PDA

View Full Version : 22 Ciener kit at 100 yards


unusedusername
05-09-2009, 9:20 PM
So I've got a Ciener kit that I got of the parts sales here in my OLL.

I'm using a Rock River 16" upper (link (http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=270)) with the kit. I'm having quite some difficulty with accuracy at 100 yards. I get about 4-5" groups from a benchrest at 100 yards. I was told by someone at the Sunnyvale range today that it might be not accurate at 100 yards due to the barrel having a 1 in 8 twist.

I tried both Winchester white box and some mini-mags in the rifle, both had the same effect.

If I want to run a plinking rifle that is accurate with both .223 and .22lr what should I do? Different ammo? A different barrel?

Arteel
05-09-2009, 10:40 PM
IMO your groups are normal.

DULLYJAY
05-09-2009, 10:51 PM
Thats not bad without glass. Good shooting.

Tillers_Rule
05-09-2009, 11:12 PM
Agreed, those seem like good, normal groups for the setup you've got.

Cal-Irish
05-09-2009, 11:20 PM
I wouldn't change anything, but rather, get happy about shooting 4.5 MOA for dirt cheap.

unusedusername
05-09-2009, 11:20 PM
Ah, hrm. I was somehow thinking I should see better groupings from this setup...

I guess I get to go do more research. Thanks for the info :)

Maybe I'll just keep shooting at 50 yards.

sb_pete
05-10-2009, 12:56 AM
You might get better groups with subsonic match ammo or the Aguila 60gr SSS, but 4-5moa at 100yds is pretty normal afaik for a ceiner kit through a .223 barrel using non match .22lr ammo

Afaik, there are two primary reasons:
1> too much twist, the dedicated .22lr uppers use a std .22lr 1:16 twist.
2> Too much freebore - the ceiner kits use an insert into the .223 chamber meaning there is a bunch of unrifled space that the bullet has to jump through before engaging the rifling. The dedicated .22lr uppers use a .22lr chambered barrel which overcomes this issue.

A ceiner kit is not really intended for benchrest shooting. More for inexpensive practice and running drills. Stick to 50yds and under and this should be less of an issue. If you really want great accuracy with .22lr in an AR, try one of the Spikes dedicated uppers with the Lothar Walther bbl.

hth,
-Pete

buffybuster
05-10-2009, 7:32 AM
You might get better groups with subsonic match ammo or the Aguila 60gr SSS, but 4-5moa at 100yds is pretty normal afaik for a ceiner kit through a .223 barrel using non match .22lr ammo

Afaik, there are two primary reasons:
1> too much twist, the dedicated .22lr uppers use a std .22lr 1:16 twist.
2> Too much freebore - the ceiner kits use an insert into the .223 chamber meaning there is a bunch of unrifled space that the bullet has to jump through before engaging the rifling. The dedicated .22lr uppers use a .22lr chambered barrel which overcomes this issue.
3. Your bore is actually .224" and you are shooting .222" bullets through it. Not conducive to accuracy.

A ceiner kit is not really intended for benchrest shooting. More for inexpensive practice and running drills. Stick to 50yds and under and this should be less of an issue. If you really want great accuracy with .22lr in an AR, try one of the Spikes dedicated uppers with the Lothar Walther bbl.

hth,
-Pete

ADDED another reason.

Dedicated 22lr uppers have .222" bores with 1:16" twist.

hybridatsun350
05-10-2009, 8:43 AM
Doesn't sound too bad. How are your groups at 50 yds?

Arteel
05-10-2009, 10:04 AM
Were you using iron sights?

TZL
05-10-2009, 7:18 PM
hey unusedusername....

I was the guy shooting the mod'd out 10/22 and moved over to the centerfire side that talked to you.

It is b/c you are using a conversion kit and the 1:8 is twisting it way too much, normaly 22's use 1:16 twist, which is what I have on my dedicated 22lr spike upper

There is not way to have a super accruate barrel in both 5.56 and 22lr, just too different of bullets.

1:8 is ideal for 62gr and high 5.56 bullets, so maybe an older m16/ar15 barrel of 1:12 would be a better compromise if you were shooting light grain 5.56 and 22.lr out of the same barrel, but you will never have a tack driver with the two different calibers out of the same barrel, you are going to compromise on one end or the other....unless you get dedicated uppers

BTW, most 22lr's seem to shoot best with either mini-mags or Wolf ammo (best as in for regular production ammo, not match ammo)

So I've got a Ciener kit that I got of the parts sales here in my OLL.

I'm using a Rock River 16" upper (link (http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=270)) with the kit. I'm having quite some difficulty with accuracy at 100 yards. I get about 4-5" groups from a benchrest at 100 yards. I was told by someone at the Sunnyvale range today that it might be not accurate at 100 yards due to the barrel having a 1 in 8 twist.

I tried both Winchester white box and some mini-mags in the rifle, both had the same effect.

If I want to run a plinking rifle that is accurate with both .223 and .22lr what should I do? Different ammo? A different barrel?

sb_pete
05-11-2009, 9:37 PM
ADDED another reason.

Dedicated 22lr uppers have .222" bores with 1:16" twist.

True. Forgot about that one. Thanks :thumbsup:

JTFPEST
05-12-2009, 5:21 PM
PK Firearms has had .22 barrels in stock lately Might want to think about building a upper and just swapping out lowers.... crap tried that and it morphed into a complete weapon.........