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zippo
05-09-2009, 1:17 AM
have anyone own this conversion for Glock yet ??

how is it?? look very cool

http://www.hera-arms.com/gcc.php


zippo

Gryff
05-09-2009, 1:54 AM
Isn't that just all types of illegal without ATF paperwork/tax stamps?

I'm still waiting for the actual Glock Carbine to be released.

:thumbsup:

Sinixstar
05-09-2009, 1:57 AM
Isn't that just all types of illegal without ATF paperwork/tax stamps?

I'm still waiting for the actual Glock Carbine to be released.

:thumbsup:

Yea, I was under the impression that rifles are rifles, pistols are pistols - and that's just how it is. Turning one into the other will get a rather unfriendly knock at the door....

5thstreet@sbcglobal.net
05-09-2009, 2:00 AM
ya adding a buttstock makes it a shoulder fired weapon which makes it a rifle which makes it illeagal because the barrel isnt at least 16" and it probably doesnt meet the over length requirement and it has a pistol grip below the action (correct me if im wrong) so you would have to develop a bullet button to get rid of the detachable mag

hellraiser
05-09-2009, 2:59 PM
ive always wanted somthing like that, just a carbine that works on glock mags.... check these out...
http://www.mechtechsys.com/
but like gryff said "its all kinds of illegal"
kel tec makes a sub 2000 but its a no go here too...
i really wish some one would just make a cali legal "glock" carbine... kinda like the camp rifles...

DarkHorse
05-09-2009, 4:29 PM
ive always wanted somthing like that, just a carbine that works on glock mags.... check these out...
http://www.mechtechsys.com/
but like gryff said "its all kinds of illegal"
kel tec makes a sub 2000 but its a no go here to...
i really wish some one would just make a cali legal "glock" carbine... kinda like the camp riffles...

The Mech Tech systems could actually be legal. They will ship to CA, but understand that a completed weapon may be illegal. The barrel and OAL are long enough, but you would still need a bullet button device to avoid AW status.

This conversion kit is what started the whole NRF idea.

punisheryayarea
05-09-2009, 5:26 PM
No no no just get this http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/sneakpreview.shtml :thumbsup:

aznanimekid
05-09-2009, 5:30 PM
that hera kit looks like the magpul FMG minus the folding part

M. Sage
05-09-2009, 5:32 PM
The Mech Tech systems could actually be legal. They will ship to CA, but understand that a completed weapon may be illegal. The barrel and OAL are long enough, but you would still need a bullet button device to avoid AW status.

This conversion kit is what started the whole NRF idea.

Yes, the Mechtech ones would be legal with some kind of mag lock. But BATFE says that once it's a rifle, it can never be a pistol again.

Honestly, you'd be better with a pistol-cal conversion on an AR, IMO. There's one company that offers a Glock-compatible magwell conversion. Go featureless on the AR and have all kinds of fun.

Ladyfox
05-09-2009, 6:27 PM
You know it's funny I was up at Irvington Arms earlier today and saw what first looked like an M4/AR-15 OLL but after looking closer I was startled to see Glock magazines sticking out. They were pretty swamped when I was in there so I did not get to ask before leaving but if someone can identify what those were I'd be curious to know.

Never seen a Glock-based M4 looked like that and it sure as heck did not look like any of the other carbine conversions I've seen either but I'll be darned if it did not look really nice. ^_^

M. Sage
05-09-2009, 7:01 PM
It's not Glock-based. :p It's just a conversion block in the mag well to allow it to accept Glock mags when you have a pistol-cal upper on the rifle.

But damned if I can remember who makes 'em.

WokMaster1
06-23-2009, 10:16 AM
http://www.lanworldinc.com/Hera.htm

Hera it comes.:D Taking pre orders now. 16" barrel plus maglock. Is it legal to switch your Glock from pistol to carbine & back?

Glock Fan
06-23-2009, 10:38 AM
Man that thing is RAD in so many ways!!

dfletcher
06-23-2009, 11:34 AM
http://www.lanworldinc.com/Hera.htm

Hera it comes.:D Taking pre orders now. 16" barrel plus maglock. Is it legal to switch your Glock from pistol to carbine & back?

A much discussed subject. I have a cheap as hell 1911 "lower" committed to my Mech Tech.

Kelvrick
06-23-2009, 11:44 AM
It's not Glock-based. :p It's just a conversion block in the mag well to allow it to accept Glock mags when you have a pistol-cal upper on the rifle.

But damned if I can remember who makes 'em.

I think you guys are talking about Olympic Arms.

