller. I cant help but laugh about you thinking an LCAC would be better than an EFV for a beach landing after a story my old Gunny told us about Somalia and an LCAC commander that wouldnt land on the beach cause they were shooting at them.

Desert_Rat
05-11-2009, 8:18 AM
Having been an AAV crewman and crewchief I can tell you from experience that these new EFV vehicles are BY FAR better than the old AAV's for water operations where getting to the beach and putting infantry on the ground is critical. The old AAV's could only do 8 knots with no swells and were pretty much a sitting target in the water in my mind. Where as the new EFV goes around 25 knots, although its capabilities for troop transport has fallen I believe this is a very much needed improvement for the USMC. Land travel has also changed with much improvement, the AAV could do a max(if you were lucky)40mph and the EFV is somewhere around 60-65. The weapon system is a vast improvement also with a 30mm main gun, although I feel they should use the M2 for a secondary over the 7.62. The AAV has an M2 .50cal and a 40MM grenade launcher that is only good for very light armored vehicles and troops. One thing I do hope is that this new EFV has better armor, the AAV even with its EAAK armor kit was only capable of stopping .50cal or smaller. I cant help but laugh about you thinking an LCAC would be better than an EFV for a beach landing after a story my old Gunny told us about Somalia and an LCAC commander that wouldnt land on the beach cause they were shooting at them.

Hey! I was with 3rd AAV too!
Bravo co ,I was in the Motor T platoon though

dwa
05-11-2009, 1:33 PM
Having been an AAV crewman and crewchief I can tell you from experience that these new EFV vehicles are BY FAR better than the old AAV's for water operations where getting to the beach and putting infantry on the ground is critical. The old AAV's could only do 8 knots with no swells and were pretty much a sitting target in the water in my mind. Where as the new EFV goes around 25 knots, although its capabilities for troop transport has fallen I believe this is a very much needed improvement for the USMC. Land travel has also changed with much improvement, the AAV could do a max(if you were lucky)40mph and the EFV is somewhere around 60-65. The weapon system is a vast improvement also with a 30mm main gun, although I feel they should use the M2 for a secondary over the 7.62. The AAV has an M2 .50cal and a 40MM grenade launcher that is only good for very light armored vehicles and troops. One thing I do hope is that this new EFV has better armor, the AAV even with its EAAK armor kit was only capable of stopping .50cal or smaller. I cant help but laugh about you thinking an LCAC would be better than an EFV for a beach landing after a story my old Gunny told us about Somalia and an LCAC commander that wouldnt land on the beach cause they were shooting at them.

what if you took an EFV sized LCAC used kinda as a hover apc as im assuming the EFV is not intended to fight on land but rather deposit marines and leave. in regards to the armor i believe it is aluminium so that may not work out well.

UncleSamsMisguidedChild
05-12-2009, 3:07 AM
The EFV is very much intended for fighting on land, its just not intended for going up against tanks and other various heavy armored vehicles. Which is why we cruise behind the tanks and their BIG guns! Where as an LCAC's purpose is just to get whatever the load is (i.e.)Troops, Supplies, or HMMV's to the beach and return for another load. As for the Aluminum hull, its used for floating purposes being much lighter than steel. I just hope they made some improvements to resist more damage, since the new EFV outweighs the AAV by 10 tons.

To Desert Rat: I was with 'C' Co. 3rd PLT 95-99

Desert_Rat
05-12-2009, 1:13 PM
To Desert Rat: I was with 'C' Co. 3rd PLT 95-99

WOW! I was B co 96-98

My motor T marines with charlie co were lcpl Smith and lcpl Cahill IIRC

UncleSamsMisguidedChild
05-13-2009, 1:24 AM
Names dont sound familiar, Of course we didnt use the motorpool for much besides going to the gas chamber, and the occasional Hummer on field OPS. I know our Armorer's name was Smith. Did you know Gunny Bowers, he was the one who told us that story about Somalia. I really miss being next to the beach around this time of year!!!

Desert_Rat
05-13-2009, 7:21 PM
Names dont sound familiar, Of course we didnt use the motorpool for much besides going to the gas chamber, and the occasional Hummer on field OPS. I know our Armorer's name was Smith. Did you know Gunny Bowers, he was the one who told us that story about Somalia. I really miss being next to the beach around this time of year!!!

Gunny Bowers I think was a dude who got in my *** over messing with some of his marines who were sent to PM the companies vehicles.When I tell people where the ramp and motorpool was,in relation to the beach at Del Mar they can't believe it.I have to show them some pictures of it.
OOOOh yeah the summertime view of the beach and parking lot.There was plenty of unforgettable times had!

UncleSamsMisguidedChild
05-14-2009, 3:13 AM
LOL, yeah most guys I told about the ramp and working next to the beach didnt believe me until I showed them. I believe where we were at was probably one of the best locations on Pendleton....next to the beach and 5 minutes from O'side. I remember going on a few runs out the back gate and down to the pier and back. Thats probably one of the only things I dont miss about being on AD was the 3+ mile runs 3 times a week.

lcpl. huynh
05-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Hey, another Motor-T Marine here! Deployed with 1st BN 2nd MAR out of Lejeune.

Desert_Rat
07-16-2009, 10:14 PM
Hey, another Motor-T Marine here! Deployed with 1st BN 2nd MAR out of Lejeune.

YEP.I was just looking over some old posts,and say yours. I remember LeJeune well. Those jar heads were way too uptight on the east coast.I had a house out on town while @ motorT school way out on Holley Shelter road, Good times were had at that lil place,bunch of boots partying where there were NO Sgts. oh yeah good times:43:

haiedras
07-17-2009, 6:36 PM
Just some additional background information:

The EFV was designed to provide an over the horizon capability for amphibious operations. Not like we've done any amphib ops in a while, but the best analogy is take a Bradley, make it water-borne capable, and you've got a package that goes stupidly fast in the water and once you get on land, you can keep up with the Abrams in overland operations. I agree that the EFV is a darn sight better than old AAV, and the issue with using a landing craft like the LCACs or the LCVs is that they don't do particularly well in hostile/contested landings.

One thing for sure though, the EFV is BIG...makes the AAV feel kinda small in comparison.

Once A Marine
07-17-2009, 9:33 PM
LCACs are also quite a bear to manuever - they are more like helicopters at 3 feet AGL than a ground vehicle. They aren't combat manueverable, needing 500m to stop and having a turn radius of 2km or more under load. They also eat fuel like crazy, are very loud, and have a huge signature when in operation.

J_B
07-17-2009, 11:10 PM
YEP.I was just looking over some old posts,and say yours. I remember LeJeune well. Those jar heads were way too uptight on the east coast.I had a house out on town while @ motorT school way out on Holley Shelter road, Good times were had at that lil place,bunch of boots partying where there were NO Sgts. oh yeah good times:43:

Holy bejeebus....Camp Johnson. I still remember going back there as a Cpl. for a school. One boot got caught wearing a Smokey in the squad bay. He got thrashed...that was some funny stuff.

Desert_Rat
07-19-2009, 7:40 PM
Camp Johnson was BOOT central.haha we picked up a Sgt and he ended up being our class leader so the party ended there,he was a reservist who was transferrind to Active Duty,I think he watched too much Heartbreak Ridge and FMJ.
Had some CPL's in my LVS class. they were from the 3rd shop at LeJeune