The bad part is I think its only a complete rifle. They don't just sell the lowers.

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=24&Itemid=37&vmcchk=1&Itemid=37

WokMaster1
06-23-2009, 11:49 AM
A much discussed subject. I have a cheap as hell 1911 "lower" committed to my Mech Tech.

Hello! You can't post comments like that w/out pictures. Come on!!!!:D

JeffM
06-23-2009, 11:57 AM
I'd rather have:

D99NHb6B03s

Untamed1972
06-23-2009, 12:27 PM
Damn....that Magpul FMG9 is pretty slick!

(P.S. What's with the Amish beard dude?)

Untamed1972
06-23-2009, 12:28 PM
http://www.lanworldinc.com/Hera.htm

Hera it comes.:D Taking pre orders now. 16" barrel plus maglock. Is it legal to switch your Glock from pistol to carbine & back?

I might just hafta consider goin' glock just to set one of those up! :thumbsup:

P.S. Would having a Glock pistol and that kit....but not having them assembled.....constitute a "constructive possession" issue?

dfletcher
06-23-2009, 2:22 PM
Hello! You can't post comments like that w/out pictures. Come on!!!!:D

Sorry, I can't do computer photos. The polaroids keep dropping off the screen! :(

12GaugeLosAngeles
06-23-2009, 4:20 PM
not legal in cali... technically it's a carbine after.. so yup!

Bloodshot4Sure
06-23-2009, 6:42 PM
got an e-mail from LANworld about it today. they will ship a CA legal version:

"For our California customers we will be producing a 16" barrel for the Glock Pistol which will increase the length to 30" as well as a magazine lock kit."

WokMaster1
06-23-2009, 8:02 PM
:smilielol5:

Sorry, I can't do computer photos. The polaroids keep dropping off the screen! :(

OneNcustdy
06-24-2009, 8:09 AM
Sorry, I can't do computer photos. The polaroids keep dropping off the screen! :(

:kest: I have the same problem. Looks sick, but for me to much of a hassle.

WokMaster1
06-24-2009, 8:28 AM
not legal in cali... technically it's a carbine after.. so yup!

You will be correct if it is as is. But with a 16" barrel plus a maglock, it is GTG.

steve_77
08-03-2009, 7:03 PM
so im confused so this guy isnt legal in ca. even with a longer 16.5" barrel and some sort of mag lock? --- thought someone said that despite these fixes there could be legal problems for other reasons?

stix213
08-04-2009, 11:53 AM
That's a nice looking, illegal in California, SBR there. Too bad we don't live in a free state where you could just pay the money so you could do that.

Mister BLASTEE
08-04-2009, 12:28 PM
I would buy a Glock made "PC9" type carbine in a heartbeat! We can only wish I guess.

SCMA-1
08-04-2009, 12:31 PM
I would buy a Glock made "PC9" type carbine in a heartbeat! We can only wish I guess.

YES! That's what I'm talking about; a standard configured (no need for bullet button and 10rd fixed mag), reasonably priced carbine that takes Glock mags. That's exactly what I'm looking for.

SCMA-1

WeekendWarrior
08-04-2009, 3:38 PM
Those things are stupid. The Magpul one is where its at! Concealable hell yeah! Good luck ever seeing one of these in CA though!

D99NHb6B03s

steve_77
08-05-2009, 10:45 AM
so im confused so this guy isnt legal in ca. even with a longer 16.5" barrel and some sort of mag lock? --- thought someone said that despite these fixes there could be legal problems for other reasons?

was hoping someone could answer the question I asked. I understand that the magpul FMG prototype 'rocks' and all, and that the hera-arms system is not as impressive, im more concerned about legality and such, as im looking for more info, personally considering more of the mech tech systems CCU. vs having to get a 9mm ar upper and use special mags, and find one of the mag blocks. seems like if you had a glock this clock carbine approach would not only be easier but more cost effective, and already have mags... the only thing youd have to make sure of is that the barrel is longer than 16", the OAL is legal, and put in some sort of maglock thing... right?

DarkHorse
08-05-2009, 11:01 AM
was hoping someone could answer the question I asked. I understand that the magpul FMG prototype 'rocks' and all, and that the hera-arms system is not as impressive, im more concerned about legality and such, as im looking for more info, personally considering more of the mech tech systems CCU. vs having to get a 9mm ar upper and use special mags, and find one of the mag blocks. seems like if you had a glock this clock carbine approach would not only be easier but more cost effective, and already have mags... the only thing youd have to make sure of is that the barrel is longer than 16", the OAL is legal, and put in some sort of maglock thing... right?

Regarding legality of a pistol/carbine conversion -

1) Since a pistol grip is a given, you must go "fixed-mag" route, and create some sort of mag-lock device for your Glock frame. That shouldn't be too difficult.
2) Since it's a semi-auto, we must pay attention to AW laws, and ensure a 30" OAL in shortest firing configuration. W/a locked mag, specific features are irrelevant.
3) Barrel length must be 16" or longer to avoid SBR status.
4) In theory, once a rifle, always a rifle (or is it "longgun?"). If you convert a pistol frame into a carbine, and it has a buttstock and is intended to be fired from the shoulder, then it cannot be a pistol again. By removing the carbine conversion, and reinstalling the pistol barrel, you have created a SBR, and will find yourself instantly teleported to a federal pound-me-in-the-O.O-prison.

I think #4 is the "legal problems for other reasons" you were referring to. If you keep it as a carbine, and sell it as a carbine, I don't see a problem.
Also for your consideration, there is supposedly a constructive possession clause for SBR's, meaning if you only have one Glock frame, and use it on a Mech-Tech CCU, simply maintaing possession of the original pistol barrel may get you in trouble. It doesn't matter that you could not use the pistol barrel at the same time as the CCU. If you had other Glocks that used the barrel, no problem.

steve_77
08-05-2009, 5:19 PM
Regarding legality of a pistol/carbine conversion -


4) In theory, once a rifle, always a rifle (or is it "longgun?"). If you convert a pistol frame into a carbine, and it has a buttstock and is intended to be fired from the shoulder, then it cannot be a pistol again. By removing the carbine conversion, and reinstalling the pistol barrel, you have created a SBR, and will find yourself instantly teleported to a federal pound-me-in-the-O.O-prison.

I think #4 is the "legal problems for other reasons" you were referring to. If you keep it as a carbine, and sell it as a carbine, I don't see a problem.
Also for your consideration, there is supposedly a constructive possession clause for SBR's, meaning if you only have one Glock frame, and use it on a Mech-Tech CCU, simply maintaing possession of the original pistol barrel may get you in trouble. It doesn't matter that you could not use the pistol barrel at the same time as the CCU. If you had other Glocks that used the barrel, no problem.

Wow... just never heard of that, so that means that nearly everyone with a TC contender/encore/etc pistol frame has broken the law at some point if they have ever just been in possession of a rifle barrel that could be used on it. i thought if its dros'd as a pistol its can be either a rifle or a pistol depending on the OAL, and barrel length? perhaps i should make this a separate thread, but couldn't it just simply be changed back. Ive read the fed regs on SBR's never seen any other related clauses - is this new?

I mean ive heard the "once a rifle, always a rifle " thing and always took it to be that if you bought a rifle and there was a pistol conversion avail thats a major no-no. As in you buy a tc contender/encore rifle and throw a pistol barrel on it. - thats no good

but if its a registered pistol its a pistol, and like a 10/22 ruger pistol if you bought one or a TC pistol you could use it as a pistol or as a rifle as long as it doesn't violate the overall length requirement, as well as the barrel length requirement at a particular moment in time.

unless im really missing something - i though this issue was cleared in the early 90s in the supreme court ruling.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Center_Arms]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson/Center_Arms_Company]

Thompson/Center Arms and the Supreme Court

In the case of United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Co. (1992), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the company's favor by deciding that the rifle conversion kit that Thompson sold with their pistols did not constitute a short barreled rifle under the National Firearms Act of 1934.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms contended that the mere possession of a pistol, having a barrel less than sixteen inches (406 mm) long, with a shoulder stock and rifle-length (more than sixteen inches) barrel constituted constructive intent to "make" an illegal short-barreled rifle (by combining the pistol's frame, the pistol-length barrel, and the shoulder stock).

This decision clarified the meaning of the term "make" in the National Firearms Act by stating that the pistol actually had to be assembled with a barrel less than 16 inches (410 mm) long with a stock directly attached to it to constitute a short-barrelled rifle under the National Firearms Act, and that the mere possession of components that theoretically could be assembled in an illegal configuration was not in itself a violation, as long as the components could also be assembled into legal configurations.[citation needed]

dfletcher
08-05-2009, 6:06 PM
Wow... just never heard of that, so that means that nearly everyone with a TC contender/encore/etc pistol frame has broken the law at some point if they have ever just been in possession of a rifle barrel that could be used on it. i thought if its dros'd as a pistol its can be either a rifle or a pistol depending on the OAL, and barrel length? perhaps i should make this a separate thread, but couldn't it just simply be changed back. Ive read the fed regs on SBR's never seen any other related clauses - is this new?

I mean ive heard the "once a rifle, always a rifle " thing and always took it to be that if you bought a rifle and there was a pistol conversion avail thats a major no-no. As in you buy a tc contender/encore rifle and throw a pistol barrel on it. - thats no good

but if its a registered pistol its a pistol, and like a 10/22 ruger pistol if you bought one or a TC pistol you could use it as a pistol or as a rifle as long as it doesn't violate the overall length requirement, as well as the barrel length requirement at a particular moment in time.

unless im really missing something - i though this issue was cleared in the early 90s in the supreme court ruling.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Center_Arms]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson/Center_Arms_Company]

Thompson/Center Arms and the Supreme Court

In the case of United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Co. (1992), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the company's favor by deciding that the rifle conversion kit that Thompson sold with their pistols did not constitute a short barreled rifle under the National Firearms Act of 1934.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms contended that the mere possession of a pistol, having a barrel less than sixteen inches (406 mm) long, with a shoulder stock and rifle-length (more than sixteen inches) barrel constituted constructive intent to "make" an illegal short-barreled rifle (by combining the pistol's frame, the pistol-length barrel, and the shoulder stock).

This decision clarified the meaning of the term "make" in the National Firearms Act by stating that the pistol actually had to be assembled with a barrel less than 16 inches (410 mm) long with a stock directly attached to it to constitute a short-barrelled rifle under the National Firearms Act, and that the mere possession of components that theoretically could be assembled in an illegal configuration was not in itself a violation, as long as the components could also be assembled into legal configurations.[citation needed]

The Supreme Court case victory by T/C in 1992 is applied to only those particular few kits sold by T/C at the time, not all T/C firearms. That's the position taken by ATF, very narrow the little snots are being, I think. The letter is floating around here on previous threads. So if you have one of those kits you can mix and match and go from handgun to rifle and back. But only with those few T/C kits - not all T/C Encores or Contenders.

If you DROS as a handgun what left the factory 5 years ago as an Encore rifle frame and slap a 15" barrel on it, you have reconfigured a rifle to a handgun. I'll bet there are alot of Encore "used to be rifle" frames out there wearing 15" barrels and a set of handgun grips, especially in states where private (nonFFL) sales occur.

The same could be done with the Ruger Charger and 10/22 rifle. Take a Charger and remove the 10" bbl, add a 16" bbl and a rifle stock - you're now and forever the owner of a 10/22 rifle.

Take a 10/22 rifle, remove the 16" bbl and slap on a 10" bbl - add a Charger stock and head on down to the gun store. "I'd like to sell my Charger pistol" Except it's not.

I think having a 4473 and/or a DROS that says "handgun" might afford some help as a mitigating circumstance. If you follow the law with paperwork and background and FFL where's the intent?

Clearly, gun manufacturing technology has outpaced the gun laws in this regard.

DarkHorse
08-06-2009, 10:42 AM
Yeah, those specific T/C kits are Ok, but everything else is "suspect" according to BATFE. uber-lame

This is one of those things that is very open to challenge, but we don't need a test case at this moment. We have bigger things to worry about than NFA, IMO.

soundwave
08-06-2009, 12:08 PM
What is the point in many of these carbines that utilize a stock or only slightly longer barrel? I think I would prefer a carbine with a considerably longer barrel to aid in longer shot accuracy and extra fps. Otherwise, it just seems like a Glock with a stock.

roc
08-06-2009, 12:20 PM
"its not a shoulder stock officer, its an extended beavertail!" :p

DarkHorse
08-06-2009, 1:47 PM
What is the point in many of these carbines that utilize a stock or only slightly longer barrel? I think I would prefer a carbine with a considerably longer barrel to aid in longer shot accuracy and extra fps. Otherwise, it just seems like a Glock with a stock.

I think some advantages would be the ability to fire from the shoulder (providing better stability), possible accuracy imporvements (due to a longer sight radius and increased stability), and retaining pistol-like concealability (with those fancy flip-out stocks and junk).

Plus, it'd be an SBR, and liberals & elitist politicians don't want ignorant plebes to have them, making them that much more desirable.:p

Thomas74
08-11-2009, 9:55 PM
I think some advantages would be the ability to fire from the shoulder (providing better stability), possible accuracy imporvements....

Spikes has a video out shooting it FA.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1fdt6uVpe4